BPD - accepting it

[Beware of Junk Psychology...]

Hey Leaving Board!

My ex was very high functioning in terms of job and social status.  As such, there were many periods of time that seemed relatively normal.  She was good at "saying" the right thing at the right time, but when I started to notice actions were inconsistent with the words - I tried to point out the error of her ways rather than really look at why the heck I was staying and how my boundaries eventually became someone I didn't even know.

Having been on the boards for a while now, I have found many people truly struggle with understanding & more importantly accepting the facts of the disorder.  Most of the time it is because they are so tied to the "self" that was idealized that accepting that was an enhanced version of reality is quite a blow to self worth.

So, let's talk about :

1. Why is it hard for YOU to wrap your head around this as a true mental illness?

2. Why do we expect a person with very clear patterns of poor behavior (or we wouldn't be here, right?) to be the one that changes the dynamic?

Dig deep in this one as it may start to unlock letting go.

[seeking balance]

Hey Leaving Board!

My ex was very high functioning in terms of job and social status.  As such, there were many periods of time that seemed relatively normal.  She was good at "saying" the right thing at the right time, but when I started to notice actions were inconsistent with the words - I tried to point out the error of her ways rather than really look at why the heck I was staying and how my boundaries eventually became someone I didn't even know.

Having been on the boards for a while now, I have found many people truly struggle with understanding & more importantly accepting the facts of the disorder.  Most of the time it is because they are so tied to the "self" that was idealized that accepting that was an enhanced version of reality is quite a blow to self worth.

So, let's talk about :

1. Why is it hard for YOU to wrap your head around this as a true mental illness?

2. Why do we expect a person with very clear patterns of poor behavior (or we wouldn't be here, right?) to be the one that changes the dynamic?

Dig deep in this one as it may start to unlock letting go.

[Reg]

Seekingbalance,

Actually finding out it was a mental disorder and learning about it and understanding her behavior that way, did make it easy for me to accept things and understand her behavior.

Actually I find it curious that so many people on the board do think that the borderlines behavior is very intentional to hurt and to humiliate the partner, and that they know very well what they do.

With everything that I learn, even now, every day, things become crystal clear to me.

I feel no more anger or frustration towards her, nor do I feel guilty myself of anything.  However I have accepted the fact that I must have caused my ex also a lot of stress.  And vice versa of course.

I've been staring myself blind for a part on the wrong reason to not let go of her, a sexual abusive husband who was not prepared to let her go at any price, no matter if she still loved him or not (his own words towards me), with serious narcistic features, and thought of her as being naive and easily influenced and manipulated (she was in a way), but I also had to take a lesson about myself and why I stayed with her and let go things to far.  And that is the other side.  She was good looking, 12 years younger, gave me hopes for a baby together, I had a great stepdaughter, and it was the first time in 10 years I did have serious feelings for someone.  I was scared that I might not have this again in my life.  I had to face my own fear on that matter also.

I am sorry for her that she is in a very non empathic environment which gives little hope for help, but I have also accepted that the only person who can help her, is herself... .

My ex was also high functioning in her jobs as well.

Reg

[dangoldfool]

1. Why is it hard for YOU to wrap your head around this as a true mental illness?

2. Why do we expect a person with very clear patterns of poor behavior (or we wouldn't be here, right?) to be the one that changes the dynamic?

1) Because they don't present themselves as what a crazy person looks like in my mind/world. At least when we got together. Now I'm able to see patterns of Lies and things she would say that even then seemed strange but I was blinded by the love. I was weak.

2) For me I don't expect anything to change I'm on firm ground of not wanting  her back. I was the guy providing everything she ask for. When I found out she cheated on me. I was done. She even said that in the relationship. "Once a cheater always a cheater". I just didn't or didn't want to see the red flags.

Man, I could give my self an a-- kicking. I do it.

[seeking balance]

Actually finding out it was a mental disorder and learning about it and understanding her behavior that way, did make it easy for me to accept things and understand her behavior.

Anger was a safe emotion for me to hold onto - it was once I focused on the facts, I was able to detach and realize the behaviors was little to do with me.

The anger was easier to feel than the pain - the very real loss of the marriage that at least in my mind was a "for better or worse" deal.

Thanks for sharing Reg!

[seeking balance]

1) Because they don't present themselves as what a crazy person looks like in my mind/world. At least when we got together. Now I'm able to see patterns of Lies and things she would say that even then seemed strange but I was blinded by the love. I was weak.

Why do you think you were weak?

