I can't believe this happened

[How to communicate after a contentious divorce...]

Deep breath===

uBPDh and I had a big argument tonight and he has packed his stuff for the upteenth time and has left.  I thought we were past this. 

We had had a good day, for us, and had lunch together and he was in such a good mood this morning.  It was a rarity.  Then he came home from work and dropped the bomb that he had been invited to go this weekend for a "poker night." The clincher is that it would be miles away, far enough that it would require an overnight trip. As a bonus, it is with people, whom I have never met and whom he never wants me to meet because he knows that in the event of a divorce they would side with me the wife.  What? 

So I was not thrilled when he told me, clammed up, and told him to do whatever he wants.  He got very angry and immediately started saying it's always the same with you, he was yelling, cussing (in front of the kids) and I tried stating why I was unhappy with the idea of it, etc, but he wouldn't listen.  Then I calmed myself and said let's talk about it when the kids are in bed, to which he said, no.  He said they've heard it all anyway, so what does it matter if we subject them to more? Then I left the room, went about the evening. 

Later, after kids were in bed, he came and tried to "talk" but it was basically telling me we need to divorce (always his first response) and accused me of changing our passwords on our bank account.  Which he was checking to tell me how much money I can have since he is leaving me. 

I tried stating my feelings, but with him there is no point.  My feelings are... . that he doesn't spend time with his family, he has been working so much that he is hardly home and that when he is home he is not really here anyway.  So for him to want a night away is ridiculous.  Plus, I would not ever be afforded the same luxury.  To go away for a night with friends he has never met and when he knows nothing about what will be happening.  Who will be there, etc.  He said nothing to try and ease my mind about it.  Plus, the fact that he has these friend, a couple with young kids, that he never wants to meet me and his kids.  What is that about?  I know it's the BPD, but I can't take it anymore.

He tried to "talk" to me several times, ended up calling me a bhit a few times, and I walked away.  He was packing his stuff, but it was obviously for my benefit and he was trying to continue to talk to me.  I mean, what for?  So I left the room, grabbed my head phones and sat outside.  He came to try and "talk" again, but it wasn't anything that would lead anywhere.  I was kind of mean, but I am so sick of the bull___.  He came outside to where I was, carrying my laptop, said something and threatened to smash it.  I said if you do, I will call the police.  He said, fine I will do it in the back yard so I ordered him to put it down, then I said if you smash it I will call the police and have you escorted out of the house. I was dead serious.  He called me a snake and a bhit, of course, for standing up for myself. I stayed outside a while longer.

He packed his car, came in to sleep on the couch, and then I came in a while later and went to the bedroom. I guess the fact that I ignored him was too much and he has left. 

Ugh... . he has no way to get back in the house unless I let him.  I have secretly been hoping for a divorce.  Now I don't know if I feel anything.  I feel strangely calm. I guess I have been through this so many times that it's a non-event.  Maybe this time it will stick.  I don't know.  It is up to me now. 

I keep thinking that maybe I was wrong to feel that way about the trip.  He feels like he works all the time and I should feel happy for him to get the chance to do something like that.  It's just that no matter what, of course, I am always giving way more than I am receiving in this rs.  He is so selfish I just can't take it anymore.  He never makes plans with me, his wife, never makes his family a priority, aside from providing for us.  I just think something like this should be talked about before hand, the other person should know them and feel okay with it.  But none of that has happened and he just wants me to be okay with it.  Whatever he does, I am just supposed to be okay with it.  I can't just be okay with it.  I have tried.  It doesn't work.  I am not that person. 

As far as I am concerned, I will follow this path.  I will follow his lead.  I want him to have to face the reality of life without me.  As I will have to face it without him. 

I feel... . strangely relieved. 

[4now]

Deep breath===

uBPDh and I had a big argument tonight and he has packed his stuff for the upteenth time and has left.  I thought we were past this. 

