Hypervigilance residuals from relationship

[DeRetour]

Hey guys,

So, I just can't seem to stop trying to make sense out of some of these unsolved things that went on during the 14 month relationship. Over a year of hypervigilance and, I can't seem to shake it off! My mind is just racing...

My uBPD-exGF admitted to telling a handful of lies.

1) there was the story of how she met her ex. Let's just say it wasn't as wholesome as her initial story!

2) Then, there was the time she went to a late dinner with her co-worker friends, promising me she'd call, but stayed out and called much much later. I had a suspicion - turned out I was right - she wrote a "Missed Connections" ad for the bartender. I confronted her, she confessed, apologized, and turned it around on me - went on break!

3) And during the first few months of our relationship, I discovered she had a habit - webcamming. Found out on my birthday - same response when confronted. Promised to stop.

Looking back, this set a pattern for me - I felt I had to constantly suspect something was going on. But, if I looked remotely like I was thinking about such things (and she was very cued into this!), she'd probe. And this often led to fights. I say "fights" - that's what she called them. Usually it started with her asking me: "Are you okay? Because you're acting weird... . " And I'd have to downplay or act in conflict with what my gut was telling me.

Making sense out of what? Well. She kept her phone locked. Didn't share her Instagram account for the first few months - found that out myself when I saw photos of her daytrip with her supposed "Biffy" (aka, best friend) who she swore was a platonic friend. He was engaged. And, I never met him. There were 1 am texts from one or two guys from her past. There was the mysterious scratch mark that showed up on her thigh the night after we had a "fight" - I took her out to a $120 dinner and somehow we wound up in a fight that seemed largely staged by her, but the emotions seemed so real? And just to clarify - she left after our fight. The fight was basically her yelling, telling me she didn't want to fight in public, then adding that she wanted to get hit by a car because she didn't care. She ended up leaving and going home. The next day, she showed up with a scratch on her thigh (?). So yeah, my stomach just knots up even more tightly and my blood pressure goes up. I'm sorry to sound melodramatic, this is just driving. me. crazy.

I don't want her back at all. So why would I want to solve these things? I'm just torturing myself with these thoughts. Anyone else deal with this? And how do you stop thinking such thoughts?

Sorry to regress. I am focused on healing, but I can't deny that these thoughts still spin. Thanks for reading.

deretour

EDIT: You know, I guess it's just that I keep thinking: What's wrong with me? What was it about me that I just wasn't enough for her? Yeah, I know... . it's the illness. But seriously, I shouldn't have to say I have plenty to offer. But... . I feel like such a loser. Is this all I have to look forward to in the future with any woman? Sorry. Yes, I realize that doesn't really help or make sense. Sorry again!

[DeRetour]

Okay. The best thing to do at this moment is get myself back to sleep. That's a positive step I'll take. So sorry I resorted to that rant, that was a bit regressive. I'll try and post something more constructive in my next one. Think good thoughts.

deretour

[snappafcw]

You have the right to feel how you feel. Right now how you are feeling is how I feel too. I don't want her back but there is always that part of us that needs the closure because it validates us... . But it's not going to happen and this has been the hardest thing to accept. Being discarded like I meant nothing and not know why... . In the end I guess it doesn't matter. Anyone who loves us wouldn't leave us anyway reasons aside I guess it is what it is

[mitchell16]

DeRetour, Im with you here. Im doing the same thing. Mine did such similar things it always caused me suspcion and what i found whenever I was suspcious I was alway right. Im still having alot of trouble letting go, we havenet been togther in almost 2 months but thefirst 3 or 4 weeks she was conatcting me and I would respond. I quit it and the contact from her know is only about every 7 or 8 days.

