Would be nice

[Before you can make things better, you have to stop making them worse...]

Wouldn’t it be nice if you could sit down with the ex BPD. And really let them have all the anger and hurt they caused you. And in this imaginary dream I must be having. (Cause I know it will never happen). They would actually admit that they did lie, and cheat, on you. That everything you accuse them of doing in the relationship, they take full responsibility for, and give you an honest apology. And after you have vented your anger they would tell you. “ Now go, because I will never change for you.” Not sure it would help. But it’s better than what I got. Nothing 

[dangoldfool]

Wouldn’t it be nice if you could sit down with the ex BPD. And really let them have all the anger and hurt they caused you. And in this imaginary dream I must be having. (Cause I know it will never happen). They would actually admit that they did lie, and cheat, on you. That everything you accuse them of doing in the relationship, they take full responsibility for, and give you an honest apology. And after you have vented your anger they would tell you. “ Now go, because I will never change for you.” Not sure it would help. But it’s better than what I got. Nothing 

[obtunded]

They would actually admit that they did lie, and cheat, on you. That everything you accuse them of doing in the relationship, they take full responsibility for, and give you an honest apology.

If they did this, they wouldn't be borderlines, would they?

[danley]

Yes it would be nice. But as noted, if they were able to do that they wouldn't be borderline. In the last two months my ex and I have had a few conversations which dipped into deep emotional stuff. And when he's in this mood of vulnerability with me I feel he is crying out for help. But I know I cannot truly help him as it's something he needs to initiate on his own. Unfortunately he will never be able to successfully get past the shame and fears he has if he doesn't acknowledge and take responsibility instead of burying it further within.

During these deep conversations my ex has had the lucidity to apologize immediately and coherently for things. They are small but important things but he has apologized with sincerity and remorse. As an example, an apology for not being thoughtful or for not being understanding towards me. It is a small step from what he was months ago and I am appreciative of his cognizant efforts. I don't think he will go the extra mile and actually apologize for the major things he done and said to me after our breakup. But it IS nice to even hear him be apologetic and see/hear the empathy. I don't know why he's been this way more frequently with me but I think it might have something to do with the fact that he's constantly reminding me of what a good person I am and what s big heart I have. Also he's been talking more about our relationship past and how he felt so safe and comfortable. I didn't say anything back and just told him to hang in there.

My ex does talk about all his fears and joys with me. He listens when I talk of mine. But my time in the spotlight doesn't last long because he somehow reverts to something about himself. It does feel one sided but I know that he's not nearly healthy enough to truly empathize with my situations because he's so focused on his. I do not mention anything about our breakup. If I did I imagine he'd go into a downward spiral and we'd be back at square one and the rages and mood swings would begin. I think right now he's in denial mode of sorts and would rather move on and forget all the hurtful things he's done and said to me. But YES. IT WOULD BE NICE if we could sit and talk like adults... . openly and non judgmental like we used to before.

[Notthesame64]

he's not nearly healthy enough to truly empathized with my situations because he's so focused on his.

Boy Danley, that is such a accurate statement!  The more I read other posts the more I connect the dots... . the more I can rationalize.  Mine is so wrapped up in his life, his situation, his demons and illnesses... (and always has), that he will never see the forrest for the trees... . and that is what I need to learn to accept.

[Bananas]

yes and it would be nice if my dogs crapped $20 bills.    but seriously, i used to fantasize about this scenario quite often. 

danley, your ex seems somewhat self aware.  that is a good thing.

i don't think this will ever happen with mine.  he has very heavy narc traits. the closest thing i ever got to an apology was "i am sorry but i didn't do anything wrong" or something like that.  So yeah, pretty much nothing. 

[left4good]

I'll offer something.

Its one thing to sincerely apologize and fess up to the atrocities that they've put us through. I've  gotten that. Yes my fellow nons I've reached the peak and it was majestic. 