I have come to a place where some of it is definitely our own issues - and some of it is simply we do all want to be loved... . balance in perspective has helped me.  It is not like BPD or PD's for that matter is taught in every day life.  Although the new Dr. Phil book really does give a great overview of the "new" way of life... . which includes Users or he calls them Baiters.

2) For me I don't expect anything to change I'm on firm ground of not wanting  her back.

Wise man

[Iamdizzy]

Seeking balance,

I guess for me the dichotomy of BPD is that, I guess we associate illness even mental illness with clear *consistent* patterns whereas BPD is like the name states, borderline. Take a person with schizophrenia, they show visible signs to all and their behavior consistently deviates from the norm. Bpd reveal themselves to certain people, not all. My ex appears normal, a social butterfly, sexy, smart and for those who just know her, they wouldn't have a clue to the person behind the mask. It's hard to grasp that this is truly a mental illness, perhaps she lacks or over produces neurotransmitters, or is hard wired differently than us because there are moments of clarity and normalcy. It's kind of saying this person has cancer although its gone  then appears continuously.

[seeking balance]

Iamdizzy,

thanks for sharing!

I remember the first time I read on these boards - BPD exists to deny itself - It made NO sense to me at the time.

What I have come to realize is that people all want to feel "normal" - even pwBPD.  So they mimic, act "as if" and  even believe it themselves.  Then an intense feeling happens - and coping happens... . depending upon how they learned to cope it can look like a wide range of behaviors.

I watched Tami Green on youtube talk about when she finally accepted her diagnosis... . Mind you, she was high functioning, highly intellegent and had 9 of 9 criteria, but did not see it in herself.  Her brain literally wouldn't let her see it.  She spent months with a T discussing what it would "look like" to have each criteria - the behavior, while learning how to stay in her own emotions.  It was really eye opening for me.

The facts are the facts - intimate relationships (fear of abandonment/engulfment) are the trigger - thus casual friends won't trigger the maladaptive coping... . by nature of the disorder. 

Once I let go of all my preconceived ideas and really started looking at the facts - it became easier for me to process my own grief.

[Iamdizzy]

Although having episodes of normalcy and rage is in itself not normal. I guess I cling on to the fact that she was able to act/be? Normal and that her BPD, speculating only from what I saw because I wasn't with her 24/7 nor do I live in her head, is something that appeared only when there was a bump in the road and she quickly faltered. Another times would be when the relationship got too normal and chaos/drama was no where to be found so she would start.

[Iamdizzy]

I might just watch that later tonight.

I really want to accept it. I had a family member of mine pass not too long ago due to cancer. Hurt like hell but it was something I can accept because I saw the physical signs that were evident of illness.

Tis whole BPD is ambiguous. I know my BPDexs behavior is abnormal and she fits BPD criteria perhaps 1 or 2 do not apply and that's because I don't have kids/not married to her. It's not coincidence that I've found so many websites and read so many stories about BPD that are similar to mine... . it's just hard to set it in stone and say iamdizzy, she's sick because she, not sure if it was a facade or actual normalcy, but she was able to be normal.

[seeking balance]

Although having episodes of normalcy and rage is in itself not normal. I guess I cling on to the fact that she was able to act/be? Normal and that her BPD, speculating only from what I saw because I wasn't with her 24/7 nor do I live in her head, is something that appeared only when there was a bump in the road and she quickly faltered. Another times would be when the relationship got too normal and chaos/drama was no where to be found so she would start.

YOU just stumbled across something very very important here -

Much of the time, a pwBPD is acting even in the good times for you - there is not a stable sense of self with this disorder, another fact.

[Iamdizzy]

Sorry if I'm replying excessively but this is interesting. I agree with you that they do not have a sense of self, that's why they quickly jump to new relationships to feel validated and a sort of relief that they have a temporary ""resting"" place if you want to call it that.

[dangoldfool]

seeking balance Why do you think you were weak?

I had/have, Low self esteem. I can't remember when or even if I ever had great self esteem. Seeing a T to help me work on that now. I just so want to be fixed.    

I like this.

Much of the time, a pwBPD is acting even in the good times for you - there is not a stable sense of self with this disorder, another fact.

[Bananas]

So, let's talk about :

1. Why is it hard for YOU to wrap your head around this as a true mental illness?

2. Why do we expect a person with very clear patterns of poor behavior (or we wouldn't be here, right?) to be the one that changes the dynamic?

Dig deep in this one as it may start to unlock letting go.

This is a great thread. 

