I have a new best friend?

[Depression = 72% of members]

I don't know exactly what's going on here.  Posted about this but last week we had a sort of crazy text/phone exchange last week.  He (who dumped me) can't handle feeling like the "bad guy" (or me dating someone else but that's another story.)  So anyway I let him off the hook.  Told him I was doing well with everything (total lie).  Knew it wasn't working.  Still cared about his enormously but this was best for both of us. That seemed to make him really happy.  He was texting all night... . quippy stuff and I'm always here if you ever need anything type of thing.  All good.  (In the seven weeks since the break up he's only initiated contact a couple of times when he was clearly drunk and worried about me dating.)  Then Friday I get a text asking for my opinion on a business thing.  This weekend I get a follow up on that.  Today I get emails asking me to review something (business) he had written.  (I used to rewrite for him all the time.)  The email kind of hurt because he's never called me Emelie... . it was always Baby or Sweetheart.  He addressed this one to "Em... . "  I know he's all good now and wants to be "pals".  I don't want to be a drama queen or make a big issue of it but I'm still really hurting and it's tough.  It's tough to be treated like a "pal".   I don't know what to make of it or how to react.

[Emelie Emelie]

I don't know exactly what's going on here.  Posted about this but last week we had a sort of crazy text/phone exchange last week.  He (who dumped me) can't handle feeling like the "bad guy" (or me dating someone else but that's another story.)  So anyway I let him off the hook.  Told him I was doing well with everything (total lie).  Knew it wasn't working.  Still cared about his enormously but this was best for both of us. That seemed to make him really happy.  He was texting all night... . quippy stuff and I'm always here if you ever need anything type of thing.  All good.  (In the seven weeks since the break up he's only initiated contact a couple of times when he was clearly drunk and worried about me dating.)  Then Friday I get a text asking for my opinion on a business thing.  This weekend I get a follow up on that.  Today I get emails asking me to review something (business) he had written.  (I used to rewrite for him all the time.)  The email kind of hurt because he's never called me Emelie... . it was always Baby or Sweetheart.  He addressed this one to "Em... . "  I know he's all good now and wants to be "pals".  I don't want to be a drama queen or make a big issue of it but I'm still really hurting and it's tough.  It's tough to be treated like a "pal".   I don't know what to make of it or how to react.

[Learning_curve74]

"I hate you, don't leave me."

Emelie, it can be confusing but he doesn't love or process his emotions like you because of the BPD. He can't accept the shame of having raked you over the emotional coals, but if he can say he is friends with you, then he can feel like everything he did was hunky dory. Because who would still be friends with an ex that treated them awful? Well, he couldn't have been all that bad to you after all then, right?  

Another purpose is to keep you around as another person to use for soothing, whether that is during stressful times or to avoid feeling empty and alone.

My BPDex wanted the same thing, to be "best friends". I was foolish but not stupid so my answer was NO. Maybe you can handle it but few people can.

[Ironmanrises]

Emelie,

This is the transition from the discard into the Idealize phase. The in between period.

NC will protect you from this. Otherwise, you will find yourself in the idealize phase. And that has one inevitable outcome... . He will hurt you again.

I know you are trying to make sense of it. Believe me, as you can see from my posts, i struggle with all of this on far too many levels myself.

I know you are hurting. The damage of the after effects of these relationships.

Saddens me beyond words sometimes.

[Emelie Emelie]

"I hate you, don't leave me."

Emelie, it can be confusing but he doesn't love or process his emotions like you because of the BPD. He can't accept the shame of having raked you over the emotional coals, but if he can say he is friends with you, then he can feel like everything he did was hunky dory. Because who would still be friends with an ex that treated them awful? Well, he couldn't have been all that bad to you after all then, right? 

Another purpose is to keep you around as another person to use for soothing, whether that is during stressful times or to avoid feeling empty and alone.




My BPDex wanted the same thing, to be "best friends". I was foolish but not stupid so my answer was NO. Maybe you can handle it but few people can.

I get that part.

In his opinion I've been a super bhit whenever I indicated I was hurting.  He has a great deal of shame about his behaviors.  That's why "I let him off the hook."  Told him I was okay... . it was all good.  He quite frankly doesn't need anymore shame or guilt.  And I'm not a total Pollyanna.  But I do still care for him a great deal and I was worried about him.  He wasn't doing so well there for awhile.  (He didn't want to get back together but he was lonely and hurting.)  It also allowed me to salvage a little self respect because I was such a sobbing mess at first.  (Okay... . still am... . but not in front of him anymore.)  I'm also trying to detach in "love" for my own peace of mind.