Here's the but... . pwBPD can have moments of clarity where they can actually be accountable, empathetic and sincere. Where their curse lies is that They're forever destined to repeat their mistakes. Unlike us, they cannot stop the repetitive cycle of chaos. Mine apologized. Mine came clean. Mine took about two months full of everything I could dish out both clinically and emotionally.  And for a long time... . she gave her damnedest to make hit good. She sincerely loves me and our family. I have no doubt that if I had tolerance shed stay forever by my side. Then BPD and its core rears its ugly head and without warning to her or I... . she lies and then manipulates and lies some more and then cheats and then forces me to make decisions. 

And then she blames me for all of it. 

The fantasy is nice but the reality sucks.

Left

[Hard2btough]

I am in the process of finalizing selling him the house I bought for him and his daughters. I stood up for myself finally and I did get the chance to tell him everything he did to me and to my children in the two years I was with him.  He is also a Narc, so he really had me hooked, I am trying to stay tough and untangle myself,

To the point now, I did tell him all the things, the response was... .

You are attacking me and this is a business transaction we have no relationship... . and we need to conclude this, this is not a emotional conversation our relationship is over... .

My response was yes I agree are you trying to convince me or yourself I get it and I couldn't agree more. I think I was the one ended it with you.

So... . Hung up... . cried like a baby, felt just empty and truly sad and wish I would have never fallen for this person, he never cared about me.

That's tough... . realizing you tried and invested and are left empty...

Stay tough... . Coming here to say it feels good, just to get it out... .

[MammaMia]

Left

Once we are educated and understand EXACTLY what BPD is and what the future holds for its victims, it is decision time.  We either suck it up and stay, knowing full well life with our BPD loved one will be an on-going hell that we either accept and commit to ... . or we get out.  We leave or they leave us.

To stay is a huge emotional commitment.  From reading all the posts here about

relationships fraught with torment, heartbreak, and betrayal, I believe it is safe to say that BPD has multiple victims... . not just one.  Some ex-partners of pwBPD are emotionally scarred.  Eventually, they are able to recover, learn from the relationship, accept it for what it is, and move on.

THIS is the reality of BPD.  Yes, it would be nice if it was not so... . but it is what it is.   Anyone involved with a pwBPD needs to be very thick skinned and resilient because pwBPD actually use the sensitivity of nons to their advantage.

[LoneWolf768]

Okay (laughs), I clearly didn't mean for my entire post to be in small print. My apologies!


dangoldfool, I did just that to my ex BPd'er. I gave her back every amount of mental and emotional abuse she gave me. Here's what I told her. I took these paragraphs from a previous board I posted on titled "No Contact Mode and Future Contacts By a Borderline - Part 1":

"I sent emails to her explaining that I wasn't the sole person to blame for the demise of the relationship, that she needed to take responsibility for the things she did wrong and I put it in writing what exactly she contributed and failed to contribute. I was as thorough as I could be and while I had and still don't have an problem admitting my faults, I expected her to admit hers and plainly explained what they were. I said she needed to look in the mirror and take a good, hard look at herself and those in her mother-in-laws house (her husband, whom she says she hasn't had any sort of emotional connection to since 2004, her daughter and her sister-in-law all live there also)."

"After a few days of her not making the effort to own up to her end of everything, I finally had enough. I figured I'd say what I was feeling at the time. I layed into her with no regret. Said she was lazy and a parasite (she doesn't work nor drives and doesn't want her mother-in-law driving her to work because 'I don't want to have to listen to her mouth to and from work', said she was a drama queen and a control junkie, a below average mother, that she was sick, a cutter (she cut her leg and sent me the picture), told her she was either an alcoholic or close to being one, reminded her she had all these plans for us to have weekend getaways and she made promise after promise to introduce me to her daughter AND her family but all we ever did was go to the local bar and have sex in my car or a motel room and she turned the relationship into me being her FWB, she had the characteristics of someone with borderline personality disorder and she should seek psychological counseling and perhaps medication (she claims she takes a 'cocktail' of meds but as far as I know they're for her heart and maybe her PTSD and if she's taking this 'cocktail' of meds AND drinking, I'd say she's playing with fire)."