The first lie. lied to me about about an out of town trip. said she was going to familys met ex boyfirend. I confronter her prior because I was suspcious somethig wasnt making sense. she denied and denied. later she confessed but it was my fault becasue she could tell me the truth.

second lie. out of town trip again, told me I needed to be with other women before she left, refused to let me drive to eet her during the weekend. Broke up with me as soon as she came home. Pulled me back in 4 days later, had some man texting her from the weekend. That was her fault her cousin gave him her number Hmmm.

third lie. Told me she would be working late, whne she got of work told me she could talk becasue her battery was low. Found out later that that she was in  a bar drunk and then later some man was texting her again. of course wasnt her fault her friend gave this man her number nd she didnt want to lie but she just couldnt tell me the truth.

and just goes on and on. so it got to where I was suspcious of everything she did, becasue I could never tell what was a lie. and I wonder why I still care at this point you think i would or should be relieved that Im not living this crap still but the truth i still think about it all the time. and Im still sad.

[Moonie75]

Oh I've done this as well, and too much of it if I'm honest. I've sat & thought back to events (many events) where my gut told me one thing & she told me I was wrong!

I even started saying to her, and this is embarrassing to admit, "I accept that things aren't always what they look like. But you seem to always have situations that aren't what they look like & that defies the laws of average."

Of course it was what it looked like, ALWAYS EXACTLY WHAT IT LOOKED LIKE!

I get so angry with myself now for believing her instead of my gut! I know why, because lying to myself was easier than facing up to my fears being true!

I could right a book about it all, but NOBODY would believe it was not a work of fiction!

[bpdspell]

I guess it's just that I keep thinking: What's wrong with me? What was it about me that I just wasn't enough for her? Yeah, I know... . it's the illness. But seriously, I shouldn't have to say I have plenty to offer. But... . I feel like such a loser. Is this all I have to look forward to in the future with any woman? Sorry. Yes, I realize that doesn't really help or make sense. Sorry again!

A big part of our obsessive thoughts and incessant thinking is driven by this core belief: figuring out why we weren't good enough for them. It's a narrative that lives in many of us on here that needs to be re-written so that we stop brow beating ourselves with feeling responsible for them abandoning us. Are you in Therapy?

The obsessive thoughts are simply a part of a BPD breakup. The only thing you can do is be proactive in taking care of yourself as best as you can in this very sensitive emotional time. Your mind is trying to make sense out of madness and pretzel logic but it won't because you aren't mentally ill. They look normal on the outside but on the inside lives a different painted picture and it's the real THEM. Your ex's behavior was not caused by you. She behaved this way with others before you and will continue to do so after. BPD is not personal; it's who they are at they're core.

The lies, the pretzel logic, the manipulation, the triangulation, the betrayal, the cheating are all apart of the disorder of BPD. They are really sick people who have an unstable core identity. Their behavior is all about them; not us. They blame us to absolve themselves from the shame and guilt that they feel. They cannot maintain closeness, intimacy or vulnerability. It is very painful for them.

They truth is that you are good enough and always will be. You just need to grow into the understanding that being good enough for you is all that matters. Our ex's do not hold the keys to our salvation or validation. Validation comes from within. I know it sounds cliche but it's a truth that we all must grow into so we aren't so easily duped into believing that our happiness comes from others.

Spell

[livednlearned]

Not sure if this helps or not -- but I didn't get to the bottom of this until I realized that my dad lied to me as a kid. He would say, "I have integrity" and I would believe him, like that alone erased the number of lies he told. I can't believe how effective it was to have him tell me how great he was. It made me overlook the truth and inconsistencies. Then I married N/BPDx and it was exactly the same. 

So some of the ruminating, at least for me, was tied to a hamster wheel I was on from childhood going forward. It wasn't until recognizing that I equated love with lying that the ruminations dried up.

[tailspin]

DeRetour,

Obsessive thoughts dredge up all the unresolved issues and questions we experienced during the relationship.  The obsession continues because you're missing the point.  You are not trying to solve why she did these things; you're trying to solve why you thought her behavior was ok to the point of not doing anything about it.  We've all been there; we kept quiet, looked the other way, rationalized explanations and made excuses for our ex's behaviors... . all to our detriment.  

I know it's difficult, but it's time to ask yourself why you didn't resolve these issues as they were happening and why you didn't walk away at the first sign of disrespect; it's time to turn the focus onto you. 

Until you take a closer look at your own behaviors you will not stop obsessing over hers.  

