Need to reach out -- I saw her.

[Beware of Junk Psychology...]

Ok, really struggling here and have to reach out to the boards again.

Some of you may remember me and my story but lots probably won't. I won't go into details as you can scroll through my previous posts if interested.

It's been 8 months since my ex dumped me, kicked me out of her house leaving me homeless and in a hotel and immediately went no contact with me -- I have not heard a single word from her since. I've been doing fairly well the past few months. Started to slowly get my life back together and have been feeling increasingly better and better. However... . yesterday for the very first time I saw her. She was getting out of her car in a parking lot -- she didn't see me. I'm trying to find words to describe how I felt at that moment but I just can't. Basically , I can throw away the last 8 months or work as it feels like I'm RIGHT back to square one -- it feels like the break up could have been yesterday. I felt numb all over, heart racing, uncontrollable shaking, feeling like I was going to vomit... . almost as if I saw a ghost.  I know that may sound silly as obviously I know she didn't die but it was like omg... . there she is, in the flesh, it's her, it's real... . she's still here.

Needless to say in completely devastated me and sent me spiralling almost complete out of control. I went home and crawled up in a ball on my couch begging someone, something to take the pain away. It was just horrible.  To make matters worse its shown me how in prisoned I am and how much power she still holds over me. Her sheer beauty absolutely captivated me. I've said it a million times before... . she was the most beautiful woman I have ever laid eyes on (even before I ever said a word to her) and she still is the most beautiful women I have ever laid eyes on. I feel the obsession of her and ruminations starting all over again. Once again... . might as well throw the last 8 months out the window.

I'm really frustrated. It shows that likely ill never be able to truly move on from her. I can't understand it though? I mean, if she was a good person and it ended normally I could maybe understand it as there might be a chance to re connect and that's why I felt that way? But what do I want? Why do I feel like this? It's not like I could EVER take her back. Even if she reached out and wanted to I've learned far to much both about this disorder, her past and the sheer number of lies she fed me to even consider it. NO ONE is capable of having a healthy relationship with her let alone just me. That scares me as even though I know all that she still has that much power over me.

I no longer have any hope. I'm giving up... .

[Dave44]

Ok, really struggling here and have to reach out to the boards again.

Some of you may remember me and my story but lots probably won't. I won't go into details as you can scroll through my previous posts if interested.

It's been 8 months since my ex dumped me, kicked me out of her house leaving me homeless and in a hotel and immediately went no contact with me -- I have not heard a single word from her since. I've been doing fairly well the past few months. Started to slowly get my life back together and have been feeling increasingly better and better. However... . yesterday for the very first time I saw her. She was getting out of her car in a parking lot -- she didn't see me. I'm trying to find words to describe how I felt at that moment but I just can't. Basically , I can throw away the last 8 months or work as it feels like I'm RIGHT back to square one -- it feels like the break up could have been yesterday. I felt numb all over, heart racing, uncontrollable shaking, feeling like I was going to vomit... . almost as if I saw a ghost.  I know that may sound silly as obviously I know she didn't die but it was like omg... . there she is, in the flesh, it's her, it's real... . she's still here.

Needless to say in completely devastated me and sent me spiralling almost complete out of control. I went home and crawled up in a ball on my couch begging someone, something to take the pain away. It was just horrible.  To make matters worse its shown me how in prisoned I am and how much power she still holds over me. Her sheer beauty absolutely captivated me. I've said it a million times before... . she was the most beautiful woman I have ever laid eyes on (even before I ever said a word to her) and she still is the most beautiful women I have ever laid eyes on. I feel the obsession of her and ruminations starting all over again. Once again... . might as well throw the last 8 months out the window.

I'm really frustrated. It shows that likely ill never be able to truly move on from her. I can't understand it though? I mean, if she was a good person and it ended normally I could maybe understand it as there might be a chance to re connect and that's why I felt that way? But what do I want? Why do I feel like this? It's not like I could EVER take her back. Even if she reached out and wanted to I've learned far to much both about this disorder, her past and the sheer number of lies she fed me to even consider it. NO ONE is capable of having a healthy relationship with her let alone just me. That scares me as even though I know all that she still has that much power over me.

