Why do I need her validation?

[Iamdizzy]

These past few months have been hectic. I don't know if this is worse than the drama of the BPD relationship sometimes. I had a dream with her last night, unfortunately, I was with a family member of mine who wanted to show me a picture of a mutual friend on Facebook when all of a sudden I see a picture of my BPDex and her new boyfriend with some ridiculously cliche love quote 2 months after we broke up. I kinda feel like I'm always taking 1 step forward and 2 steps back but every time I go back, it's not as serious as before.

Why do they paint us black? Why am I ignored?

Do the paint us black because their love (how ever crazy) for us scares them too much? Or because I got to see who's really behind the mask?

I guess the most frustrating and important question is WHY DO I CARE? WHY DO I FEEL LIKE I NEED VALIDATION FROM A SICK PERSON? WHY DO I WANT TO SEE THE PHONE RING WITH HER NUMBER? I would never pick it up but it would tell me - I AM ON YOUR MIND, I MEANT SOMETHING, ALL THE PAIN YOU PUT ME THROUGH AT LEAST I AM NOT JUST AN OBJECT YOU COULD DISCARD, IT WASN'T IN VAIN.

But seriously who cares? What's her calling/contacting me going to do? I guess it scares the Fxxk out of me that I need some sort of contact from her to know that I'm not forgotten. That I need some sort of validation that I meant something to her. I've been holding all of that inside. If anyone could relate- share your story/experience/advice... . I'd appreciate it!

With past non BPD ex (this is my first time) I left the relationship content and knowing, hey iamdizzy- you did the best you could, it didn't work out accept it. The reality here is when stories of rape, abusive ex boyfriends , horrible parents and friends, are an ever present topic in the relationship it changes the dynamic completely. When she would lose her mind because of any small stress at work, the man who raped her & the abusive ex boyfriends are not as bad as ME. perhaps it's because there is no closure from this relationship and I can't simply walk off and say well we both said whats on our mind.

[sadinnc98]

I wish I had the answers to your questions because I am feeling exactly how you are right now. I know it sucks, I know how hard it is. I talked for 90 mins in counseling today about all of this stuff that you described below.

As far as wanting them to call/contact because they are missing us or thinking of us... remember, they don't really feel like that the way that we do. They call or contact because they NEED something from us... . NEED... . validation, sex, company, arm candy, etc...

My ex has been on a dating website, and it is absolutely excruciating to know he was after other women while we were together and even freshly broken up-what was wrong with me? Why was I not good enough? I treated him like gold... I don't get it. 9 days ago he wanted to marry me... now I am alone?

I doubt I have helped you, but wanted to let you know that you are not alone in your struggles with this painful stuff

[Iamdizzy]

Sadinnc98- it is... . I hate that they contact us for their own benefit, not from a sentimental point. It's true. Sometimes that reality is that it's hard to accept that this is a disorder. We associate Healthy thinking with their logic. I thank you for your input, it's nice to know someone understands you

[ketch61]

I have the same problem, it has been a year since me and my ex-wife had a divorce, she basically used the fact that I was late for a week of buying her a ring she asked for and brought all the issues we supposedly  "solved" for the past two years, to prove that I cannot take care of her enough , love her enough ... . , any way since then I tried to heal , things went well meanwhile couple month ago I got an email from her asking how I am doing and a recommendation for job and then silence again. I never tried to contact her. A week ago I had dream of her and now I feel so depressed I want so much to contact her but I did not. I was hoping that after a year of NC I am safe and I can move on unfortunately I feel like I am trapped in this black whole.   