What happened after I sent these emails to her was this overwhelming sense of regret and guilt I felt for retaliating. I mean, I was already beating myself up for letting her berate and insult me the way she did... . and then when I defended myself and fought back, I felt bad about it!

Yes, in a perfect world with perfect people, our ex BPD'ers would own up to their mistakes and make the effort to fix them or minimize them. That's one way you build a team. But this woman, like practically EVERY if not ALL BPD'ers, will NEVER acknowledge any wrong doing. To borrow a quote, 'Never will a Borderline take ownership of their failings/flaws. Never. Closure allows a meeting of souls, a healing acknowledgment of each person's part in the demise of the relationship, and an opportunity for both to learn from their mistakes. No such thing will ever exist for the Borderline. Oh, you may receive a perfunctory "I'm sorry," but there is never genuine remorse.'

If you can ever get your BPD'er to acknowledge that it does indeed take 2 to make it and 2 to break it, get it on tape or in writing. You may be the FIRST person to break down a BPD'er and make him/her actually develop a conscience...

[LoneWolf768]

Okay (laughs), I clearly didn't mean for my entire post to be in small print. My apologies!


dangoldfool, I did just that to my ex BPd'er. I gave her back every amount of mental and emotional abuse she gave me. Here's what I told her. I took these paragraphs from a previous board I posted on titled "No Contact Mode and Future Contacts By a Borderline - Part 1":

"I sent emails to her explaining that I wasn't the sole person to blame for the demise of the relationship, that she needed to take responsibility for the things she did wrong and I put it in writing what exactly she contributed and failed to contribute. I was as thorough as I could be and while I never had and still don't have any problem admitting my faults, I expected her to admit hers and plainly explained what they were. I said she needed to look in the mirror and take a good, hard look at herself and those in her mother-in-laws house (her husband, whom she says she hasn't had any sort of emotional connection to since 2004, her daughter and her sister-in-law all live there also)."

"After a few days of her not making the effort to own up to her end of everything, I finally had enough. I figured I'd say what I was feeling at the time. I layed into her with no regret. Said she was lazy and a parasite (she doesn't work nor drives and doesn't want her mother-in-law driving her to work because 'I don't want to have to listen to her mouth to and from work', said she was a drama queen and a control junkie, a below average mother, that she was sick, a cutter (she cut her leg and sent me the picture), told her she was either an alcoholic or close to being one, reminded her she had all these plans for us to have weekend getaways and she made promise after promise to introduce me to her daughter AND her family but all we ever did was go to the local bar and have sex in my car or a motel room and she turned the relationship into me being her FWB, she had the characteristics of someone with borderline personality disorder and she should seek psychological counseling and perhaps medication (she claims she takes a 'cocktail' of meds but as far as I know they're for her heart and maybe her PTSD and if she's taking this 'cocktail' of meds AND drinking, I'd say she's playing with fire)."

What happened after I sent these emails to her was this overwhelming sense of regret and guilt I felt for retaliating. I mean, I was already beating myself up for letting her berate and insult me the way she did... . and then when I defended myself and fought back, I felt bad about it!

Yes, in a perfect world with perfect people, our ex BPD'ers would own up to their mistakes and make the effort to fix them or minimize them. That's one way you build a team. But this woman, like practically EVERY if not ALL BPD'ers, will NEVER acknowledge any wrong doing. To borrow a quote, 'Never will a Borderline take ownership of their failings/flaws. Never. Closure allows a meeting of souls, a healing acknowledgment of each person's part in the demise of the relationship, and an opportunity for both to learn from their mistakes. No such thing will ever exist for the Borderline. Oh, you may receive a perfunctory "I'm sorry," but there is never genuine remorse.'

