Did they WANT to be treated badly?

[Take2]

Moonie your gran is a wise woman... .

very helpful thread... .

[mcc503764]

I don't know if they WANT to be treated badly. But they assume and anticipate that they will be treated badly. They believe it will happen to them. It becomes a self fulfilling prophecy of sorts. They end up subconsciously doing things that create their fears.

They self sabotage.  It still pisses me off to no end that everything would be going fine with my x and I and she literally would just create situations!

Or my favorite, she would find a way to pull my strings, or hit me with her subtle jabs, use jealousy, which would hurt me.  I then would act out, and she would get the DRAMA / CHAOS that she needs... . then she'd switch to "victim" mode and I would be the "monster!" OR she was able to switch to her "therapist mode," (she is a therapist,) and play the hero or the rescuer for the situation that SHE created in the first place!  This would save face to the family / friends, keep her appearance up, and ultimately help in painting me black! And of course, she would have the justification and support of the friends and family for her actions... . (leaving, cheating... . etc... )

Conversations with her were so completely circular.  I love the term "pretzel logic," because that's exactly what it was! 

I have a fairly firm grip on things now.  This board has definitely helped me in understanding this whole dynamic.  The stories we can all obviously relate to, and as with our BPD's, there is a pretty distinct pattern... . it's not just one big coincidence!

This understanding helps me tremendously!  I know what happened, I get it!  I see the games, the lies, the manipulations that she would use against me!  Bottom line, this person is not safe for me in ANY form... .

There will always be something behind her actions, an alterior motive of the sorts... . she CANNOT be trusted!  I've been betrayed in the most obscene manners, I've been completely disrespected, emotionally / mentally abused, bullied

At the end of the day, I don't think it's about THEM anymore.  I think we get addicted to the DRAMA / CHAOS ourselves?  I can't really see past all of that s&^t anymore and see anything about her that I care for, things that I admired about her... . or so I thought I did? I think she became a bad habit... . something comfortable... . etc

I am well aware of the reasons as to WHY I got into this in the first place, and I am working on those daily... . But I tell you what, this understanding helps me to put the pieces of the puzzle together.  I may not like it, but at least it makes sense to me now and I can live with that!

I feel as if I have spent the past 2 years conducting a psychological profile on a serial killer... .

Sorry for the rambling, if you took the time to read this, but I thank you!

MCC

[jippolito1969]

I do think on some fundamental level my exBPD wanted to be treated badly because that is how she grew up. She was abused sexually, verbally and physically most of her life, and continues to reenact this in her adult life with partners. I am pretty certain of her past history with other partners prior to me. She was married for 13 years, to a guy who is the father of her two children. They are "friends," kind of, although it is my sense he only hangs on for the kids sake, as they split custody. When I approached him about the behaviors I started to notice, he indicated not being comfortable talking about such matters, unless my exBPD knew about such a discussion. My reasons for asking him at the time was in hopes of having him provide me with strategies as how how I could better manage thing. Her ex-husband is a nice guy, but he pretty much avoids conflict with her now, keeping things as simple as possible for the childrens sake. Also, her oldest child has decided to no longer engage with my exBPD. The child lives full-time with dad and wants nothing to do with her mother, my ex-BPD. From what I do know is, my ex-BPD was similarly abusive towards two other dating partners (I have since talked with both of them) and two friends (one is someone who she considers her bestfriend, but they have a very emmessed, non-sexual relationship, and I know she has verbally and physically attacked him b/c my exBPD told me so, and another friend of hers who has become more my friend in the last number of months because he feels she is really messed up and unhealthy, they dated very briefly and then just becamse friends, and my exBPD also physicallly and verbally attacked him). My ex-BPD is now dating someone new, and I feel iti s only a matter of time before things get nasty. She has this amazing ability to put on the charm and also turn herself in the victim, garnishing support from these new people, and basically telling them that her "ex," was abusive. She did the same to me at first abut her ex before me, and with him about the ex before him. It's a cycle that never ends, and sadly, no one calls her out on it. She is a very conventionally attractive woman, and seeks out people who are easily convinced of these thigns because they are caretakers by nature, which is my case. I am now working hard in therapy to addresss why I allowed myself to stay in such a damaning situation and still, to this day, miss her. I now she is very unhealthy, even dangerous to me, but the self-blaming on my end continues. I want to believe I did everythinng I could, but nothing was ever good enough. She would even acccuse me of looking at her the wrong way sometimes and get rageful abotu that. Her rage was absolutely frigtening and often came of out left field. It was like walking on land minds much of the time, and when one went off, all hell broke loose. She would become mentally, verbally and physically abusive. She criticized things about me that could not be changed without major intervetion, like the sound o fmy voice, and woul find anything and everything to complain about. At this point, I am tired of making excuses for her based on a personality disorder. She is not stupid, and while much of her thinking is distorted, she does know right from wrong. She admitted to being wrong and hurting me, but has done nothing to change her behaivor and/or at least take steps. I feel as long as she finds another "object," to project her hit onto there is no real reason to change. I also feel like her "apoologies," are pretty half assed and are only ever said to ease her own guild or conscience. In all my years, I have never been in a relationshp like this. It was awlful and while I am still trying to pull all the pieces together and heal, I am glad to be out o it. I feel pretty confident that had I stayed she woudl have killed me, literally, because she was that volatile.

