Need to set up a no text/calling at work boundary before I get fired.

[Cipher13]

I need help with setting up a boundary at work about no calls/texting before i can in trouble. I found out I'm know as that guy that texts all the time... . Not good. How can i bring this up? She tells me she needs to text to make sure she knows what I am doing and that I'm not doing anythign wrong... . She just called because I wasn't responding to texts. Then says I hear chicks in the background. Thats why you are not texting... I said its an open office you know that you have been here before.

Any suggestions?

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PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[Finallyblooming]

Validate her feelings first, for example,

I know you are worried that something might be going on, I hear that and I understand that.

You might tell her that you go to work so that you can provide and do the things with her that she likes to do, but that work has rules about the amount of texting and phone calls you receive and if you lose your job. You won't have the money to provide her for the things you do together, so how about you text her on breaks and let her know what time those breaks are.

My DD19 is especially clingy to me and me being at work is no exception. Luckily, I have the workplace environment that it doesn't affect anything. But, I started telling her if she got to missing me, send me an email, write it all down, I want to know how your day is going and then I can check it when I have the time, I'll email you back. That seemed to cut it down dramatically, I only get one or two sentence emails a few times a day now.

It seems weird at first because it's all about her, but then you start to realize, it is all about her and trying to make a point of her behavior is causing a poostorm might really make it worse and set off a rage because they can't handle being responsible for poostorms, it'll become your fault and the bosses fault etc.

Does she work also?

[Skip]

After reading the boundaries workshop, the first question I would ask is is "what value is this about?"  Providing for your family?  :)oes this work?

What value is communicating with your wife?  Making my family feel loved and cherished? Something like this?

Are these her values too?

Is there a sweet spot where both these values can be honored?  At what point are either of you over a boundary or in a position of violating these important values.

Having this discussion with her is where I would start.

[Cipher13]

Validate her feelings first, for example,

I have been trying this for about a year... Never had any positive results.

I have also tried to put this discussion out there... . saying I am getting other people commenting about how much I text and that it could get to my boss. I say sometimes I am busy so I don't respond imediatley but when I am free I always respond to them... . I  say sometimes when you are busy you can't respond to me and I understand that you will get back when its is apropriate for you. I am asking you the same thing now... . I have gotten mix responses or no responces or lately "I don't trsut you so I have to and you better respond to me"...

Do I need to go to the or else stage now?

[Finallyblooming]

Wow, I can understand your frustration. Being told that you're trusted can really feel like a slap in the face. I'm sorry that you are having these experiences.

If you're close to your boss, is there perhaps a way he could do a mock LOR? (Letter of Reprimand). It's possible she might be thinking that you're just saying these things to avoid her. Which could actually be in her mind, proving and supporting the reasons for her insecurities. That fear of abandonment is crazy bad, it's completely irrational but justified in their head. So, for them, the tighter they hold the sand, the more it will stay put and won't be able to move.

I think she pretty much beat you to the or else stage.

[Finallyblooming]

I just realized how that could sound.

I'm not saying that lying is the best way to deal with a BPD LOL The suggestion of a LOR was merely for a quick fix to the immediate problem. It might just enforce more quickly that it's not in fact you getting wiggle room away from her and give you some time and get her to maybe see that isn't the case, that you are dealing with an immediate situation.

[Cipher13]

If you're close to your boss, is there perhaps a way he could do a mock LOR? (Letter of Reprimand).

Funny I thought the same thing. I don't want to lie if I can avoid it. I have enough things I had to tweak to keep a healthy mental state of mind.  That may not sound all that good but when its the only way you can think of to have some scontact with your parents you hid that fact from her. 

At first I thought of saying I got verbaly repramaned but if I have a copy of something physical maybe it would shock her into a form of reality... . Sounds mean at the same time.  So I don't wan tot really go there... .

[Finallyblooming]

Usually when insecurities are running at that high, you wouldn't hand it to her directly, that would most definitely set off a ragenado, but put it aside somewhere like a unwanted bill. They'll find it LOL. UMPF, the isolation has to be really strenuous on you. How do you're parents, friends, and other FOO deal with this?

[Skip]

Hey guys, we're talking about a bit of dysfunctional dancing - on our parts!  

If our partner is insecure, we are not going to solve that problem long term by having a fake reprimand written or any other type of manipulation. If they see through it or find out then we just made insecurity all that much more warranted.

We need to deal with the real issues and we need to deal with them in a mature way - not a BPD way - but in a mature way that the BPD person can learn and grow from and respect. 

This is why vales are so important.  And its not hard to find common values.

This case is a very good example.  It is a common problem.  And it is a prototypical problem for a values/boundary solution.

So, as we already understand the whole workplace "value", let's shift the conversation to the source of her insecurity and how she sees it.

What is driving this need?

We need to understand this is we're going to solve the call frequency problem.

[Finallyblooming]

Hi Skip,

You're absolutely right, my bad 

Sometimes it seems hopeless to try to fix the insecurities, what works with a non is easy. Actions speak louder than words, with some BPD it seems like actions and words are lost in the wind. I know that sometimes they hear, but they don't believe and will continue to act out. If people feel their needs are met, they are less insecure. Perhaps she feels the lack of a direct link and so she has to constantly create the direct link in order to feel she is connected at all. All or nothing sort of scenario

[Skip]

You're absolutely right, my bad  

We have no "bads" here - and you aren't alone in this thought - just sometimes we have "betters" solutions.

Sometimes it seems hopeless to try to fix the insecurities, what works with a non is easy. Actions speak louder than words, with some BPD it seems like actions and words are lost in the wind.

Fix?  We can't fix anyone.  

We can provide leadership and structure to help our partner manage their their heightened and impulsive emotions.  

We can provide love and patience to help us manage the structure.

It's up to the person with BPD to grow with this.  

Some of us will get this and some of us won't.  Some of the BPD partners will rise to the occasion, some won't, and some will never be presented with the opportunity...

That's kinda the deal.  No panacea.  But many success stories.

[waverider]

The problem is that you ar feeling under pressure from different sources your wife, your boss, your work colleagues, and your own guilt about not fully applying yourself to your work.

As these things are coming at you from different directions you feel stuck between a rock and a hard place, afraid to set off a chain reaction simply by making a big deal over it. So you fiddle around the edges (walking on eggshells) hoping it will resolve itself and ending up in JADE. eg Its not ok to get lot's of texts/calls at work, so you make lots of side reasons(true ones but not individually overwhelming). She see's through these and starts believing you are making excuses. Note her lack of empathy means she can't put herself in your shoes.

The core issue is that answering these calls/texts impairs your standing at work. That needs a boundary. She needs to contact you or she has abandonment issues, that can't be ignored. So you will need a reasonable and solid boundary, without dragging in secondary reasons. For example you read and respond to texts/calls etc when you are on your breaks as at other times are unprofessional and inappropriate. She will get used to this.

I had this issue and used to give reasons such as the boss is watching, I'm busy etc (All of which went straight over her head as irrelevant) To you it wouldn't be so bad if it was occasional but it is the compounding effect. To a pwBPD there is no compounding effect. That is why they can make endless individual convincing excuses without realizing the fact there are so many is a give away that they are excuses.

In my case whenever I didn't answer for whatever reason she would then call a colleague's, or even the boss's, phone, and that made it even worse. You have to make that boundary, and don't break it or you can set off intermittent reinforcement as they keep chasing the exception. Like excuses they don't connect that each time can't be classed as an exception.

It is part of the lack of continuity and living in the immediate need, which is part of BPD. Meeting that need is paramount, the consequences to anyone else are secondary. It is not unlike an addict chasing the next hit. Even if they are aware and dont like the consequences it is not sufficient to stop them. Blocking the supply is the only way, to break the cycle

[Skip]

The core issue is that answering these calls/texts impairs your standing at work. That needs a boundary. She needs to contact you or she has abandonment issues, that can't be ignored. So you will need a reasonable and solid boundary, without dragging in secondary reasons. For example you read and respond to texts/calls etc when you are on your breaks as at other times are unprofessional and inappropriate. She will get used to this.

OK, this is a good potential solution.  

In my case whenever I didn't answer for whatever reason she would then call a colleague's, or even the boss's, phone, and that made it even worse. You have to make that boundary, and don't break it or you can set off intermittent reinforcement as they keep chasing the exception. Like excuses they don't connect that each time can't be classed as an exception.

But how do you avoid this?

One way is during a time of calm you talk about values with her and how to honor them.

Yes dear, it is very important for us to stay connected.  Right?  And its very important that I maintain gainful employment. Right?  So how can we accomplish both because they are both very important to us

And then you work through it together and compromise and get her "buy in".  Maybe she will settle for calls on breaks?  Maybe your will agree that 911 means she needs you now.  Maybe she will accept that one there is a false 911 call, that ends that option.  Etc. etc.

This may take a  couple of sit downs.  :)on't push it too far too fast.

Once you have this, now you can have a structure.  

Within this structure Be very rewarding when she does desired behavior. Wow I had a really productive day - thanks to you! Be disappointed but compassionate and forgiving when she doesn't.  Saw you called  this afternoon.  I'm a little disappointed - I thought we had each other's back on this.

Be very careful to never reward undesirable behavior - like answering a text at a time that was blocked to say she shouldn't have texted.  

You can get there.  Step by step.  Be strong.  Be patient.

[Chosen]

I have had similar situations before.  Evevn when we were dating, I would be constantly picking up calls from now-H, being scolded at over the phone, being called 10 times just to be shouted at then the phone was slammed down... . I have taken time off work (suddenly) because he called and demanded that I get off work.  My bosses were NOT impressed with this and needless to say they have warned me about it.