If you can ever get your BPD'er to acknowledge that it does indeed take 2 to make it and 2 to break it, get it on tape or in writing. You may be the FIRST person to break down a BPD'er and make him/her actually develop a conscience...

[causticdork]

I'll offer something.

Its one thing to sincerely apologize and fess up to the atrocities that they've put us through. I've  gotten that. Yes my fellow nons I've reached the peak and it was majestic. 

Here's the but... . pwBPD can have moments of clarity where they can actually be accountable, empathetic and sincere. Where their curse lies is that They're forever destined to repeat their mistakes. Unlike us, they cannot stop the repetitive cycle of chaos. Mine apologized. Mine came clean. Mine took about two months full of everything I could dish out both clinically and emotionally.  And for a long time... . she gave her damnedest to make  good. She sincerely loves me and our family. I have no doubt that if I had tolerance shed stay forever by my side. Then BPD and its core rears its ugly head and without warning to her or I... . she lies and then manipulates and lies some more and then cheats and then forces me to make decisions. 

And then she blames me for all of it. 

The fantasy is nice but the reality sucks.

Left

This is almost EXACTLY what I was going to respond.  Mine had a lot of moment of clarity.  She knew something was wrong with her, she knew she needed to talk to a therapist.  There were dozens of times where I said we both had things we needed to work on and she would respond that she and I both knew da*n well that she was the problem and she was the one messing everything up.  I know that sounds like exactly what most of you would love to have from your BPDex, but it just never sticks.  One day she's tearfully apologizing for ruining everything beautiful that we shared, and then an hour later she's blaming me for everything that's wrong and refusing to see how much she contributed to our demise.  They don't have emotional regularity.  I think it would have been easier to walk away if she hadn't had those moments of clarity. 

The first time I mentioned breaking up as a serious possibility and laid down a strict set of boundaries if she wanted to stay together, I got about week of her opening up and being completely real with me. She came clean for the lies and told me things I never thought she'd be able to admit.  It took eight days for her to find something incredibly stupid to paint me black over and start a huge fight. The next day she was apologetic, but she didn't fully accept the blame for the tantrum she'd thrown out of nowhere.  We spent three weeks cycling back and forth between happy and miserable at the drop of a hat, and in the end it had gotten to the point where the happy times weren't that great, and we couldn't go 24 hours without a fight.  Even though she knew she had a problem.  Even though she recognized it and admitted it and desperately wanted to make it better, in the end it was stronger than us.  Sometimes I wish she never would have had those moments of clarity.  They gave me so much hope for something that could never really be.

[dangoldfool]

left4good, Braveheart768

Sounds as if you came as close to venting your feelings with your BPD.

But as was mentioned, even if you have a little success, the after taste still sucks. Thanks for sharing you experiences.   

[left4good]

Her supposed clarity lasted for quite awhile. I mean a year or so.  We were broken up for almost 8 months, co-parenting with limited to no communication and then came the phone call.  Left, I'm trying to make right the wrongs I've done and going to the important people in my life and apologizing.  I laughed a little at first.  I mean this was the most torturous, brutal woman I'd ever met and she wanted to say she was sorry?  She pushed forward in a very clinical manner.

I listened. She had entered into therapy based on texts I'd sent her months prior and her world crumbling (which is also why she came back around to me).  At this point in time she was so fully aware of who she was, why she was this way and how to go forward.  But ultimately the disorder replaced the awareness and her old habits returned. I believe She's forever trapped without a choice.  She knows who she is and doesn't have the capacity to change it. 

This time around its not nearly as hard to walk away. Somewhere deep inside I've contemplated this day for the whole of the three years. I had a sense wed be here again. And maybe that perpetuated this in a way. I'm sure being more harsh and straightforward about the illness made it harder to cope within the relationship.

Whatever the case... . the hope is The toughest part to deal with. I want what's best for our children.  I'm going to get that without being in a relationship with her.

Left