Exploration of your deepest fears will unlock the door to freedom for you.  All you need is the courage to take the first step.

tailspin  

[seeking balance]

Looking back, this set a pattern for me - I felt I had to constantly suspect something was going on. But, if I looked remotely like I was thinking about such things (and she was very cued into this!), she'd probe. And this often led to fights. I say "fights" - that's what she called them. Usually it started with her asking me: "Are you okay? Because you're acting weird... . " And I'd have to downplay or act in conflict with what my gut was telling me.

A simplistic definition of projection (maladaptive coping tool) is when a person literally creates a situation where they can "place" their emotions on someone else.  This is common in BPD relationships and it can lead to all sorts of ruminations and chaos in the mind and emotions of the person who was projected upon.

So, like some wise others said - stop focusing on your ex - when did you feel this way in your childhood? 

[Ironmanrises]

I am struggling with this too.

I just need it to make sense to me... . perhaps therein lies the problem, making sense out of a disorder which makes no sense.

So confusing.

It feels like i am drawing diagrams with straws outside on a windy day.

Futile. Maddening.

[seeking balance]

I am struggling with this too.

I just need it to make sense to me... . perhaps therein lies the problem, making sense out of a disorder which makes no sense.

The disorder makes no logical sense to a non-disordered person.

However, the actual facts of the disorder lead to behaviors that make sense in a disordered persons brain.  Believe it or not, if you can accept the facts of BPD as they are, the maladaptive coping mechanisms make complete sense.

It helped me detach when I really really focused on the facts of BPD.  I focused on the treatment of DBT to better understand it, I read from those recovered and I was able to see the patterns.  Then I was able to grieve my own feelings from a rational and balanced place.

[Ironmanrises]

Seeking,

I guess i really need to accept it first in its entirety. A humbling realization.

I have so many repairs to make within me.

[Scout99]

Hi DeRetour!

First of all I think you are being a little bit hard on yourself for dwelling on these issues that most of us here have been or are dwelling on! It is only natural that we want to find some kind of applicable logic to often really weird situations that we get ourselves into because of our BPD loved ones disorder... . Sometimes we do however have to arrive at a stop when there just is no logical answer to be found, and we also have to get sometimes to the point of  (radical) acceptance where we just simply accept that a dirordered mind will do disordered and illogical things and usually not really because of us and usually also regardless of whether or not we from some logical understanding would've, could've should've done something differently... . That is, many times it would not have mattered whatever we would have done... . Because pwBPD do have their disorder in common, but there are differences in severity, differences in individuality and also differences in where they are in life... . And all of that is pretty much beyond our control, regardless of how much we have loved them or tried everything really... . It is a hard to swallow kind of fact, but a fact all the same... .

Anyway, if you want my individual reflexion or take on it here goes... . ;

My uBPD-exGF admitted to telling a handful of lies.

1) there was the story of how she met her ex. Let's just say it wasn't as wholesome as her initial story!

2) Then, there was the time she went to a late dinner with her co-worker friends, promising me she'd call, but stayed out and called much much later. I had a suspicion - turned out I was right - she wrote a "Missed Connections" ad for the bartender. I confronted her, she confessed, apologized, and turned it around on me - went on break!

3) And during the first few months of our relationship, I discovered she had a habit - webcamming. Found out on my birthday - same response when confronted. Promised to stop.

Lying is strongly connected to feelings of shame and guilt. And shame and guilt is usually the reason why anyone ever chooses to tell a lie about ourselves or about circumstances... . Shame and guilt is also part of the core traits among pw BPD since it is connected to their disordered and destructive schemas consisting of primarily fear of abandonment, fear of not being good enough as they are and fear of not being lovable.

1. Lying about relationships is usually about feelings of being inadequate as you are and feeling that there is something shameful about in this case then how the former relationship started or behaviors around it... . About being judged for not doing things "right". And if you see yourself as someone not worthy of being loved for who you are but for instance solely based on your actions, then your actions have to be if not perfect so at least morally correct or politically correct or something like it... . If she felt her former r/s lacked in any of those areas, she would be afraid that you would not accept her, so she told a lie to cover up for the shame she feels around that issue... .

