can they lie about everything but sex?

[Before you can make things better, you have to stop making them worse...]

I am on a four month-semi-negotiated separation from my ex-uBPD gf.

It all came to a head as we were trying to patch things up from our last split.  She completely devalued me, I blasted her with an email. She went out and had a one night stand. I asked her for space, saying lets re-evaluate in a few months if you want to get your life together. We emailed back and forth and eventually she tried to call but i had blocked her number.

When she found out I had blocked her, she confessed to the affair, blamed me, said it wasnt cheating (I guess it wasn't).  I told her I was done. That was all I couldn't handle.

She begged for one chance, said she would do anything to make it right.  Bought me a plane ticket to come visit her so she could apologize in person and explain everything.

When I got out there, she had deleted everything from her phone.  Eventually found out she had been bad talking me behind my back because she was upset.  She was telling her friends how excited she was to be single and going out of the country etc. etc.  Dropped the bomb on me that she was going to Ibiza and Rome for a 2 week vacation.

I was just like, HOW THE AFDADFSASFAFS AM I SUPPOSED TO TRUST YOU NOW TO GO PARTY WITH YOUR FRIENDS?

Eventually, I asked her when the messages of excitement stopped, she claimed not to remember, then said it was definitely after we started talking again. She still wouldn't prove it to me and she hadn't told her friends we were talking, claiming it was too sensitive of an issue (we've had some heavy blow-outs).

Finally, it became, "This is the truth... . five minutes pass... . ok, this is the real truth... . five more minutes... . ok, this is the whole truth" I got fed up and just left.  I blocked her phone number again, but somehow, miracle or not, she got a call through to me a few days later. 

She claimed to have seen the light and realized she had many problems from her past causing fights in the relationship.  She actually took responsibility for most everything.

She asked me for one chance when she gets back to prove to me she is trustworthy.  I said OK. She wrote me a four page letter in the same vein, proclaiming her undying love, etc. etc. I'm the only one she wants.  She doesn't want another man. She said it about 10 times.

She has lied to me a lot about drug use and various things, all under the guise of not wanting to hurt me.  I understand that coming from her perspective, but literally everything she's told me when the truth finally comes out, I process it and I'm generally pretty ok.  If she wants to take a chance of dying on drugs, go ahead.  its her life.

We didn't explicitly discuss it at that moment, but I told her before, I could not be the guy waiting for her while she goes and sleeps around Europe.

We had previously had a conversation where I told her that if we're not together I can't talk to her.  I can't just be her friend.  She said that was basically driving her into the arms of another man.  She also said she didn't care if i slept with other people while we weren't together, but upon further asking she said that wasn't true, and she really would care. (I think that's a remnant of her abusive boyfriends and abandonment issue)

I guess my question is, what do you guys think are the chances she follows through and doesn't sleep with anyone on this trip?  If I am truly what she wants, the only one she wants, as she said, how do i interpret that through BPD eyes?  She's done this before, where I state a need or boundary and she gets upset about it, and later comes back and declares it as her own and follows through.  She's even told me about that.  She said she likes to come up with things on her own, rather than me ask for them.

My hope of all hopes (not likely) is that she'll come back and say, I didnt sleep with any other men because I love you and I really do want another chance.

Is that completely insane to me to think of someone with BPD would be able to have that thought process?

[PhoenixRising15]

I am on a four month-semi-negotiated separation from my ex-uBPD gf.

It all came to a head as we were trying to patch things up from our last split.  She completely devalued me, I blasted her with an email. She went out and had a one night stand. I asked her for space, saying lets re-evaluate in a few months if you want to get your life together. We emailed back and forth and eventually she tried to call but i had blocked her number.

When she found out I had blocked her, she confessed to the affair, blamed me, said it wasnt cheating (I guess it wasn't).  I told her I was done. That was all I couldn't handle.

She begged for one chance, said she would do anything to make it right.  Bought me a plane ticket to come visit her so she could apologize in person and explain everything.

When I got out there, she had deleted everything from her phone.  Eventually found out she had been bad talking me behind my back because she was upset.  She was telling her friends how excited she was to be single and going out of the country etc. etc.  Dropped the bomb on me that she was going to Ibiza and Rome for a 2 week vacation.

I was just like, HOW THE AFDADFSASFAFS AM I SUPPOSED TO TRUST YOU NOW TO GO PARTY WITH YOUR FRIENDS?

Eventually, I asked her when the messages of excitement stopped, she claimed not to remember, then said it was definitely after we started talking again. She still wouldn't prove it to me and she hadn't told her friends we were talking, claiming it was too sensitive of an issue (we've had some heavy blow-outs).

Finally, it became, "This is the truth... . five minutes pass... . ok, this is the real truth... . five more minutes... . ok, this is the whole truth" I got fed up and just left.  I blocked her phone number again, but somehow, miracle or not, she got a call through to me a few days later. 

She claimed to have seen the light and realized she had many problems from her past causing fights in the relationship.  She actually took responsibility for most everything.

She asked me for one chance when she gets back to prove to me she is trustworthy.  I said OK. She wrote me a four page letter in the same vein, proclaiming her undying love, etc. etc. I'm the only one she wants.  She doesn't want another man. She said it about 10 times.

She has lied to me a lot about drug use and various things, all under the guise of not wanting to hurt me.  I understand that coming from her perspective, but literally everything she's told me when the truth finally comes out, I process it and I'm generally pretty ok.  If she wants to take a chance of dying on drugs, go ahead.  its her life.

We didn't explicitly discuss it at that moment, but I told her before, I could not be the guy waiting for her while she goes and sleeps around Europe.