But I certainly wasn't expecting all this contact.  I was thinking about this today.  Would I rather have him in my life as a friend or not at all?  He is very important to me.  But can I handle just being his "friend"?  The last seven weeks have been brutal.  And I wondered if at least just having some friendly contact with him might help ease me out of it.  Then again we had a "friendly" exchange last week which degenerated into something else again when I didn't reply fast enough so he decided I was on a date and got all nasty about it.  (I hate you - Don't leave me)  But I think you nailed it.  He needs to keep me around at least until he finds someone else.  In which case I'm sure he'll "dump" me again.  And I don't need to feel abandoned all over again.   I guess I'll have to tread very softly here and pay close attention to how this makes me feel.  And who knows?  I may not hear from him again for weeks if at all.

You got me thinking about the first time we broke up.  My Grandmother, who I was very close to,  was in an Alzheimer's care facility about three hours away.  No family there.  So he'd go with me once a month to visit.  Lift her into and out of the car so I could take her out for awhile.  He was really sweet about it and awesome with her.  Well a couple days after the break up (and I was devastated about it) she died.  We were still talking.  He called the next day and asked if I'd "allow" him to escort me to my Grandmother's funeral.  I said you know what?  I think that would make you feel better... . being the good guy and all... . but it will make an already difficult day much harder on me.  He was NOT happy with that response.  But I really believed it was the truth.  As it happened we did get back together and he did escort me to the funeral.  But he told me if we hadn't he would have gone anyway.  And I thought sure you would have.  Difficult on me or not.  So you'd look like a "good guy" to my brother and the few close friends who were going to be there.  I guess this is the same type of thing.  Difficult on me or not it makes him feel better.  And one of the times he called me Friday he had his mother in the car.  See Mom?  Relationship number 27 just crashed and burned but we're good.  (She liked me.)  He also made a big point of telling me (on the second date) that it always ends well with him.  If I saw anyone of my old girlfriends I'd give them a big hug and a kiss and be happy to see them.  I misinterpreted that at first.  I thought it meant okay... . he's a 50 year old guy who has never been married.  He's telling me he's not in anything for the long haul.  But it was probably just his shame and guilt over the last one.  Or the last ten.  Or twenty.

Ironman you may be right but I really do not think he wants to get back together... . ever.  He's done.  And I'm trying to be grateful for that.  Because I don't know if I'd have the strength to refuse him if he did come back.

[seeking balance]

Boundaries - plain and simple.

If you don't want to be called babe - simply say it.  If you don't enforce your own minor boundaries, how do you expect your pwBPD to know what they are?

Since you are in daily contact - you might find the staying board can help you in terms of boundaries and the needed communication tools to maintain a friendly relationship.

Staying doesn't have to mean romantic and that board is much better equipped to help you in terms of the skills you need to be in a friendship with a pwBPD.

Peace,

SB

[Learning_curve74]

But I certainly wasn't expecting all this contact.  I was thinking about this today.  Would I rather have him in my life as a friend or not at all?  He is very important to me.  But can I handle just being his "friend"?  The last seven weeks have been brutal.  And I wondered if at least just having some friendly contact with him might help ease me out of it.  Then again we had a "friendly" exchange last week which degenerated into something else again when I didn't reply fast enough so he decided I was on a date and got all nasty about it.  (I hate you - Don't leave me)  But I think you nailed it.  He needs to keep me around at least until he finds someone else.  In which case I'm sure he'll "dump" me again.  And I don't need to feel abandoned all over again.   I guess I'll have to tread very softly here and pay close attention to how this makes me feel.  And who knows?  I may not hear from him again for weeks if at all.

Obviously only you can make the decision as to whether you could eventually be just friends, Emelie. Remember that even close friends could be subject to the BPD push/pull behavior. Not meaning to overgeneralize, but I know my BPDex had this dynamic with every person she was very close to from exes to her closest friends. You probably need to have to have very strong boundaries to protect yourself. For myself I need NC because the wound is too fresh and raw, but I don't think I can ever be friends because many of the things she does go against my core values.

Best wishes towards your healing.

