still not clear if this is ok behavior--maybe its me?

[Our abuse recovery guide]

My parents are charming people. Uneducated but sweet, they would give their shirts off their backs to someone in need. But then they would expect absolute loyalty from that person. They have never really understood me but as long as we are getting together to eat chinese and watch TV we always got along swimmingly. Something happened in my life and I mistakenly got my parents involved. Then when everything was righted they became VERY upset at me and lashed out.

I have not spoken to my parents since March and have not contacted them by letter since April (after sending three different letters all of which were read by them but then returned to me.) I moved across the country, I am a new mom.  All in all, I am really happy. But now I have a lot of time to think and try to understand them so I am asking for feedback on what is ok behavior and what isn't ok.

For instance, is it ok for my mother to tell me:

-if I "want to be 35 and make my own decisions, [she] wants nothing to do with me?" Then when I ask her how she could say such a thing, have her deny ever saying it.

-When I asked her if she loved me she said she was too busy "protecting me" to love me.

-that she's been "uncomfortable" with me since I "was a snob since age 11" and "I embarrassed" her with my "swishing around"

And the way she acts towards me sometimes:

-laughing at me when I hurt myself as a child, accusing me of making up sunburns by staining my skin with Mercurochrome (when I was 9), pushing me off of her when I tried to hug her (i was 5), cornering me in a room full of people to whisper in my ear something completely off-topic (in this case it regarded baptizing my baby). It always made me feel bullied--does that make sense?

Is it ok for my dad to:

-call me a bhit

-always change the reason why he is mad at me

-recommend i come over to their house "to pretend" like everything is ok and if I don't then "don't bother giving them [my] new address or number". Yes, he took the time to write that to me in a letter.

All of my life he made me his confidante, talked to me about how nasty my mom is/was, told me he loved me more than he loved her (which used to make my skin crawl but also made me feel loved at the same time), he used to never knock coming into my room, i caught him looking at me naked through my cracked door, he always wanted me to move next door to them in the house they owned and he always supported my ideas but when one wouldn't pan out he would always say he told me so even when he didn't.

And now i hear from my cousin, my mother refers to me as "her highness" or "the queen". I know she is talking about me because my aunt and uncle just unfriended me from Facebook. My father is really depressed. He won't get out of bed and I am certain he truly feels despair. He won't see me, my daughter or my dog ever again and he is so sad.

I guess I'm having a really hard time not accepting the blame for how he feels even though I did really try my hardest to make everything ok. I am having a hard time with the fact that it feels like my whole family hates me now even though all I tried to do was stand up for myself and say that any decision I needed to make for me and my daughter's life was mine to make. They had no right to attack me for it.

IS this FOG or guilt from being NC? And if its guilt from being NC has anyone tried limited NC after being completely NC? I just always knew I had a not great relationship with my parents but it was passable. They aren't the best people in the world but they aren't the worst. Maybe I'm just not certain what happened. Now I am across the country, no family, no friends (nearby). I'm happy but I'm also adrift. Can I make it right with them? Should I? ugh.     

[Irejectthedrama]

My parents are charming people. Uneducated but sweet, they would give their shirts off their backs to someone in need. But then they would expect absolute loyalty from that person. They have never really understood me but as long as we are getting together to eat chinese and watch TV we always got along swimmingly. Something happened in my life and I mistakenly got my parents involved. Then when everything was righted they became VERY upset at me and lashed out.

I have not spoken to my parents since March and have not contacted them by letter since April (after sending three different letters all of which were read by them but then returned to me.) I moved across the country, I am a new mom.  All in all, I am really happy. But now I have a lot of time to think and try to understand them so I am asking for feedback on what is ok behavior and what isn't ok.

For instance, is it ok for my mother to tell me:

-if I "want to be 35 and make my own decisions, [she] wants nothing to do with me?" Then when I ask her how she could say such a thing, have her deny ever saying it.

-When I asked her if she loved me she said she was too busy "protecting me" to love me.

-that she's been "uncomfortable" with me since I "was a snob since age 11" and "I embarrassed" her with my "swishing around"

And the way she acts towards me sometimes:

-laughing at me when I hurt myself as a child, accusing me of making up sunburns by staining my skin with Mercurochrome (when I was 9), pushing me off of her when I tried to hug her (i was 5), cornering me in a room full of people to whisper in my ear something completely off-topic (in this case it regarded baptizing my baby). It always made me feel bullied--does that make sense?

Is it ok for my dad to:

-call me a bhit

-always change the reason why he is mad at me

-recommend i come over to their house "to pretend" like everything is ok and if I don't then "don't bother giving them [my] new address or number". Yes, he took the time to write that to me in a letter.