#1: For me I think I can wrap my head around BPD being a mental illness, sure reading about it, I think I understand that.  Where I get stuck is theat my ex is not diagnosed (that I know of, he told me he was only diagnosed with anxiety and depression).  So the battle is in my own mind, I get stuck on: does he have it?  What does he have?  Is he really mentally ill?  Or was it just me?  I am pretty sure my ex has something, there is a destructive pattern that I have seen with his past relationships, not just gfs but also close friends.  And he has confirmed mental illness in his family.  But still, he seems so "normal" sometimes.  He has a great job, a nice car, a house, a dog, a wife now... .   So I think knowing for sure he was diagnosed would help? 

#2:  I had to reread this and think about it.  It totally makes sense.  I think I saw it before on here.  But I am at the point where I get it now... . diagnosed or not, he definitely has clear patterns of poor behavior.   

[seeking balance]

Where I get stuck is theat my ex is not diagnosed (that I know of, he told me he was only diagnosed with anxiety and depression).  So the battle is in my own mind, I get stuck on: does he have it?  What does he have?  Is he really mentally ill?  Or was it just me? 

wow - I totally relate to this, I lived here for about 6 months while my ex and I were in MC and then during the final split... . I just so wanted a diagnosis so I could be "right".

Schwing finally said to me in a thread, "does it really matter, you lived it, the stories are consistent, don't you think it is time to focus on you?"  (he may have been a bit nicer, but that was the essence).

That reality check is what helped me let go of that need to be sure... . at the end of the day, it was some very dysfunctional behavior on both our parts, just in different ways.

Thanks for contributing Bananas!

[seeking balance]

I had/have, Low self esteem. I can't remember when or even if I ever had great self esteem. Seeing a T to help me work on that now. I just so want to be fixed.    

You are more than 1/2 there my friend... . please keep sharing your progress as you are an inspiration at focusing on self.

[cska]

1. Why is it hard for YOU to wrap your head around this as a true mental illness?

2. Why do we expect a person with very clear patterns of poor behavior (or we wouldn't be here, right?) to be the one that changes the dynamic?

1) I've wrapped my head around it, but that actually didn't help me, because I keep thinking to myself "Why did you leave her side knowing she is sick. You're the type of ___hole who would would leave a sick person behind. You should have tried to help her. You would want someone to help you if YOU were sick... "

Its not healthy thinking, I know, but I can't help it.

2)I don't expect her to change, that's why I left. I had a very traumatic experience with her (she acted like she was gonna jump out onto traffic), and I knew I couldn't handle it any more.

[seeking balance]

1) I've wrapped my head around it, but that actually didn't help me, because I keep thinking to myself "Why did you leave her side knowing she is sick. You're they type of ___hole that would leave a sick person behind. You should have tried to help her. You would want someone to help you in YOU were sick... "

Its not healthy thinking, I know, but I can't help it.

Yeah, I stayed until I didn't know who I was any longer - it is better for you both to leave.

Article 9 - 10 false beliefs that keep us stuck was my saving grace... . I printed it and read it often through out the day.  One of them is about how we are the trigger and we are not the ones to fix this... . I read that over and over until I believed it.

Thanks for sharing cska!

[Emelie Emelie]

I still have a hard time wrapping my head around that.  Part of it is that he had a lot of self awareness about certain behaviors.  And of course most of the time he was pretty "normal".  It does bother me that he is aware of this and doesn't seek any help for it.  He just leaves a lot of collateral damage.

As far as changing the dynamic... . I didn't have the first clue about that one.  I did a lot of homework on BPD and God knows I tried. 

[seeking balance]

I still have a hard time wrapping my head around that.  Part of it is that he had a lot of self awareness about certain behaviors.  And of course most of the time he was pretty "normal".  It does bother me that he is aware of this and doesn't seek any help for it.  He just leaves a lot of collateral damage.

you know, it is not much different than any other mentally ill person not doing treatment and leaving a path of destruction.

for example, bipolar people go off meds often because they think they are better.  alcoholics or drug addicts can relapse several times before it "takes".

Mental illness is hard for everyone around it - BPD is not really any different than any other one in terms of the collateral damage.  It is sad when our only real option is to slowly back away so the chaos at least leaves our life.

[papawapa]

1. Why is it hard for YOU to wrap your head around this as a true mental illness?

For me its not hard to see that it is a mental illness. Her behaviors show that her brain is wired differently than anyone else I know.





2. Why do we expect a person with very clear patterns of poor behavior (or we wouldn't be here, right?) to be the one that changes the dynamic?

