Feel like the biggest idiot

[snappafcw]

BPD and illness aside I feel like a fool.

What kind of woman wants a man with a lack of boundaries. After all I did for my ex I was a pushover and then she left me for someone else. I forgive her though and I don't want her back.

I'm really struggling to forgive myself though. No woman wants a man who doesn't have a backbone and I don't think i will date again for a very long time. I don't feel like i deserve someone anyway... .

Ironic isn't It. Thought I was doing all the right things and even a woman who isn't sick wouldn't want me anyway. I learnt a lot from this BPD experience but even though I've been working on me at the end of the day Im still nice and not much drama. Just another schmuck a woman gets bored with.

[Lucky Jim]

Hey Snappa, Go easy on yourself.  It's bad enough having a pwBPD putting you down, but you don't need to do it to yourself.  I think you will find, as time goes on, there are many out there who want a calm and loving relationship, w/o the drama of BPD.  So give yourself a break and start focusing on becoming whatever is most authentic to your true self.  Take a walk on the beach/in the woods.  Listen to your gut.  Practice mindfulness.  You get the picture.  Lucky Jim

[snappafcw]

I really appreciate the kindness here. Ive been doing the right things focusing on career. Spending time with friends. At the end of the day though I am who I am.

[causticdork]

You know, it's great to develop healthy boundaries and learn to stick up for yourself, but people with BPD are pros at pushing and manipulating until whatever boundaries you once had are completely obliterated.  I have developed very healthy boundaries over the years, but there was a while before I ended things with my ex where I kept catching myself standing back and letting her trample all over them.  And after I broke up her she went out and found the most backbone-less guy imaginable.  I know one person who knew him from school, and the only word he could come up with to describe the guy was, "Nebbish."  He told me he was like the human form of an injured baby bird.  

BPDs don't want boundaries.  If you had stood up for yourself then she would have found a way to make you feel like an uncaring jerk for it.  That's how my ex busted through mine.  She actually managed to make me feel guilty for having normal boundaries and attempting to assert them.  When you're in a healthy relationship it's much easier to have a backbone and boundaries because your partner respects them and it's not a constant battle that leaves you exhausted all the time.

[snappafcw]

I suppose that is why she left in the end. I started to stand up for myself and want my needs met. I didn't want her to leave me though.

[Perfidy]

I am still grieving my ex. She was a real piece of work. When we met she told me she had problems and was on antidepressants. She said she had some kind of obsessive behavior that she had been diagnosed with. She was also a meth addict. I did not want a relationship with her. It was supposed to be a one night stand. It lasted eight years. I took care of her the whole time. She was very low functioning. No job. No hobbies. No real friends. She just existed. She ended up leaving. It was the best thing that could have happened. I became very emotionally attached to her. She was like a child to me. In the course of our gesture I figure I spent about a quarter million dollars on her. I had huge emotional investment and financial investment as well. She just walked away and didn't even glance back. She didn't even take her clothes. So don't feel bad. I couldn't even keep a relationship with a derelict.

[gallerykey]

I think there comes a time when we all start to stand up for ourselves in little ways, mine was not putting up with the lying and would counter check everything he said and did. He didnt like this and i believe this was the start of him believing i was "black" and stayed that way, sometimes i think i pushed him to this other woman but on the other hand maybe she saved me. The sad thing is someone else will have to save her and on it goes... .

I would love a nice guy without drama, one to ENJOY time with, TRUST my time with, LOOK FORWARD to my time with. And one day if im lucky thats what i will have cos i dont want another like ive just had. Life can be stressful enough without adding to it.

I still think what if i didnt do this or that or say thie etc... . but i would be doing that everyday for the rest of my time if i was still with him, at least now it will pass in a few months time

[Eric1]

We're all the same. I'm punishing myself aswell, but realisation sets in. I did have boundaries, but she would distort, argue, manipulate until you break them. You can't win. If you say no, they throw a fit, tell you that you don't care about their feelings, that you're selfish, rubbish boyfriend etc.

You can't win.

[Perfidy]

We're all the same. I'm punishing myself aswell, but realisation sets in. I did have boundaries, but she would distort, argue, manipulate until you break them. You can't win. If you say no, they throw a fit, tell you that you don't care about their feelings, that you're selfish, rubbish boyfriend etc.