[HealingSlowly]

Yes, it is very difficult to wrap our heads/hearts around that contact is about their need in a moment and we know it because it changes instantly and there is no regard for our hearts or history together or the pain caused... . one minute we are getting married (and have told everyone) and the next minute it's all ripped down - immediate lives and futures. like nothing. For months I said no, this means that my ex loves me SOO much, that I am THE ONE and b/c he treated me badly he can't face it ... . but will... . This "dance" went on for ages and it NEVER changed. Each time I would think "no one would have just done X or Y if it didn't mean EVERYTHING."  Only it meant nothing - except about his needs in a moment and each one was fleeting... . The hardest part is trying to let go of figuring out WHO was really there when I thought and felt and experienced all the "good." But it wasn't real. I mean, it was but not on any normal terms. It is very painful... . It is so hard to keep it all in perspective since our hearts only want to see and believe in the good - I do not wish BPD on my ex at all. It is terrifying. And yet we are finally left with no choice. I have moved from being unable to imagine it was "this serious" to being unable to imagine that it is NOT. Because I know it is. I lived it. I am still living it. And if it's this hard for me - and I do believe that I am genuinely self-reflexive and have taken stock of my own co-dependence and been in long-term T (unlike my ex) - imagine how hard for the BPD - they cannot do this. Everything is in a moment of need. There is literally no regard for context, or the trajectory of things or what actually happened. It's as though I am not even a human being, until a moment of need but then I and our past and all we've been through (and my heart and stake in this or stake in my heart) is NOWHERE in sight. Not even there at all. It is truly bizarre and heartbreaking... . I wish my ex well at my most generous and compassionate moments. But I still rage. And yet I know that is a moot point. I would never rage at someone I know is not all there but I did not know. I genuinely did not know because of the "rational" part of my ex, who is intelligent and kind and was loving - ... . but again, I know know that was all about HIS need too. It was not the same kind of love I felt. Obviously. Who has a bad week and things are going well and rips worlds and hearts apart in a flash? And then does the push pull again for months with no regard for what actually HAPPENED. No one in the world I can survive in on any healthy terms... . And I think that is the only closure I am ever going to get finally. All best! So grateful as usual for this site... . All best!

[Trick1004]

The complete lack of closure or thanks for everything I did for her throughout the r/s has also been the hardest thing for me to deal with. I'm at the 12 week mark since she ended the r/s and I still can't believe her actions as she was ripping my heart out that night. Even though she didn't want a r/s with me anymore she still wanted to keep living with for a month after ending it.

At that point it was just too much and a deep part of me started realizing it was always about her and whatever she could get out of me to soothe herself. I told her if she wanted to leave then do it now and despite her best efforts to meet with me in person, I haven't seen or talked to her since then.

I left her a couple of letters in the first couple of weeks post-breakup saying how I wished her the best, wanted her to be happy, and despite the pain I was in would look fondly on the time I spent with her. I just got superficial responses one of which was "I hope we can meet because I can't imagine never seeing you again and I don't know what I want in the future either, but that is stuff to talk about in person". WTH is that? I see it as a way of trying to rope me back in to make her feel better about herself.

Whatever, as time goes on I don't wish her the best, don't care if she is happy, and am starting to see the r/s for what is was; hell for me. I just want her out of my life for good, the day she ended it was the day her happiness was no longer my concern. She made her choice and it's hers to live with. It is just a sign of her BPD that she is hoping we can remain friends and I will be there on the side whenever she needs me and then just discard me again.

This might sound harsh. I truly did love her and did everything I could to make her happy, but it was never enough and no one deserves to be treated the way she continually treated me for 3+ years. Everyday that goes by any kind of desire for closure is becoming less and less, I know she isn't capable of it and I'm growing tired of hoping it happens. I do feel bad that she has BPD but I'm not capable and don't want to deal with her and her BPD anymore.

[Tordesillas]

It's important to remember that while it's not consistent, they do have moments of clarity where they miss us, realize the way they treated us was wrong.  After all, their condition involves a lot of shame and I'm pretty sure a lot of that shame (in addition to their initial core shame) comes from realizing some of the terrible ways they've treated people.  Beyond that you can't expect much.  The condition usually takes over at that point and they do something to forget or dull the pain.  But for those brief moments, they really do get it.    Like i said, it's not much, but it's something. 