Most pw BPD are very here and now oriented so thoughts of being "caught with a lie" would not normally enter the mind at that stage. And or the trait of actually rewriting history and lying to oneself is not uncommon either which explains such actions too... .

2. When confronted or caught in a lie a pw BPD will take that very hard... . Here black and white thinking kicks in. And she may very well see it as if it would make you "hate her" for being such a bad person... . (a.k.a an unlovable person not worthy of your love). That will cause her emotional injury since it touches on the core traumas from her past, (traumas she may be aware of or will just bring back memories of the feeling from the trauma). Again this is in her mind justified or just a figment of her processing of painful memories from the past in her imagination... . logic does not apply here... . that is it wouldn't matter if you would profess to her it was ok or not. it is part of her disordered perception of life in regards to her unstable self.

Being caught also triggers shame and guilt. And to avoid the pain deflecting it by "turning it on you", projecting the blame on you she can dissociate and flea the pain. Which is really what taking a break is all about... . facing you means facing the music, and the music is to her pain... .

3. Webcamming is again about shame and guilt... . She probably does it and likes it since it is a great source for validation feeding the often endless need that the feelings of not being worthy of true love often if not always brings... . She however probably perceives it as something shameful that not "normal" people do, and senses that you at least don't like it, so if she is to get to keep you she will promise to stop... . But like all addictions, or things we do on a "need" basis - such habits are really hard to break... . So she runs away, takes a break, stick her head into the sand... .

So behind most lying coming from a pw BPD or not is always, always ingrained in shame and guilt... . And for a pw BPD it also is connected to their core fears, that are disordered... .

Looking back, this set a pattern for me - I felt I had to constantly suspect something was going on. But, if I looked remotely like I was thinking about such things (and she was very cued into this!), she'd probe. And this often led to fights. I say "fights" - that's what she called them. Usually it started with her asking me: "Are you okay? Because you're acting weird... . " And I'd have to downplay or act in conflict with what my gut was telling me.

The thing is, there is always something going on inside the mind of a pw BPD... . They are in a way prisoners in their own disordered minds, and feel inadequate and like something is wrong with them compared to others all the time, so there is always something that needs to be covered up, perhaps lied about, measures taken to prevent being caught in a to them shameful act or just simply struggling with all sorts of pain and conflicting emotions... . And fight and flight, our stress coping strategies are always working full strength in them... . It is very much the reason this is a disorder... . So it is not, from an objective point, not strange at all that you as a non feels the way you did!

Argument, discussion, altercation, or just simply conversation that in any way to them can be interpreted, (through their disordered minds and filtered through their ever present core fears), as criticism of them or creating conflicting emotions in them, will to them always, always feel like a fight! And triggers tons of shame and guilt... . Hence overreacting is to be expected and withdrawal or overcompensating acts like cheating or silent treatment or probing will usually follow... . They have a hard time with self soothing and taking on an outside perspective on anything, so everything will be taken extremely personal... .

As partners we are not unaffected by this! We either begin to walk on eggshells or downplay things as you put it or we try to "fix" things for them or begin to avoid speaking our mind... . Which in turn they usually pick up on, since they are so highly sensitive and perceptive of signals... . Discussing things on an intellectual level usually doesn't work very well with many pw BPD because of these reasons... . And that is frustrating! However there are ways for us to cope with that as well, by using for instance neutral communication skills that can offer an alternative to confrontation. But still it doesn't prevent all form of confrontation or even conflict, and it indeed shouldn't either... . Having a relationship, with anybody, regardless of BPD have to be fulfilling and accepting of both partners. So confrontation should not always be avoided even if the pw BPD may not react in a normal way to it... . (At least that is my conclusion... .  )

Making sense out of what? Well. She kept her phone locked. Didn't share her Instagram account for the first few months - found that out myself when I saw photos of her daytrip with her supposed "Biffy" (aka, best friend) who she swore was a platonic friend. He was engaged. And, I never met him. There were 1 am texts from one or two guys from her past. There was the mysterious scratch mark that showed up on her thigh the night after we had a "fight" - I took her out to a $120 dinner and somehow we wound up in a fight that seemed largely staged by her, but the emotions seemed so real? And just to clarify - she left after our fight. The fight was basically her yelling, telling me she didn't want to fight in public, then adding that she wanted to get hit by a car because she didn't care. She ended up leaving and going home. The next day, she showed up with a scratch on her thigh (?). So yeah, my stomach just knots up even more tightly and my blood pressure goes up. I'm sorry to sound melodramatic, this is just driving. me. crazy.