You can't expect them to be the one to change the dynamic. I came to realize this over time. There were a number of times after she had some major event where she disassociated and afterwards she would recognize that something was wrong and would admit she needed help. But she would refuse to do anything on her own to get help and when confronted about it the excuses and blaming would begin. In the end I reached my breaking point, I couldn't deal with her hit any longer. I made her take her things and leave our home. Then when she started threatening to put our children at risk I had to go to court and get an emergency custody order. She left at the end of May and now she has, after losing everything that mattered to her most, finally reached the point that she is willing to get help for herself. I had to change and she had to suffer extreme consequences before she was willing to change.

[SweetCharlotte]

1. Why is it hard for YOU to wrap your head around this as a true mental illness?

2. Why do we expect a person with very clear patterns of poor behavior (or we wouldn't be here, right?) to be the one that changes the dynamic?

Dig deep in this one as it may start to unlock letting go.

He told me that I was the one who was mentally ill, that he is perfectly rational. I am the one who lives in a world of illusions based on my own feelings.

Why did I believe it? I have in fact been diagnosed with bipolar type 2 and take nothing for it. I used to drink daily and now I am in recovery. So I thought that he was right and that I just had to work harder on my own recovery. Now that I have been in recovery for over a year and have been doing well professionally, I'm not as willing to believe that I am not in my right mind when he is emotionally disregulating and/or dissociating.

[seeking balance]

He told me that I was the one who was mentally ill, that he is perfectly rational. I am the one who lives in a world of illusions based on my own feelings.

Why did I believe it? I have in fact been diagnosed with bipolar type 2 and take nothing for it. I used to drink daily and now I am in recovery. So I thought that he was right and that I just had to work harder on my own recovery. Now that I have been in recovery for over a year and have been doing well professionally, I'm not as willing to believe that I am not in my right mind when he is emotionally disregulating and/or dissociating.

It is tough when the person we love and trust uses our greatest weakness against us.  It is easy to buy into their belief until we can get really really clear.

I had said early on that "I can be a handful" meaning I live life very honestly and a lot of people kinda tip toe around subjects.  This exact phrase was used the first night of MC back at me and it really pushed my own shame button.

What I learned is by focusing on my own behaviors - I really wasn't the one that was distorting reality, my ex was.

Thanks for sharing!

[seeking balance]

Then when she started threatening to put our children at risk I had to go to court and get an emergency custody order. She left at the end of May and now she has, after losing everything that mattered to her most, finally reached the point that she is willing to get help for herself. I had to change and she had to suffer extreme consequences before she was willing to change.

Good for you putting your children first and good for her that she may be getting help.

[fromheeltoheal]

When I learned about BPD and read story after story that echoed my experience with my ex exactly, the lights came on immediately, and these boards helped me a great deal in keeping some sort of balance during the detachment.  I don't know where I'd be now if I hadn't broken free enough and learned enough, interaction with her was seriously crazy-making.  At first there was the sigh of relief and the great news that 'it's not me!', but it took a while for the emotions to subside to a point where I could look at her a little more objectively and start to understand the chaos in her head as it relates to the disorder.  So bottom line, the acceptance came with time.

So now I chalk my experience up more to naivety than poor self esteem.  I went in totally blind and got seriously blindsided, stayed longer than I should, but it didn't take that long for me to tire of her sht, and as soon as I started standing up for myself and demanding accountability, all hell broke loose, and it ended.  I experienced the death of my naivety as a result, and I honestly don't see that happening again with someone else, mostly because I'm demanding more now, because I deserve a lot better, and she needs to show up accordingly.

[seeking balance]

 I experienced the death of my naivety as a result, and I honestly don't see that happening again with someone else, mostly because I'm demanding more now, because I deserve a lot better, and she needs to show up accordingly.

Very well said!

I, too, no longer look at relationships through Disney eyes.

[mitchell16]