[Learning_curve74]

I realized that my ex couldn't be the person that I needed in my life as a partner to love and grow old with. I had to tell her why I didn't want to see her anymore, and that was as much "closure" as I will ever get, just letting her know what I felt even though all I could see was her sad empty stare of an abandoned child. She is very self-aware, so I think she actually understood but cannot bring herself to attempt to change her dysfunctional behaviors since they are now part of what little identity she has. Trapped in her own cage, such a waste. Just thinking about it now a wave of sadness passed through me.

[snappafcw]

This is a great thread thanks for starting it. It sums up all my feelings 100% as well. I do feel weak at times because its almost 8 months out for me and sometimes i play the what if i had done more in my head. Although I wasn't perfect and played my part i know i gave genuine unconditional love and did the very best i could. I think its important for everyone here to remember that and also remember our love and efforts are not returned so it should really be obvious what the problem is and its not us!

[HealingSlowly]

I too believe there are moments of clarity - but I am finding it hard to believe this is "normal" clarity or I still can't wrap by head/heart around how there could be one moment of clarity and then the same cruelty in a flash. So I am not sure or convinced it is REAL clarity at all... . Still the most heartbreaking part for me ... . sigh... .

[Ittookthislong]

I know how you feel. sometimes I think im crazy for wanting the validation so bad./ sometimes I think hes so cruel because it wouldn't take but a small conversation to ease my mind and let me move on (like a normal break up)

I feel like im being toyed with. that he liked=s not giving me closure and keeping me hanging on.

it hurts like hell I know. I think another reason it hurts is because, im scared now to let go in the future and just trust knowing tht there are people out there a=that shut off out of nowhere and disappear. im scared im going to become just as scared, commitmentphobic. I cant imagine because the better a relationship feels the more untrusting ill be. so I get mad that I now feel no hope.

if all this person had to do to give me hope for my future back is acknowledge me and they wont (I realize he doesn't get it, or think about it) but it feels evil.

and I should not care. don't be hard on yourself. how can someone not care? that would make you cold

[Tordesillas]

I too believe there are moments of clarity - but I am finding it hard to believe this is "normal" clarity or I still can't wrap by head/heart around how there could be one moment of clarity and then the same cruelty in a flash. So I am not sure or convinced it is REAL clarity at all... . Still the most heartbreaking part for me ... . sigh... .

The reason there can be clarity followed by immediate cruelty is BECAUSE of the BPD.  With clarity comes realization, with realization comes guilt and shame, which triggers the disorder, which causes the dysfunctional behaviour.  But those moments of clarity must be real.  If they weren't real, then there would be no shame and no triggering of the disorder.  

[Ittookthislong]

incidentally I have contacted him and its just as frustrating. every nice thing is followed by something degrading. for example, "I feel so sorry for what ive done to hurt you, that my heart drops, but im confused that your still thinking about this after so long it shouldn't be important to you anymore so please move on"

confusing.

BPD favorite word is "but... . "

[HealingSlowly]

Hi Tordesillas and others on this thread... . T: I totally hear you and I agree or want to ... wanted to? I am sincerely not sure if the shame is not STILL about them and only them ... . When there is no accountability for the other as a human being (it is that cold and callous and cruel), and if they get it for a second... . ... . And yet I know this is a circular argument too and I will never "know" BECAUSE of the BPD. But maybe it depends on the cruelty. I have seriously heard and seen things that I never thought possible of another human being... . But all this said, maybe I am afraid to hear or know that there are moments of clarity and they are REAL... . If only because I held onto this for so long and if I knew for sure this were the case, I might still hold on... . and even "partly" do... . Does that make sense? Thanks all!

[Tordesillas]

Hi Tordesillas and others on this thread... . T: I totally hear you and I agree or want to ... wanted to? I am sincerely not sure if the shame is not STILL about them and only them ... . When there is no accountability for the other as a human being (it is that cold and callous and cruel), and if they get it for a second... . ... . And yet I know this is a circular argument too and I will never "know" BECAUSE of the BPD. But maybe it depends on the cruelty. I have seriously heard and seen things that I never thought possible of another human being... . But all this said, maybe I am afraid to hear or know that there are moments of clarity and they are REAL... . If only because I held onto this for so long and if I knew for sure this were the case, I might still hold on... . and even "partly" do... . Does that make sense? Thanks all!

