Now whats going on?

[Dibdob59]

Hi

I have just googled it and found the following link which states that mixing opiates and benzos can be pretty dangerous, even fatal.  Hope this info helps

www.desmoinesaddictiontreatment.com/rehab-guide/dangers-of-using-benzodiazepines-with-opiates/

Dibdob.

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[heronbird]

Thank you. Ill check it later.

Just got a call from dd, they have just accepted her into a mother and baby unit and she is coming to take the baby in a few hours.

:'( :'( :'(

Ive had him for just over 5 weeks now :'( I dont know how long they will be there for, if its a 6 week programme or what!

Its good for her though, she is trying so hard. What are the long term effects of someone with BPD going into a mother and baby unit, her BPD wont go away when she comes out, Im confused.

I think baby will miss me too :'(

[Thursday]

hi Heronbird,

Of course, I don't know the specifics of the program your DD and BB (baby boy!)  will be in, but I would guess the idea is training and to keep an eye on the new moms to make sure they know what to do and how to do it. Maybe they will know of some coping skills that can help your DD. Maybe job training will be a part of it and maybe someone there will get an idea of your DD's BPD and will know about something new that can help her.

Every so often, sometimes when things seem darkest, what is put in front of us saves us, so... .

Even though I know you will miss your little GS soo much, maybe this is exactly what your daughter needs and maybe she will learn some skill that can help her in the future, maybe some mental health professional will cross her path, maybe you will get some much needed rest!

Hope this helps!

Thursday

[pessim-optimist]

Hi HB,

 we stayed with our dd (my sd) several times to help her take care of kids. Every time we left, I missed them and cried, but it gets better with time; he is your dd's baby after all... .    

Can you visit? How often can you see them?

[js friend]

Hi Heron,

It is only natural that you wil miss your gs. I miss my gd when she is not here,

but your dd and gs need this programme if they are to have any chance of a longterm future together. We know how important it is to have early attachment  ... . So it is really important that they are allowed to do this.

Iam sure your dd  will also get some mental health treatment in there as the staff will know about your dds history and was has brought them there.

Look at this as a positive Heron.  Your dd and gs are safe, and you get some rest. You also have your upcoming holiday to enjoy with the  knowledge that they are both in a safe place and being taken care of. 

[heronbird]

Hi

Oh thank you all for your replies, its just he is so little, and I had him for 6 weeks, he is only 9, its so hard today I feel sad, its nice to hear I will get used to it, I just wish she had got there 3 or 4 weeks ago.

Will he be looking for me today do you think? I had him in such a good routine, it was perfect he was such a good baby yet dd says he screams a lot and she puts teething gel on his gums says its cos he is getting teeth, why is he screaming with her, and not me.

I miss him a bit, but I do have good things in my life so I will be ok, I wont tell my dd I miss him because she needs to think of herself and not feel bad. Hes dh is struggling, only first day!

Dont forget we have been primary care givers for most of babys life so far, she couldnt even hand dh a bib when he needed it thats how little she had to do with him.

Ok, M&B unit, I been thinking a lot. Very nice place, I have to say... .

So, say dd stays 6 weeks there, then she is better, she goes home, then what? BPD never going to come back? what happens there then, she suddenly gets a trigger.

Social services dont even know she is in there with baby, they think me and her dh have him, I dont know if thats going to be such a problem, I dont think social services wanted her in there. They went and got advice on BPD and were told they were out of their depth and they should get funding to do a parenting assessment for 4 months on dd.

I think this is how ss see it, me and SIL have been primary caregivers as I said, now baby with mum, thats good, but in new environment and strange people feeding him, is that ok, they dont love him either. Too much change too soon, causes problems in later life maybe.

Yesterday, I asked the psychiatric nurse if she has had people in with BPD, she said yes she knows of it, but she does not think my dd shows signs of it. Yes, if you met dd right now, you would never believe it, she is so well, well presented, very articulate, seems very able etc.

The other patients in there are more seriously ill the nurse said.

Js friend, my dd will probably get some therapy and it may be good but not enough to stand her in good stead for life with dh and baby.

I dont want rest, the baby so easy I miss him, I cant visit till after next Tuesday now as I am going away on Friday, it was so sudden, that was hard.