You can't win.

Right... no way at all to win. Not with a relationship that is toxic. I feel lucky that I got out alive and I still grieve and am depressed. Better luck to the new guy. Hope all the best. The poison was strong. The worst relationship ever... I want some more of that.

[winston72]

Perfidy... . ah, the paradox: "The poison was strong. The worst relationship ever... I want some more of that."

You describe it well.  It is a condition for so many on these boards.

[DeRetour]

Snappafdw,

Hey, just letting you know you are certainly not alone here. I'm in week 2 post-breakup. I've posted about my breakups - yes there were 2 breakups and 2 "breaks", and I won't go into exhaustive detail here. What I will say is that this is my final breakup with my ex.

When I look at the things I let go, it really astounds me to see what I allowed with her. Within 14 months, she's walked all over me, pushed and pulled, lied, emotionally (at the least) cheated on me. I realize now that I've allowed her to dictate how I dressed, how often and how close I shaved. She had a beard/stubble fetish, but I prefer to be clean-shaven, ), how I should act if I was upset about anything, etc. I remained with her even when it took her months to even introduce me to her friends and family. (She had this really eerie secretiveness about her - locked phone and strange behavior on social media. On Instagram, she'd often edit me out of dinners we had together. Out in public we held hands and she'd refer to us as "we". But on social media, she'd often leave me out or leave out the essential pronouns. Her explanation - "I'm private. What does it matter, all my friends and family know about us! C'mon, don't be ridiculous!" I didn't get it - I'm generally a good-looking guy, kind, likeable, reasonably smart, and self-aware, and yet... . this kind of behavior! And when she withdrew or emotionally blackmailed me with threats of ending the relationship, or even of considering suicide, what did I do? I came right back.

I've read some good comments to your posting. I like what causticdork mentioned about maintaining boundaries in healthy relationships. I too have worked for much of my adult life on being assertive. I like to think that I've done a good job so far. But even still, this girl pushed right on through these very boundaries. I spent so much money on her - working on the assumption that we were moving in together and looking at the long-term (marriage, children, and growing old together). One moment, we'd be painting the wall in my place as a step towards making it ours (she was already referring to it as such), and the next minute I was pleading with her, desperately trying to get her out of feeling "low" for looking remotely less-than-chipper. Oh, but if I looked too happy, she'd find something to criticize of me. I might be talking to her about something serious then, she'd overlap me and quickly tell me my nose was dripping! Of course that began to irritate me and I'd look less than pleased, which would lead to the whole "are you upset with me? I don't have to tell you these things. I could just be quiet, you know? etc." Wheww. Sorry I just went into exhaustive detail, after all!

And this leads me to my final point. I know the healing process is different for everyone here. Yesterday I was feeling so incredibly hopeless, for instance, after sundown when I found myself walking alone among couples holding hands. I was really feeling bitter, cheated, and hopeless. But even still something that's helped me is this - I think of this as basically detox. And this is very much what it feels like. Symptoms of this unhealthy relationship have shown up physically - knotted stomach, headaches, body aches, nausea, and a general feeling as though I've had a full-body concussion. And yet... . yet, there is some clarity beneath this. I recognize that this is what it feels like when something toxic leaves my body.

There is nothing idiotic about having gone through this. Hang on. I like what LuckyJim says, take a walk out in nature and practice mindfulness. Focus on really coming back to yourself and knowing what gets your interest. Who knows? There can be a lot of insight gained from this experience. I see no weakness in learning. I would like to learn how to surf, for instance. I don't care if it sounds cliche, I see surfing as a great metaphor for living life, taking on dreams - even in the face of unpredictable challenges.

Take care and be good to yourself!

[fromheeltoheal]

Mine went in phases, which is not unique.  It's natural with anyone when starting a relationship and enjoying the honeymoon stage to open up, share yourself, build intimacy; not enforcing boundaries has a negative connotation, but letting boundaries down to develop intimacy is natural and healthy.  of course when we do that with someone who is disordered, we're really just giving them ammunition to use later, he found out the hard way.  I'm embarrassed that I put up with all i did after she turned on me, but my heart was in the right place, and I was mostly shocked and bewildered, trying to get back to where we started; a fiction it turns out, she's not capable of true intimacy, but it sure felt like it for a while.  But I didn't put up with it for all that long, and when I started giving her back what she gave be all hell broke loose: there's no way she can be in a 50/50 relationship, she needs to have absolute control, and fight that, and it's over.