Ya you definitely don't want to cling to those moments of clarity.  They're just moments! We've all done that, I'm sure!

When it comes to understanding this aspect of the disorder I try to just look at the science of how it operates.  There doesn't seem to be any basis to say they have absolutely no concept of conscience or empathy, but instead that BPD makes their feelings and their needs WAY more important than those of others.  It's still a serious disorder and you definitely don't want to harbor any illusions about these "moments of clarity" but it wouldn't be fair to the people who suffer from BPD to be characterized as sociopaths... . even though their behaviour might make it seem that way sometimes!

[delusionalxox]

Thanks for this thread. This is the hardest thing for me too. To accept I will NEVER have closure.

I've shamed my uBPDex a lot because I am very straightforward and don't mince my words. I threatened his narcissism by telling him just how immature and irresponsible he was. He won't speak to me again now and has painted me entirely black, as a dangerous psycho.

I saw moments in him of intense shame but they were like splinters from the dominant self which lives only in the moment for the immediate validation it can get from others and the use it can make of them.

One of the posters on this thread had a PM exchange with me I hope they won't mind me quoting anonymously... they said the way they were left by their uBPDex was like an experience of pure evil. I would have to second that. I don't think my ex is an evil person. Rather the damage he carries and passes on to others who he manoeuvres and charms into caring for him (and I know I did that because of my own core damage which chimed with his) created a situation with  me where only coldness and destruction would result.

I feel i've aged internally (and probably externally) so much since this relationship. I've been through divorce and multiple other splits and  nothing came close to the cruelty and sheer f**ed up coldness of this.

I was split white 3 weeks before he dropped me (pregnant ) and that to me is the worst thing. The horrible evanescence of their emotions. The way they mimic 'true love', affection and unconditional regard. I was told I was his priority, he would do anything to fix this as long as we could both 'survive the fire' that arose between us... he promised me friendship forever. All lies.

The Rollins song 'Liar' helps  me here. 'I'm a liar and I'll lie again and again'. They just can't help it. I try to remember he just wasn't capable of any more and that might help me forgive eventually

[sadinnc98]

It's important to remember that while it's not consistent, they do have moments of clarity where they miss us, realize the way they treated us was wrong.  After all, their condition involves a lot of shame and I'm pretty sure a lot of that shame (in addition to their initial core shame) comes from realizing some of the terrible ways they've treated people.  Beyond that you can't expect much.  The condition usually takes over at that point and they do something to forget or dull the pain.  But for those brief moments, they really do get it.    Like i said, it's not much, but it's something. 

I do believe this to be true. There were times when he was in an "up" phase where he told me "he is no picnic" "has issues and is effed up" and that he knows that they way he treats me is "torturous to me" and even said that I am "perfect and wonderful... . its all him"  but these moments are very brief and fleeting and certainly not sustained because he flips the switch and does all of his horrific behaviors all over again. He drinks so often and to the excess, I know he is dulling the pain. One night he told me he was drinking beer to get drunk and Jack so he would forget everything.

[Iamdizzy]

I know for a fact that my BPDex has moments of clarity. Why? because I was there when she had those moments.


"I can't be with you, I'm bad for you. I'm messed up in the head"

"I have problems, I'm damaged"

"I made so and so leave because I'm a fxxked up person"

"I can't do this, I just can't do this anymore, I'm too messed up"

"I hate my parents, exboyfriends, and the guy who raped me because they fxxked me up"

"I need help"

But these realizations soon dissipate like a volitale substance. I know they do feel some sort of shame. It's just normal to want some sort of closure. It's understood that she's not good for me and absolutely not a person I want in my life for the rest of my life but I feel like I have so many emotions that I just have to "let go" because contacting her and telling her how I feel/felt would be futile. 

