Am I judgemental? Am I powerless?

[cbcrna1]

Just a couple comments.  What I have learned from my BPD 36 daughter... . it is always only about her and her emotions.  She needs me to help her feel safe and loved only.  She needs validation, validation and more validation.  For me, I have to see she will self soothe if and when she does not feel the above, she will do the things she does-shop, self injure, men, lash out, etc.  I can only be very careful for myself and for my family because a lot of times I don't see it coming.  She feels it is better and safer for her to keep a distance right now, and although not for the same reasons I will reluctantly agree.  I feel exasperated for the pain, frustration and wasted feeling I feel and maybe you do too.  I respect so much your wisdom, drive and desire for your child.

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[Vivgood]

Love and a relationship are two different things. I think we can love our pwBPD and not expect a relationship - and that is where we parents are caught. Regardless of what we think or want, we have a relationship with our children - even if they are adults and we never see them. That bond never goes away. That relationship may starve for lack of attention, it may shrivel up but it won't ever die. Or so I believe. Relationships need to be nurtured, if they are taken for granted, they become unhealthy. If we ignore them, we are the lesser for it. Nonetheless to manage a relationship with a child (adult child) with BPD requires strength from us that probably does not come naturally to us. So, we have to change ourselves and gain that internal strength to be able to open ourselves to the universe (or God) and be strong in the face of such constant pain and hurt.

GREAT thoughts Viv!

Thank you for the thoughts, too, concerning "judgmental" and "judging". This clarifies for me some ideas about MBTI that have irked me for years. In my FOO, the label "judgmental" is one of the worst that can be used, and since I am a "J", it has always been very effective for my FOO to use the word to invoke shame/guilt/hurt. Wheels within wheels... .

I love 3 people unconditionally. No matter what they do, I will still love them, even if I never have contact with them again. It feels SO GOOD to know that, and embrace that. DD is one of them, for which I am eternally grateful! It makes things much easier. When you can get to that place, much falls into place naturally.


vivgood

[Vivgood]

many of you can raise a topic with your children without a negative response.

Can you NOT raise a topic? Rather, for now, allow her 100% control of conversations and interactions? I'm fortunate in that my DD has always been BPD-lite, but there have been intervals where I've given over control to her, and this has been my strategy, as well, with her biodad (not BPD), as I've tried to facilitate a positive "relationship" with him. Its... . different. but I like you am very cerebral, so stepping back and observing mindfully (the sociological anthropologist in the field ) is something that I can be comfortable with. Its ever so Zen .


vivgood

[vivekananda]

As always you are all helpful. This is how my muddled thoughts are heading now:

I think my problem has been my 'ego'. I have been thinking about me.

• With dd I wanted to raise the infrequencies of our contacts (3 times in 7 mths) I don't believe it is possible to build a relationship with infrequent, uncertain contact. I assumed that dd wanted to build a relationship.



• I am not a 'superficial' chatter, it makes me uncomfortable to skirt around the elephants in the room



• I want dd to get better.

Yes, I am powerless in this relationship. Dd sees it as a power relationship between us one that she has to protect herself from me. If I am to see her and to keep the door open, I have to accept this is her reality. It takes two for a power relationship to exist. So, while I can accept that is her reality, it still doesn't have to be mine. That means I have to stand stronger in who I am - meet my own emotional needs. I will refrain from trying to make contact with her for the time being at least. I cannot carry that burden, I need to get stronger before I try that again.

My concerns about being judgemental are relevant and I can continue to work on this. Where this was a key concern of dd regarding me, where she thought I was just too judgemental, she still responds to me according to a model that she has created in her head. I am no more judgemental than the next person, but now that I know what it means better... . I don't have to be as bad as the next person, I can be better! This will continue to be something I will work on.

The hard thing is to know what there is to be hopeful about. I was hopeful that I could build a better relationship with dd. I think I need to put that hope in my back pocket. I am always hopeful that our relationship can improve, I think I need to put that in my back pocket also. While these things are possible, I don't think I can hold them closely to my heart, it hurts too much and is what causes me confusion.

