Wishful thinking: if it weren't for BPD we would be together/ok

[Learning_curve74]

I was thinking, and I believe a lot of you feel the same, that without BPD, we (BPDex and I) would be in a loving and healthy relationship together because she would be that nice loving person I fell for initially. But thinking about it clearly, wasn't the nice wonderful side a manifestation of BPD just as the mean awful side a manifestation of BPD?

She said I was so awesome, she needed me so much, she invited me to be deeply involved in her life, she said she couldn't live without me. Aren't these all things she said or did due to BPD idealization?

So without BPD, would I have even fallen so hard for her? I acknowledge this is still playing "what if" but with the goal of examining myself rather than invalidating myself.

I read this on the boards so much: I love my pwBPD but I hate BPD! Maybe without BPD, we wouldn't even recognize this person any more much less love them... .

[goodguy]

Yes, I think you're absolutely right about that! Its part of who they are. I

[eyvindr]

lc --

Yes, I think there's some truth to this fantasy.

I also think we have to be careful, though. One reason being that, as you note, it is part of "what if" wishful thinking. Another reason is that, for me, it helps keep me living on the fringes of the F.O.G. I start having imaginary conversations with my ex, as if I'm practicing my responses to make sure that they're exactly what I need her to hear, presented in a way that she will best be able to understand without feeling threatened or --

STOP! -- I have to tell myself. And then ask myself, "what are you practicing for? you aren't going to have this conversation, or any other -- because you can't have it!" That's the sad part. Because of the illness, these conversations, let alone our happy-ending fantasies only work out in our imaginations. Sure, I do believe that pwBPD can have r-ships. I believe they can get better, even. And there seems to be more and more literature to support this optimism. But, in everything optimistic that I've ever read, as well as from a professional T, there are a few consistent things:

• BPD is a serious illness



• Left untreated, BPD causes all manner of suffering for the person with the illness and those close to them



• Even if the pwBPD commits to ongoing treatment -- it is long, grueling and prone to setbacks.

That is what you get when you are involved with a pwBPD. You get them, and you love them, but you also get the illness with them, because they have it, and it messes everything up.

That said, it's a beautiful dream, I agree. I fell in love with that person. I got to know her very well. I know she's in there. She's sweet and kind. She's loving and affectionate, playful and sexy. She's funny and creative and easygoing. She's very bright, but not very serious, she laughs easily, and can be really funny. She's beautiful, warm, cuddly and she smells good. I love holding her and kissing her, hearing her voice and her laugh, and kissing away her tears when they fall.

Problem is, this BPD thing -- it makes her keep telling me "can't you see? this is the person who I am. this is the real me! If you could only understand how much I truly love you. I love you. I really, really love you very, very much. You just don't know." But then she behaves like someone completely different. There's this other person, who's impatient, judgmental and self-centered. Thoughtless. Insulting. Disrespectful of my time and my friends. Uninterested in anyone else's needs or priorities.

The woman I'm in love with makes beautiful promises to me. But BPD breaks all of them. I'll miss the woman I fell in love with, and I always forgive her. But I'll never forgive BPD for what it took from both of us. It took a lot. :'(

[Morrison11]

eyvindr-

wow, that was really a great way to sum it up.  I think you hit it on the head with that.  Its not that pwBPD aren't wonderful people deep down, its that the illness prevents them from showcasing their beauty at every moment.  I truly believe my BPDxgf is the most wonderful, beautiful spirit I've ever had the pleasure of knowing.  She is sweet and thoughtful, beyond intelligent, she lights up a room with her smile and sense of humor, she fits perfectly into my arms, and she is capable of great things.  But the BPD puts all of that on hold.  The BPD won't let the beauty of those traits surmount.

I miss my BPDxgf, but I know that what I miss is a manifestation of the illness itself.  I hate thinking that everything we shared wasn't real, so I instead think of it as, everything we shared was real, and it only got complicated when the BPD symptoms flared and she pulled herself out of DBT and was no longer coping or practicing being well.

learning_curve-

I completely relate to your post, and sometimes feeling like it wasn't idealization, it was a real fairytale, until the BPD got in the way.  I think thats why BPD romantic relationships are so different from any other, and why they are so much more difficult to get over.  We all have had our fair share of relationships, but what makes BPD relationships different is that the intensity was real, and it is sometimes very difficult to let the BPD be the scapegoat for taking away our hopes and dreams with this person we loved so deeply. 

The reality of experiencing the motions of a BPD romantic relationship is tough to swallow, but it makes us stronger people, and proves that we have the capacity to love someone else in such a selfless and devoted way.  These message boards are a great support system, because they are filled with folks who have the same first hand experience that we have.  People who have not been in BPD relationships just won't get it.  But I do, I completely get you and what you are saying.  Stay strong over there!