We had had a good day, for us, and had lunch together and he was in such a good mood this morning.  It was a rarity.  Then he came home from work and dropped the bomb that he had been invited to go this weekend for a "poker night." The clincher is that it would be miles away, far enough that it would require an overnight trip. As a bonus, it is with people, whom I have never met and whom he never wants me to meet because he knows that in the event of a divorce they would side with me the wife.  What? 

So I was not thrilled when he told me, clammed up, and told him to do whatever he wants.  He got very angry and immediately started saying it's always the same with you, he was yelling, cussing (in front of the kids) and I tried stating why I was unhappy with the idea of it, etc, but he wouldn't listen.  Then I calmed myself and said let's talk about it when the kids are in bed, to which he said, no.  He said they've heard it all anyway, so what does it matter if we subject them to more? Then I left the room, went about the evening. 

Later, after kids were in bed, he came and tried to "talk" but it was basically telling me we need to divorce (always his first response) and accused me of changing our passwords on our bank account.  Which he was checking to tell me how much money I can have since he is leaving me. 

I tried stating my feelings, but with him there is no point.  My feelings are... . that he doesn't spend time with his family, he has been working so much that he is hardly home and that when he is home he is not really here anyway.  So for him to want a night away is ridiculous.  Plus, I would not ever be afforded the same luxury.  To go away for a night with friends he has never met and when he knows nothing about what will be happening.  Who will be there, etc.  He said nothing to try and ease my mind about it.  Plus, the fact that he has these friend, a couple with young kids, that he never wants to meet me and his kids.  What is that about?  I know it's the BPD, but I can't take it anymore.

He tried to "talk" to me several times, ended up calling me a bhit a few times, and I walked away.  He was packing his stuff, but it was obviously for my benefit and he was trying to continue to talk to me.  I mean, what for?  So I left the room, grabbed my head phones and sat outside.  He came to try and "talk" again, but it wasn't anything that would lead anywhere.  I was kind of mean, but I am so sick of the bull___.  He came outside to where I was, carrying my laptop, said something and threatened to smash it.  I said if you do, I will call the police.  He said, fine I will do it in the back yard so I ordered him to put it down, then I said if you smash it I will call the police and have you escorted out of the house. I was dead serious.  He called me a snake and a bhit, of course, for standing up for myself. I stayed outside a while longer.

He packed his car, came in to sleep on the couch, and then I came in a while later and went to the bedroom. I guess the fact that I ignored him was too much and he has left. 

Ugh... . he has no way to get back in the house unless I let him.  I have secretly been hoping for a divorce.  Now I don't know if I feel anything.  I feel strangely calm. I guess I have been through this so many times that it's a non-event.  Maybe this time it will stick.  I don't know.  It is up to me now. 

I keep thinking that maybe I was wrong to feel that way about the trip.  He feels like he works all the time and I should feel happy for him to get the chance to do something like that.  It's just that no matter what, of course, I am always giving way more than I am receiving in this rs.  He is so selfish I just can't take it anymore.  He never makes plans with me, his wife, never makes his family a priority, aside from providing for us.  I just think something like this should be talked about before hand, the other person should know them and feel okay with it.  But none of that has happened and he just wants me to be okay with it.  Whatever he does, I am just supposed to be okay with it.  I can't just be okay with it.  I have tried.  It doesn't work.  I am not that person. 

As far as I am concerned, I will follow this path.  I will follow his lead.  I want him to have to face the reality of life without me.  As I will have to face it without him. 

I feel... . strangely relieved. 

[Validation78]

Hi 4now!

Sounds much like an evening many of us are familiar with. It's hard trying to communicate your feelings about an important matter with a pwBPD. If you've tried using the tools we talk about here, and don't feel like things are getting better, then of course, you need to do something different. I understand the feeling of relief too. When I told H to leave for what I knew would be the last time, I felt the weight of the world lifted off my shoulders!

So, what's your next move?

Best Wishes,

Val78

[4now]

I didn't sleep at all Friday night and was coming down with a cold, so I felt miserable yesterday.  I was overwhelmed with emotion and sadness, which was compounded with the cold and lack of sleep. 