Secrets and hiding what they do is just like in the case of the webcam a matter of preventing the to them horrifying feelings of again shame and guilt.

Picking a fight at a restaurant is usually connected to a combination of overly high expectations of how nice the dinner thing will be and a from probably other sources elevated state of anxiety. Many here on the boards can bare witness to the fact how so many pw BPD begin to dysregulate while anticipating something that is meant to be fun or good, like vacation, going somewhere nice or just make plans to meet... . So it is usually not staged, but cannot by them be prevented or stopped once the feelings begin to boil inside them... . They have to let it come out in order for them to get a "much needed" release... .

Threatening comments like wanting to be hit by a car is really jut a reflection on how frustrating it is to them to harbor conflicting emotions. Conflicting emotions is frustrating for anybody, BPD or non. But unbearable for a pw BPD... .

Important to understand as a Non is that it is hardly ever about us, but all about them and the continuous inner conflict/struggle/discomfort of having an ever changing mood and an unstable mind... .

I don't want her back at all. So why would I want to solve these things? I'm just torturing myself with these thoughts. Anyone else deal with this? And how do you stop thinking such thoughts?

Because we all do this... .  Getting into the life of a pw BPD is different and mostly like a whirlwind to us... . In some ways exciting and making us feel all alive and exited. But in some ways also plenty frustrated and confused! In short we get a pretty good dose of what it is probably like to be them all the time, but seen from a different perspective. And that raises a lot of questions and doubts in us, quite naturally... . Add to that also push and pull and idealization vs discard and weird conflicts that to us are no conflicts and a hard time understanding what in the world is making them: so upset, so secretive, so sneaky, cheat, lie and the list goes on... . We operate in the logical realm of things, or I should say - we have the luxury of having both our emotional as well as our intellectual mind intact and can balance stuff through that. They don't. So it is only natural that we attempt to add some logic to some of their highly emotional disordered thinking... .

And of course usually in the end, or at least if you find your way here, you have most likely gotten yourself hurt through your relationship and probably in a lot of illogical and confusing ways, and we try to make some sense of it... . to create some balance between thoughts and feelings... . And that is usually where we get a bit stuck. Since it is almost impossible to look at much of the stuff they do while dysregulating and find some logical sense in it, the situation... . Instead we need to lift our focus and look at what they do from the perspective of the disorder. And then look at ourselves and how we often try to respond to it using logic that doesn't work on them... . and the the miscommunication is on the roll... .

Sorry to regress. I am focused on healing, but I can't deny that these thoughts still spin. Thanks for reading.

deretour

EDIT: You know, I guess it's just that I keep thinking: What's wrong with me? What was it about me that I just wasn't enough for her? Yeah, I know... . it's the illness. But seriously, I shouldn't have to say I have plenty to offer. But... . I feel like such a loser. Is this all I have to look forward to in the future with any woman? Sorry. Yes, I realize that doesn't really help or make sense. Sorry again!

This too is all natural! We have all been there, or still are there depending on what our situation is... . When we are met with dysregulated and disordered behavior, (sometimes even to us crazy behavior), and we are cast here and there, loved one minute, pushed away the next and so on - it is only natural that we begin to look into ourselves and begin to blame ourselves for what's happening... . We can't make sense of it and still they seem to be very unhappy, so we assume the fault is ours... . when it is not... . We also miss them and want things to be like it was in the beginning... . And it is very easy to get yourself lost in that maze... . And we all have our own journey then to get out of it... . Dwelling is usually a part of all of our respective journeys and we have to learn how to accept that about ourselves too! It is ok to dwell for a bit! So don't feel that you have to apologize for it! I mean look! You made me write half a novel about it... . And that is healing for me!

So Hang in there! You are not alone! 