All of my life he made me his confidante, talked to me about how nasty my mom is/was, told me he loved me more than he loved her (which used to make my skin crawl but also made me feel loved at the same time), he used to never knock coming into my room, i caught him looking at me naked through my cracked door, he always wanted me to move next door to them in the house they owned and he always supported my ideas but when one wouldn't pan out he would always say he told me so even when he didn't.

And now i hear from my cousin, my mother refers to me as "her highness" or "the queen". I know she is talking about me because my aunt and uncle just unfriended me from Facebook. My father is really depressed. He won't get out of bed and I am certain he truly feels despair. He won't see me, my daughter or my dog ever again and he is so sad.

I guess I'm having a really hard time not accepting the blame for how he feels even though I did really try my hardest to make everything ok. I am having a hard time with the fact that it feels like my whole family hates me now even though all I tried to do was stand up for myself and say that any decision I needed to make for me and my daughter's life was mine to make. They had no right to attack me for it.

IS this FOG or guilt from being NC? And if its guilt from being NC has anyone tried limited NC after being completely NC? I just always knew I had a not great relationship with my parents but it was passable. They aren't the best people in the world but they aren't the worst. Maybe I'm just not certain what happened. Now I am across the country, no family, no friends (nearby). I'm happy but I'm also adrift. Can I make it right with them? Should I? ugh.     

[Kwamina]

Hi Irejectthedrama,

For instance, is it ok for my mother to tell me:

-if I "want to be 35 and make my own decisions, [she] wants nothing to do with me?" Then when I ask her how she could say such a thing, have her deny ever saying it.

-When I asked her if she loved me she said she was too busy "protecting me" to love me.

-that she's been "uncomfortable" with me since I "was a snob since age 11" and "I embarrassed" her with my "swishing around"

I would say that the things your mother said are most definitely not ok at all. Like many BPD parents it sounds like she sees you as her possession or even as a part of her so she tries to stop all your initiatives towards independence. My uBPD mother was very controlling and never wanted me to grow or do the things I wanted to do, everything was always about her. Your mother said she was too busy ‘protecting you’, but in reality you needed to be protected from her.

And the way she acts towards me sometimes:

-laughing at me when I hurt myself as a child, accusing me of making up sunburns by staining my skin with Mercurochrome (when I was 9), pushing me off of her when I tried to hug her (i was 5), cornering me in a room full of people to whisper in my ear something completely off-topic (in this case it regarded baptizing my baby). It always made me feel bullied--does that make sense?

I can really relate to your feelings of being bullied. My uBPD mom was a real bully too and she seemed to enjoy hurting me and seeing me in pain. This sadistic nature is something I still find very disturbing. That’s why I don’t share any important information with her anymore because I know she’ll always try to ruin things for me. I’ve learned to keep my distance.

Is it ok for my dad to:

-call me a bhit

-always change the reason why he is mad at me

-recommend i come over to their house "to pretend" like everything is ok and if I don't then "don't bother giving them [my] new address or number". Yes, he took the time to write that to me in a letter.

In my opinion these things your dad said aren’t ok either. It sounds like your dad has serious issues. After misbehaving my mother often acted as if nothing had happened and wanted me to do so to. This sometimes made me doubt my own perceptions of reality and other times just made me really mad yet I felt powerless to do anything.

All of my life he made me his confidante, talked to me about how nasty my mom is/was, told me he loved me more than he loved her (which used to make my skin crawl but also made me feel loved at the same time)

This sounds like emotional incest. It seems like in certain ways he treated you more like a surrogate partner than as his daughter. My mother did this to me too and I must say that this behavior of her really messed me up. It never felt right but she always acted as if it was normal and this again made me doubt my own perceptions of reality. I now fully realize just how wrong her behavior was though.

, he used to never knock coming into my room, i caught him looking at me naked through my cracked door

This is a huge red flag. I’m very sorry for you that you had to experience this. As children we need to feel safe at home but this kind of behavior destroys all sense of security. Have you ever confronted your dad about this and if so, how did he react? My guess is he probably denied everything or gave his own twisted version of what happened.

I understand why you worry about your dad and might even miss your parents. I’m still in contact with my uBPD mother but I’m fully aware that she’s a very dangerous person. The only reason things are different now is that I’m older, don’t live with her anymore and have learned a lot of new ways to deal with her. She hasn’t changed at all though. I see why you might feel uncertain about what happened, that’s what BPD parents do to us. The things you describe about how they treated you are very hurtful and disturbing though. Your own wellbeing is most important and sometimes complete NC is the best thing to do. Controlled contact is also an option but only if you feel ready for it. It doesn’t sound like your parents have changed at all so if you would decide to contact them again, my advice would be to prepare yourself mentally and emotionally for any drama that might unfold. It will be very important to have clear boundaries with them and you gotta be ready to enforce them whenever your parents step out of line. Good luck whatever you decide to do and take care  

[Sitara]

I can relate with so much of your story, and you do deserved to be respected.