I texted him several times yesterday morning and he wouldn't respond to any. So I asked him to please just let me know he was alive and he responded with a " . ". Then I told him I thought he was being rude that I was sick and didn't sleep and the kids just think he is at work.  He obviously doesn't care how we are, but I thought I should tell him so he can't just forget we exist.   Then he called and was fairly nasty and said not to contact him anymore.  That the next time I do contact him it should be through a lawyer so I can get what I can get from him.

This obviously hurts and makes me feel so angry that he could just throw his family away because I couldn't get on board with his overnight trip.  He feels like, and has said many times, like he is just "my slave" and can't do anything fun.  I feel like he wants to have liberties and live like he is a single man.  Fundamentally, we are so very different.

I don't know if this is over, but I have decided to not make any decision for two weeks.  I will not take any legal action for two weeks, unless I am forced to.  I also won't let him move back in for the next two weeks.  I am hoping this time will let me sort out my feelings and decide what I want.

I feel such relief knowing he is gone and I don't have to deal with him and his "stuff" for now.  A future without him does NOT terrify me anymore.  It looks calm, happy, predictable, and peaceful. 

He has made it an easy transition for me.  He wasn't really here before anyway.  He usually just made things tense for me. 

Anything I should be cautious of?  What sort of tricks might I expect from him? 

Thanks for reading!

[Validation78]

Hi 4Now!

Since he told you not to contact him, are you prepared to go through the next 2 weeks without doing so?

He knows exactly how to upset you. He leaves, you chase. After you texted, and he wouldn't respond, you were understandably upset, and he felt in control. He is fed by your emotional response to his behavior.

Let him sort out his feelings on his own. One thing pwBPD don't know how to do is self soothe, and his running away from home so to speak, is his way of exerting his control.

In the meantime, the time apart will allow you to figure out what you want. Are you ready to end it? If not, what will you do differently if you allow him to come back?

Best Wishes,

Val78

[4now]

He told me not to contact him, which I was prepared to do unless absolutely necessary.  Then today I tried to log on to our bank account to see if he'd taken out all the money or anything and I couldn't log on.  It made no sense because I had logged on Friday, to get the correct username and password to give to him after he accused me of changing it.  I hadn't changed anything and logged on.  Then today I can't.  So I texted him and asked if he'd changed the password.  He denied doing anything, but it seems seriously coincidental. Now I realize I should have let it be and not contacted him about it.  That is probably what he wanted.  I told him he needed to re-set the password and then pay his bills, since I am unable to.  I guess I will go get money tomorrow and hope that there is some left.  What a pain.

I am extremely black in his eyes right now.  I stood up to him and he didn't like it. 

Now I am prepared to not contact him.  I hope I can see his tactics coming and don't fall for them.  I can't say if I am 100% done with the rs, but I am pretty close.  I don't feel like I can make that "final" decision right this moment, after so much intense drama.  I want a few days of calm to know what I want. 

The only thing I know is that I can't go around this merry go round again.  I think a true separation is in order.  I think he needs to accept he has a problem and needs help.  Then, maybe, would I consider any sort of reconciliation.  But, honestly, I don't see him getting help.

I still feel relieved that he is elsewhere and not here.  I would be wondering where he'd been, what he'd been doing, etc.  Now, he's not my problem. 

I don't feel lonely either.  He was gone so much anyway and wasn't here for me ever.  There, sadly, is not much to miss.  I have already done the detaching and the grieving, I think.

I feel a little hesitant to commit to being fully done with him. Maybe that resolution will come. 

[Validation78]

Hi 4Now!

I would take care of my own financial matters, and let him take care of his. If he doesn't, oh well, not your problem. I would do what I had to to protect my financial interests though, and if that means going to the bank and going to some extra effort, so be it! While he's upset, I wouldn't count on him for anything.

Yes, of course he's upset with you for standing up, setting boundaries as he isn't used to that! On Staying, we often talk about things getting worse before they get better once we start to use the tools.

