we really cant help them and we need to accept it.

[VIDEO: "What is parental alienation?"]

I was married a my ex BPD wife for 15 years.  I dedicated myself to bringing her through it.  I failed.  It was   not because of lack of effort, planning, or even strategy.  I failed because I took on something I never should have taken on.   Recently I just broke off my first post marital relationship.  This girl also had problems though I doubt she is BPD.   However in dating her for 7 months she never admitting to being wrong or ever saying I am sorry.  Neither did my ex wife.  Now all of us have problems but we admit them correct them and move forward.  BPD s dont do this they are never wrong they dont admit mistakes or say Im sorry.  If one can not admit to there mistakes they cant correct them and we cant do it for them.  We have to accept this.  Some people just dont want to be hepled.

[SWLSR]

I was married a my ex BPD wife for 15 years.  I dedicated myself to bringing her through it.  I failed.  It was   not because of lack of effort, planning, or even strategy.  I failed because I took on something I never should have taken on.   Recently I just broke off my first post marital relationship.  This girl also had problems though I doubt she is BPD.   However in dating her for 7 months she never admitting to being wrong or ever saying I am sorry.  Neither did my ex wife.  Now all of us have problems but we admit them correct them and move forward.  BPD s dont do this they are never wrong they dont admit mistakes or say Im sorry.  If one can not admit to there mistakes they cant correct them and we cant do it for them.  We have to accept this.  Some people just dont want to be hepled.

[recoil]

You cannot fail when the task isn't possible.

On a side note, I found this web site after searching the internet for "can't be wrong" and "can't say sorry". 

[SWLSR]

Recoil

It is a mistake we try to do often

[thisyoungdad]

Thanks. This is a painful lesson I have learned in the past few months and am in some ways still learning. I see my soon to be ex really sabotaging her life and it is painful to watch. She is sabotaging her relationship with our 3 year old already. Yet she thinks she is the healthy one, even calling me BPD recently. She is in a profession where asking for help for something like this is essentially the end of the career she worked so hard to get, in her mind, although not true necessarily but to her it is. It is sad that she feels such tremendous pressure not to get help when she is on some level aware she has a problem, and she told me she is worried she has a problem she can not see, about 4 months ago. So I can not help her because she can not or will not help herself. If she wanted help, I would by all means do what is healthy to support her if possible. I liken it to when my dog just refuses to get out of my truck, he is so big I can not physically get him out. He knows he needs to, he is very smart and extremely well trained but he just doesn't want to sometimes and he knows I can not make him. My ex could be described similarly, as a medical professional she knows all about the disorder and knows how and where to get help, and perhaps an tiny idea she needs it, yet she will have to get help when (and I do pray she will) is ready to do so. In the meantime I get to practice the serenity prayer A LOT.

[Lucky Jim]

Hey SWLSR, Like you, I was married to my BPDexW for 16 years (separated the last 2.5).  For a long time, I thought I could "figure out" BPD, particularly after I learned about the specifics of the disorder.  I considered myself emotionally strong enough to carry us through the rough patches, and felt that I owed it to our two children to try everything that I could to salvage the relationship.  Yet I failed, too, and discovered that BPD was way bigger and more complex than I could ever have imagined.  No, we really can't help them, as hard as we try, because on some fundamental level they don't want help, and it does no one any good to persist in a fruitless endeavor.  I ended up exhausted and nearly destroyed by the toll BPD took on me emotionally, physically and financially. So I agree with you, SWLSR, we do need to accept that there is only so much we can do, and then it's time to move on in a different direction.  Lucky Jim

[ObiRedKenobi]

I cleaned carpets years ago and we had a saying. "It was a good job on something that shouldn't have been done to start with". Basically that just means that we did the best we could but if the carpet had wear or anything irreversable we could clean it up make it look a bit better but in the end worn out carpet is worn out carpet. I believe that is applicable here.

[SWLSR]

Red kin

I like your analogy

[tailspin]

I agree with this statement. 

Somehow in my mind I equated helping him with helping myself; I felt if I could save him then I, too, would be saved.

It's a faulty belief I've been working on; the re-wiring has taken some time.  I now see how wiring got crossed in my childhood which prevented me from realizing I was even worth the effort.  I was saving myself by proxy.

Acceptance is a tougher nut to crack because it forces us to look within and also accept the fact that we need and deserve to be healed ourselves.

tailspin

[Lucky Jim]

Well said, tailspin and ObiRed!