Uneducated but sweet, they would give their shirts off their backs to someone in need. But then they would expect absolute loyalty from that person.

Same here, which is frustrating because when they seem nice to outsiders, they don't believe you and adds to the feeling like you really are the problem.

Then when I ask her how she could say such a thing, have her deny ever saying it.

Mine denies saying hurtful things.  She also says I said things I would never say in a million years.  Before I knew better, I mistakenly apologized for the thing I didn't really say in hopes she would concede and apologize for the thing she actually said.  She still absolutely refused.  And I was left feeling even more hurt and confused because I'd taken claim for something that I didn't really do.

When I asked her if she loved me she said she was too busy "protecting me" to love me.

I haven't been daring enough to just flat out ask, but I also got a similar answer when I said I had wanted more guidance growing up.  I was told "We were trying to make you and independent woman."

that she's been "uncomfortable" with me since I "was a snob since age 11" and "I embarrassed" her with my "swishing around"

She constantly tells me that she never knows how to act around me, that she has to walk on eggshells around me, and that I'm always rubbing it in everyone's faces that I think I'm smarter than them.

pushing me off of her when I tried to hug her (i was 5)

This is the opposite, but she still holds it against me 15 years later that one time, as a teen, she went to hug me and I pushed her away.  This is then used as justification for her cutting me off emotionally since I did it to her first.

he used to never knock coming into my room

Still my mom, but she would do the same thing, including bursting into the bathroom when I was a teen.

I know she is talking about me because my aunt and uncle just unfriended me from Facebook.

It's so hard when other, seemingly logical people, back the BPD person.  My dad has been recruited and it just makes the hurt that much deeper than my own father is jumping on the bandwagon of the insane accusations.

This is not being treated with respect.  I'm in the same place as you though, where I'm starting to have to set boundaries, and dealing with the reality that no matter how much I want to have a loving, respectful relationship with my parents, I can't make that happen all by myself.  And it doesn't look promising that they are going to be willing to try.

If someone were treating your daughter this way, how would you feel?  That was the biggest eye opener for me.  Am I okay with letting my sons learn that it's okay for people (even if they are family) to treat other people this way?  How do I expect them to treat people and be treated?  We've grown up conditioned to take a lot of pain and take the blame for it too.  It's much easier sometimes to put things into perspective what you think about it from another angle.

[Calsun]

Hi Irejectthedrama,

Thank you for your post and thanks Kwamina and Sitara, as well.  I could relate so much to what you described.  

When I was an adolescent, my mother, a uBPD, would complain to me with comments like:  "why do you have to be so independent?"  When I took steps in my life toward growth and individuation, she would say:  "make your bed, don't come crying back to me."  If I did something she didn't like, something that she thought might bring her shame, she would say:  "do what you like, you're no longer a reflection of me."  When I came home with great grades in school, when I was a child, she would say:  "tell me the truth, would you have gotten great grades, if it wasn't for me pushing you.  You would have gotten all F's"  There was a consistent attempt to foster dependence.  Independence and individuation was met with abandonment (of course, there was constant emotional abandonment built in anyway) or threats of abandonment which is terrifying to a child.  My "failures" were mine.  My achievements belonged to her, and she exploited my achievements for her purpose.   So, I never really felt competent and capable, and therefore I always felt by necessity that I needed to be dependent on her.  There is the dependence and incapacity to leave her that she desperately wanted. A child needs to know that as he experiments and grows and takes chances and makes mistakes, that his parents will be supportive of him.  And needs to have a feeling of ownership of his own achievements, so that he can develop confidence and a sense of inner competence.  My uBPd mother wanted to undermine all of that to keep me dependent on her.  That's her sickness.

My uBPD employed the extended family to support her and validate her reality that she was a long-suffering selfless martyr whose children were taking advantage of her and not doing enough for her.  One of her masks for fostering dependence to serve her own emotional and psychological needs was the idea that her children were the ones who used her because they were lazy and lacked independence.  So, I had extended family that saw my mother as the victim.  To this day, my sister who has denial of the severity of my mother's illness, and hangs in there to take care of her in her elder years, will get lectured by cousins that she is not doing enough for my mother.  Remember, in many cases the extended family, which came from the same tree, has a lot of the same patterns of sickness and unhealth, so they are easier for the BPD parent to manipulate.  It then looks like general consensus is supporting the reality of the BPD parent when it is often people who have the same illness or same denial of the illness in their own family of origin that are providing a rigged support and sympathy for the BPD.