I figure the last time we spoke on the phone she was making her life seem the complete 180 from what I know it to be, "feeling so much better" "happier now than ever before" type of stuff. I told her she needs to find God/Psychologist and godspeed. I didn't know about BPD at that point. I just get so upset with myself. Stop trying feel validated by her, stop hoping for some sort of text/call, stop thinking if she misses you or not.

I just can't help it sometimes. I want to know that she is missing me or that she knows she messed up.  I hate this ambiguity

[Iamdizzy]

Worst of all, Although we know this is an illness and a facade. IT STILL HURTS WHEN THEY TRY TO MAKE THEIR LIFE SEEM AMAZING WITHOUT US. WHEN THEY ARE IN THE LOVE BOMBING STAGE, I'M TRYING TO SAY IT'S ALL AN ACT, IT'S ALL AN ACT BUT I CAN'T SEEM TO GRASP THAT RATIONALE YET

[sadinnc98]

I know for a fact that my BPDex has moments of clarity. Why? because I was there when she had those moments.


"I can't be with you, I'm bad for you. I'm messed up in the head"

"I have problems, I'm damaged"

"I made so and so leave because I'm a fxxked up person"

"I can't do this, I just can't do this anymore, I'm too messed up"

"I hate my parents, exboyfriends, and the guy who raped me because they fxxked me up"

"I need help"

But these realizations soon dissipate like a volitale substance. I know they do feel some sort of shame. It's just normal to want some sort of closure. It's understood that she's not good for me and absolutely not a person I want in my life for the rest of my life but I feel like I have so many emotions that I just have to "let go" because contacting her and telling her how I feel/felt would be futile. 

Your story is so like mine it is almost eerie-I heard those EXACT phrases just switched to a guy saying them.

[Iamdizzy]

Sadinnc98 and others- it's eerie to see the similarities between our stories. We need to take fault in this as well because we stayed. However, a huge part of the failure of the relationship is because of their behavior and their false delusion or their behemoth hesitation to seek help.

Perhaps it's our unresolved past issues, naïveté,  but we have the ability to work on this and improve. 

I jut hope that these moments of clarity however short lived they may be, is due to the pain they caused us and not about them! I don't wish horrible things on my ex because like I said I did play a part in it, I do want to reach a state of indifference.  But I do want her to feel the pain in her moments of clarity when she thinks about me I know she lives in tremendous amounts of pain but ugh... .   Human emotions.

She has a boyfriend? Cool... . poor guy.    <--- where I want to be ASAP.

[Lao Tzu]

Hi BPD Family,

     This is a great thread, as everyone shares these feelings and you have all expressed them so clearly.  What we all face once we understand the dynamics of the disorder (and everyone on this thread seems to) is exactly how to get to the place where we don't care anymore.  As someone who has had this obseesion with a pwBPD for several decades   and just in the last few months actually made a gigantic amount of progress, I want to try to help you get there too, if I can.

     I could write pages about what did and didn't help me, but the bottom line is that you have to come to an understanding of why the idealization was so incredibly important to you.  Why did it speak to you in such a 'primal' way that, even though you intellectually fully understand the actor in this sick play no longer exists (or ever could), you still deeply need them to acknowledge how important you genuinely were (are) to them? It wasn't the sex, it wasn't that they genuinely were the movie-inspired concept of a soulmate brought to reality; so, what was it?  There are plenty of very real analogies to drug addiction, but I doubt many of us are big druggies -- I don't even drink coffee  . So... . ?

     You must figure this out yourself, as my telling you what it is would just seem creepy (it still sounds creepy even to me a little).  But understanding this is the key to actually getting over it.

     I suddenly have to work with my "ex" and she has moved from unintentionally (passively) triggering me like crazy to intentionally (actively) trying to trigger me by talking to me about her current enamorata as her soul mate, other half, etc.  The joke is kind of on her, though, as every day that goes by since I had my personal epiphany about what has been going on in my head I have become more and more immune to triggering at all.  I imagine there might always be some little part of me that will react to her, but I can now look at that reaction as if from the outside, laugh at it and move on.  She's presently confused I imagine, which seems only fair if you believe in Karma.