Lucky Jim

[Validation78]

Hi SWLSR!

Kudos to you for being observant and objective about traits in your relationship (post pwBPD)

that are not up to your standards and values. Accepting behaviors that we don't approve of leads to boundary busting, and we all know where that leads, and yes, it can happen in relationships with nons too!

I too am finding myself more keenly aware of behaviors in others that make me uncomfortable, and tread on my value system!

Best Wishes,

Val78

[Sparky2Blame?]

Topic says it all... . agree 100%!

Accepting that I couldn't help was the 1st step I took in actively moving forward.  It was almost like a weight was lifted when I resigned to that conclusion.

[Octoberfest]

I agree with you guys that they are beyond our help... . but does that not make anyone else sad?

My BPDex is without a doubt damaged goods, worn out carpet, been with FAR too many guys for being 22, used up, etc.

But it hurts a lot to say that... . I still feel like I am turning my back on someone I once really cared for.  How do you guys manage that guilt? Or do you have it at all?

I think I struggled for so long to let her go and I recycled so many times because of my capability for empathy... . Couple that with a manipulator and someone who isn't ashamed to take advantage of that, and I got steam rolled.

[cska]

This is a great thread. The desire to help my ex kept me in the relationship for a long time. I discovered that I have pretty low self esteem, so when I felt like I  was helping her, I felt useful, and that validated me. I felt like a knight in shining armor.

Octoberfest, yes I did feel guilty for not continuing to "carry" my ex. But it got so bad that I had no choice. As much as I tried, she was getting worse and worse. Towards the end, every time we were together she would attempt (or pretend to attempt) suicide, and I just couldn't deal with suicide threats/attempts every day.

Actually the more I tried to help her, the worse she became, i.e. the harder I tried to help her, the more I triggered her. SWLSR is right, we can't help them, and in fact we could be making it worse by inadvertently enabling and triggering them.

[tailspin]

But it hurts a lot to say that... . I still feel like I am turning my back on someone I once really cared for.  How do you guys manage that guilt? Or do you have it at all?

Octoberfest ~ I had this guilt until Clearmind pointed out this simple fact to me:  he will be just fine without you.  She helped me to understand how those suffering are also survivors.  It is very sad, I agree  

It's your turn now... . and you deserve the attention.

tailspin

[Octoberfest]

But it hurts a lot to say that... . I still feel like I am turning my back on someone I once really cared for.  How do you guys manage that guilt? Or do you have it at all?

Octoberfest ~ I had this guilt until Clearmind pointed out this simple fact to me:  he will be just fine without you.  She helped me to understand how those suffering are also survivors.  It is very sad, I agree   

It's your turn now... . and you deserve the attention.

tailspin

I guess "just fine" is a matter of perspective.  My BPDex has been living a train wreck of a life and is on track to do the same thing for the rest of her days.  That is the sad thing for me I guess.

This is a great thread. The desire to help my ex kept me in the relationship for a long time. I discovered that I have pretty low self esteem, so when I felt like I  was helping her, I felt useful, and that validated me. I felt like a knight in shining armor.

Octoberfest, yes I did feel guilty for not continuing to "carry" my ex. But it got so bad that I had no choice. As much as I tried, she was getting worse and worse. Towards the end, every time we were together she would attempt (or pretend to attempt) suicide, and I just couldn't deal with suicide threats/attempts every day.

Actually the more I tried to help her, the worse she became, i.e. the harder I tried to help her, the more I triggered her. SWLSR is right, we can't help them, and in fact we could be making it worse by inadvertently enabling and triggering them.

I really identify with what you said about self esteem and feeling worthwhile because you were helping someone else... . god its bizarre even thinking about someone still who hurt you so badly and treated you so poorly.  That bhit took all of my loyalty, honor, faithfullness, and integrity that I gave her and put on a sweet face and then behind my back the ENTIRE time was doing the exact opposite of all of it and cheating on me and lying to me.  The betrayal... . I struggle with just being the bigger person and forgetting it all

[ScotisGone74]

As far as the guilt, I was riddled with it when the exBPD moved someone in under my nose then got married to him, I was actually soo caught up in her whole thing I believed it was my fault for about a second.  But once I had the opportunity to detach and reflect upon the relationship without the love goggles on I could see that the majority of Everything she told me was a total lie.  Going on 9 months of NC now and the whole warped scenario has become much clearer for me to see.  At this point I have no guilt about trying to help her or detaching and going NC, it was her decision to do what she did, no matter what I said or did would have overcome her illness.   I think the best way to help them in the long run, if they refuse to take any responsibility, to continue on their path of lies, and refuse any professional help, is to go NC.   It allows them to choose to continue on their current path or face the reality that they really need help. 