If I don't initiate contact, I doubt dd will. Her practice is to do so only when she needs something from us - usually money. Since we have put good boundaries in place in that regard, the chances of contact are more than low.

In the meantime, I can pass the baton to dh and see if he can do any better.

Maybe it is MY NEED TO BE NEEDED.

Maybe that is a way to see it. I know that I need to be stronger within myself. I need to recoup my strength to rededicate myself to my own internal strength, to rededicate myself to my truth, to rededicate myself to align my values and how I can best achieve my achievable goals, using the tools I learn here and elsewhere. hmmm.

Vivek    

vivgood: what's MBTI?

[pessim-optimist]

Re being judgemental: ... . It is about being critical in an unhelpful way... . it is a default position, a way of separating oneself from behaviours/people that one does not 'approve of'. Implicit in this is I think a power relationship. It means labelling the other, making them lesser, perhaps even stereotyping them so the whole person is not seen.

Good thinking Vivek  - the separating from who/what we do not approve of; and putting ourselves higher. Those attitude 'movements' prevent the compassionate 'alongside'. (And by separating I do not mean boundaries for protection, rather a distancing attitude to make ourselves feel superior)

I am not sure that I understand the power statements in that post, though. An attitude of superiority does not give anyone power - it might give the illusion of power in that that person is "talking down" to the other. As long as the other does not take the bait (by accepting the implication, or by getting defensive), there is no power being gained or lost... .

I think to deal with that, we need two things: 1. humility 2. the strength of self-confidence

[Vivgood]

MBTI= Meyers-Briggs Type Inventory

a way of thinking about personality and psychology that I have found enormously helpful. characterizes traits and preferences in a way that makes no value-judgment (theres that word again!). Wiki does a good background.

vivgood

[vivekananda]

I am not sure that I understand the power statements in that post, though. An attitude of superiority does not give anyone power - it might give the illusion of power in that that person is "talking down" to the other.

I think I meant that if you act superior, you think you are superior and that therefore means someone is inferior: hence the power relationship on behalf of the superior thinking person. A power struggle occurs when two think they are (both of them) superior. A person who thinks they are superior expects the other to submit to their superiority. There are occasions when a person can have superior knowledge, experience or whatever in a given situation, this is different though, that is an occasion relevant situation and doesn't reflect an attitude necessarily - when two equals exchange ideas, for example.

To go on a tangent somewhat, I remember learning that there are different forms of power, a common form of power is authority. I can know a bit about BPD and be an authority compared to the average person, that means that my knowledge and experience is greater than perhaps the person sitting next to me on the bus. If we started chatting about BPD, my knowledge and experience is probably superior to hers. But that doesn't mean that I am superior, or think I am superior to her. An attitude of superiority because, for example, I know more than you about everything important in life, is different. Dd should be the one who knows best about herself, of course... . therein lies her sense of powerfulness in her relationship with me. I want her in my life but I know nothing - I am inferior.

I think that to think one is superior is a form of defense mechanism. Eg I am not confident in who I am but I will be superior and act powerfully and others will think I am better than I actually am and will defer to me.

Make sense pessio?

MBTI= Meyers-Briggs Type Inventory

yep, I know... . it's good but I found it too easy to be labelled and defined when I was looking for answers, so turned my back on it. Maybe I need to reread and do it again... .  

[FaithfulHope]

Dear Vivek anada,  I am brand new to this group.  I hope I am doing this reply properly.   I have spent yesterday and this morning reading reading reading this site.   This morning while reading this section of the site... . Supporting a Son/Daughter with BPD... . just hit me like a ton of bricks.   I haven't cried this hard in years.  I have a DD who is 21 and was diagnosed with BPD at 17.   I have been searching for a child like mine since she was 8 years old.   This morning I have finally found what I have been looking for.   I have been crying all morning looking at your stories.   I have been living the same life.   I have been dealing with the same issues.   I have so many questions to ask this group but I wanted to comment on this thread.   