I no longer have any hope. I'm giving up... .

[Surnia]

Hi Dave44

So sorry to hear about your encounter with your ex and how you feel now. 

I see a lot of distress and disappointment in your words which is totally normal. You came out of a very difficult rs, it was a shock, you were homeless. Now the first encounter, your body and your brain were alerted.

All this is in my eyes normal. I think it means in no way that the 8 month are useless, absolutely not. You did well and you can be proud of this. I had more than once encounters like this. After years the body goes in shock reaction. We cannot control this.

Take a deep breath.

[Dave44]

Thanks Surnia,

What do you mean by "after years the body goes in shock reaction"? Does this mean that this is always going to happen when I see her? If so I'll have to move, I'll just have no choice.

[Surnia]

No, not always. I had a ex, a poly-toxico who dumped me with a email. I saw him after about 3 years for the first time casually in the street. Shock! I was completely shocked but beside this I was fine. He was not in my life or thoughts or whatever anymore. I think the moment I saw him was also a moment to hold very strong anger. I was so angry about his lies, about money, about the end with the email.

I saw him again later, it was not such a shock anymore. You can learn to deal with it. It needs time and be patient with yourself. 

[Dave44]

Why is it that I am in SO much fear of seeing her every time I leave the house? The fear and anxiety is overwhelming until I'm back home. I'm really trying to understand this as in reality, she should be scared of seeing me... . shouldn't she? ESPECIALLY given the fact that she stole/wouldn't return my mothers Christmas tree who I lost to cancer 10 years ago -- one of the few physical items I had left of hers. Talk about cruel. Yet I'm the one in constant fear of seeing her?

Can someone please shed some light on this?

[seeking balance]

Why is it that I am in SO much fear of seeing her every time I leave the house? The fear and anxiety is overwhelming until I'm back home. I'm really trying to understand this as in reality, she should be scared of seeing me... . shouldn't she? ESPECIALLY given the fact that she stole/wouldn't return my mothers Christmas tree who I lost to cancer 10 years ago -- one of the few physical items I had left of hers. Talk about cruel. Yet I'm the one in constant fear of seeing her?

Can someone please shed some light on this?

Could be some PTSD going on - it is common in these relationship breakups.

Someone you trusted and loved literally destroyed you and left you - this is a trauma for you.

Seeing this person has pushed the trauma button and your reaction is being shown in your actions now... . some folks show it in anger, rage, isolation - simply your brain is trying to deal with the trauma.

So, what can you do?

Breathe - focus your mind on something stable and calm right now to regain your balance.

Do you happen to have a T who might be able to give you some PTSD tools?

The most important thing is to remember, you are ok - she cannot hurt you - learn to have your body relax - what helps you with this? 

[Dave44]

SB,

I should probably look into a T who specializes in PTSD.

It's just hard as I fully do understand it all now and I CERTAINLY don't want her back but yet it's like she has this incredible power over me where just simply seeing her sends me spiraling into depression.

I know you always stress to focus on us but I can not help but wonder why given what she has done (particularly what I described in my previous post here) she isn't worried about seeing me? I mean, that just baffles me. If any one here should feel like that when seeing the other it should be her!

[seeking balance]

I know you always stress to focus on us but I can not help but wonder why given what she has done (particularly what I described in my previous post here) she isn't worried about seeing me? I mean, that just baffles me. If any one here should feel like that when seeing the other it should be her!

She isn't worried about seeing you because she likely has shut out her behavior from her mind... . she has created a version of the story that justified her behavior... . it is her coping mechanism.

For example, my ex cheating and getting caught lying to me and the therapists - she said she did whatever was necessary to survive an abusive marriage (meaning ours)... . and she meant it.  My reality is not the same needless to say.  The BPD brain will create a reality to justify their actions.