     Work on this as obsessively as you have been thinking about the pwBPD!  Instead of running yourself in a circle, you will run in a straight line that will end with you taking every bit of power away from him/her.  I keep reading here every day as "immunization" booster shots and to try to pass on what I've learned, but my battle with this is actually pretty much over.  Yours can be too.  "Charred" has some very insightful posts on this as do many others.  Feel free to look at my old posts as well, but remember that it won't mean much until you work your way to your own personal realization by yourself.  You can move on and they, sadly, can't.  Work hard on this and it won't matter that some very sick girl/guy didn't actually love you at all the way you thought they did.  Let me know if I can help, of course.

LT

[rodman8]

Yep.  Just like the other posters here, I to received those moments of clarity.  Here are a few examples:

"I am selfish, shallow, and very vain.  I am high maintenance and it is all about me.  You deserve someone that will love you always."

"I know that I am a horrible mother.  Everything my mother said about me on facebook was the truth.  I am a self-centered person, and I cannot handle the stress of being a mom."

"You have the most wonderful and caring heart of any man I know.  Your smile makes me melt.  When you look at me it makes me weak in the knee."

"I know that I have issues.  It's the reason I am single."  (She actually said this on the phone)

"I understand that I hurt you, and for that I am sorry."

"I apologize for hurting you.  It was never my intention."

These were all texted to me at different moments after our break up.  They usually came after a long conversation where we really connected and enjoyed catching up.  It's crazy because she would not have dared tell me these things during our courting phase, as it would have made me run the other way.  As a logical person, I ask why would you pursue any relationship with a man when you admit to all these things?  If you dont want me all of a sudden, then why do want somebody else?  Why not try and fix yourself then?  Again, just me trying to rationalize on unrational situation.  Damn do I miss her though!

[charred]

It hurts so much and drives you crazy because a r/s with a pwBPD isn't a normal r/s you let it become a primary r/s like one the one with your birth parents should have been, but maybe wasn't. The idealizing from the pwBPD comes across at first like unlimited unconditional love, and they ignore your boundaries and get close to you even though you may normally keep people away a bit. After a while of them blowing smoke and you eating it up, you accept them like the loving parent you never had... . then when they start being clingy or become a hater... . you put up with things you never thought you would, because it is coming from someone you feel like you have to obey. You have so much intense feelings and emotions that you feel alive, but the r/s itself goes from awesome to terrible and then it might suddenly be over, leaving you devastated instead of just a little upset (like you would be in a normal r/s).

The hurt doesn't subside easily, because it is just like losing a parent, its a deep devastating hurt.

Thing is, they are not a parent, they are not worthy of being put in that position and had you not ignored the   that you did, you would not be where you are. The stories a pwBPD tells may not pass your BS detector, but you want to believe them... and you cant... . hold them to the truth, accept, really accept them as they are... . disordered, manipulative, emotionally stunted people that have to be seen realistically to be dealt with. If you buy in to the act and stories... . they don't respect you and are manipulating you rather than relating as normal adults.

Sad but true.

[Iamdizzy]

Thanks for posting, I feel that my encounter with my BPD was simply due to naïveté and being a nice guy. Not sure if this is from some childhood trauma or bad parenting, although my childhood is far from perfect, I was a happy kid nothing to really complain about.

My friends and I usually lived by the "bro" code of if she's crazy no matter how beautiful she is leave!

Easier said than done. She was, in my eyes, so sexy (BPD or not) and actually compatible with me in some areas but maybe that was due to mirroring. I couldn't find myself to just leave because of her past. I truly thought she had her past trauma under control, I mean she came off as a responsible adult.