Best Wishes

Scout99

[bpdspell]

Awesome post Scott!

[DeRetour]

Ahh.

So many awesome posts indeed. Thank you all for taking a moment to respond. I'll start with Snap, Mitchell, Moonie, and Spell first... .

Snap,

there is always that part of us that needs the closure because it validates us... .

Yes, and I know I keep hearing that the solution is simple: validation comes from within. The question is: HOW? Haha. I know... therapy, focusing on me, keeping busy, etc.

Well, I’ll do what I can. Thanks for sharing your thoughts.

Mitchell,

what i found whenever I was suspcious I was alway right.

I was so stressed out, in such denial, that I couldn’t even decide for myself whether I was looking to support my suspicion or disprove it. I came close to ending things several times, but I suppose I ultimately decided to stay with her for those 14 months.

Oh, and once again, those lies you just described sounded so eerily similar to those of my ex. The whole “my phone battery is almost out” bit. So sorry you had to deal with that. It’s a sh!tty thing to have lived through. I totally feel you there with the things I've read of yours. Stay strong. Hang in there.

Moonie,

I even started saying to her, and this is embarrassing to admit, "I accept that things aren't always what they look like. But you seem to always have situations that aren't what they look like & that defies the laws of average."

So sorry Moonie. Man, I feel for you on the whole embarrassment bit. I never got around to saying anything quite like that. I often thought about it aloud at moments when (cringe) I waited for her to call me after work. (She lived with her parents, slept over maybe 4 nights/week. All other nights we talked on the phone for like an hour. Talking seemed to provide this temporary soothing to chronic worry about our relationship.) But yes, I guess I was just so scared of her leaving me, and she knew it. Confronting her often resulted in my having to assure her that my “doubts and insecurities” were getting better. Hah! I have to laugh at the absurdity of it.  

Spell,

A big part of our obsessive thoughts and incessant thinking is driven by this core belief: figuring out why we weren't good enough for them. It's a narrative that lives in many of us on here that needs to be re-written so that we stop brow beating ourselves with feeling responsible for them abandoning us.

So true. And thank you for that patient reminder. I know it can be frustrating to see someone go through the same old behavior when they should be intelligent enough to know better. What ever happened to plasticity and learning new behaviors? But there I go, browbeating myself, haha. And yes, I’m starting to come back around to looking at family of origin/childhood stuff. I thought that I had already addressed them when I went to 5 years of therapy previously.

EDIT: Spell, I like how you describe our beliefs as narratives. I used to call them mythologies, but somehow narrative is even more to the point. I know... just love words (words and a good story!) haha. But yes, the trick here is rewriting our narratives. And that leads to... .

Are you in Therapy?

Thanks for asking, Spell. Yes. I have made an appointment for next week. I’ll be working on recovery from this relationship, as well as some coping stuff for anxiety. Honestly, I just want to be done with this, for good. I’m so... SO sick of always feeling less than. It’s time to get over this and stop selling myself short.

Their behavior is all about them; not us.

…it's a truth that we all must grow into so we aren't so easily duped into believing that our happiness comes from others.

Yes. And I do agree here. This is where therapy begins, I suppose. Thank you so much for taking the time to read through that mess and offer your supporting thoughts. I know we’re all going through this. Take care of yourself. I’ll be reading more posts as well.

I've read through some good thoughts and insights here on this thread. I'll be getting back to more a little later. Thanks

[DeRetour]

DeRetour,

Obsessive thoughts dredge up all the unresolved issues and questions we experienced during the relationship.  The obsession continues because you're missing the point.

Ouch! I'm missing the point? Haha. Okay, well I do get the main message.  When I read this at first, admittedly I felt a bit criticized (perhaps something was lost in translation?), but I think I get what you mean here. And if so, then it's a good point - basically focus on yourself and the obsession/questions will diminish.

I know it's difficult, but it's time to ask yourself why you didn't resolve these issues as they were happening and why you didn't walk away at the first sign of disrespect; it's time to turn the focus onto you.  

Ah... okay Yes, and I have begun to ask these questions, but... . even still the thoughts have come back. Tailspin, thanks for reading that. I was in a very down place when I woke up in the middle of the night last night. But you took the time to read it and offered some good thoughts. It's nice to be reminded of the very thing you need to be doing. Take care.