[musicfan42]

I'm starting to ask myself do WE nons want to be treated badly?

I firmly believe that codependency is self-destructive.

Us nons act like we want to be treated badly by:

-exhibiting codependent behaviors

-trying to rescue the borderline

-tolerating emotional abuse

-putting up with unacceptable behavior

-not taking care of our own needs

-taking their devaluation as a personal affront instead of stepping back and detaching and realizing that it's just something they do in every romantic relationship-that it doesn't reflect who we are as people, that it's just a borderline's distorted view of us and may or may not be true... that it is emotional reasoning... an opinion as opposed to an actual fact. Borderlines haven't learned that feelings are not facts


-enabling borderlines-making excuses for their bead behavior

-trying to solve the borderline's problems instead of making them take personal responsibility for their own lives

-trying to soothe the borderline when they really have to start soothing themselves

-deriving self-esteem from our role as rescuer/fixer instead of developing genuine self-esteem from having a core sense of self... . from our achievements, our experiences etc. as opposed to our ability to "fix" one person

-not listening to our gut instinct and instead giving the person the benefit of the doubt

-having too much loyalty towards the person yet not getting that same loyalty in return

-staying in a one-sided relationship where our needs are not being met


-not realizing that we deserve better... that we are worthy... that it's not our job to "fix" someone else... that everyone has to be responsible for themselves

-believing words over actions

-trying to fix someone over and over again despite the failure of past attempts... not learning from past experiences... repeating the same mistake over and over again

-not listening to well-being friends and family who tell us that the person is "bad news" and thinking that we know better... no, we don't... we need to take advice from other people and realize that we don't know everything

-trying to psychoanalyze a borderline even though we're not professionals... we don't have phDs, we're not a psychiatrist etc... it's NOT our job to analyze them and come up with explanations as to why borderlines do certain things

-not moving on... ruminating... thinking of the borderline instead of getting on with our own lives


I'm actually getting tired of threads where people focus solely on the borderline's behavior... what about our own behavior? Society use words like "doormat" and "walkover" to describe codependent behaviors and I think that needs to be discussed here more.

[Scout99]

I'm starting to ask myself do WE nons want to be treated badly?

I firmly believe that codependency is self-destructive.