Actually I don't agree with the validating of feelings when she calls you.  At other times if she complains that you no longer pick up the phone or respond to her texts, you can validate, but when she does call then it's a time to put the boundary in place.  For example, you can say "I'm in the middle of something and I can't talk now.  I will let you know when I have the time to talk."  Then stop responding to everything- texts, calls for a while.  I used to think it would be really hard, and initially it was, because H would think I'm ignoring him.  Just maintain that you're busy to talk.  No need to explain or defend your position. 

In this way, they get used to you not always being there.  Now H calls a lot less, even when he's a bit dysregulated, and he doesn't expect that every time he texts I must respond right away.  It is a process.  They will eventually get used to it.

[Cipher13]

Thank you to all.  I didn't get a chance to really discuss this topic over the weekend with her. Unfortunatley I may have to dureing the work day. I will do my best to work at it.  I don't want to take this to a "fake reprimand".  That way never really felt liek the righ tthing to do even thoug it was my first thought.  Good to sometimes take a step back and see what kind of actions we need to take versus ones we want to take out of initial impulse.  I don't want this to get into a situation where a real reprimand is in place.

Again thank you

[waverider]

Good to sometimes take a step back and see what kind of actions we need to take versus ones we want to take out of initial impulse. 

Keep hold of this thought. It is the core tool to apply to dealing with any aspect of BPD. A pwBPD is reactive and tries to trigger a reactive response from us. Avoiding being reactive is the first step in getting any sort of direction out of the dysfunction. Being able to consistently do this is a good sign of being in a good place

[Cipher13]

Success for now!    I had a discussion about texting while at work.  We have an agreement that the apropriate times are morning break, lunch break, quitting time, and emergencies.  I will not respond to them any other time. I will iniciate them at those times only. If this agreement is crossed the I will not repond at the next designated apropriate time. 

I think this should do it. I have to make sure I do not make any changes on my end and we should be fine...

[waverider]

Success for now!    I had a discussion about texting while at work.  We have an agreement that the apropriate times are morning break, lunch break, quitting time, and emergencies.  I will not respond to them any other time. I will iniciate them at those times only. If this agreement is crossed the I will not repond at the next designated apropriate time. 

I think this should do it. I have to make sure I do not make any changes on my end and we should be fine...

Thats good sometimes fear and guilt blinds us to the obvious and realistic path. Trying to please everyone and end up pleasing none by not having clear boundaries.

All you have to do now is have the same opinion on what constitutes an emergency

[Cipher13]

All you have to do now is have the same opinion on what constitutes an emergency

Yes that would be the next step. My opinion on that is any close to needing 911.

However last night I sensed she was trying to unravel this a little. Maybe even trying to fight to get it back to the way it was. She asked me how I found out people were talking about me.  I said I was talking to a co-worker on the phone when it was my turn to say something I was respondeing to her text and he said Are you still ther?" I said sorry I was just responding to a text.  Thats when he told me. He works in another state but in my depratement. He told me he has heard from other here in my office saying somthing about how much I text. 

She started to say that couldn't be true and that I wouldn't have said that to him.  I said it was true and reguardless it is a problem.

So we still wait to see.

[desperatehubby]

You need to stick by your guns.

I know, as I have lost 2 jobs this year owing to 'distractions'... . which were texts and skype messages.

I didn't stick to the boundaries.

[Cipher13]

desparethubby

Sorry to hear that. Its so hard but I don't have much of a choice. She will have to be upset that I won't text until I can at lunch. Too badfor her I am just not going to do it.

[allibaba]

Cipher13,

This is actually a really healthy step for both of you... . and its great that you have an excuse (ie that its hurting your work).     I mean, you don't want to spend your life on the other end of an electronic leash right!  ?  At some point I assume that you would like to go out with friends and not feel like you have to check your phone every few minutes.

She's going to have an extinction burst on this boundary at some point soon.  Its not going to be comfortable for her to learn to deal with this.  Just be ready and find ways to keep yourself strong.  You are doing this for your marriage.  Ultimately you will have something better and more healthy. 

I didn't do a 'no texting/ calling' boundary because my husband isn't actually that big on cell phones but I had to put a boundary in place about the fact that sometimes I just can't answer his calls while I am in a meeting.  I was sitting in a meeting with all of the executives in my company and my husband got home and found out that the dog had chewed something.  He went nuts and called me 5x.  I finally excused myself and said 'is this an emergency' when he started ranting I said 'I love you but I running an important meeting and I have to go.'  It started the mother of all extinction bursts at home.  It lasted about 2 weeks... . it was horrible... . but it was exactly what he and I both needed.

Just wanted to share my own experience here in the hopes that it is helpful to you. 

[waverider]

This is also good for her. pwBPD struggle to have structure, that doesn't mean they dont need, or or dont want, it. It just means they can't organize it for themselves.

Once you get the structure down as normal, it will be better for both of you.

if you succeed at this, and it is a relatively easy boundary to enforce, it will give you confidence to likewise tackle other boundaries and structure related issues.