Take a look at EMDR therapy for PTSD - my T was trained in this and did several sessions with me... . it helped with ruminating and panic attacks in the middle of the night.

Seeing our exes gives us a baseline where we are in our recovery - nothing more,nothing less.  8 months is not out the window, you simply see that there is some more recovery work to do - don't sell yourself short.

[Clearmind]

You have been given wonderful advice...

Looks/attractiveness is a hook and when we believe that someone is the most beautiful in the world followed by shattered and curled up on the couch speaks volumes about your own level of self worth. You are a beautiful person Dave with great kindness and compassion - when we have an "attractive/beautiful" person on our arm we feel valued/valuable because we don't feel that way about ourself.

I felt like cinderella at the ball when I was with my ex - the difference being, yes he was attractive however we were not at all compatible. I placed so much importance on looks, and how that made me feel rather than what this person presented as a long term prospective partner.

Maybe put the looks aside for a moment and think about compatibility and where your own perception of her maybe skewed because its easier and nicer for it to be steeped in fantasy thoughts - of what you want her to be rather than what she actually is.

So, Was Your Relationship Healthy?

A. Can you say what you like or admire about your partner?

B. Was your partner glad that you have other friends?

C. Was your partner happy about your accomplishments and ambitions?

D. Did your partner ask for and respect your opinions?

E. Did she/he really listen to you?

F. Did she/he talk about her/his feelings?

G. Did your partner have a good relationship with her/his family?

H. Did she/he have good friends?

I. Did she/he have interests besides you?

J. Did she/he take responsibility for her/his actions and not blame others for her/his failures?

Was Your Partner Healthy?

a. When your partner got angry does she/he break or throw things?

b. Did your partner lose her/his temper easily?

c. Was your partner jealous of your friends or family?

d. Did your partner expect to be told where you have been when you are not with her/him?

e. DId your partner think you are cheating on her/him if you talk or dance with someone else?

f. Did your partner drink or take drugs almost every day or go on binges?

g. Did she/he ridicule, make fun of, or put you down?

h. Did your partner think there are some situations in which it is okay for a man to hit a woman or a woman to hit a man?

i. Do you like yourself less than usual when you had been with your partner?

j. Did you ever find yourself afraid of your partner?

K. Did your partner respect your right to make decisions that affect your own life?

L. Were you and your partner friends? Best friends?

[Dave44]

Clearmind,

Thanks for taking the time to comment. I have answered all of the questions brought forward:

So, Was Your Relationship Healthy?

A. Can you say what you like or admire about your partner? - Other than her looks... . nothing really. That's being brutally honest but I can even remember thinking that way during the relationship. However she idealized me and fed right into my longing for a family type setting and exploited that to the fullest.

B. Was your partner glad that you have other friends? - We spent every moment together so the issue of spending time with friends never had a chance to come up.

C. Was your partner happy about your accomplishments and ambitions? - Not really. I mean she would say the odd comment here and there but she never took an interest in my hobbies or even really asked about them.

D. Did your partner ask for and respect your opinions? - No never. Occasionally she would ask me my opinion on a parenting matter with her kids which I often found a bit odd as she was the parent... . I've never had kids.

E. Did she/he really listen to you? - No.

F. Did she/he talk about her/his feelings? - no never!

G. Did your partner have a good relationship with her/his family? - No not at all. Matter of fact she hated her mother which I could never understand why.

H. Did she/he have good friends? - Nope, at 37 none at all. Just the odd acquaintance of one of the mothers from school that her kids might have a play date with.

I. Did she/he have interests besides you? - Not one. No hobbies or interests.

J. Did she/he take responsibility for her/his actions and not blame others for her/his failures? - Everything was everyone else's fault.