As for him getting help, you cannot control that. He has to come to that conclusion on his own. For the time being, concentrate on what you can do for yourself, and for the future of the relationship, how ever you decide to proceed. We all do things in our own time, when we are ready!

Best Wishes,

Val78

[allibaba]

Oh 4Now,

I'm so sorry.  He's baiting you.  The trip away for the weekend.  The comments.  The threatening to smash the laptop. Probably changing the password on the bank account.

You know I have been there!  So many of us have been there.

What can you do to self-soothe?  Things will get worse before they get better.  We constantly get dragged into JADEing.  You know how strong you have to be to make these relationships work.

[4now]

Thanks Allibaba and Val---

Turn of events--he called Monday morning first thing and said he needed to come to the house to get work papers.  His phone call woke me and so I wasn't thinking about the fact that he probably didn't need any work papers.  He tried talking on the phone and I just said it really didn't matter because now he could do what he wanted.  He came to the house, came and obviously wanted to talk and smooth things over.  I stated my points about everything and he agreed I was right about it all.  Then he said he was so sorry, could I forgive him.  It was a huge change from how he normally is so combative.  I told him it's not about forgiveness at this point.  He said, well can you please just forgive me and I can leave but we can be friends.  He was like a wounded child.  I said that he needs to get help.  I told him it's not normal what he goes through and puts us through.  He agreed to get help. 

There is a psychologist fairly close to where we live whom I believe is somewhat of an expert on BPD/NPD and has published a book.  I am going to call her here shortly and hope that she can see him.  If he backs out and refuses to get treatment, I am out.  I had a few days of freedom and not walking on eggshells and it was so nice.  It was such a relief.  Just in the 24 hours he has been back there has already been a "minor" incident that could have turned ugly.  I just refuse to live like that anymore.  I am feeling like I might have jumped the gun and let him come back too soon, but I am willing to try once more if he is in treatment.  If he won't do it or it doesn't help him eventually, I am going to call it quits.

Life is too short to live like this!

[4now]

So disappointed---

The psychologist mostly works with the caretaker in the rs, not the BPD/NPD himself.  She couldn't even really tell me someone in the area who specializes in that area.

Back to square one. 

What sort of professional does he need?  A psychologist or psychotherapist? 

[allibaba]

4now,

My husband goes to his first therapy appt tonight.  The guy is a PhD in psychology but he says that my husband also needs to see a psychiatrist for prescriptions. 

My husband is upset about the events of last week.  He says that he'll never forget his behavior and cries over and over.  Fingers crossed.

[4now]

Alibaba,

I will be thinking about you and hoping that it all goes well for your h tonight. 

It's hard to keep the faith, isn't it? 

Keep us posted!

[Validation78]

Hi 4now!

Glad you have some resolve about your feelngs on the matter. I frequently used the term cautious optimisim when referring to the chances of therapy being our answer.

I sugguest that you look for someone who can help you both with DBT and/or schema. It doesn't have to be a Dr. It can be a clinical social worker or psychologist. Not that it's all there is, however, many experts feel that these 2 types of treatment are the best hope for pwBPD. In the meantime, please buck up on The Lessons on the staying board. Even when a pwBPD is fully committed to DBT, it often takes years to get better, and you will need good communication tools!

I hope things work out for you, and for you as well Alli!

Best Wishes,

Val78

[4now]

 :'(

I guess we haven't hit rock bottom just yet.  I talked to a psychologist today who said he'd be able to work with him.  He does DBT and the schema Val mentioned.  But, ... . h says the $110 an hour is too much and he doesn't have money to do it.  Technically, he is right, we don't have the money, but he didn't even offer a way to make it work or if there's anyone else who isn't as expensive.  He's totally back-pedaling.  I told him I'm out, that I'm done if he refuses to get help.  He says I need just as much help, wanting to share the blame I guess.  I said yes I do but until he gets help we can't get help together and work on our marriage together.  He said he'd move out by the 10th of August.

