This Truth Hurts

[peacebaby]

Boundary: If a partner ever hit me I would leave them--not enforced.

Boundary: If I ever attacked my abusive partner first, I would leave her--not enforced.

Boundary: If my partner ever had more than 1 kiss with someone else, unless that person were famous and she told me all about it, I would leave her--not enforced.

Boundary: I said I'd never borrow money again because my partner wasn't bringing in enough money--not enforced.

For over a decade I believe my partner has been faithful to me. I still believe this about our past. Then last summer, her guilt forced her to admit she had kiss this guy--a sweet, drug-addled 24 year old--she's almost 40 and has never been interested in men. Then the deal breaker--more than once. They're involved in a group creative endeavor together and see each other regularly. She told me this almost a year ago, and said she'd stopped herself before it got serious and it was over.

One kiss can be an accident, a piece of desire that goes unchecked. But the second time, it's a choice. She made a choice she promised never to make. I forgave her because it was over and he was so ridiculously not a threat to me or our relationship--it was acting out and therefore somehow didn't count  . These kisses seemed to me inconsequential, like this kid couldn't possibly matter to her, or effect our relationship.

So months pass, she complains about why is his girlfriend so nasty to her. She acts like she doesn't get it, like that is so over and this girl has to have some other problem with her to be such a bhit.

Lately she's been on and off crazy--cabin fever from the surgery and then the broken foot--no therapy in a few years--making changes with her meds on her own--usually depressed or bhity, sometimes just fine. We've been talking about breaking up more than ever--I can't deal with her crap and she can't deal with putting me through it. It's never seemed real before, breaking up. Lately it's seemed more real. We are both starting doubt that she will ever be capable of treating me right or making it in the world--her career is so on the upswing but it's been so a million times before.

Anyway, today in a rage she told me she quit the creative endeavor via email--creative differences with the other main player, not the sweet boy. I didn't believe it would stick, and then she went to their meeting.

Then I did the thing that was wrong to do but she knows I know her email password and blah blah blah. No excuse to go into a partner's email unless you don't trust them and are willing to risk the relationship. She already knows I don't trust her and I am willing to risk the relationship.

So I checked her email with the guy she said she'd quit to, and I read the following things:

He reminded her that he told her way back in the winter (months after she told me she no longer had feelings for this boy) that her romantic feelings for this boy were really bad for their creative endeavor. He clarified that she needs to get over them because it's fvcking things up for the group. He said this to her again today, about a year after she confessed to me that she had kissed the boy and it was over and she had no serious feelings for him. He said that the way she is treating the boy is going to ruin everything they've created and it has to stop. 

In her angry response email of today she told him that her heart was still torn up about the boy.

Even if she's had no more physical contact with him than she related to me, she admitted that her heart continues to be damaged by whatever amount of romantic feeling they shared. This is romantic feeling for another person that she sees regularly and has been lying to me about. It means that all these months I've been helping her recover and taking her sh!t, part of her has been thinking about someone else, knowing it's a deal breaker for our relationship.

I haven't decided what to do yet. I just cannot be with someone who has romantic feelings for someone else, even when they're in love with me and would marry me if I let them.

I am not feeling this in my heart tonight. I'm feeling this in the place where I plan how I'll set up the apartment when I kick her out and get a roommate.

[peacebaby]

Fifty views and not a single response.

[123Phoebe]

Peacebaby

I just don't know what to say... .  

I'm sorry things are so yucky right now and hope that you find some peace in your life soon  

[Scout99]

Hi peacebaby!

I can see you are in a rough spot at the moment when conflicting feelings are wreaking havoc in your mind. It is simply frustrating to be ambivalent... .

Am I understanding it correctly that your gf has had some kind of a fling with a young boy at work, that then not showed her any more interest after that, but that she has had a hard time to emotionally let go, to the point where it has come to affect her work and the other members of her team? (I just want to make sure I don't get it wrong... . )

If that is the case I can understand how that makes you doubt her intentions and feelings for you. Betrayal is hurtful in any form and injures our trust... . And at that point it really doesn't matter whether our partner is BPD or not... . What becomes important is where we stand in it and where we want our boundaries to be... .