And I could relate to your parents using you in their squabbles.  My mother would ask me:  "who do you love more, your father or me?"  From the time I was very small, she openly screamed and raged about my father's perceived shortcomings and how he ruined her life, that he wasn't enough of a man. I was a captive audience for those attacks. That was abusive.

My uBPD mother was unconscious.  She would blame me for being hateful to her, for being a sicko.  She would project this stuff onto me, and my father who was afraid of my mother, would blame me for being a flake and tell me I had her wrong when I complained about her behavior.  And then my mother would deny even saying abusive things that were said.  Very crazy-making and very invalidating of a healthy sense of reality.

And because sexual abuse histories probably influence some of these character disorders to a significant degree and because uBPD's are largely unconscious. it's not surprising that inappropriate sexualization and parentification of children, sexual abuse and emotional incesting is going on in these families.  

Thanks again for your posts.  This site continues to be a source of tremendous insight and validation for me!  I am increasingly getting how these behaviors that seemed random and unrelated are part of a larger dynamic that was not unique to my family.  How comforting and empowering.

Best,

Calsun

[CinnamonRadio]

Hi Irejectthedrama,

First of all, I love your screen name- awesome!  Second of all I am so sorry to hear what your parents have been putting you through.  I would love to give you some feedback.  To be honest, most of the things you are describing strike me as abusive, cruel and inappropriate.  A few kind of stood out to me: 

-When I asked her if she loved me she said she was too busy "protecting me" to love me

To me this sounds like the answer of someone who just doesn't know what love is, or what it feels like.  My BPDMom has said similar things.  You could almost think of your BPD as a reporter who has spent a lifetime observing loving behavior on TV and in others, trying to explain why it is absent in her own reality.  You deserve unconditional safe love, and she just doesn't sound as though she is quite sure what that is. Not OK behavior at all.  In order to feel safe and to develop normally children definitely need to be clear that they are loved for who they are.

-laughing at me when I hurt myself as a child

Again, this is in the Not OK category.  First of all, it is cruel and inappropriate to laugh at anyone who is injured.  Secondly, if the injured person is your child, the correct reaction is to go to where your child is, make sure they are all right, reassure them they will be alright and possibly provide some medical attention if needed.  A hug and a smile and some kind reassuring words are definitely an important part of feeling capable of getting better, and feeling safe for children.

pushing me off of her when I tried to hug her

Wow can I relate to this one!  My mother barely touched me and definitely pushed me off once or twice when my hug was "too long".  In relation to another one of your comments- she now denies that she ever had difficulty with hugging, so the altered reality thing is another one I can relate to.  She now likes to give lots of hugs and kisses, and I really struggle with the heebie-jeebies when she does.  Not OK.

i caught him looking at me naked through my cracked door

This is a huge   .  What really concerns me about this is that you mentioned you have a daughter.  I think NC is a very good choice considering your dad's lack of respect for your privacy and personal space.  If he hasn't gotten help with this, it's not likely that he's going to have changed.  Even if it was only that one time, I find that very concerning.  That is not at all OK, it is a huge violation of your trust and your personal space.

I guess I'm having a really hard time not accepting the blame for how he feels even though I did really try my hardest to make everything ok. I am having a hard time with the fact that it feels like my whole family hates me now even though all I tried to do was stand up for myself and say that any decision I needed to make for me and my daughter's life was mine to make. They had no right to attack me for it.

I think this is something that a lot of children of parents with mental illness struggle with.  Your family may not understand where you are coming from, but you know what is best for your wellness and your daughter's wellness.  You hit the nail on the head, they don't have a right to attack you for it.  That being said, even if they do, that doesn't have to hurt you.  Everyone has an opinion, but that doesn't have to influence what you choose to do.  As a parent, I'm sure you've already made some choices that weren't popular with everybody, but you likely did it for your little girl.  Try to do the same for yourself, too!  Try not to worry if it's popular, do it because it is best for you. 

I'm happy but I'm also adrift. Can I make it right with them? Should I

You are only feeling adrift for now, but as time passes, you will make new friends and new bonds with people who respect you and treat you with kindness!  Don't worry about "making it right".  If the time comes when you FEEL like connecting again, do so at your own pace on your own terms.  You have nothing to apologize for, you did what was right for you and your daughter.  Give yourself a pat on the back for having the courage to stick up for yourself!