Was Your Partner Healthy? - Mentally? Clearly not! Physically? Yea, I would say so.

a. When your partner got angry does she/he break or throw things? - No.

b. Did your partner lose her/his temper easily? - Yes, she was VERY sensitive to any from of criticism.

c. Was your partner jealous of your friends or family? - Never really had a chance to see as like I mentioned we never spent anytime away from one another other than work. Was she jealous in general though? Oh yes! BIG TIME!

d. Did your partner expect to be told where you have been when you are not with her/him? - N/A as we spent all our spare time together.

e. DId your partner think you are cheating on her/him if you talk or dance with someone else? - Oh god yea. It was ridiculous. I couldn't even go into the bedroom if I needed to talk to someone on the phone say from the bank or something to get away from the noise of the kids without her thinking I was cheating. It was so bizarre.

f. Did your partner drink or take drugs almost every day or go on binges? - No. She was a mother of two neither of us drank or did drugs at all.

g. Did she/he ridicule, make fun of, or put you down? - You know, after a little bit she started making snide remarks about the way I dressed or how I styled my hair. At first I thought it was funny and that she was just giving me the gears so to speak. But after a while I started to see that even though she always said it in a "joking" manor I'm pretty sure she meant it. This made me feel very insecure and really confused me as the way I dressed and my hair where the two specific things that she said initially attracted her to me... . ?

h. Did your partner think there are some situations in which it is okay for a man to hit a woman or a woman to hit a man? - No not at all.

i. Do you like yourself less than usual when you had been with your partner? - Can't say I did no.

j. Did you ever find yourself afraid of your partner? - Physically no never. However I was always scared she was gonna leave me as she made it clear a few times how easily she could detach regardless of how much she said she "loved" me.

K. Did your partner respect your right to make decisions that affect your own life? - Not really.

L. Were you and your partner friends? Best friends? - We always said we were and I believe I was to her but as I look back she didn't care about me one single bit. Her actions at the end spoke MUCH louder than any of her words did during the relationship.

Now, with all that being said it's pretty clear that this was not only an unhealthy relationship but that she is clearly not a good person. Especially given the horrendous things she did at the end (like keeping my deceased mothers Christmas tree). The fact that I can see that and honestly don't want her back (how could I!) is the very thing that confuses me the most and makes me loose faith in myself when I feel like I do when I see her. I mean if she was a good person and the break up had been amicable and adult like with good communication then I could understand feeling like that when I saw her. The feeling would stem from having lost a really good person and because she's a good person there would always be that hope of the possibility of being with her again. THAT would make sense. However it's the total opposite! She's a TERRIBLE, EVIL person and not I or ANYONE could have or is going to be able to have a proper, healthy relationship with her. I should be laughing inside with an overwhelming sense of relief that I'm not with her when I see her. Not devastated to the core and crawling into a ball on my couch in utter pain. It's that very example that makes me want to give up hope. I NEED to know why she does that to me given everything I've just listed about her. Why? Why?... . WHY?

[Eric1]

So, Was Your Relationship Healthy?

A. Can you say what you like or admire about your partner? She was funny, pretty, outgoing, impulsive, and at times, very kind.

B. Was your partner glad that you have other friends? To a degree. But, I did end up distancing myself from some friends because she didn't really like them.

C. Was your partner happy about your accomplishments and ambitions? No.  She said my job is rubbish, even tho I earn good money & that I don't have ambitions.

D. Did your partner ask for and respect your opinions? She asked for it, but didnt respect it all the time. If he called me with problems with work, I had to be careful how i worded my anwers.

E. Did she/he really listen to you? At times.

F. Did she/he talk about her/his feelings? All the time. Apart from the breaking down of the relationship.

G. Did your partner have a good relationship with her/his family? Her mum and brother, yes.  Her dad, no.

H. Did she/he have good friends? Yes, but she critised them to me.

I. Did she/he have interests besides you? She did take up some fitness, but it didn't last long. Apart from that, she had no hobbies so to speak.

J. Did she/he take responsibility for her/his actions and not blame others for her/his failures? She blamed people all the time. Mainly me.