When in such a situation I think we all here can testify to the fact that then usually follows the conflicting emotions... . We love on one hand but get angry on the other... .

And we get angry at ourselves too for not standing up for ourselves and breaking our boundaries... .

A note on boundaries though... . They are there to protect us. But not to use as a weapon against us so that we start banging ourselves up for not being perfect at upholding them... . I dare think that there is probably not a single member here, me included, who haven't at one point or another broken some or even many of our boundaries. Many of us have a hard time even with setting them for ourselves when in relationships with people who have a personality disorder... .

So don't be so hard on yourself at this point... .

I don't want to be giving you a lot of advice on what to do about the situation your in... . Since that must ultimately come from you. But I would recommend you to take a bit of time and think things through and/or vent and share your experiences with others here on the board, and let things take its course so you can figure out where you are in all of this, and what you want to do... .

Are you or have you ever considered seeing a therapist yourself to help you with how to handle your difficult situation with your gf?

Some other questions to help you along the way may be:

Where do you see this relationship going knowing that your gf has the disorder and at least now is not in any treatment for it, helping her work on her issues?

What would need to change in order for you to be able to feel ok in the relationship?

What things could you do for yourself that would either make you feel better in the relationship or out of it?

Remember that we are here for you!

Best wishes

Scout99

[MaybeSo]

I am very sorry to hear about this... .

The crushes and emotional affairs are very difficult if not impossible to deal with.  I've been through some similar (albeit more short term) kinds of scenarios and that kind of betrayal feels awful and is very disorientating; for me, it feels like it closes doors that I would otherwise be able to find a way to keep open despite other challenges the relationship presents.  It leaves me little or no 'openings' to where I can feel ok about continuing on.

In the case you are dealing with... . it sounds like your partner is holding onto a fantasy and the young man is not participating any long and wants her to stop.  So much of this stuff is just pure fantasy that gets out of control... . cause "regular life" is just... . never ... . good... . enough. If I understand correctly this affecting a work or project related area of her life in a negative way.  That's not good, either. 

What really is upsetting is when their moods and poor behavior toward us is being influenced by the ups and downs of their crush on someone else. My ex can be a real jerk to me when he's in la-la land over someone else, and that's just not okay, it's really just not cool, and it's why I exit the scene when I get a sense or know that this kind of thing is going on.

Ugh.  This just sucks.   

[peacebaby]

Thanks for responding. guys. I mentioned it to her this morning before leaving for work, and she started defending herself. I explained that I wanted to hear about our relationship and how this effects it, for her. She's just so focused on herself, so takes me for granted, and what bothers me most is she didn't tell me it was still going on on some level. She let someone else into her heart, there was room in her heart for someone else... .

[MaybeSo]

I explained that I wanted to hear about our relationship and how this effects it, for her.

Good question!

[pallavirajsinghani]

I think that her romantic interest is a distraction from her facing the real issues:  her own dissatisfaction with life, her unhappiness.

It is alright to appreciate beauty and youth.  I am a happily married woman and I admire good looks in men, women, food, flowers, the sky... . you name it. 

When she confesses to her crush, she is probably indirectly trying to tell you how unhappy she is.  It would be an error of judgement on your part if you thought of this as competing with her fondness for you.  She is most probably telling you this because she wants your help in understanding why she is feeling this way.

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Now comes the more important part of my post (I think):  Even though you fully understand how and why she feels what she feels, you need to grant her complete freedom and responsibility for those feelings.  Just as you are in charge of your own feelings, she is in charge of and responsible for her own.

You are not a trained clinician... . you are a fully involved partner.  You cannot clinically detach yourself from her yearning for the "high" of a new relationship. 

So, only counseling can help her... . and you... . and preferably separate counseling.

God Bless.

[eeyore]

 

Peacebaby, it bothers me that after so many years of trying so hard your relationship still struggles.  I know how hard you have worked at it and I have so wished for there to be a turning point for you like there has been for those with success stories.   Many times you inspired me to keep trying and hoping.