Thanks pessim for saying it gets easier, I hope so. How can it get easier when they are older and talking etc?

Thursday

If I truly believed it would help dd, Id be so happy, and Id cope well, trouble is I dont, I feel its a waste of time.

I actually think she has done this because she thinks its a quick fix, it will please ss and get them off her back, also her dh was telling her she has to go.

My dh thinks she will want to leave in a weeks time and wont stay, she has always done that in the past, but I think that depends on how she feels, after all her emotions are in charge.

Thanks again all.

[pessim-optimist]

Will he be looking for me today do you think? I had him in such a good routine, it was perfect he was such a good baby... . why is he screaming with her, and not me.

Just speculating here: I think he will miss you, he got used to you and the routine. That got disrupted, so he is probably a bit confused... . I also think that he can sense your dd's stress, so he is stressed out... .

As pwBPD are influenced by their environment, it is possible that she is stressed out, because the baby is stressed out. And baby gets stressed out, because he is reacting to mom's stress. Do you think she would be able to hear that from you and understand, that if she can be calm and soothing with him, it will soothe him? That she sets the tone for baby emotionally?

Ok, M&B unit... .

So, say dd stays 6 weeks there, then she is better, she goes home, then what? BPD never going to come back? what happens there then, she suddenly gets a trigger.

... . I actually think she has done this because she thinks its a quick fix, it will please ss and get them off her back, also her dh was telling her she has to go.

... . My dh thinks she will want to leave in a weeks time and wont stay, she has always done that in the past, but I think that depends on how she feels, after all her emotions are in charge.

Provided that the ss will be ok with this move... .

I am not sure what exactly the M&B unit is equipped for, what skills they can teach her, but it may be a good and safe environment for your dd to get used to her son and learn how to take care of him, under supervision.

You know the answer to your next question - BPD is not going away. However, she may be able to get a head-start on the baby thing and be on her way to cope with this new situation better.

If she suddenly wants to leave, you can deal with that situation when it comes... . In the meantime, can you find out what that would mean for her and your gs? Would she loose him? That might motivate her to stick with the program... . In any case, it will be her decision and the consequences will be for her to own as well. At least you have a heads-up on that and can get ready for that scenario... .

What do you think?

[heronbird]

Thank you pessim.

wise words from you and such a support, I really need that right now.

Dd is so happy in there she sent me a text last night telling me they are helping her so much and she has managed to feed the baby every feed, she couldnt do that at home. She said they never criticise her, Im not sure who did when she was at home, I saw her dh and he was ok with her I thought.

She didnt know how to put the baby to sleep without a bottle or rocking him, they told her to just leave him to cry and she was so happy, it worked. Yet when I said the same thing, she hated me saying that and just had a go at me.

I miss the baby a lot, but at the end of the day if they are getting help then thats good and Ill give up anything if the situation gets better.

Baby is bonding with mummy, thats good news isnt it, better than me.

Ok, now I know what its like to have grandchildren, I want more, but Id like normal ones haha.

I couldnt even buy this baby anything or sil thinks I am taking over he has baggage and insecure, he also lives off his emotions.

Didnt even go and visit last night, said he was too tired.

[TopsyTurvy]

Heronbird, I know you are missing your gs like crazy. You didn't get much notice before he was taken away. That had to be hard. I think he probably cries with your dd because he was used to you and the way you did things. It doesn't mean her ways are wrong, just different from yours, and it will take some time for them to develop their own routine. I think it is good that she is getting help and important for her to bond with her son. Even if you eventually get custody of gs, your dd will play an important role in his life and the closer their bond the better for all of you, I think.

I understand when you say that you were the primary caregiver. You have played a very important role in his life. I think that does change the r/s between you and gs. I know that you probably feel responsible for his safety and well being. I was the primary caregiver for my gs for almost 2 years. I know how sad and scared and frantic I felt when he first left. That is what lead me to post here for the first time. The great people here gave me wise advice and support to make it through. It will get easier.

For me, the way to find some peace was to practice mindfulness. I tried to stay in the moment when I was spending time with my husband or other children and not let the thought of gs consume me. It wasn't easy and he was still constantly on my mind, but sometimes pushed to the back and not always in the forefront. Does that make any sense to you?

I will keep you and your family in my prayers that things work out for the best and that you find some peace of mind.