Was Your Partner Healthy?

a. When your partner got angry does she/he break or throw things? Yes. I've had a lamp thrown and me. She's also kicked, hit and bit me. She spat at me aswell.

b. Did your partner lose her/his temper easily? Very.

c. Was your partner jealous of your friends or family? If I did go to see friends an family, I would have to see her after giving her times. I felt rushed when I was with family because I knew I had to be back. They noticed this.

d. Did your partner expect to be told where you have been when you are not with her/him? If I wasn't seeing her or said I couldn't, then yes.

e. DId your partner think you are cheating on her/him if you talk or dance with someone else? She would always if I've cheated. She would also acuse me of flirting.

f. Did your partner drink or take drugs almost every day or go on binges? He would drink most days, and get very drunk mid week. I would aswell tho.

g. Did she/he ridicule, make fun of, or put you down? All the time. I was stupid, rubbish boyfriend, couldn't do anything right. She's questioned my clothes, hair, the way i talk. She's even told me that at times my penis can look small, but other times it looks massive. Just to add, I've never had any complaints or this being mentioned before.

h. Did your partner think there are some situations in which it is okay for a man to hit a woman or a woman to hit a man? She's hit me before. She knows its wrong. I've never hit her.

i. Do you like yourself less than usual when you had been with your partner? Yes. At times I was scared of her & i couldn't be myself because I was worried about what she would say or do.

j. Did you ever find yourself afraid of your partner? Yes.

K. Did your partner respect your right to make decisions that affect your own life? To a degree, yes. She was going to move into my house, which i own.  I'd only just moved in but she was already demanding what I needed to do and change for her to be happy living here.

L. Were you and your partner friends? Best friends? At times, yes. She would confide everything to me & we would really make each other laugh.  I've honestly never felt a connection like it. We have the same humour, music taste.  We're both outgoing socially. I have got angry with her, but it felt like i had my back in a corner.

For all this,and even when I found out she had been texting another man & that she said to me before that she wonders what it would be like being in another relationship with someone, I love her.

[Clearmind]

Eric, I will come to your list throughout the night…hang tight!

Dave,

Lets positively now frame this.

Wouldn’t it be wonderful to have a life partner that does admire and respect you? That asks how your day was and that gives you a hug when you need one just to let you know that everything will be OK. Someone who can be open with her feelings without hitting over the head with them. Someone who you can snuggle up on the couch with a watch a movie without that feeling of what is she going to say next or berate you for next. Someone who doesn’t ask who you spoke with and what you said because you trust each other. Someone who doesn’t sit in front of you and text other men while you constantly worry about what is happening. Someone you don’t have to walk on eggshells with. Someone who has similar interests yet permits you to have your own interests with your mates. Someone you can call and say “Honey, I am having a drink with the boys and will be home before dinner”  and her be OK with that and say “Honey, you have a wonderful time”.

Do you see the mega difference! You were not living my friend you were only just hanging on by a thread to a very shaky relationship. We die at say 85 – Start to live not just survive.

This speaks volumes huh?

So, Was Your Relationship Healthy?

A. Can you say what you like or admire about your partner? - Other than her looks... . nothing really. That's being brutally honest but I can even remember thinking that way during the relationship. However she idealized me and fed right into my longing for a family type setting and exploited that to the fullest.

B. Was your partner glad that you have other friends? - We spent every moment together so the issue of spending time with friends never had a chance to come up. – translation: you isolated one another so there were no external influences - this oozes lack of  trust. Trust once broken cannot be fixed – even by you

C. Was your partner happy about your accomplishments and ambitions? - Not really. I mean she would say the odd comment here and there but she never took an interest in my hobbies or even really asked about them. – isn’t that a shame coming from a supposed partner in life

I think you get the picture…

D. Did your partner ask for and respect your opinions? - No never. Occasionally she would ask me my opinion on a parenting matter with her kids which I often found a bit odd as she was the parent... . I've never had kids.

E. Did she/he really listen to you? - No.

F. Did she/he talk about her/his feelings? - no never!

G. Did your partner have a good relationship with her/his family? - No not at all. Matter of fact she hated her mother which I could never understand why.

H. Did she/he have good friends? - Nope, at 37 none at all. Just the odd acquaintance of one of the mothers from school that her kids might have a play date with.