I wish I could offer suggestions or help with the situation.   I'm just feeling like I'm at a loss.   I don't know what would help. 

 

[Katy-Did]

Peacebaby:  It's been a while since you've posted on the boards.  I've missed your input/insight which only comes from EXPERIENCE.  I cannot offer any relevant advice you haven't already received ... . or given, at one time or another.  Intellectually, you know the options... .

We've all established lines in the sand (i.e. boundaries) then allowed them to be muddled time and time again.  We bend, flex, negotiate... . until our fingers bleed yet, we continue. We continue to plug away at a relationship that somehow, someway serves our purpose despite the abuse/hurt/betrayal... . or could it be said, "... . due to the abuse/hurt/betrayal"?  Who knows.  Understanding why is an ever-pressing challenge, for me--at least. 

Please keep us posted.  Even though you've been a committed partner in this relationship for a long, long time--betrayal hurts... . period.  What will you do?

[seeking balance]

Peacebaby,

I know first-hand the guilt of reading someone's private information and then the jolt of reading what was told to you was a "one-time" and over a long time ago.

That said, there is a point where we accept our partner has limitations and at times acts very poorly and hurtfully or we accept the responsibility of making a relationship changes.  I wish there was some other, softer answer.

I am so sorry you are having to experience this - I so hoped for peace for you both.

Palla said my thoughts here:

Now comes the more important part of my post (I think):  Even though you fully understand how and why she feels what she feels, you need to grant her complete freedom and responsibility for those feelings.  Just as you are in charge of your own feelings, she is in charge of and responsible for her own.

You are not a trained clinician... . you are a fully involved partner.  You cannot clinically detach yourself from her yearning for the "high" of a new relationship. 

So, only counseling can help her... . and you... . and preferably separate counseling.

God Bless.

Be kind to you right now.

Best,

SB

[peacebaby]

Peacebaby, it bothers me that after so many years of trying so hard your relationship still struggles.  I know how hard you have worked at it and I have so wished for there to be a turning point for you like there has been for those with success stories.   Many times you inspired me to keep trying and hoping.

My partner and I have worked very hard and had many positive turning points. Unless something new has happened here, Steph is the ONLY PERSON who has a true success story. Her partner got well and is still well. They were able to separate and heal and get back together and he had only BPD. My partner has many mental illnesses, successfully completed DBT, and we have much better communication than almost any other couple I have EVER heard of on this board. Sometimes all the turning points in the world are not enough. The healthier I get, the more I realize that this board has helped me stay in my relationship--if I didn't find out about BPD, and that others were in way worse situations, I would probably have left her years ago. Instead it gave me compassion, and gave her a way to start to get it together. All relationships go back and forth with how one feels about them

That said, the situation is not as bad as it seemed. I've spoken both to my partner and to a friend of hers who wouldn't lie to me, and the situation is this. It did end when she said it ended. Since then she has been trying to figure out why it happened, and trying to deal with the rift it caused in her group and others attached to it. Her heart is torn about all of it, including me. The boy in question is still trying to be friends with her, and she can't be friends with him because of her confusing feelings. So she's not cheating on me, even just with her heart. but it doesn't make much difference.

There are still way too many painful things in our relationship that I am not sure we will ever overcome. I do try to have compassion for my failings. It ain't easy. But these days I have much more compassion for myself than I do for her, and I figure that's a good thing.

[MaybeSo]

I'm glad to and relieved to hear it's not as bad as it first seemed.

I agree with you, I think Stephs story is the only significant recovery story im aware if thus far. My ex certainly has other issues complicating the picture, too. Most of us have ups and downs along with improvements, but still have a lot of challenges and experiences that are difficult for any relationship to recover from.

Having compassion for yourself sounds like a really good idea right about now.

[peacebaby]

Thanks, Maybeso. It is so fvcking hard, but lately I have this joyful core that's all my own and really nice. My partner has been physically incapacitated and/or in pain for the last eight months--the nightmare is almost over. I am sure that once I have my time alone back it will be easier to radically accept where she is mentally, which again will be better very soon due to almost working again. I'm through with making twice as much money as she does though. If she can't pay her half of the rent, I've just had it. I can't be broke because of her anymore.

