Thinking of going back

[eternity75]

Hi all,

It's only been 6 days since I ended my relationship with my uBPD bf. I am struggling now with wanting to be back with him.

I have this angel/devil on the shoulder thing going on. On one hand I have read many things on this board and I truly feel he has BPD. But then I think what if I'm wrong. What if my own fear of commitment and letting people get close is pushing him away?

He has been an amazing boyfriend and I have never seen him get angry. He has been incredibly patient and level with MY ups and downs in the relationship. However I also recognize that all of my ups and downs are due to his cheating and flirting with other women.

I find myself justifying his cheating. Questioning what is real love... . and if we really love someone do we not accept their faults and give them unconditional love despite that? I justify his cheating by thinking "OK we live 5 hours apart... . he is lonely... . he is a man... . and maybe he just needs that kind of attention sometimes" (referring to emotional affairs) He cheated on me once, physically, that I know of and all the rest has been messages to women online on FB or texting. All the women in his town who I talked to have said yeah he has said he's single, yeah he has tried to be more than just friends with them, and if they hadn't said no they are sure he would be all over that. But I keep saying to myself nothing has happened for a reason... . if he wanted to he could easily go pick up some girl at the bar but that hasn't happened. I think he does it just for the attention. What am I doing trying to justify a behaviour that I can't stand? Why am I willing to compromise my own values?

Why does he leave his status on FB as in a relationship? Why does he keep telling me he loves me?

I almost feel like it would be easier if he painted me black and trashed me to everyone he knows (logically I know it would be just as painful... . but maybe easier for me to move on). Right now I believe he still idealizes me. I AM still his soulmate in his mind. He hasn't moved on from that concept. He HAS expressed remorse for hurting me. He says he doesn't want me to suffer because of him (while at the same time he won't actually talk about the "other women" part of things and acknowledge that is the problem and THAT is what is hurting me... . no matter how many times I say it). But these things cause doubt in my mind. Doubt that I am making the right choice... . and yet this has been what it's been like for months... . do I stay or do I go?

It breaks my heart when he's texting other women constantly. Of course I have no evidence that these women aren't just friends. I texted one of them and asked and she said they are just friends, she's in a 3 yr relationship, and my bf is a total sweetheart but it isn't anything more than a friendship.

I know this is not behaviour I can accept or live with long term. But I am still questioning my own decision. He has said that since the first incidence of cheating (a month into our relationship) I have never trusted him or given him a chance. In a huge way that is true, but trust is also rebuilt not just blindly given... . and he did nothing but hide his activities better each time. And me, not wanting to be lied to and deceived for months to years on end, played P.I. to find out the truth.

So what am I doing sitting here day in and out doubting that I did the right thing? I cry every day and the pain of being out of this relationship feels much worse than the pain of being in it  

[marbleloser]

Only you can make the decision whether to stay or leave eternity.As for unconditional love,love shouldn't be unconditional.You have to have boundaries and even though you're in a RS,you're entitiled to your own individuality.That goes both ways.Unconditional love can lead to one person taking on ALL of the responsabilty,when it should be two,working together,with respect for one another.

I have alot of female friends that I talk to also.Your post has me thinking of what kind of feelings that leads to for my SO.I don't text them constantly and everything is out in the open,but I still may need to back off.Thank you for sharing your perspective,as a woman,on that.

[Learning_curve74]

He cheated on me once, physically, that I know of and all the rest has been messages to women online on FB or texting. All the women in his town who I talked to have said yeah he has said he's single, yeah he has tried to be more than just friends with them, and if they hadn't said no they are sure he would be all over that.

This is very likely a pattern of behavior that he will continue. It sounds like his physical and emotional affairs cross your boundaries. What do you think are the appropriate consequences for that?

You are obviously struggling with a decision. Try to think of a couple things. All relationships have a certain cost to benefit ratio. You will only spend so much time and emotional energy on casual acquaintances because you do not receive much in return from them. You will spend more time and emotional energy on close friends because they give you a lot in return. How much are you willing to invest on your ex knowing how much he is going to reciprocate?

Think also about whether you are engaging in wishful thinking. Is your ex, the way he is, the person you truly desire or do you only want the "good" side of him. Nobody is perfect, so we have to accept the flaws in our partners if we want to stay with them. How much time do you spend wishing that he was somebody different? If that is a lot of time, maybe you truly are looking for somebody else, not your ex. Be truthful with yourself and good luck. 

[Clearmind]

eternity75, its your choice if you want to go back or not.

What would need to change for you to be happy in this relationship? How can you go about making that change?

[Trick1004]

Eternity,

Don't do it keep walking away. An amazing boyfriend doesn't cheat on you with other women. They want the unconditional love because they know it allows them to do whatever the hell they want knowing you will be there for them. It is a never ending pattern that they are stuck in and for whatever reason you got sucked into.

I had the same questions also in the couple of weeks post-breakup. I put everything I had into trying to make her happy and excusing her behavior and it just made me miserable.

You did the right thing for yourself. It is so hard initially, but stay strong, give yourself some time to detach and I think you'll find you made the right decision. 

[Perfidy]

There would have to be a meeting of the minds and some kind of atonement. What could POSSIBLY go wrong with that? Emotional decisions are ALWAYS wrong. Be careful. Good luck if you decide to.

[eternity75]

Thank you all for your replies.

I know making an emotional decision is not a good idea.

It took all my strength this weekend not to drive the 5 hours to his town to see him. The thought crossed my mind many times.

I guess part of what makes me question is that he has never really gotten to a point in our relationship where he has completely discarded me or painted me black like so many on this board have talked about. He has never said a bad word to me or about me. How long can the idealization phase continue with a pwBPD? Is it because we have been in a long distance relationship that it's easier for him to idealize me and never devalue me?

I admit... . I have never felt totally secure in our relationship. The cheating happened in the first month and since then I have felt completely insecure and looked for anything that showed he was going to cheat again. Which lead to the spying... . finding out about the many messages to other women about sex, etc. Watching him guard his phone like it's a brick of gold (because that's how I found out about the cheating in the first place). But I have also seen slow, gradual efforts he has made to change. He has told me, he hates being accountable for where he is and what he's doing... . but he did this to ease my fears. It was the odd occasion where he didn't do this that my mind would go crazy and freak out. And it wasn't that he wasn't doing it at all... . he was... . just not as frequently because he was honestly busy with other things (like working on helping fix his friend's car). But if 2 hours went by without hearing from him I would go into a panic.

I know I have a LOT of self worth and co-dependency issues myself. I felt like I met someone who "gets me". He HAS been the cause of many of my insecurities in this relationship. But he has also been patient and changed some things to try to help me through those. It's difficult to explain (or even for me to understand) how he can be both of those things at the same time.

Learning-curve... . you asked me what are the appropriate consequences for the cheating and emotional affairs. In my mind the only thing I can come up with is ending the relationship. I don't know if there is a consequence that is "in between". Something that would get through to him the gravity of what he's doing without just ending it. If I could come up with that it would be a miracle. I wish I could sit down with him and actually have a face-to-face discussion about it. Really. Because our only discussions have been on the phone or texting... . or sometimes emails. But I'd like to actually sit down and talk about it. So he cannot just avoid... . so he's not just let off the hook a few hours later after going around in circles about it. Because many times our discussions about the real issue get off track. We start talking about the distance... . about his trip to Mexico... . about things that are issues but are not THE issue.

I have not physically seen evidence this time that he is having emotional affairs still. I texted 2 of the girls he was texting. They both said he is just a friend and gave no indication that his texts to them were anything inappropriate. So maybe all his texts to them really are just friendship at this point. I don't know! I really wish I could just get to the truth.

At the same time... . I keep asking myself... . how realistic is it to think this LDR can continue regardless? It's at least another 2 years before he gets residency.


Soo many questions... . so few answers. It's all so frustrating and confusing.