I am in the same boat that my daughter is very sensitive to everything I say.  She has a much easier time talking to my husband than with me.  I think it's because I see right through her. I think I know her better than anyone.   I struggle with being judgmental also.   She always accuses me of being judgmental but I feel its more of being a concerned mom.  I have the hardest time talking to her.   I want to try and help her make good choices but most of the time she either tells me what I want to hear or is saying things to manipulate me.   Like all moms I am programmed to protect her.   But she makes very bad choices that could harm her.   So what she sees as judging is me trying to sway her to being safe.   

But I totally understand your struggle in trying to talk to her.   My daughter is, and always has been, a compulsive liar.    Not sure if others have dealt with that here.  But that just makes it so much worse.  I think my daughter gets frustrated with me because I am usually the one who can best see through her lies.   

I just try to keep it light and superficial.  I am so glad to have found this site.   I no longer feel alone.  Thank you.

[vivekananda]

Hi TerryJo,

I am sorry it is like this for you and I am glad you have found us. There is so much we can learn here about how to help our daughters and how to change ourselves.

Your dd is 21and is making bad choices. 21 is an important age, her brain is still very pliable.

This is what I understand, ok? From about 15 to 25, the brain of young adults are going through a culling/reinforcing stage. The parts of the brain that have frequently used neural pathways are reinforced, those pathways that are infrequently used are culled.

BPD can be described as a malfunction within the brain where the neural pathways between the emotional part of the brain and the logic part of the brain, are not strong. That's why when emotions are high, pwBPD stop thinking and react emotionally.

Our task as parents is really important to validate our children, to change how we have communicated with our 'children' to a validating format. I am so glad you are here and can begin to make the changes to yourself that is so helpful to us personally and to our children also. I cannot reinforce enough how important this is. By modelling this behaviour not only can we build a better relationship with our child, we can help them begin to understand themselves (but we cannot force change on them at all!).

You know the serenity prayer? Give me strength to change the things that I can, the wisdom to accept what I can't and the grace to know the difference between the two.

There is only one thing we can change: ourselves.

sending you Cheers,

Vivek      

ps the changes we expect our adult/children to make are the sort of changes we need to make. That we find it hard and challenging is an indication of how hard it would be for our 'children'. But we can do it and there is hope that our 'children' can too.

[pessim-optimist]

 

Welcome TerryJo!

Glad you have found us! There are lots of people here with similar stories, so it's a good community of people who understand what you are going through; and most importantly - all of us are in the process of learning, to become more effective with our pwBPD. So, you will find good discussions, and resources.

I think that to think one is superior is a form of defense mechanism. Eg I am not confident in who I am but I will be superior and act powerfully and others will think I am better than I actually am and will defer to me.

Vivek , it does make sense... . I think the trick for us is to find a way to help them feel that we're on their side and make them feel less threatened and bring their guard down a bit.

[FaithfulHope]

Vivek  and Pessim-optimist,  thank you both for the warm welcome and insight.  This is just what I have been looking for.  I  have been working for years and years and years trying to save my DD from herself.   And yes, I have tried my best to control the situations so she isn't harmed or makes choices that will haunt her for life.  However, at 21 she clearly is at a point where I need to focus my energy on our relationship... . on listening to her and validating her, rather than listing the logical things she should be doing to improve her life which she never follows.    I definitely have work to do on our relationship.  My lack of knowledge for so many years of what is actually the cause of her behavior has caused me to build alot of bitterness.  Her behavior and lies made me feel that she was purposely disrespecting our family.   But that is because that is something I (who does not have BPD) would never do.  I now know she doesn't think about things the way I do.  I also now have finally, after many years and many books, let go of the fear that I caused this in her somehow.  I now understand it and know that her brain was formed this way and it was nothing her dad and I did wrong along the way.  I used to worry, 'did I not hug her enough?'.  She has 2 younger brothers, 'did I not give her enough attention  after they were born?'   But I know now that I love her as much as I love them and I parented her the same.  Mothers and their guilt, huh?   I do have questions though.   Questions about levels of functioning in our BPD's and how we can advocate for them.   I will ask those in separate posts.   i love the sharing on this site.  Thank you all.

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders