what pulled me in.

[mitchell16]

today focus is on me. Why, how, did I get drawn into this madness. Im in my mid forties, professional person, have been in the same career for over 20 years. Well respected in my personal life and professional life. and the only thing that I can think of it was like the perfect storm. everything lined up at once. I was just seeing some clear from a battleing a life threating diease, my wife and I had just seperated and divorcing. Which I didnt want. I had started at a new place of employement in the same field but diffrent companies. Im in good shape, workout several times a week, make a good living, own my own home, never had a problem getting attractive women. But I thought this women was the one of my dreams. beautiful, smart, educated, exciting and very interesting to talk to. we could talk for hours. and then my life got turned upside down.

I cant figure out for the life me how this happened and why it took me so long to get out and still have trouble. After so many incidents. Ive nver been through anything like this. I have seen a T but the main focus at that time was us and making it work with her and how to communicate with her. But after trying everything I can do to make it work. I have to walk away. But in order to heal, I have to figure how I got here. and that exscaping me. Maybe becasue of my health problems and divorce I was wounded more then I thought and that she was able to pick up on that and use it. How does a person track it down and figure it out. Any suggestions

[ObiRedKenobi]

For me my ex filled a deep desire I had, a semi normal healthy family. I went back to the beginning of our relationship. Went through why I was attracted to her, why I let her start pushing my boundries and then why I let her escalate things. I stopped looking at what she did and asked myself what was it that I was looking for that was so important that I would tollerate bad behavior.

It wasn't healthy at all, but she provided what I thought I wanted and wanted bad enough to overlook problems and things just got worse from there to the point where what I wanted wasn't worth the price I was paying. I'm no expert but I've always heard in my work find a need and fill it. That seems to be the place to start as a non in a BPD relationship. What did we need or want so bad that we would pay just about any cost to fill that.

[bpdspell]

Most of our willingness to participate in the BPD dance usually points to our Family of Origin Issues.  

I too am accomplished, educated and have experienced tons of life success... . however... . I now realize that many of my trappings were simply overcompensation for how I really felt about myself due to my unstable childhood. Both of my parents were emotionally immature, neglectful and they fought often. My father drank and my mother repressed. And I was sandwiched between all of that dysfunction.

When I moved out at 18... . I thought I had finally escaped the madness... . only to realize in my thirties I had been carrying this baggage with me all along.

Not everyone has a bad childhood or abusive parents... . but sometimes our parents worked too long or were emotionally neglectful or not nurturing enough.  Or maybe people pleasing or being an approval addict was modeled to us as children making us ripe for the BPD narcissistic dance.

My BPDexbf was the perfect combination of my victim blaming emotionally disconnected mother and my schizophrenic controlling, jealous and manipulative father. It was love instantly because I longed to be accepted and loved by my parents.

It is a deep void that cannot ever be filled when your parents let you down and fail you as parents. I'm still recovering from accepting this truth and making peace with it. But our pain usually goes deeper than our ex's. The pain is sub-level deep and usually comes from unhealed wounds from our childhoods.

Spell

[shieldedheart]

Boy does your situation and question seem familiar.  The overall answer is it probably happened gradually.  I know mine did.  I was successful, established, respected, loved and had life figured out.  I was going through a divorce, one I  also didn't want, then boom, here comes the young and pretty BPD.  My guard was down and she asked all kinds of questions about my life from family to ex-wife questions.

I think that's it though.  They find things to boost you up to put you up on the highest pedastal ever.  It feels good, much better than feeling unapprciated by the stbEX wife right?  Then, gradually they bring you down to their level.  Instead of flying at 35,000 feet, you're at 27,000.  The adoration gets mixed up in some fights where she feels down or somehow sees a flaw in you.  You'll do anything to show her that you are the knight in shining armor that she met.  But, it's not meeting her standard and now she has some problems you may be able to solve.  You try like heck to solve them but more and more crop up.  You put your needs and problems on the back burner to focus on her seemingly easy issues to handle.  Once one fire gets put out another mysteriously pops up.  Sometimes the same fire starts over and over again but you're there to show her that you can do it together.  She wants to give up but now you're in it to win it.  Forgetting your problems 'temporarily', her issues and her are your focus.  Soon, you're throwing all of your energy and money into it to solve problems and keep it calm.  Afterall, she can't do it on her own anymore.  All of this happens over a long period of time.  Then, one day you decided to do something for yourself.  Something you need support on.  a new job, a new house... . a family crisis.  And you realize she is still mired in her issues.  Now you are buried emotionally and financially!  No energy to end it and no energy to solve a thing.  That does not please the BPD person.  You are 'failing' them by having to deal with life.  Your opinion of yourself does not match theirs at all anymore.  Do you try to get them to match again?  Or do you try to end it ?  Even after 'all you've been though'.  You're fully invested just like the rest of your life is.

BPDs attract successful people also.  If anything, it makes us more vulnerable because we are wired to make things work.  You are not alone Mitchell.  Not by a longshot.  Read, study and research this until you can't read anymore.  You'll see it is possible to get out.  You will be battered but at least you can move on.

[winston72]

You nailed this post, Shieldedheart... . I am speechless.  But, you just nailed it.  Thank you.

[WXYZ]

I’ll second that – you nailed it Shieldedheart.

One day you need some kind of support and what do you get? Absolutely nothing - it’s

all about them.  That’s when I began to realise I was ‘watching a fish swimming around

in a fish bowl’.  I think she sensed I was not particularly interested in having a relationship

with a gold fish – and that’s when the absolute lunacy began …

[Learning_curve74]

They find things to boost you up to put you up on the highest pedastal ever.  It feels good, much better than feeling unapprciated by the stbEX wife right?  Then, gradually they bring you down to their level.  Instead of flying at 35,000 feet, you're at 27,000.  The adoration gets mixed up in some fights where she feels down or somehow sees a flaw in you.  You'll do anything to show her that you are the knight in shining armor that she met.  But, it's not meeting her standard and now she has some problems you may be able to solve.  You try like heck to solve them but more and more crop up.  You put your needs and problems on the back burner to focus on her seemingly easy issues to handle.  Once one fire gets put out another mysteriously pops up.  Sometimes the same fire starts over and over again but you're there to show her that you can do it together.  She wants to give up but now you're in it to win it.  Forgetting your problems 'temporarily', her issues and her are your focus.  Soon, you're throwing all of your energy and money into it to solve problems and keep it calm.  Afterall, she can't do it on her own anymore.  All of this happens over a long period of time.  Then, one day you decided to do something for yourself.  Something you need support on.  a new job, a new house... . a family crisis.  And you realize she is still mired in her issues.  Now you are buried emotionally and financially!  No energy to end it and no energy to solve a thing.  That does not please the BPD person.  You are 'failing' them by having to deal with life.  Your opinion of yourself does not match theirs at all anymore.  Do you try to get them to match again?  Or do you try to end it ?  Even after 'all you've been though'.  You're fully invested just like the rest of your life is.

Wow. It's scary how much this describes what I've been feeling. ugh  :'(

[charred]

For me my ex filled a deep desire I had, a semi normal healthy family. I went back to the beginning of our relationship. Went through why I was attracted to her, why I let her start pushing my boundries and then why I let her escalate things. I stopped looking at what she did and asked myself what was it that I was looking for that was so important that I would tollerate bad behavior.

It wasn't healthy at all, but she provided what I thought I wanted and wanted bad enough to overlook problems and things just got worse from there to the point where what I wanted wasn't worth the price I was paying. I'm no expert but I've always heard in my work find a need and fill it. That seems to be the place to start as a non in a BPD relationship. What did we need or want so bad that we would pay just about any cost to fill that.

I think it is unconditional love... . the kind a parent (mother in particular) should have for a young child. That off the wall observation comes from my own experience... . my mom is a great person, but not a good mother... her own mother died when she was 5 (in childbirth.) My mom is cold as ice with kids, probably traumatic, as she mostly had to raise her two younger sisters. So fast forward to me getting hooked up with a pwBPD... . my exBPDgf, I met her, she seemed perfect, blew so much smoke it seemed like unconditional love, she seemed perfect... . wanted to marry her, have kids, etc... . and she switched to being a demon spawn of the devil and abruptly dumped me without explanation. I was devastated, left town, my business, family, everything. 27 yrs later she contacts me, I hear her voice and 100% of the feelings were back... . inexplicable... been dumped by many women (dumped quite a few myself and couldn't understand what made her any different.)

She told me she was diagnosed BPD in graduate school (she is bright and disordered.) She also told me I had attachment issues, which I doubted... . but when looking for answers, looked in to, by reading about 5 books on attachment, starting with "Getting Attached"... . and they explained it fairly well. When you get plenty of unconditional love as a little one, you are confident and normal and not needy typically, if you are completely ignored 100% you probably die, but if you are somewhat tended too, but not really well attached you can become avoidantly attached (or any of a number of other ways)... but the descriptions of avoidant attachment fit me. The kind of family you grew up in is the model you use to look for "true love"... . its what you think it is at a super low level... so you respond with giant sparks to someone with just the right kind of disordered background. In my case that was "the abandoned child" pwBPD... . and I became the understanding child... the one that had to understand why... I excelled in school, in sports, in business... . dated a lot, made money... . and none of it seemed to matter or fill that void, then I met my pwBPD and she ignored my boundaries, got close to me like no one could, and seemed to make me feel like I could take on the world... . then pulled the rug out from under me leaving me for dead.

The thing is... if we have a hole where the unconditionally loving parent should be, and we put the pwBPD in that position... . it is a primary relationship position... and that is what is different. That is why we are crushed when we lose them, and why the betrayal by them is worse, and why the depression is so deep from them... . it is like losing a parent, not a girlfriend or boyfriend.

Because we put them on the pedestal and treat them like they are the unconditional loving parent we crave... . we suspend some of our judgement... deferring to them, we ignore many  , we rationalize that they are right even though they do clearly irrational/wrong things... . and we let our self esteem be tied to their approval/disapproval. The sex starts out great but after a bit there are some off undertones to it that don't make sense... . well it makes more sense if you see it the way I do now (unfortunately)... and the worse thing... we take more and more abuse over time. It takes a great deal to take our blinders off and see the pwBPD for the disordered person they are and get them off that pedestal we put them on that they clearly didn't deserve.

When we subject everything they say to requiring proof and being true... and honest... . it is the end. They bolt, they have a 3 yr olds tantrum, and we have our own horrible time making sense of it all till it gels that we fell for an emotional infant... who we acted like was the wonderful mother we never had... and it all didn't work out.   

That is some serious reality to accept... but its not what you will hear from everyone, but my reason for saying I think it is the case... after 27 yrs I could care less about anyone else I dated and there were many... . but she was 100% back instantly... . that doesn't happen with a normal r/s. It does with a primary r/s. Kids reunited with parents many years later... . its 100% instant... and I have the shattered marriage with a divorce, and all kinds of losses to reassure me it wasn't normal, but it was as strong as if no time had passed. So the neediness they have, responds to some neediness we have and makes this horrible perfect storm of a BPD r/s that leaves a path of destruction that has resulted in over 75,000 members and 2 Million messages being on these boards... . its that common/strong.

[bpdspell]

@Charred

All I can say is wow. Your post is immensely helpful and life saving.

Spell

[charred]

@Charred

All I can say is wow. Your post is immensely helpful and life saving.

Spell

You are welcome... I wish my view was at least more widely discussed... (as I came to it by horrible experience combined with the process of elimination... nothing else fit the facts)... . and would much rather have read about it 25 yrs ago and maybe avoided the second go round with her.

The primary attachment theory, just rings true with my experience, and with what I know I did (putting her on a pedestal, deferring to her on moral issues... taking undeserved abuse from her, feeling weird about sex with her after a while... . etc.) Making sense of it has helped me to start accepting reality, both that she is disordered... not perfect, not even a good person, and to accept that I have issues going back before her that need to be dealt with.

[ObiRedKenobi]

I can't really dissagree with the primary attachment theory. I think a different spin can be taken on it though. I had a great family growing up (imediate and extended family). My friends I've known since middle school and I'm reaching the point where I've known them greater than half my life. I was best man in most of their weddings. Even in my professional world the connections I choose to maintain are really good people and I'll go to bat for them any day. They have also gone to bat for me. My current job is because of professional relationships I've maintained over the years. 

Thinking about it I almost think I've chosen to surround myself with people that I can consider almost like family. When I got involved with my ex it seemed like she was the epitomy of everything I look for in people I like to surround myself with. Looking at how things have played out however has really caused me to question my judgement and motives. Is it right to go about my relationships the way I do or does it make me a target for some? I don't know if it has any merrit but to me its an interesting thought.

[mitchell16]

thanks all, for great feedback. Mine told me she wanted unconditional love from her SO. I gave it but at the same time that doesnt mean everything they do is acceptable behavior. like i said I met mine at a very low period in my life. I as going though divorce, severe health problems. We talked and now I relaize that she was just picking me and mirroring me. Now I can see it plain as day. BUt back then I thought we was just commincating, something I had never had in a relationship before. I thought she just found me interesting and she would say so. But looking back, my ideas, morals and my plans and dreams became hers so to speak. I feel like a victim of a con artist. She told me everything I wanted to hear and then topped it off with great sex with a beautiful women. I was hooked. Even when she started showing her true colors, she was able to twist it so convincingly that in my mind she had to be right. I think in my mind she was everything I thought I wanted that I could " change my ways" and make it work. Of course the only problem with that is you cant change what you are not doing, you cant change what someone else is pecieving your are doing wrong. I found that when that happened she would only find something else. I do not feel like this was on purpose or malicious on her behalf. BUt still it is impossible to live in or manage. What does make me angry with her is at times I do know she relizes something is wrong and she works in the therapy field. So why not get help.

I think she just had perfect timing, she caught me when I was emotionally vulnerable. Which made me a easy target. I have never allowed myself be taken advange of, I always spoke my mind with people, I was always polite and mindful of their feelings but I would voice myself. I had never hestated to walk away from a bad relationship as soon as it started showing. BUt when i divorced I blamed myself for alot of things that went wrong, I worked alot, because of the health problems I had become emotionally and physically unavailable, I made my wife feel like second best alot, which she didnt deserve. She had enough and walked away. After she left I reliaze my mistakes. I promised myself that I wouldnt make those mistake again with someone I loved. I would learn to be more flexible, caring, emotional, supportive. not so self centered. my exBPDgf had asked me why my marraige had ended and I told her in the honymoon phase. I took full responsiblity, I can remember us having that conversation. I think she was able to manipulate it all. Which Like I said made me an easy target. Now, Im trying to get myself back and Im finding it hard to turn it all around. myexBPD just texted me yesturday, first contact she has made in over a week. Im really struggled with staying nc but so far have been successful. but it really make me feel bad that I have to act like that.

[shieldedheart]

I’ll second that – you nailed it Shieldedheart.

One day you need some kind of support and what do you get? Absolutely nothing - it’s

all about them.  That’s when I began to realise I was ‘watching a fish swimming around

in a fish bowl’.  I think she sensed I was not particularly interested in having a relationship

with a gold fish – and that’s when the absolute lunacy began …

Thanks guys.  It's not hard to relate to most of the posts like mitchell16s is it?  The gradual twisting of situations that equates to a boa constrictor slowly positioning itself around its prey, so slow that it has no idea what is happening until it's too late.

BPDs are infinitely patient when it comes to manipulation.  I think, from researching and experience, it's because it is part of their personality.  They do it without thought, like breathing or blinking.  Partly, because like those actions it is part of their survival instinct.  They do it not for pleasure but to distribute their pain away from themselves to make it more manageable.  In a normal relationship, this act happens in short burst but the person who distributes the pain eventually takes it back as to not overwhelm their partner.

Mitchell16, your post is very introspective and that is a good thing.  You admit to mistakes and seem committed to not making them again.  That is no easy task and is very noble.  Your ex seems to have the mirroring skill down perfectly.  To any successful person, mimicry is the ultimate form of flattery.  She had you hook, line and sinker.  Don’t dwell on it too much.  Because looking at what you want to fix starts with yourself but it doesn’t have to stay in the negative.

One thing that helps me is to stop wondering why they don’t get help.  The answer is simple in most cases.  They don’t want help.  Why would they?  Sure they feel miserable 24x7 but they tend to get what they want.  My therapist gave the example of a toddler who cries for an hour straight until it gets a sundae for dinner.  It was all worth it.  Their payoff is usually pleasurable.  The answer of “No” is seen as a challenge or an invalidation of sorts.  Our payoff is usually some sort of sacrifice for them.  Treating them like we want to be treated without reciprocation.

Keep focusing on yourself.  Remember, she is an ex for a reason, many reasons.  So, when you see that text message pop up filling you with ruminating thoughts, trump them with your determination to succeed.  Afterall, it is who you were before you met her.  Let your heart be your compass and your brain be your wheel.

[GreenMango]

Codependecy, ego, and unreasonable expectations/fantasies are a sure fire way to get into a relationship like this.  Add any family history and its a good mix.

These things don't go away when the relationship ends.  They can get you into another relationship like this though 

Mitchell what's the plan forward?

[mitchell16]

well I plan on continuing to see my t. and try to get to the bottom of this. I know that I do have some codependecy issues based on family history. BUt i guess it took this relationship to wake up those issues, since i have never experienced it to this level before. I never felt is was about my ego but wont rule that out. When she told me about her issues I never felt like I could fix them but I did feel like If I showed support, trust worthness, love and patience that it would smooth out. At at times it did to only resurface again. or her set the playing field up so that it was impossible to achieve it. One example was after my divorce one her favorite things to throw up in my face was I never dated anybody but her after my divorce. She would always bring this up. Never mind that I didnt get married until I was almost 30 years old and had dated plenty of women prior to that marraige. Im just a person who knows what they want, when my mind is made up no reason to shop around. But anyway she broke up and told me that I needed to date other women. I didnt want to but after about 2 or 3 weeks apart. I asked a girl out, nothing heavy, we went to a movie one night and out eat another. I stopped dating this person, it just didnt click. about week later me and the ex got back togther. She wanted to know if I dated while we were apart. I told her yes but it was her I loved. of course according to her If I loved her I couldnt went out on date. so whatever you do, you will be wrong. I only told her about going on that date because she made it out to such a big issue that I hadnt dated other women and also because she kept asking and I dont like to lie. plus I live in a small area and people did see me out with the other person. I didnt want her to hear about it and think I lied because according to her if she ever caught me in a lie it would kick in her trust and abondement issues and she could never staqy in the relationship. according to her. but true to BPD she changes the rules whenever it suits them. The only thing I can think of on how to stay out of this relationship is NC, its worked before I just didnt stick to it. Go back to my T, explain where Im at in my mind. Ive asked him before how to get over the relationship and he said strictly NC but I never asked him how I got here, for us to explore. maybe this will help me move foreward.

[GreenMango]

Ego isn't always I'm a hero watch me save this fool.  Sometimes its an if I do this, this and that then I'm loveable.  Or If I can attain the unattainable then I'm worthy.  <---- that last one is particularly nasty to do oneself because it's setting oneself up in an unloveable or unworthy self fulfilling prophecy.  Ego isn't always flashy, sometimes it's the vulnerable cousin of self conscious vanity.

Nothing wrong with being honest - honesty is important.  That question wasn't about you seeing other people as much as it was about testing.  The important lesson in that was the response - do you want to be with someone who tests you or puts you in no win situations?  And how to recognize those signs.

There's a theme here ... .

[jippolito1969]

I relate so much to the points people are making here. The attachment aspect of things is right on, and is also something I have been thinking about for a long time. My ex clearly filled this void for me, or at least it felt like she did. It was so intense, that it actually manifested itself into a mommy/teenage boy role play dynamic sexually, as well as theories my ex had about our past soul mate connection and her being my mother in a past life.

Because the connection felt so deep, I couldn't help but believe this story. In the story, she said I was a young boy, and she was a single mother (set sometime back in the 1800's or something) and she had to leave town for work for a few weeks, only to return to me having died of some desease, like Yellow Fever or something. She said the woman who cared took for me while she was gone, said I kept crying out for her on my death bed, and that this is how things were left karmically between us, only to have us attempt to resolve it in this life time, which we have been unable to do.

I have been out of the relationship now about 5 months, although we only cut ties completely about 2 weeks ago. Prior to this, she would ignore me or a while and then contact me, we would engage, maybe spend an evening together, get into another hugh and terrible fight, and then not talk about for a week or so.

Two weeks ago, she finally decided to terminate all contact, at least for now, and also started a new relationship with a guy who she put up to calling me just so I knew they were dating. It was horrible. I was with my ex for 14 months and during this time she was mentally, verbally and physically abusive towards me. I have never been in a relationship of this nature bnefore and it has broken me in ways I never thought possible. The pain inside my heart is so deep, there are days I can barely stand it. Not only did she cut me off officially and started dating someone else, she is also badmouthing me to mutual friends we have, telling them lies and accusing me of stalking her, which I am not doing. In fact, I actually go out of my way to avoid he because any interaction we have is usually ends up with her attacking me physically or, at the ver least, verbally.

At this point, she continues to prject plan, and have never fully owned any responsibility fo rher actions. Instead she blames me, if I did not poke at her so much, she would not hit me. Suffice it to say, in my mind I am glad it is over and I know it is for the best, but my heart continues to say otherwise, and I believe this is do to the attachment issues people referenced here.

Letting go of her is extremely painful and part of me feels like I still love her and want to save her. I know I also have co-dep issues, which I am working on in therapy. However, she cannot be saved, doesn't want to get help, and just keeps bringing people into her life,like this new guy, who she elicits support from, by making the last person seem like the abuser, only to have it turned around on you later. She did this to me with her last ex, and since our breakup him and I have talked. She treated him exactly like she treated me. Knowing this helped me see it is/was not about me, but I still cannot get over how hard this has been. There are days I am sick to my stomach with sadness and longing for her, and other ways when I despise her for how abusive she was.   

[charred]

Attachment theory explains what BPD is and how it comes about... . often hear that BPD is an attachment disorder.

I believe it explains the tight bond and great suffering we face in an r/s with a pwBPD, as it is becomes a primary r/s with us, and most r/s are not. So losing the BPD partner is like losing a parent, very deep hurting, depression and major upset, seemingly out of all proportion to a normal breakup... . and they typical betrayal by them cuts us to the core... . though thats not ever good in any r/s.

Attachment theory explains my own anxious/avoidant behavior's origins... . so it has been helpful to me for understanding how I got in to this mess with a pwBPD and why I am like I am.

It doesn't give me much hope for great improvement though, most the attachment styles change very little and while there does seem to be changes from one style  to another ... . like from anxious to fearful-avoidant in my case... there isn't much hope of going from fearful-avoidant to secure.

The only advice I have seen that really makes sense based on attachment style is that someone that is anxious or fearful-avoidant will do much better with a partner that is secure, than with any other type. The advice for a secure person... . be with another secure person.

Taking some effort to accept these conclusions... . think it is reality. The attraction from the disordered types is a siren call to a toxic r/s, and the best type for me is with a secure person... . which tends to lack much of a spark.

So what pulled me in was the disordered persons neediness, responded to by my own neediness, ... . I was hooked by the mirroring and flattery, and my fate was sealed by the enthusiastic sex with the hot girl.  If I could have stopped right there... . would have been my happily ever after story... . but the r/s was toxic and it ended me here.