Sounds like you did stand up for yourself eventually, and good for you.  We all got blindsided by the bait and switch; mine got extremely good at it because most men left her, and there have been a lot, so she's gotten very good at emotional entrapment because she sees it as the only way to get someone to stay, she's just not good enough in her own head, and only the sickest among us hang around for very long.  Sounds like you were healthy enough to break free, nothing idiotic about that.

[seeking balance]

BPD and illness aside I feel like a fool.

What kind of woman wants a man with a lack of boundaries. After all I did for my ex I was a pushover and then she left me for someone else. I forgive her though and I don't want her back.

I'm really struggling to forgive myself though. No woman wants a man who doesn't have a backbone and I don't think i will date again for a very long time. I don't feel like i deserve someone anyway... .

Ironic isn't It. Thought I was doing all the right things and even a woman who isn't sick wouldn't want me anyway. I learnt a lot from this BPD experience but even though I've been working on me at the end of the day Im still nice and not much drama. Just another schmuck a woman gets bored with.

Boundaries are in direct proportion to self-worth... . work on forgiving yourself so you can learn to value yourself, then when others don't, we are not really attracted to that type of person any longer. 

[snappafcw]

On Instagram, she'd often edit me out of dinners we had together. Out in public we held hands and she'd refer to us as "we". But on social media, she'd often leave me out or leave out the essential pronouns. Her explanation - "I'm private. What does it matter, all my friends and family know about us! C'mon, don't be ridiculous!" I didn't get it - I'm generally a good-looking guy, kind, likeable, reasonably smart, and self-aware, and yet... . this kind of behavior! And when she withdrew or emotionally blackmailed me with threats of ending the relationship, or even of considering suicide, what did I do? I came right back.

I'm glad i'm not alone on this one. (i don't want anyone to go through the same thing of course) My last two girlfriends both  did this actually (both suspected BPD) and for me trying to keep me a secret was probably the most worthless thing possible for me. Thanks for all the encouragement and support.

[Clearmind]

I agree with seeking balance.

Snappa, I would say you are not alone and being a man, the pressure is certainly evident. What is even more ironic is that it took this relationship for you to be awake and realize that maybe you do lack boundaries – its OK – we are all probably in your shoes.

Please be mindful that no person is worth bending your own moral codes for – that is a boundary buster and you are worth way more than that.

Work on your self worth and boundaries will naturally follow. You can still be nice and be assertive.

Can I ask if you were permitted to be assertive as a child?

Boundaries Tools of Respect

Great book: Boundaries by Henry Cloud PhD, John Townsend PhD

[snappafcw]

I'll reply as quick as possible clear mind as my upbringing is such a long and sad story... .

But i mainly grew up with my aunt from the age of 10 and a little bit earlier. The upbringing was abusive mainly emotionally. Her along with my other family members didn't nurture or encourage me nor did they value my opinion on much which I guess explains why I'm a people pleaser especially with ladies. i was bullied as well and I guess thats where the needing validation comes in. I have come a long was since I was a kid. I do like who I am for the most part. I am kind, caring I'm not perfect but i do own up to my mistakes and take accountability for any wrongs... . I just happened to be a pushover... .

It finally clicked what my friends mean by being too nice. It just means looking after those who don't respect or appreciate you. My saying was always "there is no such thing as too nice other people should be nicer" In a sense that is true but not how the world works unfortunately.

At least after a few abusive relationships Ive finally learnt something. Just wish I didn't have to hit rock bottom emotionally for it to happen. I deserve better than this. We all deserve better than this. I do respect change comes from within though. Doesn't mean what happened was right... .

[Clearmind]

  you struck a cord and yes there is a price for being nice. Often 'nice' people are people pleasers and eventually become resentful due to their own doing ---> self shaming. Being assertive is ok and shows you have boundaries. Not everyone will agree with us -- and if that's the case -- you are living an authentic life!