[patientandclear]

SB, I think Emelie was saying he used to call her "babe" but is now using her name, and that is hurtful.  Not to say inappropriate, just -- hurtful.  Emelie, I completely identify.  While we were "in love," every message was "mornin' my love!" and so on.  After the breakup, joltingly, it was "hey P&C."  I got so I hated the "hey."  He doesn't do it anymore BTW -- I think it is also hard on him.  We just don't use salutations like that at all.

To the central question of this post: I am close friends with my uBPDex, two years after we split, one year after I ended a 10 month period of pristine NC with an offer of friendship.  Yes, he had wanted to stay in touch initially; I did for a little bit, but it was hard to endure the changed communication dynamics (I'd text; he'd reply politely but it was clear he really didn't want to be talking with me, and that was so awful compared to the recent past) and then it appeared he was starting to pursue another woman.  That was too hard for me to watch.  I told him I needed to say goodbye, at least for the time being, because it was too hard to be in contact and to want more.  Told him I'd be in touch when & if I could be "just" his friend.

It took me 10 months to get to that point.

But maybe you are stronger than I was and can deal with the disappointed hopes and dreams sooner than I could.  If you do try to be friends at whatever juncture, here is what I think you will experience, based on my own very challenging last year doing that.

I think you will try to have the mental discipline that this is a friendship only.  But he will surprise you with how close he pulls you.  You will be like a partner in all but name and, perhaps, physical contact.  And you will start to wonder how it is possible to be so close to and so happy with another person, and not be together.  Yet it will be like there is a glass wall between you and him, and no matter what, you cannot get through it to get from "very very close" to "partners."  Because he is dedicated to denying that that is what it is.  As friend of mine said, "he can only be intimate with you by denying it."

And that will be hard.  And then add in that, whenever you get really close or have a really good time, he will likely freak out and disappear, for hours, days, even weeks.  If you ever try to discuss the nature of your r/s or any changes you would like him to consider making, he may disappear for a lot longer (10 weeks in my case, and he'd probably still be gone if I hadn't reached out to him).

And then you'll be wondering where this super close wonderful friend just went, and what's wrong with you that he went, and what delightful, compelling way you need to act to get him to not do that again ... . it can really trigger some dysfunctional attention-seeking behaviors on our part, not because there is anything wrong with us, but because these are extraordinarily difficult shifts in cues for anyone to process.  When you've been in the warmth and then it is taken away for no reason you can understand, you want it back, and you don't know how to get it back, so anxiety is high and resolution low.

All that said, I appreciate our current r/s and am planning to maintain it.  Contrary to what one sometimes hears, he is reciprocal and caring toward me -- just on his own schedule and not necessarily when I most need it.  He is also, basically, consistent -- it's just that contact with him is a consistent sine curve.  He pulls in close, he backs away, he pulls in close, he backs away.  That is what he does -- that is how, I think, he manages the anxiety that is inherent in closeness, for him.  I've learned that all attempts to control or tame the dynamic, fail.  I've accepted that this is the dynamic & I've reassured him that I like him as he is.

We do not discuss our romantic r/s, or current dating.  I don't know that he is seeing anyone but I don't know that he is not.  I have dated, but no one I've encountered since him is as interesting to me as he is (a familiar story around here).  That doesn't mean I'd be closed if I did meet such a person.

I've learned some things the hard way about dealing with him.  He projects like crazy.  When he does things that are problematic for our r/s (and I've seen him do this with others too), it is always something I actually did.  I'd bet you a lot of money that if you asked him right now, he'd say I am the one who broke us up.  He is incredibly sensitive to the idea that I want to save or fix him or have some kind of hidden agenda to trap him.  I've had to ferret out & eradicate a latent desire to "show him" how genuine love works, "teach him" that it is possible, etc., because though I don't think I made that explicit more than once or twice, he was highly sensitive to it.  He still is just a heartbeat away from the conclusion that I have completely tricked & disappointed him (when we get really close, sometimes he'll seize on some small thing I said that was "offensive" or hurtful to him, ending the reverie and re-establishing that he doesn't trust me not to hurt him).  He is eternally on guard, in other words, against my disappointing and hurting him, and I've accepted it will be that way, not because he doesn't care about me, but because he does, and the fear that triggers in him is enormous.