[jellibeans]

heronbird

I believe that all things happen for a reason... . and sometimes we might not understand why but one day you will and you will see that is all makes sense. I really believe this... . even when something terrible happens... . I believe there is a reason and out of bad can come good.

I am hopeful for your dd and gs... . I hope she learns the skills needed to care for baby... . give it time... . stay positive... . and believe  

[heronbird]

Hello  

Thank you Topsy Turvy, oh my gosh, you had gs for 2 years then he was gone? is that what you were saying? Thats awful, how did you ever get over that?

Well, of course I posted when gs  had just gone, it was a shock and I was upset. Im ok ish now. If I truly believed this was going to help dd, I would be much happier. Ive seen a few good things with her being in there so I feel happier.

Topsy, you got it right when you said about me having no notice, I think that was the hardest thing, and yet if only I had managed to get hold of the social worker, she wouldnt have let this happen, I just found out yesterday she does not even know dd is in there with baby, so I may be in trouble because I released the baby without checking with her. They keep using me as a scape goat, Im not getting scared about that anymore. Its all so stupid.

Interesting that last night, SIL went to visit dd for first time, she changed when he was there, phoning me demanding money quickly to be transferred into her bank, then moaning about the hospital, they wont let her sleep with baby, they wont let her out with her dh and baby on Saturday, and why is no one telling her dh anything? Its funny because i noticed for the last two days he wasnt around, too tired to go and visit, she was her old lovely self, so pleased to be there with baby etc. So I guess its the old story of when she is with a bf she becomes worse.

Also, dd couldnt believe that baby does not cry all day and is happy, I told her its because she is more relaxed, he can sense it.

This board is so helpful to me especially at the moment.

Im off on a short holiday today, so I should be fine and I dont really miss him too bad, I just worry for his future.

jellibeans,

Thankyou, I agree with that a bit. It is from the Bible too isnt it, its still hard to see when you are going through tough times.

I can now see she is learning to care for the baby in there, I am pleased.

Especially as social services might be thinking of taking baby from her, not her dh, because on paper dd has all the issues not her dh, even though he has, but he never got help he was just abandoned by his mum at age 13 ish.

If dd looses all her rights that would be terrible, I would feel like I would want to carry out her wishes but if sil got all rights which is what he wanted, he can do what he likes, I would feel so sad for my dd.

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[Thursday]

Sorry you have so many worries right now.

So glad that your daughter is getting so much out of the program. Sometimes they need to hear the messages coming from someone else and sometimes they CAN see positive outcomes for themselves.

It must be so hard on your daughter, the hormones, the very real and difficult challenge of being in charge of a newborn.

Have you talked to her about the change you see in her when her husband comes around? Maybe frame it around the baby? Doesn't sound good if she has to go back to a situation that affects her so negatively... .

thursday

[TopsyTurvy]

I am so glad that you are feeling better about the situation. It is wonderful to hear that your daughter is learning how to take care of her son! That must be encouraging for you. Hopefully ss will see that she is working to improve her situation and not take away her rights.

To answer your question, yes I had gs for almost 2 years while my dd lived out of state. Then my dd removed him from our home with no warning because she was angry with me. He was gone for about 3 months and it was a very difficult period in our lives. I still have not gotten over that, but I did learn ways to cope. My gs and dd are both back home with us now. The future is kind of uncertain right now but for the moment he is safe and with us. I plan to start a thread soon so I can update and get some much needed advice.

I hope you enjoy you holiday. Just knowing gs and dd are in a safe place will hopefully allow you to relax. Keep us posted.

[pessim-optimist]

  Good to hear that you, dd and gs are doing good at the moment.

Especially as social services might be thinking of taking baby from her, not her dh, because on paper dd has all the issues not her dh, even though he has, but he never got help he was just abandoned by his mum at age 13 ish.

If dd looses all her rights that would be terrible, I would feel like I would want to carry out her wishes but if sil got all rights which is what he wanted, he can do what he likes, I would feel so sad for my dd.

That is worrisome... . I can see how you wanting to be in the picture and taking care of the baby makes sense. In any case, this is further down the road, and in the future the situation might change - if it turned out that sil cannot cope, the custody might change again, yes?