I guess we'll see.  I am sticking to it.  I can't do it anymore.  He said it's nice to know I don't love him unless he gets help.  It's because I love him that I want him to get help. 

[4now]

Am I doing the right thing?  I feel I can't let him keep leaving and coming back.  We keep repeating the same sick cycle and if it were just me and him, who cares?  But we have three kids who just thought Dad was moving out and now he's back.  And this isn't the first time.  I really want better for myself, too.

I'd love to say okay, let's just try again, offer an ultimatum about him leaving again.  I don't think I'd gain a darn thing.  Is this feeling resolve? Is it truly over for me? 

[papawapa]

4now,

You are wavering back and forth. I hear you say you are ready to move on and you also hope he will get help and your relationship will be saved. You need to stop and think about your kids. Kids imitate what they see as they grow up. Do you want your children to grow up thinking that the chaos they are living is normal and for them to end up in chaotic unhealthy relationships as adults?

I know exactly where you are at and how you feel. I've been there too. My BPDgf and I separated after I called her threats of "I'm going to leave you someday." I had enough of the dysfunction and made her take her things and leave. I have used the kids as leverage to force her to get help or lose them forever. I am still unsure if even this will be enough for her to get help. Like your husband she made a million excuses not to get help while we were together. Now she has to follow through with the order of a judge to get them back in her life.

You need to give him an ultimatum and stick to it. Expect him to choose to leave instead of getting help for himself. To him he is not the problem, you are. You need to be strong and make him choose one or the other. When he leaves change the locks and limit your contact with him. Don't let him come back unless he makes it to some appointments for himself on his own. You also need to be prepared for the pain this is going to cause you. Once he is gone you will hurt like you have never hurt before. Despite what you think and what you are saying, you are not ready for your relationship to be over.

[Surnia]

4now

It is a very difficult place you are in. 

Being undecided is hard. Or being decided but unable to stick with it... .

You are in a dynamic right now for yourself. As long as you give him many other chances, he can continue like this.

You were very disappointed about tho other T working with caretakers... . Perhaps this would be a option for yourself given he would not move out until 10 of august?

I did this in my now ended marriage, when couple counseling did not work. I went to a T myself. I would never be able to sort all my issues out without the help of a T... .

[4now]

Update---

Shortly after writing those posts he came to me and said "why was I doing this to him?"  I nicely explained that it's because I do care about him and our marriage.  That if he doesn't get some help now our marriage will be over.  No two ways about it.  We have been doing this dance for a long, long time and it always goes the same way and ends the same way.  He said he is trying to change and that  it just doesn't happen overnight.  I explained I think he is in a lot of pain and needs help for himself.  He finally agreed again.  I made the appointment and spoke some to the psychologist about the situation.  The appointment is later today, so I hope that he follows through.  If he doesn't I am back to my original plan of separating. 

It's so hard... . of course I don't "want" my marriage to be over.  But like Papawapa said, I don't want to drag my kids through this any longer.  And I sure don't want them to grow up thinking this is okay and how relationships work.

Surnia--as far as seeing my own T, I honestly have made up my mind about what I am going to do.  I just need to follow through and not fall for his manipulations.  I obviously have my own set of issues, but mainly it is why have I settled for so little in life?  I am working through this now.  I also used to have huge issues with being alone, but I have worked through this too.  I feel like I will be fine as a single mom.  I actually think the break from a rs would be nice.  I don't want to be in denial, of course, but I think I am dealing fairly well.  I also am not opposed to seeing a marriage counselor down the road once we get to a point where it might be beneficial to us.

I will keep posting. Thanks guys!

[allibaba]

4now,

I just want to say that I understand right where you are at.  I'm here too... . in exactly the same spot.  The biggest issue with BPDs seeking help is 'if they are going just because they have to will they stick to it'.  In my case, our recent situation at home has been bad enough that my husband genuinely understands that he has a problem.  Will that understanding keep him getting help once the pain of the last situation wears off.  In our case, I hope it does because the pain for him was incredibly bad.  I am hearing ownership for his actions in his words (a real first).  I told him that I didn't want him going to a therapist if it was just for me... . because it wouldn't help.  I think that sometimes BPDs have to hit hard rock bottom to understand that real change is necessary.