[DeRetour]

Livednlearned:

So some of the ruminating, at least for me, was tied to a hamster wheel I was on from childhood going forward. It wasn't until recognizing that I equated love with lying that the ruminations dried up.

Ironman:

So confusing. It feels like i am drawing diagrams with straws outside on a windy day. Futile.  ddening.

[/color]

Livednlearned and Ironman,

I love metaphors and these both really makes sense.

Livednlearned, good for you that you were able to make that breakthrough. Like you, I'm also looking back at some things with my parents as well. It's so hard for me to face. I'm pretty sure my mother has some pd traits. And my father had some issues as well. I'll resist and save that for therapy. I think I'll discuss some in another thread.

Ironman, so sorry for your frustration. As you can see you're not alone. I have to say, I totally can relate to that feeling you describe when trying to make sense. It keeps coming back to this: things just won't make sense. I see that SB mentions something that helped with getting insight into BPD thinking.

Good thoughts here. Thank you!

[DeRetour]

SB,

The disorder makes no logical sense to a non-disordered person.

The funny thing is, one of her favorite things to say to me was, "That makes no sense!" I have to laugh.

It helped me detach when I really really focused on the facts of BPD.  I focused on the treatment of DBT to better understand it, I read from those recovered and I was able to see the patterns.  Then I was able to grieve my own feelings from a rational and balanced place.

With this in mind, would it help to pick up a book on DBT that's geared toward understanding BPD patterns? And if so, would you recommend any specific book?

So, like some wise others said - stop focusing on your ex - when did you feel this way in your childhood?

Aha. Now that's something to think about in therapy. Right off hand, I will say that I felt a lot of this really with both of my parents, at least until the divorce (age 11). They fought (violently) a lot, and when they weren't fighting, they seemed to relate very indirectly to us (the children).  I felt in limbo, paranoid, etc. Wow! Simple, but powerful question. Thank you!

EDIT: Specifically, it often felt like they were making plans for things without including us in the discussion. And, given how explosive and unpredictable things could potentially be, it often felt like they were plotting things. Everything was in 3rd person, behind closed doors. Also, I felt a lot of horror from my mother. She was very dramatic in how she responded to things, easily startled and quick to gasp. I learned later as an adult that she had been raped as a young child. So, sorry if that was a bit too much info, but my point here is that thinking about when these feelings were felt as a child is a good place to start. Thanks again.

deretour

[DeRetour]

Scout,

we also have to get sometimes to the point of  (radical) acceptance where we just simply accept that a disordered mind will do disordered and illogical things and usually not really because of us and usually also regardless of whether or not we from some logical understanding would've, could've should've done something differently... .

Yes, I want so badly to make this shift. It just seems like there’s all this unresolved energy and it has to go somewhere. I think this is part of what the concept of cognitive dissonance touches on, but I want to read more on that before concluding anything.

When confronted or caught in a lie a pw BPD will take that very hard... . Here black and white thinking kicks in. And she may very well see it as if it would make you "hate her" for being such a bad person... . (a.k.a an unlovable person not worthy of your love). That will cause her emotional injury since it touches on the core traumas from her past

Ah. Awesome. You brought two things together, that is: 1) black and white thinking and, 2)how the logic, in the mind of someone with BPD, might be something along the lines of:

“I was caught doing [undesirable behavior]. If he knows, then he will hate me because that’s the behavior of a bad girlfriend. I feel like a good girlfriend, therefore, I should/must not have done [undesirable behavior].” (meanwhile, as a backdrop, day to day and moment to moment, moods are changing and the pwBPD is struggling to maintain control of the situation at hand - in this instance, not being shamed or abandoned, in her mind).

So behind most lying coming from a pw BPD or not is always, always ingrained in shame and guilt... . And for a pw BPD it also is connected to their core fears, that are disordered... .

Yes, and I know that my ex carried a lot of shame with her. I feel sad thinking about that. Hm.