I hope one day I can really just be indifferent, I don't want her and I don't want revenge, I just want to be whatever about it. I want to just scoff and say poor guy. Even when I find myself not thinking about her, ill have a dream about her. i feel like my conscious mind is in a battle with my subconscious mind. It won't let this go.

[Lao Tzu]

Dear Iamdizzy,

     "i feel like my conscious mind is in a battle with my subconscious mind."  EXACTLY.  "Charred" was succinctly stating the position held by your subconscious mind as that's the one that can't speak openly.  It's this horribly strong subconscious pull that causes the dreams (which I truly hate), the near panic attacks when we see them, and all the other cr@p we experience.  To get better you have to drag that subconscious stuff out into the daylight and see it for what it is.  The day you do that will be the day this battle starts winding down to the point of being nothing.  You have made a great start, imho.

LT

[Iamdizzy]

Lao tzu, your words are comforting.

Have you started to pull out the darkness from your subconscious? If so how?

I hate that it's a battle that, IMHO, I feel like I'm losing. I'm trapped in my mind if its not something external, places we visited, songs on the radio, seeing her on my family's Facebook other social networks, I'm battling my subconscious mind. I'm having dreams about her doing better with another guy or that I'm being forced into her house or that something, some force is pushing me to drive past her house or check her Facebook. I sometimes have dreams in which I'm lucky enough to dream about her having sex with another guy, touching her the same way I did.

Lao tzu, I know for a fact that if she stayed, had I not broken up with her, I would of been severely depressed, perhaps abusing alcohol or in some sort of legal trouble due to some false accusation. I don't know why I have these dreams about her.

[charred]

I am seeing the light...

Our pwBPD ALSO have problems, big ones, maybe bigger than ours, but the super deep connection we have with the pwBPD is because of our own issues. The apparent unconditional love, love bombing and almost constant attention we get from the pwBPD... is heady/addictive stuff for us... due to our needing unconditional love... and not having had as much as we needed from our FOO. I think most of us in r/s with pwBPD... are insecurely attached to some degree. That is a problem for us, not as severe as BPD perhaps, but enough of an issue that we keep people at a distance and have some issues with close intimacy in a r/s. Then the pwBPD ignores the boundaries we have to keep people from getting too close, and love bombs us until we are reacting to them like they are a parent.

Clearly if that is the case... they have a disorder, and we can complain about them not addressing it, but if they were able to devastate us because they filled a hole we had inside from our FOO or core trauma or early attachment issues (whatever you want to call it)... then the root of the problem for us is getting our house in order.

Radically accepting people for what they are (pwBPD in particular) is really just noticing reality, what is actually going on... . not the trauma drama from our youth, not worrying about what might happen, or what if xyz... . but what is going on.

My r/s with my pwBPD... was great at first, then mostly horrible, but I kept ignoring reality due to the deep connection and alive feelings the toxic r/s brought out. In hindsight... . I shutdown a lot of feelings and emotions and replaced them with disassociating and intellectualizing and diversions... . long ago as a kid, when things in my FOO were super unpleasant, and the habit of doing those things, is what made a pwBPD a perfect storm for bad times for me.

NON's... . heal thy self... . or focus on getting help for yourself.

[Lao Tzu]

Hi Family Members,

As usual, "Charred" is right on the money. Very nice, man. 

"Have you started to pull out the darkness from your subconscious? If so how?"  Yes, in the space of just a few months and with the massive help I get from this site in general and good folks like "Charred" in particular I have beaten down the subconscious attacks to the point where I can, generally, laugh at them when they come bubbling up.  I may never be fully free and I'm probably kidding myself a little about how well I'm doing, but the difference between me now and me a few months ago is day vs. night.  I had to do this because I am in the unenviable position of suddenly having to work with my pwBPD, thus the triggering of my feelings suddenly went from zero to near infinity from one day to the next.  The interesting part is that she has, apparently, noted that I seem more and more "off the line" with her each time she sees me; to the point that she has moved to actively trying to trigger me by discussing her current love as her "soul mate" and "other half"    Six months ago that would have had me completely out of my mind (and our r/s was 30 years ago), but now it just causes a little ripple by slightly reinforcing the subconscious level argument and then I can laugh at it.  She may feel the need to escalate her attempts to trigger me and if she does they will be well enough designed that the result may have a temporary effect on me, but she'll never get me back to where I had been for 30 years (as completely nuts as that sounds). I'm gonna guess the next elevation will be that she'll tell me she's going to get married to the latest victim and I'll get to see everyone cooing around her about that.  Well, she'll be even more confused when she sees how little effect that has on me since she doesn't know what's going on in my head any more than I used to know what went on in hers.  Karma, baby -- just try to avoid it.