I. Did she/he have interests besides you? - Not one. No hobbies or interests.

J. Did she/he take responsibility for her/his actions and not blame others for her/his failures? - Everything was everyone else's fault.

Was Your Partner Healthy? - Mentally? Clearly not! Physically? Yea, I would say so.

a. When your partner got angry does she/he break or throw things? - No.

b. Did your partner lose her/his temper easily? - Yes, she was VERY sensitive to any from of criticism.

c. Was your partner jealous of your friends or family? - Never really had a chance to see as like I mentioned we never spent anytime away from one another other than work. Was she jealous in general though? Oh yes! BIG TIME!

d. Did your partner expect to be told where you have been when you are not with her/him? - N/A as we spent all our spare time together.

e. DId your partner think you are cheating on her/him if you talk or dance with someone else? - Oh god yea. It was ridiculous. I couldn't even go into the bedroom if I needed to talk to someone on the phone say from the bank or something to get away from the noise of the kids without her thinking I was cheating. It was so bizarre.

f. Did your partner drink or take drugs almost every day or go on binges? - No. She was a mother of two neither of us drank or did drugs at all.

g. Did she/he ridicule, make fun of, or put you down? - You know, after a little bit she started making snide remarks about the way I dressed or how I styled my hair. At first I thought it was funny and that she was just giving me the gears so to speak. But after a while I started to see that even though she always said it in a "joking" manor I'm pretty sure she meant it. This made me feel very insecure and really confused me as the way I dressed and my hair where the two specific things that she said initially attracted her to me... . ?

h. Did your partner think there are some situations in which it is okay for a man to hit a woman or a woman to hit a man? - No not at all.

i. Do you like yourself less than usual when you had been with your partner? - Can't say I did no.

j. Did you ever find yourself afraid of your partner? - Physically no never. However I was always scared she was gonna leave me as she made it clear a few times how easily she could detach regardless of how much she said she "loved" me.

K. Did your partner respect your right to make decisions that affect your own life? - Not really.

L. Were you and your partner friends? Best friends? - We always said we were and I believe I was to her but as I look back she didn't care about me one single bit. Her actions at the end spoke MUCH louder than any of her words did during the relationship.

Now, with all that being said it's pretty clear that this was not only an unhealthy relationship but that she is clearly not a good person. Especially given the horrendous things she did at the end (like keeping my deceased mothers Christmas tree). The fact that I can see that and honestly don't want her back (how could I!) is the very thing that confuses me the most and makes me loose faith in myself when I feel like I do when I see her. I mean if she was a good person and the break up had been amicable and adult like with good communication then I could understand feeling like that when I saw her. The feeling would stem from having lost a really good person and because she's a good person there would always be that hope of the possibility of being with her again. THAT would make sense. However it's the total opposite! She's a TERRIBLE, EVIL person and not I or ANYONE could have or is going to be able to have a proper, healthy relationship with her. I should be laughing inside with an overwhelming sense of relief that I'm not with her when I see her. Not devastated to the core and crawling into a ball on my couch in utter pain. It's that very example that makes me want to give up hope. I NEED to know why she does that to me given everything I've just listed about her. Why? Why?... . WHY?

If one or more people in a relationship are independently unhealthy the relationship must be unhealthy. Evil – not so much my friend – this is anger talking and that’s OK….when we begin to look for other answers as to why we got into this mess – we tend to relinquish the anger.

She is a good person who is deeply disordered – her disorder will rule you and the relationship. She was not able to contribute to the relationship, yet, you had high expectations that she must. But she couldn’t. So, this says a lot about your expectations and perception of a disordered person. Can a child be expected to have an adult conversation and look at consequences, take personal responsibility – No! This is what you were asking of her…this is what I mean about changing your perception of who this person was. She was not who you wanted her to be.

We are devastated because this relationship break up has sparked our own abandonment issues. We have some of our own unresolved issues from before we met our ex’s.

[Eric1]

Clearmind, Did you have chance to go through the list?

[bb12]

Hi Dave

Let me start by telling you that it does get better. And not just better than now and the pain you are in. I am talking about better than ever before in your life.

I am 2 years out. 14 months NC. And like you, mine discarded me brutally and then went silent. As some have suggested on here, the effects are equivalent to post-traumatic stress. I was stuck in a bubble of fear and confusion for a solid 12 months. My body was activated and I had a heaviness in my chest and throat I couldn't shake. The effects of this stuff can be very physical and I believe these physical cues are to blame for how long we can be stuck. How can we feel better if our body is heavy with grief and is constantly reminding us of what happened, even when we are not thinking about it intellectually?

For me, only time helped reduce the physical symptoms. But the work I did on myself as I waited for the peptides in my body to die down, is what got me to the amazing space I inhabit now.

Instead of letting the physical stuff remind me of my ex, I flipped it and convinced myself that my own trapped inner child is who was demanding my attention. I radically accepted that my ex was not well and never would be. Might have loved me like he said. Might not have... . and it may all have been a game rote-learned and repeated for years before my arrival. I will never know.

But when I stopped thinking of my ex and used the physical cues to remember that the work on myself was not finished, I kept exploring. First BPD/NPD. Then people who attract them (Codependents/ pw Poor Self-Esteem). And that set me on a journey of improving my relationship with myself; silencing my inner critic; practising mindfulness and staying present in each moment; learning not to be "other directed" and get my approval from within; and exploring who I am attracted to and why.

At the 12 month mark, the physical pull abated. The grief was gone. Sure i was still confused but the FOG was lifted and I was processing things in real time. The detached protector went away and I felt safe enough to trust myself again.

My point is this: 8 months is not a long time in the scheme of things. You were abused and trauma comes with that. But don't give up. I now operate on a level I never though possible. Shame, guilt, and second-guessing my actions and decisions don't exist for me now.

When you stop being a victim to it. When you stop letting a mentally ill person's behaviour define you, you can get to an amazing point in your recovery where you are not just better - you are the best you've ever been. And you are thankful for all of the abuse, because you had subconsciously been wanting to get to this point for a long time!

Hang in there Dave. Don't give up. Let go of fighting against what's happened. Flow downstream with it and plan your amazing comeback

Bb12

[Clearmind]

So, Was Your Relationship Healthy?

A. Can you say what you like or admire about your partner? She was funny, pretty, outgoing, impulsive, and at times, very kind.

B. Was your partner glad that you have other friends? To a degree. But, I did end up distancing myself from some friends because she didn't really like them. This is very common in a BPD/non relationship. The relationships are enmeshed where neither you provide one another with space – enmeshment is more co-dependent relating rather than healthy relating. Enmeshed r/s cannot be sustained and we burn out

C. Was your partner happy about your accomplishments and ambitions? No.  She said my job is rubbish, even tho I earn good money & that I don't have ambitions. Ouch, that has to hurt Eric and having a supportive partner who honors our achievements.  Put downs in relationships should be a deal breaker. Maybe dig down as to why you thought that was OK at the time

D. Did your partner ask for and respect your opinions? She asked for it, but didnt respect it all the time. If he called me with problems with work, I had to be careful how i worded my anwers. walking on eggshells is not fun and shows a lack of maturity. Its impossible to have a mature relationship with an immature person.

E. Did she/he really listen to you? At times.

F. Did she/he talk about her/his feelings? All the time. Apart from the breaking down of the relationship. talked about his feelings and didn’t ask about yours?

G. Did your partner have a good relationship with her/his family? Her mum and brother, yes.  Her dad, no.

H. Did she/he have good friends? Yes, but she critised them to me.Eric, if a person criticizes people then its possible they will do this to you too in time. Look at the actions – maybe keep that under your hat as a red flag for the next relationship

I. Did she/he have interests besides you? She did take up some fitness, but it didn't last long. Apart from that, she had no hobbies so to speak.