[Trick1004]

I certainly feel like an idiot also. Looking back at the amount of crap I put up with my ex, behavior I've walked away from people dishing out to me before, I am amazed at how I let it happen.

It helps me to compare how I felt before I met her and the how I felt during the last month or so of the r/s. Before I met her I didn't consider myself as someone with low self-esteem and was pretty happy living my life. Man though, after 4 years knowing her she slowly chipped away at me and my self-esteem. There were so many occasions early in the r/s where I wanted to walk away but wasn't quite able to. Towards the end I felt so miserable, stifled and drained I started pushing back against her.

I think they can sense when a certain "breaking point" in their partner has been reached, in their minds they expect r/s at some point to end, and I think they always have an escape plan in place for whenever they start feeling a loss of control.

I've felt like an idiot before in my life and probably feel that way again, but I can learn from these mistakes and so far have avoided making them again.

[Lucky Jim]

Hey Tric1004k,

You put that well!  In my experience, those w/BPD take an inch here and an inch there, and over the course of a BPD r/s you are unaware how much ground you've lost until you look back and see that you're a mile from where you used to be . . .   At some point, you come to the realization that you have lost touch with most of your friends and family, and are only a shadow of your former self.  I found myself lost in a dark wood, with no discernible way out of the forest.  Not fun, believe me!  Took a long time to rediscover my path after the BPD miasma.

Thanks to all,

Lucky Jim

[IamDevastated]

BPD and illness aside I feel like a fool.

What kind of woman wants a man with a lack of boundaries. After all I did for my ex I was a pushover and then she left me for someone else. I forgive her though and I don't want her back.

I'm really struggling to forgive myself though. No woman wants a man who doesn't have a backbone and I don't think i will date again for a very long time. I don't feel like i deserve someone anyway... .

Ironic isn't It. Thought I was doing all the right things and even a woman who isn't sick wouldn't want me anyway. I learnt a lot from this BPD experience but even though I've been working on me at the end of the day Im still nice and not much drama. Just another schmuck a woman gets bored with.

The REAL irony is that these BPD girls can ONLY be with someone who NEVER sets any boundaries or raise their voice against them or has any needs or wishes of their own whatsoever. This is how they condition us right from the beginning. They WANT a doormat and an emotional trash can to dump all their hate and anger in.

But like any other woman they also don´t respect someone like this. It´s a real catch-22. Because their disease can only co exist with someone like this - at least until they decid to split you black for whatever insignificant little reason anyway.

I myself am not a doormat type per nature. But my exBPD terrorized me and punished me horrifically until I got the message and submitted to her (warped and very mentally ill) will. Of course she only did this after I had fallen in love with her and was heavily invested emotionally. This is how they operate. It is very sinister. But also very clever. If someone acted like this from the beginning any man would kick them to the curb.

Don´t be so hard on yourself, bro. I´m 100% sure that a beautiful BPD girl can break anybody. Even Mike tyson would get KO´ed by a BPD girl. The ONLY cure and the ONLY way to be a "real man" with a BPD girl is to realize all the   from the BEGINNING and BEFORE you get emotionally invested and then get the hell out there as fast as you possibly can! I mean RUN faster than Usain Bolt himself!

It´s also a question of experience. They count on our lack of experience. I think many of us didn´t have the most experience with girls before we met out exBPDs. There are many reason they get away with their sick games. This being one of them. Now you have the experience. You can tell from a mile apart the next time you run into one of these pwBPD. And then you can do your Usain Bolt.

[Ittookthislong]

ha. after this experience i cant wait for someone to get bored with. my poor little ptsd heart needs a break

[Trick1004]

It´s also a question of experience. They count on our lack of experience. I think many of us didn´t have the most experience with girls before we met out exBPDs. There are many reason they get away with their sick games. This being one of them. Now you have the experience. You can tell from a mile apart the next time you run into one of these pwBPD. And then you can do your Usain Bolt.

I think this is a good point. At least for me the r/s with my ex was by far the longest r/s I'd ever been in before. I'd been in a couple lasting around a year but for various reasons mutually called them off. The longer it lasted the more my barriers wore down and I just kind of accepted her behavior as normal in a long-term r/s.