[qcarolr]

Heronbird - I hope your short vacation can refresh you - body, mind and spririt. We took a short trip, and I am so much more calm.

It is hard to trust our BPD girls with their children sometimes, esp. when they have had trouble. My DD was in similar situation where she kept the difficulties of her home situation from  social services until she realized they were giving all rights to her dh. Then she went to her lawyer with the whole story. Now I can tell that your D at least has exposure to strategies with her BPD. From your prior posts it seems her dh interferes with her ability to self-sooth, which is so important with the baby.

The mom&baby stay is so important for her to bond with him away from her dh. This is esp. true since things are not as good when he is visiting. It is so hard to meet needs of dh and baby sometimes, even for new mom's without the mental health issues. Dh seems to just step up and take over the baby. Maybe everyone around your DD needs to find ways to support her, trust her, that she can be a good mom. That she CAN LEARN what she needs to understand the developmental needs of her little guy.

Even if you end up with some of the parental responsibility for your gs, it is so very important for your DD to have a good r/s with him. And for her dh to have a good r/s with his son. It is also vital that the baby has one primary caregiver for the first year to establish his trust in the world so he can move into toddlerhood and more independence with little boy confidence. The most important aspect of parenting at this stage is for your gs to have a solid attachment with a primary caregiver - preferable the mom. It is good that there is this support of the mom&baby unit.

Do they have any kind of follow up program? Like a nurse visit each week? How do they include the father impact on this - can they instruct him on how important this bonding between your DD and your gs is during this first year? That he needs to be supportive of your DD, not trying to take baby away from her.

It has to be scary for you DD to find the confidence to be a mom. I hope you can find the resources you need to be the best grandma in this very trying situation. I also hope for your r/s with your DD to become stronger as you are able to support her as a good mom.

This is all just my humble opinion. Keeping you in my thoughts and prayers.

qcr  

[heronbird]

Thank you for all your replies, I dont know how Topsy managed that, gosh 2 years and he would be like my own, then dd can just take him.

My dds baby is on a child protection plan, she is not allowed to have him on her own.

What happened it was predictable,

Dd started throwing her toys out the pram, haha, she rang me yesterday as we were coming back from our lovely break, "Mum, Im leaving this place, the doc is stupid and does not listen to me, they wont let me sleep with the baby so Im leaving, where are you"

We drove home as planned, then drove to pick her up, dropped her off home with her dh and I have him again now as before, she gave M&B unit a week, said it was no help and decided to leave. She discharged herself.

My holiday is not really over, we were going to have a lovely day out on Friday in London, a ride along the River then an open top bus tour, then lunch or dinner.

Ok, today is the first day I have had baby back and she keeps texting me saying she wants to come over to help me look after him, but I have a life, and we are going out, I need to get on with stuff, he has been asleep all morning Im waiting for him to wake then go out, so I told her to come around 3, but she wants to come earlier. She misses him. Now I feel bad, like Im keeping him from her.

She wants me to have him at the weekend too so they can go out on Sat night, why dont they just keep him over the weekend.

I asked her if her husband could get Friday off, she says she will ask him.

When she was in the unit, she told me that all the other women in there had their husbands come in every day, I wondered if she would realise what her dh was like not supporting her by coming every day, she was the only one. Her dh only came once or twice, the first night he said he was too tired. My dh would never have dont that.

B T W

When we were away, my older dd age 23 been going out with her bf for 5 years  asked my dh if he could propose to dd within the next couple of weeks. I think they will get married next year. Ill miss her though.

My holiday was wonderful just what I needed and gave me a nice rest, I really  unwound.

[qcarolr]

heronbird - you sound so much more rested. sounds like you are setting good boundaries with your dd about visits with gs. And that is what it is now - visits. I know how hard it is with feelings like you are not being supportive of you dd by getting on with your own life that includes the baby.

What has helped me the most is to always stop and think 'what is best for the baby, dd has to take care of her own needs - she is not able to see baby's needs as most important'.  This still is something I have to remind myself about, and my gd is 8 now. And it seems that dd, at least for now, is accepting that dh and I are the 'parents', and she is more like a sister to gd.