[MaybeSo]

I hear that!  . She can do it, she's a big girl.

I like having that joyful core that's all mine and can't be messed with, too! It was hard won, but it is  a very good feeling.


Bravo to you for getting there! You certainly have earned it!

[eeyore]

I just wish it was better for you as you had wished and hoped for.  I wanted that for you. 

[peacebaby]

I just wish it was better for you as you had wished and hoped for.  I wanted that for you.

So what does that mean Eeyore? That you no longer want that for me, that you think I can't have it? That you'd hoped my relationship with my lover who hits me would work out? I don't think it's wise to have hopes for other members of this board.

See, WHAT RECOVERY LOOKS LIKE and what I expect from the relationship changes with every step forward. "If she could just do/not do this" and then she stopped or did it, and then I felt the same about the next step. And the next. The better things get, and the healthier one gets, the more one wants and expects. Last fall, she was SO CLOSE to being who she wanted to be, to our lives being nice. I've said a million times that I was happy, but the happier I get, the more I need from her. The better she gets, the more I expect from her. She made it through her 6 month recovery from the surgery that would have crippled her if she hadn't done it--she was so positive, doing all her exercises. And then she broke her foot and it all fell apart--her coping mechanisms were done and she went back to bad coping skills. It was too much pressure and I pray that now that she's looking for work she'll get some and she'll get on a more even keel.

It always goes back to how much I am willing to sacrifice and endure for love. There is still so much love and hope, we still communicate in general much better than we have in the past. My issue is that I want more, that I've gotten to the end of all the money I can borrow because of her, and I'm sick of living like this. I want to be involved with her and live apart. So I can leave when she gets crazy and not see her for a few days. That would be ideal.

Anyway, as always, I say things about her that hurt and end up feeling like I need to defend her and myself. That's one of the many not so useful things about this board. I don't want to defend her, I'd like to complain about her more, about how fvcked up our relationship is. Whatever, I am not very good at emotional honestly.

[Foreverhopefull]

My heart goes out to you Peacebaby, I hope that you can find happiness whether it's in your relationship or by leaving it behind (BTW, not telling you to stay or leave here, it's your choice to make).

I was lucky enough not to deal with any infidelity in my relationship, if I was in your shoes, I would be struggling too.

I hope that you can get a moment to clear up all the thoughts and voices in your head and around you to help you make the best choice for you.

I wish you nothing but the best.

[Foreverhopefull]

BTW, I can honestly say that my goals and dreams for my relationship changes allot.

It's natural to want/expect more when they are showing us progress, it's human nature. We get caught up in the good and want to get more of the good, it can be possible in other relationships, pwBPD are not "wired" for that. Heck, I get caught up pretty much all the time, at least for a little while.

It's our "job", to not get caught up in the good (appreciate it completely though) and forget that this is more likely than not, just as fragile as a house of cards. It's hard to keep ourselfs grounded, we want them to be happy, to be able to enjoy every aspect of life to it's fullest, we want them to see life as we do, we want them to be what we know they can/could be.

It took us a few years to get our relationship on track and running smoothly, right now, I can honestly say that BPD is not his biggest challenge. Like he tells me everyday:"Mentally I'm good, physically I'm screwed (he has cirrhosis due to alcoholism and a double hernia in the last vertebra)". My job right now is to enjoy this moment of peace but keep my eye out for any signs of it falling apart.

[eeyore]

I still want for the best for you (what you want)... . I just find it sad.

[Katy-Did]

Peacebaby:   How's it going? 

[peacebaby]

Peacebaby:   How's it going? 

Okay.

[Katy-Did]

Just checkin'... .  

[peacebaby]

Thanks, I guess. "Okay" is a pretty meaningless response.

[cult]

Just saw this thread and I have a couple of thoughts.

