Hi PeaceBaby,
This is a long thread (for me), so I'm going to work backwards from the most recent post to the earliest post and see how far I can get.
See, my partner only believes the crazy things when she's dysregulated. When she's normal, she knows she's crazy and apologizes for those things. Until she gets crazy again... . She's a really unique specimen--I think there are truly parts of her brain that are wrong in a way DBT didn't help. A physical thing. She's looking into it.
I disagree with this account. She *believes* the "crazy things" when she *devalues* you which for all you know it is most of the time when she is *not* with you. When she's with you, she's "normal" or rather she acts the way you know her to be... . but that may not necessarily be her "normal." I think a good way of looking at it is... . how often are you physically with her, and if that constitutes the majority of her time... . then I would accept that her "normal" is how she spends most of the time perceiving you.
The fact that she alternates between idealizing you and devaluing you (i.e., crazy, dysregulated) means that her DBT skills aren't at a level in which she can cope with the emotions she feels as it relates to you. Her DBT is helping her cope (productively) with her emotions to a degree.
There is a good chance that when she is with you, she isn't telling you how much trouble she is having coping productively with the feelings being with you is generating in her. A sign that this is the case is if she is having more and more episodes of dysregulation. And this doesn't count the times she feels this way when you are not around.
My other problem is I DO think that, if we lived apart, our relationship would work. It is at least worth a try--not fighting over housework, not taking out our daily crap on each other, appreciating the time we have together.
Intellectually, she might agree to this and see this as a helpful event in your relationship. But my guess is that at some level she's going to react to this possibly as full on abandonment... . which she may be inviting. And I think you have to consider the possibility that she will take this opportunity to enmesh in another relationship.
If she is inviting this break, there is the possibility that she is asking that you "abandon" her so this way she no longer has to deal with the possibility that she is just *imagining* this abandonment. This is assuming she no longer has a good grasp of her disordered feelings and thoughts.
On the other hand, if she can handle the change to living apart, then she is much further along her recovery that I am imagining. And that kind of distance may in fact help her in that she will have to deal less with her disordered feelings as they relate to you. But that is neither here or there, if this relationship is no longer working for you.
Anyhow, C is bhity today, except when I tell her again that it's clear we need to be apart. Then she gets ally crying but DOES NOT CHANGE HER BEHAVIOR OTHERWISE. She's about to see a counselor through my work program. No point in crossing fingers anymore.
I think that is a good observation that you can see that in spite of being upset, she is unmotivated to change her behavior, which makes me think that she has given up on using her DBT skills some time ago. After all the BT stands for "behavioral therapy." Behavioral therapy is all about changing one's behaviors.
Jesus I have so had it. But I've got my living room with the view of trees and sky and I've got my computer and lots of stuff to do today. Now that she can walk with her special boot, she should be all happy and running around and seeing friends, but she's all sad in the bedroom getting caught up in [bullshevik] instead of trying to save any semblance of this relationship.
Sounds to me that C is no longer concerned with how her current choices and behaviors impacts her future. She is living purely in the moment?
In 12 years this only happened once--she kissed a young man three times. Though I do not trust her on many levels, I believe her on this. The explanations of the emails I read were pretty clear.
I think it is more significant that you don't trust her "on many levels." You don't trust her, and she does not seem to be motivated or perhaps capable or earning back that trust? If that is the case, then what future can you possibly expect with her?
She IS communicative about what she wants and who she is.
Is she communicative about her understanding who you are and what you need? Ask yourself, if she had to choose between fulfilling her wants and sacrificing these wants in order to help you get what you want, what do you think she would do? Sure it's fine when both your wants and needs coincide, but what happens when they don't?
But I will not let myself fall further into the trap of defending her on this board. Just because she's better than most others with BPD DOES NOT MEAN SHE IS GOOD ENOUGH FOR ME.
If she is not good enough for you, then it is your prerogative to act on this. It is also perfectly reasonable that somewhere between when you first became committed to her and now, that you've changed in a way that you realize that your needs have changed also. And if you are not getting enough of what you need in this relationship, you have to ask yourself, why are you still in this relationship?