     The second part of your question is: if so, how?  "Charred" has already laid out a bit of a road map here as to how he did it, and it's extremely close to mine, but more succinctly stated.  If you want to see what I've said, you can search on my 'name' and find my old posts where I describe this in all its creepy detail.  The thing is, you have to discover for yourself exactly what it really was that the pwBPD was giving you.  That realization has to come from within you.  Reading what someone else writes is something like having the color blue described to a blind person versus actually seeing it himself.

     Once you really understand what it was in you, you can see not only why you have given this sick girl so much power over you, but also exactly how you have to to work to give exactly what you need to yourself.  This might sound a bit too abstract, but for me and many people here, our lives have consisted of driving ourselves to the absolute limit of our abilities and beyond in an attempt to, essentially, be admired; and thus get the approval we didn't get as children.  This doesn't mean Mom was a jerk (mine wasn't), just that for whatever reason you felt you needed a lot more than you got at a very early age.  The pwBPD provides that 'mother's milk' in CostCo bulk supply and at no apprent charge and this means you've finally gotten the thing you have been striving for your whole life.  How could you not love someone who basically plays a deeply subconscious role of mother?

     OK, I told you it might not mean a lot until you discover it for yourself!  When they devalue you and drop you suddenly, it hurts a lot more because it represents a lot more to you. 

It will only be after you understand this cr@p about yourself that you can start becoming immune to the effects the break-up has on you.  Most people here who have gone through this process (me included, certainly) have said that the depth of knowledge you gain about yourself is the 'gift' the pwBPD gives you.  "Charred" efficiently shot that very nice post-hoc rationalization down for me when he wrote that this would be like the Japanese being grateful for Hiroshima and Nagasaki because the country did so well post-war. 

     Work on this and you won't be disappointed.  It's just that it's really hard to accept that the psycho-sexual development cr@pola you have read from Freud and Jung might actually have been correct and apply to you too.  Note however that the ideas of a subconscious and conscious, also from Freud, are easy to accept. as they don't have any uncomfortable implications about our sainted mother or our sexual appetites when we were infants 

     So, this was too long, but I wanted to answer an honest question honestly.  It's why I spend my reasonably valuable time here  -- to pass on what the others here have taught me.

LT     

[charred]

I too spent years trying to figure out why I cared at all for my pwBPD... she was horrible to me. And why I was so devastated by her dumping me years ago... then when we got back together why it went from great to horrible and back and forth. The BPD explained part of it, the user 2010 postings about drama triangles explained part of it... but I still thought I was a "NON" as in not part of the problem... . but I was the only other one and was indeed 1/2 the problem.

My issues have been largely explained by attachment theory... . insecure/fearful/avoidant attachment... read up on it and see if any of it resonates with you.

The Freud/Jung/Bowlby stuff seems to be on the money... and like many other people I dismissed it as psycho-babble... . but it seems right after all.

Read a good book on actually trying to fix attachment issues; "Healing Developmental Trauma"... . it is the most to the point explanation of how I feel day to day of any book I have read, and I read a lot.

Keep it in mind for down the road once you are no longer struggling to separate from your pwBPD, and understand them and no longer are concentrating on them. Could be it is my personal problem and not applicable, but since the deep attachment/hurting parts are the same as most people here with BPD r/s, I suspect that my 1/2 of the problem in the r/s... . might be similar to most people here's 1/2.