Us nons act like we want to be treated badly by:

-exhibiting codependent behaviors

-trying to rescue the borderline

-tolerating emotional abuse

-putting up with unacceptable behavior

-not taking care of our own needs

-taking their devaluation as a personal affront instead of stepping back and detaching and realizing that it's just something they do in every romantic relationship-that it doesn't reflect who we are as people, that it's just a borderline's distorted view of us and may or may not be true... that it is emotional reasoning... an opinion as opposed to an actual fact. Borderlines haven't learned that feelings are not facts


-enabling borderlines-making excuses for their bead behavior

-trying to solve the borderline's problems instead of making them take personal responsibility for their own lives

-trying to soothe the borderline when they really have to start soothing themselves

-deriving self-esteem from our role as rescuer/fixer instead of developing genuine self-esteem from having a core sense of self... . from our achievements, our experiences etc. as opposed to our ability to "fix" one person

-not listening to our gut instinct and instead giving the person the benefit of the doubt

-having too much loyalty towards the person yet not getting that same loyalty in return

-staying in a one-sided relationship where our needs are not being met


-not realizing that we deserve better... that we are worthy... that it's not our job to "fix" someone else... that everyone has to be responsible for themselves

-believing words over actions

-trying to fix someone over and over again despite the failure of past attempts... not learning from past experiences... repeating the same mistake over and over again

-not listening to well-being friends and family who tell us that the person is "bad news" and thinking that we know better... no, we don't... we need to take advice from other people and realize that we don't know everything

-trying to psychoanalyze a borderline even though we're not professionals... we don't have phDs, we're not a psychiatrist etc... it's NOT our job to analyze them and come up with explanations as to why borderlines do certain things

-not moving on... ruminating... thinking of the borderline instead of getting on with our own lives


I'm actually getting tired of threads where people focus solely on the borderline's behavior... what about our own behavior? Society use words like "doormat" and "walkover" to describe codependent behaviors and I think that needs to be discussed here more.

Word! 

However our journeys to arrive to the point of understanding we or at least many of us are somewhat slaves to a co dependency behavior, sometimes need to go through an understanding of what the core of the borderline disorder is all about.

But I agree with you that our own parts in it need to be discussed more too! Maybe you should start a new thread on the topic?

From my own experience I was incredibly co dependent in my former r/s with a man with NPD. And it took a lot of therapy and heartache to come to realize that my own pattern of behavior was part of me both attracting people who would take advantage of my kindness and understanding, as well as where it all stemmed from. And arriving at a place of more balance and even allowing my self to have needs of my own, was a struggle to say the least.

However it did not stop me from enetring into yet another r/s with a man who turned out to be borderline. But! It sure has changed the way I have dealt with it. Both being in it as well as now leaving it... . I can at least today on my own part say with confidence that I never entered into co dependency with him, but instead realizing that the efforts He and I made to make things work still in the end was not enough for me... .

And in retrospect I can now say that both these relationships have proven to be helpful in me sorting out my issues with me. But for me at least understanding their respective different disorders have also been a big part of that.

Best Wishes

Scout99

[mcc503764]

I'm starting to ask myself do WE nons want to be treated badly?

I firmly believe that codependency is self-destructive.

Us nons act like we want to be treated badly by:

-exhibiting codependent behaviors

-trying to rescue the borderline

-tolerating emotional abuse

-putting up with unacceptable behavior

-not taking care of our own needs

-taking their devaluation as a personal affront instead of stepping back and detaching and realizing that it's just something they do in every romantic relationship-that it doesn't reflect who we are as people, that it's just a borderline's distorted view of us and may or may not be true... that it is emotional reasoning... an opinion as opposed to an actual fact. Borderlines haven't learned that feelings are not facts


-enabling borderlines-making excuses for their bead behavior

-trying to solve the borderline's problems instead of making them take personal responsibility for their own lives

-trying to soothe the borderline when they really have to start soothing themselves

-deriving self-esteem from our role as rescuer/fixer instead of developing genuine self-esteem from having a core sense of self... . from our achievements, our experiences etc. as opposed to our ability to "fix" one person

-not listening to our gut instinct and instead giving the person the benefit of the doubt

-having too much loyalty towards the person yet not getting that same loyalty in return

-staying in a one-sided relationship where our needs are not being met


-not realizing that we deserve better... that we are worthy... that it's not our job to "fix" someone else... that everyone has to be responsible for themselves