[Lucky Jim]

Hi Eternity, That you are unable to sit down and have a frank discussion with your exBF about his cheating on you suggests to me that there is something unhealthy at the core of your r/s.  You seem to be coming up with justifications for his cheating and flirting with others, though I don't see why you are trying to make excuses for him, unless to deceive yourself.  In some ways, you have given him permission to cheat and flirt with other girls.  Is this what you really want in a r/s?  Think hard before you go back for another round, which is likely to be much the same as before.

Hang in there, Lucky Jim

[eternity75]

Hi Jim,

Thanks for your reply.

I am unable to sit down and have this discussion with him because we are LDR and live 5 hours from each other. In the past we have worked out issues over the phone... . but I don't think that is sufficient. I want to actually see his face when I talk about these things with him. We have never had a serious face to face discussion about anything... . because when we are together things are always great... . it's when we're apart that things crumble. But now, I just wish I could sit down and discuss this in person. Maybe I feel I need to see how he actually processes what I am saying... . or if he is processing it at all!

You are absolutely right... . I am looking for reasons to justify. I think sometimes I doubt myself so much and I do not trust my own instincts because I have trust issues so I wonder if I am making things up in my head sometimes. I know I did not make up his cheating... . I know I did not make up reading his FB messages to other women and what he was saying to them... . and I know I'm not making up the fact that he's texting many different women all the time. I guess what has me questioning is if he has changed things and these women are really just friends or not. We agreed to "start over" at one point but knowing about all the texting is what has had me doubting and questioning and scared he is still cheating or emotionally cheating. I should probably trust my gut instinct on this... . but somewhere along the line (maybe because he always called me crazy) I just started doubting if what I think in my head is really what's happening. I tend to always think worst case scenario right away... . and I guess I'm scared maybe I'm shooting myself in the foot. (Or maybe I'm smarter than I give myself credit for because I always found the evidence that proved me right)  Being right in these cases isn't always a good thing though.

[Lucky Jim]

Hello again, Eternity, Why not trust your gut instincts?  You know on some level what your exBF is up to, so I am uncertain why you are doing mental somersaults in order to convince yourself that "he has changed things."  I doubt it.  If he has BPD, change is extremely difficult.  Hang in there, Lucky Jim

[SadWifeofBPD]

all the rest has been messages to women online on FB or texting

then the 5 hour distance is irrelevant.

[SweetCharlotte]

Hi eternity,

Whether it is physical cheating, emotional cheating, or just questionable texting, sounds like his behavior has you reacting in ways that can only worsen your self-esteem. Think of it, you have contacted other women to ask whether something is going on. I know how that feels because I had a bf when I was in my 20s who had me in that sort of loop. I wouldn't call that fellow a pwBPD or even a pwND because there were no rages, tantrums, or dissociation. He was just a garden-variety womanizer (I have no idea if this is true in your situation). And I know that it takes a lot of inner pain to push a woman to contact another woman about "her" man. I don't like to see anyone in that position of humiliation, insecurity, and loneliness.

More than 20 years later, I still felt curious enough to contact "another woman" about my ex-bf's activities, but I selected his sister-in-law this time. She told me that he had never married and was still up to his old tricks. I shouldn't have needed that reinforcement, but I'm glad to have it. I had moved nine hours away from him back then for career reasons mostly but also to flush him out of my system, and it still took almost as long as the relationship itself had lasted.


I hope you are able to find whatever "distance" helps you the most.

[eternity75]

Well I guess now we're basically back together. (?) It has never actually been discussed... . we were texting every day during our breakup and that led to talking on the phone and then things just sort of fell back to "normal". I'm not even sure how... . it just kind of happened that way. I didn't change my FB status back to being in a relationship, and I never said anything that gave any indication that things were ok again... . but with him, it's like he just pretends everything away and acts like everything is "same old same old" and for some reason I just followed suit.

It feels so weird not to discuss anything. None of the things that are on my mind... . we never talk about anything deep unless I'm breaking up with him! I feel like he "won" because I just caved.