The baby needs you continuous love - and you have lots of this to give him. He needs to know you face as the one that is always there for him, your voice that sings lullabye for him, your arms that shelter him.  You dd's requests to see him - this about HER needs and desires so much more that what the baby needs. Maybe about her own sense of guilt or shame that she knows you are better able to care for her son. And she does know this - it feels good to her sometimes and bad to her sometimes. As her mom you want to make this all better for her - by letting her control the schedule with your gs. Try to remember she is an adult, and only she can find a path to managing her feelings and thoughts -- she has to find the ways to put her energy into meeting her needs before she can be available emotionally for her son at all.

All these are from my experience - please take what fits for you and leave the rest. Give that little boy a hug from me.

qcr  

Congrats for you older D and her engagement. Maybe she will give you a chance to be 'just a grandmother' instead of a "grammy/mommy".

[griz]

heronbird:  I don't have experience with this but qcarol advice sounds so good.  I wanted to congratulate you on your other daughter also.

And kiss the lucky little boy that has you as a grandma.

Griz

[heronbird]

Qcarolr and Griz, Thanks for your encouragement and insights, its so helpful and I feel so supported. Gosh, this board has been a life line to me I think, especially recently.

I read out what you said to my dh Qcarolr, it is so wise. So true, its all about dd not gs for her :'(

I loved having him back today, 1st day. I just wanted to kiss him and stroke him, I remembered the workers in the M&B unit, they were lovely but they didnt Love my gs. It must be better for him to be with family.

Isnt it mean of me to tell dd she cant keep popping over? I felt so bad in the end. She kept asking what time she could come over, but baby sleeps most of the morning, then I needed to go shopping.

She texted me around 4pm and asked if she could come over, I said Id be home in half an hour so she came at 4.30, I had just put him to sleep, so I said he was asleep so she went to look at him and he had his eyes open, I would have left him and maybe even rocked him back to sleep but she said, oh, hes awake, I really want to pick him up, please can I pick him up, Im so desperate to cuddle him :'( How could I say no?  

She did pick him up and he seemed ok, but after a while got sad and moaney, she asked me if he had been like that all day, I said no not at all. So its all her fault now, baby isnt comfortable with her she said. I told her not to try to read him, hes a baby, you cant read babies. I reassured her.

Its so difficult.

Yes, one day, I will be a grandma. I am looking forward to it

But I will never resent helping my dd out,  not ever   I have a few friends who look after their grand children and they moan about it a  lot, they are not really very nice to the children and dont seem to be constructive with them.

I wouldnt mind your opinions on what you think about me saying dd cant come over, is it mean?

Thank you

[qcarolr]

I wouldnt mind your opinions on what you think about me saying dd cant come over, is it mean?

Well, truthfully it most often feels mean yet it is not mean at all. It is setting reasonable boundaries for the best health and development of this tiny child. Read any of the current child development books that include neuroscience based research and you can clearly see this. Your home is the best place for your gs. And this may be the case for months, if not years.

And you can validate your DD's feelings, which you are doing already. I often struggle with the words to say to my DD when she is feeling sad about not being the mom for gd. Then there are those times when she is in a rage and screams at me what a bad mom I am and how I will mess up gd just like I messed her up.IT is such a good thing that your DD supports your care of her son, and that social services has placed him with you.

I believe, looking back, that I did not do such a good job putting boundaries in place limiting DD's access to gd, esp in the beginning. I so wanted to help her become the 'real mom'. This placed a lot of unneeded stress on gd - even to the level of trauma that we are trying to manage in child therapy and at school. DD said today that gd is like her in being anxious - that gd shares many things in common with her. That she believes it is genetic. We were talking about some extreme responses gd has been experiencing to storms (normal for this time of year) and to the loss of her pet cricket. DD seems to be supportive of the therapy for gd now -- this was not always so.

So it is OK to limit your D's visits to her son's more awake times. Remind her that these will become more frequent and longer as he matures. And it is OK if his nap is disturbed when he is not soundly sleeping, like today.

Sometimes with DD, she was not really emotionally attached to gd (or her son placed in foster care at 5 months and adopted by foster parents at age 2). I think this placid face and disconnection is common with BPD mom's. I have read this somewhere. The baby/young child is often confused by this which may explain the fussiness. As he gets toward 2-3 months, and can start engaging more with seeing things beyond your face, maybe this will get better for you D.