[cska]

See in my case, my ex knew that she was ill. She was on a lot of meds and she was seeing a therapist. That gave me hope that she would get better, but her demands got worse and worse, and she became so cruel and so suicidal that I just could not recognize the girl that I met... . She was a complete different person. I'm sure she is good on the inside, and I wish her only the best, but she treated me so poorly. And every week it would get worse and worse.

Also, I think she started to rely too heavily on the meds, It seemed to like she started to use them as a quick fix and stopped focusing on improving her condition, even though she ws seeing a T.

[SWLSR]

I am glad u all.have posted.  scotis they r really good at guilting us.  Validation thanks for the encouragement we will all get through this

[Clearmind]

We have to accept this.  Some people just dont want to be hepled.

Trained therapist go through struggles treating Borderlines - there is somthing innate in us, learnt in fact from childhood that ever thought we had a hope in fixing our partners.

Do you really want to be in a relatioship where you have to fix someone?

[Iamdizzy]

Clear mind! The last sentence. Absolutely not! No relationship should ever be about fixing! A lesson I've learned!

[SWLSR]

Clear mind

The fact that we tried it is why we are here.

[ScotisGone74]

What he said (SWLSR)

In addition in my case I just didn't know honestly that these type of people even existed.  I've had several life experiences over the years, but not one that is even somewhat remotely like dealing with the exBPD person.  There is an old saying somewhere, that 'every good lie contains a little bit of truth', and I think that BPD's use exactly that along with using our own good hearted nature against us, trusting that they know we'll do the right thing, no matter what they do or inflict upon us.  It takes a long time to actually determine what we are trying to help them with exactly, when in fact the goalpost is constantly being moved. 

[eniale]

They appeal to our sense of compassion.  We must remember our lives are the result of our choices, our decisions.  So are there's.  I believe the longer the condition has gone on, the less likely the chance of them getting well.  So, think long and hard if you want a relationship in which you do all the giving and it still isn't enough, will never be enough.  Not a healthy life for anyone.  And remember, there is something between hope and despair, and that is courage.  It takes courage to accept that you cannot fix them.  It hurts to accept this, and only the courageous can face it.

[Bananas]

What he said (SWLSR)

In addition in my case I just didn't know honestly that these type of people even existed. 

YES!  I didn't figure it out until it was over.  I was recycled once and didn't even know it.

And remember, there is something between hope and despair, and that is courage.  It takes courage to accept that you cannot fix them.  It hurts to accept this, and only the courageous can face it.

eniale i love this.  I am a fixer, I have been my whole life. I need to remember this. 

[whirlwind]

I agree that you cannot help some who does not want to be helped.  However, in my experience, my ex apologized all the time.  This did not change any of his actions.  He would lie about things and act as if the lies were absolutely true.  Once a lie was revealed he would break down.  He would apologize profusely, tell more lies to try to cover up, and make promises that he would break.  Thus the fights would shift to being about his problems, totally diverting from how he had hurt me by his actions.  As time went on, the apologies turned into scathing attacks and the behavior became worse.  But even in the end, he would still periodically flip into an apologetic mode for moments. I'm not assuming that any of the apologies were sincere, but the words were there.

[Clearmind]

How many apologies does it take to realize the apologies are empty promises whirlwind and maybe its time to move on from this person? This is where we need to be accountable for our decision to stay given who they show themselves to be. We don't take notice for some good reasons.

[whirlwind]

Clearmind, I agree with you.  I am just pointing out that it is not always as simple as whether or not you hear apologies or admissions of fault.  Recognizing something wrong is not the same as taking responsibility for it. 

[SWLSR]

Whirlwind

I am not implying that an apology is the cure all only that it is the first step.  If you cant even do that therenis no hope.

[cska]

My ex doesn't apologize much, but when she does, its like she is casting a spell on me. I succumb to apologies very quickly, bc I believe that this time, her apology is genuine, and she will attempt to change. Its dumb I know, but I can't help believing it every time she apologizes.

Right now I'm in NC, and I'm so happy. Its great, I feel free A day ago she has told me that she misses me, and loves me, but I know that these are empty words. But I know that if she stars e-mailing me apologies, its gonna be hard for me not to succumb.