They are in a way prisoners in their own disordered minds, and feel inadequate and like something is wrong with them compared to others all the time, so there is always something that needs to be covered up, perhaps lied about, measures taken to prevent being caught in a to them shameful act or just simply struggling with all sorts of pain and conflicting emotions... .

You know, this makes sense to me, given what I’ve read about BPD (and it’s fascinating really). And when I think specifically of my ex, I can see how certain behaviors like keeping her phone locked, were perhaps measures that were intended more to impose some order where everything else, internally, was, well…chaos. In this sense, I can, at least for this moment (and I’m thankful for it!) think of this behavior as simply a safety measure, rather than something so personal.

We either begin to walk on eggshells or downplay things as you put it or we try to "fix" things for them or begin to avoid speaking our mind...

Thanks for helping clarify this.

Many here on the boards can bare witness to the fact how so many pw BPD begin to dysregulate while anticipating something that is meant to be fun or good, like vacation, going somewhere nice or just make plans to meet... . So it is usually not staged, but cannot by them be prevented or stopped once the feelings begin to boil inside them... . They have to let it come out in order for them to get a "much needed" release... .

Yes. I think this one is making some sense here. I’ll think more about this again later.

Important to understand as a Non is that it is hardly ever about us, but all about them and the continuous inner conflict/struggle/discomfort of having an ever changing mood and an unstable mind... .

The more examples I see/read of this phenomenon, the more it makes sense on a visceral level  

Since it is almost impossible to look at much of the stuff they do while dysregulating and find some logical sense in it, the situation... . Instead we need to lift our focus and look at what they do from the perspective of the disorder. And then look at ourselves and how we often try to respond to it using logic that doesn't work on them... . and then the miscommunication is on the roll... .

I think this is where perhaps reading up both on BPD and DBT geared for people suffering with BPD will be of good benefit. So much to read, but it will be interesting just the same.

It is ok to dwell for a bit! So don't feel that you have to apologize for it! I mean look! You made me write half a novel about it... . And that is healing for me!

Haha. I really appreciate that you took this time to offer some of your own insight here. Lots to think about. Thank you again. You hang in there is well, Scout!

deretour

[DeRetour]

Just another thought here. I've realized that part of why the lies (and resulting hypervigilance) hurt so much is that this reminds me (from another angle) that I only got to have one side of her. If the lies were told to regulate, or in this case, make her become the "good" girlfriend she wanted to be while with me, then when she wasn't with me, she was, perhaps very different. And that would explain the strange stuff she posted on social media. Ughh. Okay, I seriously need to stop thinking about this stuff, or I'll bring myself down. I think I need to do some relaxing reading or go take a night walk by the beach. Something to stop going back into ruminating. And I do still feel like I've reached a fuller understanding of this illness - thanks to everyone offering some valuable insight. So, it's a good step forward tonight.

Lots of good insight has been brought to this thread. Thanks!

[Learning_curve74]

Okay, I seriously need to stop thinking about this stuff, or I'll bring myself down. I think I need to do some relaxing reading or go take a night walk by the beach. Something to stop going back into ruminating. And I do still feel like I've reached a fuller understanding of this illness - thanks to everyone offering some valuable insight.

I think Scout delved especially deeply into the reasons behind why BPDers do crazy stuff.  

On the other hand, here is another thought. One of my friends would just say to me, "She is a lying, manipulative, cheater. You are a doormat." If we accept that statement, then the logical course of action is to understand why I was a doormat. To understand her: she had to lie and manipulate to not get caught cheating, and do you really need to know why she was a cheater? Would you forgive her if she was only doing it to win a million dollars on a crazy bet whereupon after receiving said prize she'd reveal it was all a ruse and declare her true love for you and only you?    Or is it easier to forgive her if she's merely mentally ill?  

[DeRetour]

I think Scout delved especially deeply into the reasons behind why BPDers do crazy stuff.

Yes, lots of good, helpful insights from Scout.

Learningcurve,

Would you forgive her if she was only doing it to win a million dollars on a crazy bet whereupon after receiving said prize she'd reveal it was all a ruse and declare her true love for you and only you?    Or is it easier to forgive her if she's merely mentally ill?

And yes, good point there