Are there any development based parenting classes your D could attend? And your SIL. To help them understand what to expect at different ages and how to engage in play with them along the way. In US there is a program called "Bright Children" or something like that. They have a web sight I will search it out. It gives really concise information in easy to read poster format. I got these from social services for first 3 years with gd.

Keep doing what you are doing - loving both.

qcr  

[qcarolr]

Here is a link to the Bright Beginnings Early Childhood Program in our area. I wonder if something like this is available in the UK.

www.brightbeginningsusa.org/

The books and nurse visits were very helpful for me with gd.

qcr

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[heronbird]

Hi,

Thanks Qcarolr, we do have parenting classes over here, the interesting thing will be weather they would go or not. Social services say they may make it a must for them to attend, but ss wonders if they will go.

SIL wont take a day off work for anything unless they threaten him. he works from 7am to 7pm so how would he do that.

My dd booked antenatal classes, they were £400 but she got them for £40. She was privileged, but didnt go.

I get so confused, sometimes I just wish dd would just go on her merry way and do all the things she was doing in the first 6 weeks and leave baby to me completely, I dont want her to come over and get on well and work things out because I know it will only be short lived and its so unfair.

At least my friends who have their gc on a daily basis dont have all this.

I dont think it is ok to disturb a sleeping baby, you see when she did that yesterday, it took me ages to settle him again, and she had gone by that point.

Also, dd keeps getting threats from the people who are involved in this case. She has been told by the baby s social worker, if you dont come over to your mums to see baby, that will look bad on you. She was told, if you leave hospital that will look like you dont care about your baby. They told her if you leave the baby with your mum over night too much that will look bad. Its everything, and I am not sure its helpful really. Plus the fact they never see the real her if she listens to all that.

And, yes, like you said, when baby was 3 weeks old, dd just couldnt look at him, she felt so guilty about this but she couldnt, she was also so detached from him, it was like she was looking at a friends baby, it was the hardest thing to see, to me, that is seriously ill and no one did much to help her.

Like when she used to self harm and no one took it very seriously, I was told oh, its only superficial. How can that be at age13  

Ok, so it isnt mean... . so how much should I let her come over, I dont know baby s wake times now, hes not in same routine as before. I had him in a routine you see.

If she misses him so bad, why do they want me to have him at the weekends too  

[qcarolr]

If she misses him so bad, why do they want me to have him at the weekends too  

I think in a logical, rational way. Have to remind myself that my DD thinks in a different way that I can never really understand fully. It is like she only misses the child when it is convenient for her, someone is asking about it or she perceives they are making a judgement against her because she does show actions that she 'cares'. The comments of the ss workers - they do not realize how invalidating and triggering these comments are. Like making her feel bad about it will change her behavior -- thinking -- feelings. Force her to be a 'normal mom'.

You have done such a good job of following you intuition about things over past few years with your DD. You can continue to do this with her, and create a protected space for your gs to live in. It may be hard, but can you offer a regular scheduled time, say 4 times a week, for her to visit with the baby. Then you can be prepared for him to be up during that time as you get him back on a schedule. This may satisfy ss so they will stop pestering your dd -- if she is willing to show up at the scheduled time.

Worth a try?

qcr    

[heronbird]

Yes, Thank you. Im not sure I can cope with 4 times a week haha. Its so hard, really it is. Maybe I could do 3 times a week. He senses she is nervous and cries more, then she gives him to me, Im calm and she thinks baby likes me more and I am much better than her for him. I tell her I am not, he does not want me to be his mum.

Well SS are out of their liege arent they, they dont know what BPD is.

Actually, I will give our social worker her credit, she went back to dds old P to ask her some questions, she did that without me asking her. She didnt have to. Dds old p knows dd, new one does not, new one has hardly seen dd and I think she thinks my dd just has a bit of a headache, she does not take her seriously. She sees dd once a month for 15 mins just for her meds.

The old P told social worker that she is out of her depth with BPD. Social worker said she didnt take offence, she just saw it as a challenge. Sounds good really.

Yes, you are so right about dd only wanting to come over when it suits, if she has a day out shopping or something she likes, she wont miss him.

Well, I told her I was out all day today, she was ok with that, tomorrow we are going to a big park, we invited dd, she said she wants to come, she can push him in the pram, she will like that.

Thanks for your replies, so helpful and I really need it right now