I think partly I caved because I almost felt more pain being out of the relationship than I did being in it! Which is horrible to say. I feel like I'm becoming almost complacent and accepting his actions. Like this is my new "normal". And that is also horrible because I'm teaching him what exactly he can get away with. I'm teaching him that nothing he does has a consequence because even the consequence of leaving was ignored long enough by him that it eventually just ended us back up where we started... . together.

SweetCharlotte, I can identify with finding out about your ex years after the relationship has ended. I've remained friends with my first bf's sister. I am sure he also had BPD... . he never cheated in the relationship because we lived together, worked together etc. But after 8 years together I moved 1/2 an hour away to go to school and continued our relationship seeing him on weekends, holidays, occasional evenings. He ended up cheating on me with a 16 yr old (he was 28). I broke up with him and shortly later he knocked up a 17 yr old... . they ended up getting married and having 3 more kids. They are still together to this day. From the sounds of it she has more issues than he does. But I have no feelings about it anymore one way or the other... . except to be thankful I am no longer part of that dysfunctional family and relationship. His sister told me that right before their dad passed away he actually told him "Why don't you just hurry up and die already". If that isn't cold I don't know what is!

LuckyJim... . I don't trust my instincts because I've never learned to trust myself completely even though I always prove myself to be right in the long run. Probably a result of living with a raging, abusive father until I was 18. I have never had confidence in myself, my abilities, even my own thoughts.

SadWife... . what do you mean the 5 hour distance is irrelevant? I'm not sure I understand.

[Scarlet Phoenix]

Hi eternity75

I wanted to quote back to you some of what you said that stood out to me

I feel like I'm becoming almost complacent and accepting his actions. Like this is my new "normal".

I don't trust my instincts because I've never learned to trust myself completely even though I always prove myself to be right in the long run. Probably a result of living with a raging, abusive father until I was 18.

I looked at your introduction post, too (your very first post), and I think it's safe to say that you have some core wounds that might make it hard for you to make healthy choices. That coupled with what's called trauma bonds, which run deep, and you have a powerful cocktail. I see you have some insight into this, which is good. You said in another post that you can't afford therapy, but already being aware of things is a first step. Working through our issues here on the boards is helpful, too. Many choose to post on the Taking Personal Inventory Board as a way to move forward in their healing.

... . and then things just sort of fell back to "normal". I'm not even sure how... . it just kind of happened that way.

Have you heard about "being in the FOG"? It means staying in a situation that is bad for us out of Fear, Obligation or Guilt. You can find a very interesting workshop about it here:

Workshop - US: What it means to be in the “FOG”

Another good one is this one: Why we stay:Traumatic Bonding,Intermittent Reinforcement,Stockholm Syndrome

Ultimately, it's up to you whether you stay in the relationship or not. We're here to support you either way. It's just important that you actively make the choice and that it is an informed choice. It's a process to get there, especially when we have a lot of baggage ourselves to sort through.

On the personal inventory board, they talk about going from victim to survivor to thriver.

From victim to survivor to thriver

Where do you feel you fit?

[nevaeh]

Oh my... . it's like I'm reading my life story from 23 years ago.

When H and I started dating he was wonderful and I felt like he "got" me.  I had just come out of a relationship in which my bf cheated on me (actually I was the person he cheated on his gf with, but I didn't know he even had a gf... . she was back home while he was at college).  Anyway, my self-esteem was already a little screwy when H and I started dating.

The night we met, my guy friend who brought H to the party we met at, saw that H was interested in me and that I was interested as well.  He pulled me aside and told me to "watch out for him... . he is a player".  How I WISH I would have just walked away then!  However, he gave my self esteem a boost, he made me feel good and special and wanted to be around me, etc.

Within the first 2-3 weeks we had our first questionable incident.  We were at a party and I guess H tried to make the moves on a friend of one of my female friends.  My friend told me about it the next day because she thought I should know.  I asked H about it and he said she was a lying bit@h and that no such thing had happened.  I wanted to believe him... . so I did.