You sound so much like me -- and I am hoping and praying that your husband gets the help that he needs.

I am seeing a therapist... . you don't have to go every week but its nice to have the support available when you need it.  A good psychologist really makes a difference.  I recommend finding someone that you can trust, then go once or twice so that if the 'you know what' hits the fan... . you have someone to call.

Have you read books on relationships with BPDs?  That might also be a good supplement in addition to at least getting a therapist.

  Hang in there.  I'm pulling for you.

[4now]

Ali--

It's crazy... I have been watching your situation play out for a while now.  Things were relatively calm for me and I so felt for you.  Now I am in the same situation.  I don't think my h has hit bottom yet.  I guess I saved him too soon. I do think we sound a lot alike, although you seem to have way more patience than me! 

He did go to his appointment.  He started texting me about an hour before it and wanted the address. I had already given it to him and didn't have it on me. I thought, here we go, this is his way of getting out of it. He managed to go. He came home and was obviously put out with me, then tried to compose himself, I think, and be nice.  Then we talked some about how it went, nothing detailed.  Then he said, well you better get your piggy bank out because this is going to be expensive.  Background-I had told him I had some money sat aside and we could use that for therapy, although it wouldn't go super far, and I was meaning in the case when we didn't have the money to pay.  I asked if he meant now, he said yes for the next appointment.  I said we have the money in our account right now to pay for it, I'd rather we use that money and save the "savings" in case we don't have the money down the road.  This made him mad and he asked if I enjoyed this power trip?  Holy projection! I said it felt like a punishment to me that I need to fork over the money, even though we have the money in the account. I said the money isn't a secret, he knows about it, I'd just rather use the money we have in our account.  Then he asked what was for dinner and I told him.  Then silence.  I don't know if he didn't like what was for dinner or the preceding conversation, but he left the room shortly after.  I made dinner, sat the kids and I down to eat and didn't call him.  He did have to come and make his own dinner and eat it away from us in front of the TV.  He also started a movie for himself, even though I had told him we were going to watch a movie as a family tonight.  He rarely sits in front of the TV and watches something when we are "fighting" so it felt a little intentional. The kids kept asking me if we were going to watch the movie.  I told them not tonight.  I didn't want the fight.  I felt like it was what he was looking for.  I will watch the movie with them tomorrow and enjoy more anyway.

What a big, mind numbing drama.  I mean, the stupidest things are such a big deal.  I am so done.  Done, done, done. 

I have nothing in me that wants to try and give a damn anymore. 

[Validation78]

Hi 4now!

I don't want to discourage you. It's great that he has agreed to go to T, and I sincerely hope it makes a difference for all of you! You have to be realistic though. It's not magic, and short of a miracle, will not work over night, will not work by itself (meaning he has to do more than show up), and if he is BPD, should be, as I mentioned earlier, DBT or Schema preferably. Even in the best case scenario, it could take years for him to get better.

This is why we focus so much here on what we can do to improve things ourselves. If we are going to give our pwBPD a chance to make changes, the best thing for us to do in the meantime is to take care of ourselves, and work on the communication tools we can learn here. If we can't accept the whole picture, we must decide what is best for our own well being and move forward. Being in limbo is very difficult, I totally understand. However, planning, deciding, and acting will help to restore a sense of power and control over our lives!

Best Wishes,

Val78

[4now]

Val--

I know that therapy can't be an instant cure.  I guess I was just hoping that his "contriteness" from the beginning of the week would have lasted longer than it did.  He is back to feeling like he does no wrong.  