[talithacumi]

Nice thread, and great comments/insights all.

Having done a bunch of work on my core issues, I like to remind myself that I wouldn't have been attracted/attractive TO, and been able to stay WITH my ex if it weren't for the BPD either.

So long as we both remained in denial about the emotional dynamics that actually drew/held us together, I think we did okay. Not great. Always something missing. But really truly okay for the most part.

Him cheating to self-soothe wasn't what did us in. It was him getting caught cheating - the inescapable threat that posed to him of ultimately being rejected/abandoned by me for it - that made everything spiral so suddenly/violently out of control for both of us - me finally getting to see/experience everything he actually perceived, understood, believed, felt, thought in all its heretofore unseen BPD glory.

The challenge for me has been to accept that this IS who he actually is, has been the entire time I've known him, and was long before we ever met ... . and to try to love or at least have as much compassion for those parts of him he worked so long/hard to hide from me as I did/do for those he felt safe enough all those years to share with me.

I'm - um - not QUITE there yet. But I'm working on it.

- TC 

[Clearmind]

"if it weren't for BPD we would be together/ok" - No

Regardless of BPD my ex and I were grossly incompatible

[Ironmanrises]

Learning,

I know what you are trying to say.

Its part of the whole cruel paradox of having been in this type of relationship.

I literally cried reading this.

I just picture this lovely human being that long ago was treated awfully... . Awful beyond words... . Physically/sexually/emotionally abused... . My exUBPDgf.

The person that is present now... . is the sum after effects of all of that.

That is the person that put me in the hell i am in now.

I cant help but to think what if she didnt have BPD.

Unhealthy to think that?... . Sure. I get that too.

I am not in a good place right now.

[Learning_curve74]

The woman I'm in love with makes beautiful promises to me. But BPD breaks all of them.

I think it is a mistake to state it in the manner above. I actually feel that it should read:

BPD makes the woman I'm in love with to make beautiful promises to me. But BPD also makes her break all of them.

To say that the wonderful things she did are the "real" her is denial that BPD also shaped the positive behaviors and not just the negative ones. I do not believe BPD is like cancer. If you simply removed all the cancer cells from somebody who is afflicted with cancer, then they would be the perfectly happy and well person they were before they had cancer. If you tried to remove the BPD from somebody, I think you would also remove both the extreme positive "loving" behaviors that caused us to become enmeshed in the relationship as well as the extreme negative "hating" behaviors that pushed apart the relationship.

Simply put, BPD also caused our partners to exhibit the extremely loving caring behaviors.

This is not to say that nons cannot be extremely loving and caring, only that BPD caused our pwBPD to be extremely loving and caring (during the times they were).

Would the senior members chime in? I would be interested in what some of them think. (thank you Clearmind for already replying!)

[Bananas]

I was thinking, and I believe a lot of you feel the same, that without BPD, we (BPDex and I) would be in a loving and healthy relationship together because she would be that nice loving person I fell for initially.

I believe much of that nice loving person we all fell for was them mirroring us because of their lack of self.  So ask yourself, who would they really be if you took BPD away?  They would be different. 

[musicfan42]

I don't think of BPD as a mental illness but rather as a character flaw-similar to someone being an addict of some kind.

[Aussie0zborn]

I believe much of that nice loving person we all fell for was them mirroring us because of their lack of self.  So ask yourself, who would they really be if you took BPD away?  They would be different. 

Totally agree. Initially, mine would say, "you're not the sort of guy I would normally be attracted to". I never worked out what sort of guys she is physically attracted to even after seeing photos of an ex as I tore them up and disposed of them and meeting the two ex-husbands.  Eventually, I told her about my ex-wife where men walking down the street would see her and walk into poles or fall off the footpath. She never said it again but I worked out the type of guy she goes for is one with a male organ and a willingness to give her what she thinks will make her happy. So chances are that without the BPD they wouldn't necessarily have chosen us.

[Notthesame64]

Problem is, this BPD thing -- it makes her keep telling me "can't you see? this is the person who I am. this is the real me! If you could only understand how much I truly love you. I love you. I really, really love you very, very much. You just don't know." But then she behaves like someone completely different. There's this other person, who's impatient, judgmental and self-centered. Thoughtless. Insulting. Disrespectful of my time and my friends. Uninterested in anyone else's needs or priorities.

My son pointed this out to me and makes perfect sense.

thats because they can't understand anything that's outside of them

[Emelie Emelie]

What I realized is that if he hadn't had BPD he would have been happily married a long time ago and I would have never met him.  Right now I really wish that had been the case.  Just when I think I'm starting to do okay something else happens and I right back where I started.  I hate this.