In early 2012 I stumbled on a blog my ex-partner created where she made many very hurtful, awful statements about me and my family (which to be honest, I've blotted out both due to time and horror) and said she wanted to break up with me, but didn't know how to tell me. I busted her and told her she could leave right then if she wanted. She burst into tears, told me she didn't know what she was doing/thinking/saying, that she didn't feel that way anymore, and that she loved me. I forgave her because crap, what else could I do? At that point I had invested nine years in the relationship. I loved her. Deeply. She was the center of my world. It was unthinkable to be without her. She'd never said or done anything like that before. So I forgave her. I believed it was a one time incident. I needed it to be a one time incident. We lasted another year before the same situation basically happened again, only this time it was combined with an eating disorder and the recent re-discovery of a rape that happened 20 years prior. At least at first I thought that was what it was. But on reflection I am forced to accept the fact that my ex was never honest with me about how she felt, what she needed, and who she was. She didn't have a self, she was just a reflection of who she sensed I needed her to be. The result for us was that she moved 1700 miles away and we now have no contact. 

A month ago, I unexpectedly met someone very special. We've been dating since then and I have to say that while at the time my ex's departure from my life seemed like the absolute worst thing that had ever happened to me, viewed in light of recent events (doing work on myself to get honest about what happened with the ex, strengthening myself and my resolve, and now meeting my new GF) it was actually something very necessary. Life has opened to me in a way I never anticipated and could never have even imagined. So sometimes endings really are beginnings, even if we don't understand them.

You have my hugs and my support. This isn't easy. If my experience is anything to go by, the early warning signs of disconnection by a partner - statements of discontent, flirtations or physical/emotional involvements with third parties, etc. - even when accompanied by denial and tears as was the case in my situation - must be taken seriously. I can't say I would have made a different choice but in the end, all I did was stall off the inevitable for a bit longer.

Hope this helps.

Cult

[peacebaby]

You have my hugs and my support. This isn't easy. If my experience is anything to go by, the early warning signs of disconnection by a partner - statements of discontent, flirtations or physical/emotional involvements with third parties, etc. - even when accompanied by denial and tears as was the case in my situation - must be taken seriously. I can't say I would have made a different choice but in the end, all I did was stall off the inevitable for a bit longer.

In 12 years this only happened once--she kissed a young man three times. Though I do not trust her on many levels, I believe her on this. The explanations of the emails I read were pretty clear.

She IS communicative about what she wants and who she is.

But I will not let myself fall further into the trap of defending her on this board. Just because she's better than most others with BPD DOES NOT MEAN SHE IS GOOD ENOUGH FOR ME.

I am tired of her selfishness, her rages, her condescension, her laziness, her defensiveness. Even if she's not like that most of the time it is NOT GOOD ENOUGH FOR ME. Comparing her to others on this board has been a terrible mistake for me. I realize now that if I hadn't found this board I would have broken up with her YEARS ago instead of thinking, oh, for someone with BPD she's pretty wonderful.

We talk about breaking up all the time. She almost moved out yesterday but of course didn't. She turns all the crap she spews on me into hatred for herself instead of the desire to make it up to me, to make it better.

But we're still in love. I just want to live without her and see where  it takes us, enjoy what it feels like to be alone again. These 9 months of her being confined to the apartment have been a living hell. Fingers crossed I win my upcoming personal injury lawsuit.

[eeyore]

 

Your posts through my journey have been helpful to me.  I only wish for you to find what makes you content, peaceful, and some happiness.  Please tell me what I can do better to be supportive of you.   

Taking some time for yourself sounds like a great idea.  I guess the question is how can that be accomplished best? 

I've stayed at my office for a couple of weeks rather than going home and I feel so much better.  Having a comfy place that I can regroup has been good for me.  My office has a bedroom and bathroom suite and a kitchen.  We have been talking on the phone respectfully to one another and try to schedule time together.  It's about making me comfortable at the moment 

[peacebaby]

Hi Eeyore. I don't process support well.

At this point our finances are beyond dire. I've borrowed all the money I could to get us through her 9 month confinement (during which she could have found a job she could do from home and refused to do so). Yesterday we applied for an emergency loan from the city. They call finger printing finger imaging and I had that done, then found out we need way more stuff, I can't find my ss card or my birth certificate, and then there's some kind of meeting where they evaluate us to see if we can pay them back. The fact that C doesn't have a job yet, and half my wages are off the books, worries me that we won't get the loan. I mean, me, because my name is on the lease. So we're on the verge of being evicted, which actually would be a good way to get away from C.