This morning he so nicely came to me and said we need to get apart.  I feel like I am being punished for standing up for what I believe is right, ie not giving him the money right now as we have the money in our account.  He feels like I "kicked" him when he is down and after he opened himself up to me.  I feel damned if I do, damned if I don't.  He wanted to discuss things "nicely" but I am so angry at the whole situation.  I feel like I have bent over backwards trying to make it work and now I have no bend left in me.  He said he'd be out in five days, just enough time for it to be right before my birthday.  Yay me!

Not knowing what to do really.  Five days is a long time to wait for someone to get out.

>> >

Now he is trying to talk things out.  I am trying so hard to understand where he is coming from, but it's all so maddening. After all the hurt and things he's done, now he tells me all of his problems stem from me.  That was the gist of his appointment apparently.  That all his anxiety and stress etc is from me and my lack of support.  I must be terrible!

I sure feel like I am terrible.  Why do I engage with him?

[4now]

I feel totally broken.  Like just giving up and saying yes, dear, whatever. 

He came and wanted my van to take the kids to the movies.  I told him to take his car which, if cleaned, fits all kids.  He says his car is too messy and he needs mine.  I said no.  He says I hate him because I said no.  He can clean his car.  Oh my gosh.

Also, he is now saying I need just as much help as him.  Clearly.  He says I don't see my problems or what I do wrong.  That I am controlling and unsupportive.

I want to just walk away and give in.  Let him do what he wants and escape with my kids and sanity (maybe).  Now I question my sanity.

[Surnia]

Hi 4now

I can so relate to your situation. 

What happened very often in those kind of relationships: Over the years we gave more and more from our space away. You named it: "No bend left for me". Make a turn and having some space back is hard work. And you will receive things like "You hate me."

Second thing I can relate: enmeshment. Your h has huge difficulties to accept a No. This makes him think you don't love him. You should be like he want you to be. Divergence is probably a trigger for him.

What about validation? Did you try this? Like: Yes, I hear you, it is uncomfortable to take a uncleaned car.

Also, he is now saying I need just as much help as him.  Clearly.  He says I don't see my problems or what I do wrong.  That I am controlling and unsupportive.

Probably projection. Invalidating. It has nothing to do with you. I am familiar with this too. It took me soo long to hear this kind of stuff and not feeling very bad... .  

[Theo41]

There has been very little written about the children. As we know it's very hard on them.our kids were subjected to a lot of it, as was I growing up. It has a devastating impact on them. Both my grown children maintain their distance. Both have told me that they were badly scarred by the experience. Both are in therapy and one has never been able to sustain a relationship. Children not only feel very threatend by the fighting/discord, they frequently believe they are the cause. It's very, very important not to fight in front of them. It's a form of child abuse. We were able to stop on the advise of a therapist and the children improved noticeably. Both kids have said divorce would have been much better from their perspective. This stuff is poison. It's inexplicable how we continue to subject ourselves to it but how can we continue providing a sick poisonous environment to our kids?

[Edelweiss]

What a big, mind numbing drama.  I mean, the stupidest things are such a big deal.  I am so done.  Done, done, done. 

I have nothing in me that wants to try and give a damn anymore. 

I definitely understand this sentiment. My heart goes out to you. They certainly can be extremely difficult to live with, no matter how well we use the tools or even if they are receiving help or not. Sounds like you handled the situation with the movie night right. It's weird how passive-aggressive they so often are, yet never seem to be able to see it and realize it for what it is.

Crazy, crazy, crazy stuff. Hope you are able to experience some peace soon.

[4now]

Hi ---

Thanks everyone for the replies.

Saturday was a really tough day.  I posted my last post and then we had crazy weather that rolled in.  We were under tornado warning and had golf ball size hail.  We had some damage to our house, but I feel lucky we still have a house.  It was sort of scary, but it was more amazing to watch what mother nature can do.