I am tired of her selfishness, her rages, her condescension, her laziness, her defensiveness. Even if she's not like that most of the time it is NOT GOOD ENOUGH FOR ME. Comparing her to others on this board has been a terrible mistake for me. I realize now that if I hadn't found this board I would have broken up with her YEARS ago instead of thinking, oh, for someone with BPD she's pretty wonderful.
I'm sorry that perhaps because you've been able to compare your relationship with the others on these boards, that that has allowed you to persist in a relationship you wouldn't have otherwise wanted for yourself. But in the defense of these boards, no one here is appropriately aware of what is good enough for you, except you. Nor would I think that anyone here has ever suggested that you stay with someone in spite of them not being good enough for you, just because her relative behavior is commendable.
We talk about breaking up all the time. She almost moved out yesterday but of course didn't. She turns all the crap she spews on me into hatred for herself instead of the desire to make it up to me, to make it better.
Perhaps it serves her to "hate" herself because that (at least in the past) elicits a sympathetic response out of you?
But we're still in love.
You're still in love. I don't think it is fair (to yourself) for you to assume you know how she is feeling; you only know how she is feeling sometimes. I think you should protect yourself by accepting that your attachment to her is nothing like the attachment she has towards you. Protect yourself, or else you will find out the hard way.
I just want to live without her and see where it takes us, enjoy what it feels like to be alone again. These 9 months of her being confined to the apartment have been a living hell. Fingers crossed I win my upcoming personal injury lawsuit.
I think it is fair that you should want to live life without her, especially if she has given up her efforts to manage her own disorder. You should not be expected to carry a weight that she refuses to carry herself.
It always goes back to how much I am willing to sacrifice and endure for love.
You are willing to sacrifice and endure for love. Isn't love supposed to, in return, also sacrifice and endure? It is not fair to expect back what you are willing to put into it?
Anyway, as always, I say things about her that hurt and end up feeling like I need to defend her and myself. That's one of the many not so useful things about this board. I don't want to defend her, I'd like to complain about her more, about how fvcked up our relationship is. Whatever, I am not very good at emotional honestly.
Why do you feel the need to defend her? Who are you truly here (on these boards) for? You or her?
Why don't you allow yourself the right to complain more about her? No one here is going to communicate anything you say to her and anyone that might be remotely connect to her? Heck, I don't even know who you are IRL but less who she is. But I can listen to you, read what you write, and offer you sympathy, compassion and opinion if that is helpful for you. Ultimately I, or we, are here to validate you and your experience. But we can't do that if you censor yourself. And I'm just saying that you don't have to, in order to... . whatever your reasons are.
My partner and I have worked very hard and had many positive turning points. Unless something new has happened here, Steph is the ONLY PERSON who has a true success story.
Again, I disagree. As far as I'm concerned, anyone here who has learned a way to come to terms with the nature of this disorder and how it impacts their loved one, *is* a success story. It doesn't matter if they've decided they can no longer be with their loved one, or if they've found that limited contact with their loved one is what works, or that they've found that so long as their disordered loved one is in recovery, they choose to stay in their relationship. We are all here for each other. Not for our disordered loved ones.
And some of our loved ones may end up with a "success story" on their own. Just not on our watch. Who knows. Life holds many possibilities.
Her partner got well and is still well. They were able to separate and heal and get back together and he had only BPD. My partner has many mental illnesses, successfully completed DBT, and we have much better communication than almost any other couple I have EVER heard of on this board. Sometimes all the turning points in the world are not enough. The healthier I get, the more I realize that this board has helped me stay in my relationship--if I didn't find out about BPD, and that others were in way worse situations, I would probably have left her years ago. Instead it gave me compassion, and gave her a way to start to get it together. All relationships go back and forth with how one feels about them
Again, I'm sorry if this board has helped you make a decision for yourself that you have now come to regret. But frankly I think the decision you made was the right one for you at that time. Just as it is now perhaps no longer the right decision for you. I think that everything you've learned about this disorder will serve you in the long run. But right now, this is probably not so important to you because you have a lot of pain ahead of you and I think there are other parts of these boards that can help you with what you have ahead of you. Or you can choose another way for yourself. Either way is fine. I trust that you can make the right decision for yourself.
Best wishes, Schwing