1. Why is it hard for YOU to wrap your head around this as a true mental illness?

From my point of view, mine ex was very high functioning. In my life ive saw people with mental illiness and it was very easy to see. It was so clear. But with her she is beutiful, exciting, highly educated, can work a job, own a home, pay her bills. It was very easy for her to convince me for the longest time that it was all me. I was coming off a divorce, im in a high security type job, was recovering from a life threating illness, my education level is not as high as hers, etc. So when the cracks starting showing, she was able to make me think it was all me. I was to paranoid, I wasnt use to " a strong independant highly educated women" she was being accussed of things she wasnt doing, its been that way her whole life ( her version) she told me stories of her divorce of course she accepted some responsiblities which made her believable. Based on her mirrorring of me, I thought I had found my true love, the woman I always wanted. When I started to relize what she was saying about me and my behavior wasnt true I knew it was her. Even when I caught her in lies and she admitted to it, she still felt like she should be believed about everything and anything she ever said and was offended if she wasnt. and the pattern of lies kept happening and still she demanded to be believed and if she lied it was my fault she lied. I started relizinging somethig was wrong with this person. But I stayed on my own noone amd me. BUt she would tell me if I just did this or did that all of our problems would go away. But I started relizing when I made the adjustments that she said I should make it still kept happening or a new problem would come up, that no matter what I did she would always find a fault. She used to tell me her ex husband was lazy and she did all the work at home and that was part of the reason she divorced him. But now I know that he probably got to where nothing he did made her happy and he just quit trying. I can fully relate to him.


2. Why do we expect a person with very clear patterns of poor behavior (or we wouldn't be here, right?) to be the one that changes the dynamic?

I guess at times, I still thought she wasnt mentally ill. I could see her make changes in her behavior that told she could change. But what took me along time to see was yes, chnage for a short period of time usually just to get me back into the relationship and then it all would start all over again. She could not be consistent. When we broke up she would say she was sorry, admit wrong and promise that she had seen what she was doing. fast forward 6 or 8 weeks later. Back to the same and then she would deny that she ever admitted to any wrong doing  and it was all me again. So I guess because I could see some being normal in her, it was short lived. So that gave me expectations that she could change. It was only here in the last short while that I relaize It cant happen, wont happen. She would talk normal with alot of sense which made it even more confusing. Because it blind me to her mental disorder until it showed its ugly head again and it would start all over again. But I could bring myself unless she made me mad to walk away from her, putting up a bounderies was nearly impossible, she would peck away at them until they crumbled or it made her so mad she pushed me away. The only change I could have made was walking away, but I thought I loved her so much I couldnt dream of being the one to do that.

[beeker]

I struggle with the fact that she isn't two different people. She could seem very loving and caring at times. She is undiagnosed and I sometimes question if I got it wrong. Some of the horror stories I read don't match. She shows all the signs but rarely to the extreme.  I think I'm quick to dismiss some of the things she does because I'm very much in love with the woman I first met. I think I would be in a lot more trouble if it wasn't for how she treats the kids. I feel healthier and happier but I feel like I gave up on her. She still hurts and lies to us all. It would just be easier if she was a bad person and not sick. I really don't know how to get past that. Its like she has a built in excuse for her behavior.

[seeking balance]

Mitchell - thanks for sharing.

You pretty much summed up my experience too.  I remember that moment when I realized BPD ex's that I had thought were not very nice - wow, they were me.  Very much a sobering thought at that time.  I didn't even realize how much those stories played into my "SB is special" idealization pedestal.

[seeking balance]

I struggle with the fact that she isn't two different people. She could seem very loving and caring at times. She is undiagnosed and I sometimes question if I got it wrong. Some of the horror stories I read don't match. She shows all the signs but rarely to the extreme.  I think I'm quick to dismiss some of the things she does because I'm very much in love with the woman I first met. I think I would be in a lot more trouble if it wasn't for how she treats the kids. I feel healthier and happier but I feel like I gave up on her. She still hurts and lies to us all. It would just be easier if she was a bad person and not sick. I really don't know how to get past that. Its like she has a built in excuse for her behavior.

Welcome to the thread Beeker.

Most of us have undiagnosed partners and I know most of us struggle with the "is she or isn't she".

Someone who lies often to many people is not someone that a healthy person wants to be in a relationship with - it is a major character flaw.  Wouldn't you agree?

Whether she is or is not BPD - this is kinda a big one and if she won't look at it - is it really unfair for you to move forward with your life without her?

[tailspin]

Hey Balance  

For me it wasn't that I was unable to wrap my head around the fact my ex was mentally ill.  I was ashamed to admit that it took me so long to figure it out.  It was embarrassing to me and it tied into the inner shame and unrealistic expectations I had for myself.  Why didn't I know?  Why didn't I see it?  What is wrong with me that I didn't see it?  All really good questions as it turns out; ones that have led me through the wilderness to find my own answers.

Sometimes the faults we hate the most in others are exactly the faults we hate the most in ourselves.  This is why I wanted him to change; because it was easier to point the finger of blame at him instead of taking full responsibility for my own actions.  

I had to accept myself first (faults and all) before I could accept anything else.

tailspin