Anyway, after the storm passed, h seemed to be in a better mood and wanted to go out and do something with all of us.  We went out and then came back home.  He was fine, until he got started talking about how nothing scares him.  It was mostly in regards to ghosts, etc, (I don't remember how we got on this topic) and I said no me neither.  Then he started to talk about a dream he had a long time ago, over a year, in which a few female family members of mine were in it and they were witches.  The conversation turned quickly from here.  I started to say, well we all have had dreams we wish were true, but they are just dreams and really don't mean anything.  He was like a dog on a bone and wanted to know what specifically I had dreamed.  I told him it didn't matter.  Let it go.  They are dreams after all.  He wouldn't.  Then he walked away, said he was going to watch a movie with the kids, and left me at the table.  I sat there a few moments, then got up to make a call I needed to make.  This made him very mad... . how dare I walk away, basically.  Even though he walked away.  I got off the phone and he had showered and dressed like he was leaving.  Then he started texting someone, obviously for my benefit as he left his phone to announce every text.  Then he started to try and continue to argue.  He wanted to know what the dream was, I can't even remember what all.  I told him to leave me alone.  Just leave me alone and he refused.  Finally, I said if he didn't stop I would call the police.  It was insanity. He was calling me a "witch" and the things he was saying were bordering on making absolutely no sense whatsoever.  It was like he was out of touch with reality for a while. I tried to disengage, for everyone's benefit.  He just wouldn't have it.  Finally, he stopped.  He tried again after the kids went to bed. He wanted to know what he had done  and he seemed really sincere in wanting to try and understand it all.  I explained a few things, but by this point my head was so numb. 

Yesterday morning all was calm and we had a wonderful day yesterday.  He wants to keep going to his therapy and see if things can get better.  I think he is starting to see he has a problem. 

I noticed a few things after Saturday.  I realized it's probably not the best thing for me to keep telling him I will call the police on him.  I just don't know what else to do when he's got my back up against the wall.  I hate to tell him that, mostly because the kids can hear, but it seems to be the only thing that makes him back off.  I need to think of a different strategy. 

Obviously, if he is willing to go to therapy I should step it up and make my best efforts with the communication techniques.  I think I have just been so angry and detached that I didn't really want to try anymore.  I realize that's not helping anything though. 

THEO41--I hear you about the kids. They mean everything to me and it kills me to know that they have to live this life too.  They have to deal with this stuff when they shouldn't have to.  I hate it for them.  It's a terrible situation because I feel and he has said as much, that if we are apart, he will not see the kids often.  Which, I guess, depending on how you see it, is good or bad.  I also am financially dependent on him for now, although I could make things work if I needed to, God willing.  It's just a terrible situation, with no real good outcome.  I know that they would be better off for us to be apart, if things continue to be so unstable with him in the picture.  I just want to give him a little more time and see if he can pull it together.

I hope things can remain calm for a while.  He was out of control on Saturday.  It was a climax a long time coming. This BPD thing is such a crazy beast.  It's terrifying to watch in full force. 

[Surnia]

I noticed a few things after Saturday.  I realized it's probably not the best thing for me to keep telling him I will call the police on him.  I just don't know what else to do when he's got my back up against the wall.  I hate to tell him that, mostly because the kids can hear, but it seems to be the only thing that makes him back off.  I need to think of a different strategy. 

This is scary! the police is your option when he gets physical!

Do you have options to leave earlier, when he is in such a bad mood? Kids in the car and visiting family or friends? I am concerned about your safety!

[allibaba]

Hi 4now,

I also reserve the threat of calling the police for the absolute most dire situations if I believe that I might be physically in danger.  I've done it before and I will do it again if necessary.

Definitely time for a new strategy.  Can you go outside?  Make sure you have a spare key because when I started walking away from my husband when he was angry he escalated to a new level of angry and started locking me out   Does he become verbally abusive towards the kids?  Do you need to take them with you?  I usually tell him that I am walking away from him before I say something I regret.  OR I tell him that I am DONE with the conversation because he has started calling me names.  I avoid calling it verbal abuse because that is a trigger for him.  I also make sure to establish where I am going and when I will be back.  Its so tough isn't it.  You want your relationship to work out.  You become more healthy.  You put your heart and soul into it and sometimes it really feels empty.

Hang in there.