J. Did she/he take responsibility for her/his actions and not blame others for her/his failures? She blamed people all the time. Mainly me.Not taking responsibility is also not being accountable. Accountability is paramount for a healthy relationship

At this point it maybe worth reflecting on what drew you to this person if the major aspects of a healthy relationship were lacking.

That being:

- Respect

- Trust and support

- Honesty and accountability

- Shared responsibility

- Economic partnership

- Negotiation and fairness

- Non-threatening behavior

Was Your Partner Healthy?

a. When your partner got angry does she/he break or throw things? Yes. I've had a lamp thrown and me. She's also kicked, hit and bit me. She spat at me aswell.

b. Did your partner lose her/his temper easily? Very.

c. Was your partner jealous of your friends or family? If I did go to see friends an family, I would have to see her after giving her times. I felt rushed when I was with family because I knew I had to be back. They noticed this.

d. Did your partner expect to be told where you have been when you are not with her/him? If I wasn't seeing her or said I couldn't, then yes.

e. DId your partner think you are cheating on her/him if you talk or dance with someone else? She would always if I've cheated. She would also acuse me of flirting.

f. Did your partner drink or take drugs almost every day or go on binges? He would drink most days, and get very drunk mid week. I would aswell tho.

g. Did she/he ridicule, make fun of, or put you down? All the time. I was stupid, rubbish boyfriend, couldn't do anything right. She's questioned my clothes, hair, the way i talk. She's even told me that at times my penis can look small, but other times it looks massive. Just to add, I've never had any complaints or this being mentioned before.this is controlling and not to be confused with love

h. Did your partner think there are some situations in which it is okay for a man to hit a woman or a woman to hit a man? She's hit me before. She knows its wrong. I've never hit her.Hitting is never OK. It’s abusive. Often when a partner hits us in a relationship we internalize and believe its because we did something wrong

i. Do you like yourself less than usual when you had been with your partner? Yes. At times I was scared of her & i couldn't be myself because I was worried about what she would say or do.

j. Did you ever find yourself afraid of your partner? Yes.

K. Did your partner respect your right to make decisions that affect your own life? To a degree, yes. She was going to move into my house, which i own.  I'd only just moved in but she was already demanding what I needed to do and change for her to be happy living here.

L. Were you and your partner friends? Best friends? At times, yes. She would confide everything to me & we would really make each other laugh.  I've honestly never felt a connection like it. We have the same humour, music taste.  We're both outgoing socially. I have got angry with her, but it felt like i had my back in a corner.

For all this,and even when I found out she had been texting another man & that she said to me before that she wonders what it would be like being in another relationship with someone, I love her.

Eric, I would say that your answers speak volumes. The point of this exercise is to put the emotions aside for one moment and really look at the facts. Those hard facts that get so misconstrued amongst the fantasy thoughts of who you want your partner to be for you.

We need to be mindful of who they actually they – the good and the bad and begin to move past the idea that we were to blame for their behavior.

If you want to start to have a think about what a healthy relationship is and who a healthy person is then take your questions and flip them – and – start to ask why you were drawn to the dysfunction. 

[Dave44]

Bb12 thank you so much for your kind words -- I really needed to hear that right now.

Clearmind, I do see your points and yea I SO want all those things in a partner/ relationship. However I HAVE had all those things in previous healthy relationships and while the relationships were great they didn't feel anywhere close to how this one made me feel. It was like nothing before. So the though of having to sacrifice that amazing feeling for a "healthy" relationship leaves me feeling deflated and depressed.

As for her not being evil. I have to respectfully disagree with you on that. If keeping my mothers Christmas tree (who I lost to cancer) which is one of the last physical items I have left of hers and certainly the most sentimental is not evil... . then what is it?

[Clearmind]

Dave the reason it felt great is because you mirrored the most ideal part of yourself back at each other - cannot be sustained. Question yourself as to why you equate intensity with love.

[Dave44]

The reason it felt so great is because I mirrored the most ideal part of myself back at each other? I'm trying to understand this but I'm not quite sure I get it. Could you explain that a but more or even give an example?