I hope that you can find some resources in your own community and keep enjoying your time as a mother.  Hope this helps at least a little bit! 

[Calsun]

Wow, JetsFan,  Just reading some of your responses was so helpful.  Yes, Irejectthedrama, I definitely also was pushed away when I wanted to hug my uBPD mother or get love and affection, especially at times when I was hurting.  I spent a lifetime feeling pain and self-loathing because my mother never loved me for who I was, and I was trying desperately to get her to love me.  I hit a horrible place in my life as an adult a number of years ago, it all was catching up with me.  And I went to her one day in desperation, and in tears said what I learned never to admit out loud, I just want to be loved.  I was in so much emotional pain.  And as I went to hug her with those desperate words, she pushed my arms away and said, get away from me.  And at that point, something in me just snapped, some kind of light bulb went off about who I was dealing with, how cold and twisted she was and how twisted it made me.

And I relate to feeling adrift.  I felt adrift and all alone in the world most of my life.  My mother would say to me growing up, you know, blood is thicker than water, no one will love you as much as your mother (a terrifying thought), and taught me to devalue friendship and be blindly devoted to family (even though the family was abusive and unloving).  And she convinced me that everyone in the world was like my mother, thought like her, was petty and negative like her, and above all sadistic like her and would respond to me with the contempt and rejection that she did, especially women. If they didn't, then in her words, I was fooling them.  So, I felt that the only way to ever be loved was to keep trying to get this BPD, incapable of real love and connection, to change her opinion of me and finally love me and see value in me.  

And that attitude is really what kept me adrift, feeling as though I couldn't really trust anyone and feeling as though I certainly couldn't trust my mother and my family which was also so unhealthy and in denial about my mother's illness.  If that is true about others, then that really doesn't leave you very much, but to feel lost and in isolation.  That will make you feel adrift big time.

But that prison of thought has been lifting steadily for me.  It really does change, and it is changing for me.  It's like increasingly I've been able, like a character in the Wizard of Oz, to finally pull the curtain away and see the wizard for who she is.  I felt I needed to get my intelligence, capacity for love and for being loved and courage and sense of worth from this little man hiding behind a curtain.  A little uBPD mother who cast a very big, powerful and scary image. Understanding the dynamics of her uBPd has helped me pull back the curtain and see the wizard for who she is, and she is becoming smaller and smaller in my thoughts and in the way in which I think of myself and others and the way in which I live my life.

Thank you again, Irejectthedrama and JetsFan for your shares and for all of the wonderful insights.  

Best,

Calsun

[mil2bpd]

But that prison of thought has been lifting steadily for me.  It really does change, and it is changing for me.  It's like increasingly I've been able, like a character in the Wizard of Oz, to finally pull the curtain away and see the wizard for who she is.  I felt I needed to get my intelligence, capacity for love and for being loved and courage and sense of worth from this little man hiding behind a curtain.  A little uBPD mother who cast a very big, powerful and scary image. Understanding the dynamics of her uBPd has helped me pull back the curtain and see the wizard for who she is, and she is becoming smaller and smaller in my thoughts and in the way in which I think of myself and others and the way in which I live my life.


Best,

Calsun

Hi Calsun,

I've been thinking of you... . how have you been doing?  You've been doing a fantastic job of researching and articulating your feelings and discoveries of what transpired in your childhood. Boy, am I angry with your mother!  Your siblings and your dad sound like they were practicing their own self-preservation methods, sad as it is to hear.

Great analogy with the Wizard of Oz. I'm sure a lot of people can relate to that. In fact, there's a book with that name: The Wizard of Oz and Other Narcissists.  There's a chapter in there that may be particularly helpful:  The Healing Journey for Adult Children of NPDs. 

One of the clearest messages I got from reading - books, articles, online forums - is the behaviors themselves that we witness, not us. Our attraction to the people who manifest such behaviors? Well, there can very well be a propensity towards such people (BPDs/NPDs) based on our own upbringing and backgrounds. Definitely some good food for thought, and growth.  Wonderbread for the mind.

[CinnamonRadio]

Hi Calsun!

It sounds as though you have done a TON of growth with respect to your UBPD.  It made me really sad to read her reaction to you trying to get some reassurance from her, what a horrible thing to do  

I loved your Wizard of Oz analogy.  It is such a true image to me that behind the huge terrifying disguise is just a pathetic little man trying desperately to control his kingdom.  And oh the comparisons we could make to the poor little subjects begging for hearts and brains (thought they had them all along)... . but I digress!

Thanks for the feedback, and the great analogy- great new perspective!