-believing words over actions

-trying to fix someone over and over again despite the failure of past attempts... not learning from past experiences... repeating the same mistake over and over again

-not listening to well-being friends and family who tell us that the person is "bad news" and thinking that we know better... no, we don't... we need to take advice from other people and realize that we don't know everything

-trying to psychoanalyze a borderline even though we're not professionals... we don't have phDs, we're not a psychiatrist etc... it's NOT our job to analyze them and come up with explanations as to why borderlines do certain things

-not moving on... ruminating... thinking of the borderline instead of getting on with our own lives


I'm actually getting tired of threads where people focus solely on the borderline's behavior... what about our own behavior? Society use words like "doormat" and "walkover" to describe codependent behaviors and I think that needs to be discussed here more.

SIMPLE ANSWER HERE-

Anyone who has been through this knows that when you're in it, you cannot possibly see it... . These r/s's change us to do things that we never found ourselves doing in the past!

The point behind this board is self discovery.  Had I ever encountered such a r/s prior, I wouldn't be here because I would understand what the HELL hit me!

Mature / rational people tend to want to understand things that have impact their lives!  That allows us to accept these things that we have been through, and focus on what WE did to contribute to the dynamic so we wont find ourselves in another situation like this again!

Do I "hate" my xBPD... . NO, I don't.  I do "hate" what I went through, what I allowed myself to tolerate, and my part in the equation... .

This ISN'T about my xBPD, THIS IS ABOUT ME!

So, it's not as simple as just forget about it and move on.  This is a process of recovery and understanding... .

Do you actually think if I had all of the skills that you listed prior to my BPD that I would have allowed this in my life?  That's kinda the POINT of this board isn't it?

Think before you speak... .

Thanks

MCC

[musicfan42]

SIMPLE ANSWER HERE-

Anyone who has been through this knows that when you're in it, you cannot possibly see it... . These r/s's change us to do things that we never found ourselves doing in the past!

The point behind this board is self discovery.  Had I ever encountered such a r/s prior, I wouldn't be here because I would understand what the HELL hit me!

Mature / rational people tend to want to understand things that have impact their lives!  That allows us to accept these things that we have been through, and focus on what WE did to contribute to the dynamic so we wont find ourselves in another situation like this again!

Do I "hate" my xBPD... . NO, I don't.  I do "hate" what I went through, what I allowed myself to tolerate, and my part in the equation... .

This ISN'T about my xBPD, THIS IS ABOUT ME!

So, it's not as simple as just forget about it and move on.  This is a process of recovery and understanding... .

Do you actually think if I had all of the skills that you listed prior to my BPD that I would have allowed this in my life?  That's kinda the POINT of this board isn't it?

Think before you speak... .

Thanks

MCC

I think that you may have misconstrued the intentions of my post. I did not intend my post to be a personal attack on anyone here. I have been codependent in many relationships and friendships mcc so I'm beginning to realize that I'm the problem-that I have a relationship pattern and that blaming other people is not solving my codependency issues. I was wondering whether other people have experienced the same phenomenon. Maybe saying "we nons" was a mistake-perhaps I ought to have said "I" as I can only speak for myself? 

I take Scout99's point that people feel the need to analyze borderline behavior on their journey to healing. I have been at that stage myself-I scoured the internet looking for all the information I could find on BPD. I understand the need to know answers-to ask myself "why?"

I also agree with Scout99 that I need to post a separate thread on this issue. These thoughts literally occurred to me as I read this thread. My post raised some challenging issues so of course it's bound to be divisive amongst members here. I understand that my post may have felt like pouring salt on your wound however it really wasn't my intention at all. I'm not advocating a position of "forget it and move on" by any means-if I was, why would I be on here?

[mcc503764]

Point taken, my apologies for the harshness in my response, as at the end of the day, we are ALL on the same journey trying to get the license plate # of the mack truck that just ran us over!

MCC