And then there's my mother with all her non-liquid money who acts like it's the end of the world when I ask her for a loan--even though I pay her back at the same rate the gov't would want me to. The fact that she is such a withholding, self-centered person is not any fun. Lots of times I wish my 75 year old mother was the kind that baked cookies and tried to make you feel better when you're sad. But that's just not her.

Whatever the case, I need to live apart from C. Last night she broke a lamp that had two bulbs in it and I explained that's why I don't trust her alone with the cats--she doesn't care about cleaning p broken glass as much as a cat owner should.

Anyway, point is, I've gotten myself into a sh!tty situation and here I am. I make enough money to share an apartment with someone who also makes enough money, and I need to do that. I can't suffer like this for her financial problems anymore. The person I used to be would be scandalized that I would ever use public assistance in any way.

Anyhow, C is bhity today, except when I tell her again that it's clear we need to be apart. Then she gets ally crying but DOES NOT CHANGE HER BEHAVIOR OTHERWISE. She's about to see a counselor through my work program. No point in crossing fingers anymore.

Jesus I have so had it. But I've got  my living room with the view of trees and sky and I've got my computer and lots of stuff to do today. Now that she can walk with her special boot, she should be all happy and running around and seeing friends, but she's all sad in the bedroom getting caught up in bullhit instead of trying to save any semblance of this relationship.

All my new passwords are positive affirmations about the future.

[nevaeh]

Now comes the more important part of my post (I think):  Even though you fully understand how and why she feels what she feels, you need to grant her complete freedom and responsibility for those feelings.  Just as you are in charge of your own feelings, she is in charge of and responsible for her own.

I think this is extremely profound and a VERY important thing to remember when working through our issues.  I do spend a lot of time thinking that I am entitled to feel like the victim and that H is just wrong because he is the cause of my troubles.

However, you are right, he is entitled to feel how he feels!  I think that is where the disconnect comes in.  I (we all) have to realize that no matter how "wrong" we think our pwBPD is, they are who they are and they believe what they believe.  For me, this is exactly WHY I need to divorce my uBPDh.  My feelings about how he treats me will not change and I don't want them to because that would mean that I continue to be complacent and accepting of his behavior.  He will not change because he doesn't see that he does anything wrong.  Is that a problem for me? YES!  Is it a problem for him?  Maybe or maybe not, but eventually he will need to figure that out for himself.  I have to learn from my behavior as well, and make 100% sure that I don't make the same mistakes with any potential future relationships. 

It used to be that the "good" times made up for the bad in our marriage. I used to be good at separating his bad behavior from his good behavior.  I can't do it anymore and my resentment is just not going to go away.  I have tried to let things go but I'm just not able to do that anymore.  This is why I have to separate myself from him.  No matter what changes he might try to make at this point, it is just too late. It is simply a realization that we are not good for each other.  The combination of US does not work.  Maybe he will meet someone who can either tolerate his moods/rages or who will be less understanding/accepting/passive and will not "allow" him to be that person.  I just know that person is not me.

Anyway, I think this is a super important thing to remember/understand and I'm really glad you posted this comment!

[peacebaby]

See, my partner only believes the crazy things when she's dysregulated. When she's normal, she knows she's crazy and apologizes for those things. Until she gets crazy again... . She's a really unique specimen--I think there are truly parts of her brain that are wrong in a way DBT didn't help. A physical thing. She's looking into it.

My other problem is I DO think that, if we lived apart, our relationship would work. It is at least worth a try--not fighting over housework, not taking out our daily crap on each other, appreciating the time we have together. Both healing from what's happened, and hopefully ending up healthier and still together, though still perhaps with separate abodes. Lots of people live like that. Because I actually do think we belong together, that we're right for each other, we just need to cool off and get out of this hate cycle. You can't do that when you're living together.

The idea of living without her used to scare me but it doesn't anymore. I just need my own place where I'm safe and I make my own rules and no one yells at me.