Also, he continues to use his life-long strategies (he is 50) to make himself feel better.  He makes sudden, impulsive moves, including moves that are hard for me to adjust to.  For example, he moved from our city across the country on 3 weeks' notice this spring.  He does not wish to be challenged about such things and shows no insight into his pattern of just changing things for the sake of changing.  For that reason, even though I see no evidence of it, I suspect he will continue to look for The One -- the woman who will never hurt him, will be identical to him in all ways, and despite how close we are, that is not me, because he has been hurt because of me, in the way that all pwBPD are hurt by all people they are close to, because they play out that story even if there is no material to work with.

So ... . I'm betting that's what it would be like.  Contrary to a lot of the received wisdom, I believe you can create an unusual, odd, boundary-challenging, meaningful, enduring friendship with a BPDex.  But it will tug at your heartstrings in all kinds of ways, & require a ton of radical acceptance and self-scrutiny about your agenda.  The biggest challenge for me has been to be true to what I promised him: that if he doesn't want to have sex, say we're in love, call this a partnership -- I am OK with that, not on a secret campaign to change it.  I find that super hard given that we have so many of the ingredients of "true love," including, now, having slogged through a lot of hard times to figure out how to do this.  He is a sexual abuse victim and I think to him, the ultimate source of his fears of intimacy are that someone will pretend to be his friend and then secretly want something else from him, especially sex.  So being true to that boundary has been essential on my side.  And it's super hard.

Neither route here is an easy one.  If it is a true friendship, of course, it will still be there if you want to take some NC time to steady yourself and find your feet vis-a-vis him.  I will say I think our NC period was incredibly hard for my ex and he still makes occasional reference to my having "suddenly disappeared" and having built something with him that I pulled apart. I don't regret it -- I would have turned into a bowl of jello with him otherwise -- but if you do that, if you can possibly explain that you are going to come back if you find that you can do so and be emotionally healthy, that would be nice.

Last point: contrary to much of what we say around here, and how we experience it in our intense hurt, I think pwBPD actually take relationships incredibly seriously.  They're dealing with all kinds of destructive, fearful, counterproductive, defensive instincts, and then projection fouls up the storyline in their mind so who did what isn't even clear.  But I think the desire to be friends after is not some base "narcissistic supply" strategy for many, but rather, the wish to salvage something they think they can manage from the wreckage of something that was incredibly important to them.  That doesn't mean we have to do it, but I don't see anything ugly about the impulse.

[Scout99]

Last point: contrary to much of what we say around here, and how we experience it in our intense hurt, I think pwBPD actually take relationships incredibly seriously.  They're dealing with all kinds of destructive, fearful, counterproductive, defensive instincts, and then projection fouls up the storyline in their mind so who did what isn't even clear.  But I think the desire to be friends after is not some base "narcissistic supply" strategy for many, but rather, the wish to salvage something they think they can manage from the wreckage of something that was incredibly important to them.  That doesn't mean we have to do it, but I don't see anything ugly about the impulse.

I totally agree with you here! Many of them take relationships very seriously and doesn't really want things to end, but gets themselves entangled in their own fears and pain and it becomes impossible to sustain it... .   But I believe they don't want to loose the person they wanted to have the relationship with, they just realize they cannot give what is needed for the relationship to work, and they get too frustrated being in it so they have to get out... . Sometimes I think it is the friendships that survive their relationships that become the most important things in their lives... . But making that transition is hard on the other partner... . And one shouldn't get into that unless one really would also value the friendship... . A friendship that will also be very much about their terms... .

Best Wishes

Scout99

[happylogist]

I agree with patientandclear ,  it is about some kind of friendship - a very giving one on the one part and very enduring. I personally could not do it and I am sometimes very sorry about losing a very close person, but in my circumstances this was the only right decision.

[seeking balance]

SB, I think Emelie was saying he used to call her "babe" but is now using her name, and that is hurtful.  Not to say inappropriate, just -- hurtful.  

Thank you for correcting me P&C - I misread the concern.

P&C has had a long road to a friendship and she spent a lot of time on the staying board (perhaps reading some of her staying threads may help you understand the road and recovery it takes to get to this point.   P&C has put in a lot of work)- to stay friends one must understand the disorder, have patience and skills including boundaries, communication tools and a place to regain balance when the cycle (push/pull) happens.

Again, you are welcome to post on leaving, but this board is really about detaching.  And to P&C's point, she did take a significant break from the relationship which she would likely tell you helped her detach enough to be capable of a friendship.

IMHO if you want a friendship it is more FAIR to you BOTH if you are on the staying board.

Peace,

SB