After that there was instance after instance of similar things happening.  He had a "friend" that was in most of his classes that he hung out with, studied with (same major) and went running with.  They were just friends.  There was a girl from back home who he had promised to take to her senior prom (he was a freshman in college) before we met and he decided to keep that promise so he took her to prom.  I found letters from her saying she loved him.  They were just friends.  Over and over and over again this happened.  Instead of just dumping him, I hung on to his promises that they were "just friends" and believed him when he told me I was jealous for no reason.  It whittled away at my self esteem, with me thinking that I was just doomed to be with guys who cheated on me and was not deserving of anything better.

H broke up with me one night after we had dated for 4 years... . I asked him if there was someone else and he said there was someone else and he wanted to see where that might go.  I was devastated and did everything in my power to get him back and it worked... . we were married a year later.

It continued even after we were married.  I would find pieces of paper with women's names and numbers on them in his wallet.  I found emails from cyber affairs that he had with at least two women (both he had been "just friends" with in college).  It was constant.  I was always on the lookout for evidence that he actually, physically, cheated on me.  He always rationalized/excused his behavior because there was no sex involved.  I finally caught him crossing into a physical and emotional affair after he came home from a 9-month deployment to Iraq.  I had proof and he couldn't excuse it away.

Sweetie, if you are bothered by your bf's behavior now, just get out while you can.  It doesn't matter if he is or isn't actually cheating on you.  What matters is how it make YOU feel.  If your gut feeling is telling you that he is cheating or crossing a line, then he IS crossing a line, especially in YOUR mind.  HE may not feel like he is crossing a line... . HIS boundaries/lines may be very different from yours!  What he considers acceptable may be completely unacceptable to you!  I have learned after being married to my H for 18 years and with him for 23 years that MY feelings should have mattered to ME.  I let him beat me down, make me feel inadequate and as though I didn't deserve better.  Worse, is that I let myself down and let myself believe that I didn't deserve better.  I bought his lies even though I knew deep down that they were lies.

If I could go back in time I would never have started dating my H.  Never. Ever. Never.  I wish that I would have listened to my gut feelings.  I wish I would have listened to my friends who told me that he was no good.  I wish I would have not given my heart fully to him, so that I would have noticed the other guys who were interested in me at the time.  I gave up a potential relationship with a great guy because of H.  I even terminated a pregnancy because of H - he wasn't ready to be a dad and said he would leave me if had the baby.  I have given up SO MUCH of myself for my H.  I resent him every single day for all of it.  Sure, at the time I couldn't see it.  It all made sense to me at the time and I felt like I was doing what was best for "our relationship".  Except that if I would have been really honest with myself I would have known it was all a lie.

Please take some time to REALLY listen to your heart and mind and decide whether this is how you want to live your life.  It will be painful if you break up.  It will.  But fast forward 20 years... . I have wanted to leave H for the past 16 years, but we have kids and it became complicated, especially because of his BPD.  I guarantee you that I wish I would have withstood the pain of our breakup 19 years ago and moved on with my life.  What I would give now to have just lived with that temporary pain... .

Be careful of allowing your happiness to be dictated by someone else - whether they seem to love you at the moment or whether they seem to be happy or whether they say they want to be with you for the rest of your life.  PAY ATTENTION TO WHAT YOU WANT AND WHAT YOU NEED.  Your happiness should come from within and should be a natural result of the relationship you are in, not a result of where you think the other person is at with their emotions.

I hope things work out for you.   

[SadWifeofBPD]

SadWife... . what do you mean the 5 hour distance is irrelevant? I'm not sure I understand.

You mentioned that you kind of understood his cheating because you're 5 hours away.

Then you say that he's now "cheating" by texting and having online communications with other women.  That isn't "in-person" therefore the distance you two have is irrelevant. These women can also be 5 hours or more away.  Even if they're closer to him, what difference does that make if their communication is virtual?   If texting and being online "satisfies" him, then texting, calling, etc, with you should satisfy him.