We had previously had a conversation where I told her that if we're not together I can't talk to her.  I can't just be her friend.  She said that was basically driving her into the arms of another man.  She also said she didn't care if i slept with other people while we weren't together, but upon further asking she said that wasn't true, and she really would care. (I think that's a remnant of her abusive boyfriends and abandonment issue)

I guess my question is, what do you guys think are the chances she follows through and doesn't sleep with anyone on this trip?  If I am truly what she wants, the only one she wants, as she said, how do i interpret that through BPD eyes?  She's done this before, where I state a need or boundary and she gets upset about it, and later comes back and declares it as her own and follows through.  She's even told me about that.  She said she likes to come up with things on her own, rather than me ask for them.

My hope of all hopes (not likely) is that she'll come back and say, I didnt sleep with any other men because I love you and I really do want another chance.

Is that completely insane to me to think of someone with BPD would be able to have that thought process?

[Clearmind]

QF, what are your thoughts? What do you believe?

Trust and respect are the cornerstone of any relationship. She is showing you who she is - good, bad and indifferent - we need to take note of the actions not the words. Do you trust her more importantly?

[Scout99]

I guess my question is, what do you guys think are the chances she follows through and doesn't sleep with anyone on this trip?  If I am truly what she wants, the only one she wants, as she said, how do i interpret that through BPD eyes?  She's done this before, where I state a need or boundary and she gets upset about it, and later comes back and declares it as her own and follows through.  She's even told me about that.  She said she likes to come up with things on her own, rather than me ask for them.

My hope of all hopes (not likely) is that she'll come back and say, I didnt sleep with any other men because I love you and I really do want another chance.

Is that completely insane to me to think of someone with BPD would be able to have that thought process?

I don't think anyone is an idiot for harboring hope... .

Usually our love is real, at least to some degree, and love does always hope... .

What I do think however is that you have to be realistic when it comes to one thing. And that is the fact that she has borderline personality disorder. And as the name suggests it is a disorder that affects the personality, that is it to a large degree defines her personality. She is also not undergoing any treatment and she has a developed and serious drug addiction which complicates things further since that affects her mind too... .

What this means is that even if she truly loves you and wants to be with you, your love for her is still not a cure, even if perhaps both of you wants and hopes it to be... . We cannot love the disorder out of our BPD loved ones. And that is a fact... .

Knowing that means you if you are going to be her partner is going to have to find in you radical acceptance of her disorder and with that comes also the dysregulation, the perhaps rage or silent treatments, the break up make up cycles the occasional lying, perhaps flirting and/or cheating with other men and the drug abuse... .

People with BPD are not all the same, there are differences in severity of the disorder, differences in learned coping strategies, surviving strategies and differences in how and what they use to flea from pain or find ways to soothe themselves, since they do have difficulties in self soothing the way people without the disorder does... .

But whatever strategies or behavioral patterns they use, breaking such patterns without seriously working with therapy and treatment is extremely hard... .

I mean most people have a hard time even keeping a diet or quitting smoking. So imagine how hard it must be for a person with a personality disorder to break a habit that to them has been the only ways they know how to deal with all the turmoil going on in their minds... .

Sustaining feelings and keeping a stable mood is extremely difficult for all of them and that makes long term relationships a challenge always for both parties... .

I am not saying it can't work, there are many examples on this board where it does! But I can say one thing and that is even for the couples that do find ways to make it work it is hard for the non partner, and means for them having to finds peace in making a lot of sacrifices and compromise at least some of the things they may have initially wished for in a relationship.

The term radical acceptance means you can not really go into the relationship with the expectation of your partner to change... . But find a way for you to be able to stay healthy and sane in a relationship that won't follow normal perceptions of what a relationship should be... .

The most important thing for you to ask yourself at this time is what you really want a relationship to be about in order for it to be something you can thrive in and feel good about? And if you can love her fully for who she is, and not just for who you want her to be, or when she is acting in a to you "normal" way... . ?

If this connection that you feel you have can make up for the (negative) things that also come with her disorder?

Sometimes we also have to ask ourselves, (I know I did), what it is in us that makes us drawn more to connection and or passion as opposed to trust, commitment, balance and safety in a relationship? The problem lies not always solely in them and/or in their disorder. But lies sometimes also in us, if we have a pattern of choosing partners who create more chaos than peace in our lives... .

It seems to me that trust is important to you and that cheating is something you would have a hard time with accepting as a part of a relationship... ? Realistically the chances of her completely stopping that behavior by herself and just because she wants to be with you are very slim... . Those behaviors seem from what you write to be an ingrained part of her coping strategies stemming from her disorder. And for her to just quit that will be extremely hard for her... . Without any form of treatment, I'd say nearly impossible... . And even if that doesn't mean she doesn't love you, it would still be hard for you to accept such behavior, is it not?

Did you look at the link on healthy relationships I posted in your other thread? It contains a sort of quiz too, that you can use to check up on what things are important to you in a r/s... . It might be of some help sorting that out?

The Characteristics of Healthy Relationships


Best Wishes

Scout99

[PhoenixRising15]

I do, somehow, in a perverted sense trust her.  I say it that way because I feel like I am betraying myself to trust after all these times shes broken it, but if there is one thing i can count on its her selfishness.  She always acts in her own best interest, even when her words and actions don't line up.

After this last affair, she was sullen about it.  She told me it's the first sexual encounter she's regretted in her life because she didn't do it for herself, she did it to feel better.  I think that was actually a positive.  She learned for herself that it wouldn't make her feel better.  That the emotional connection around intimacy was what she was feeling a lack of.

Afterwards, I supported and empathized with her while telling her the truth of my feelings around cheating/sex during our "breakup". 

She came to me and told me she had realized that most of our problems come from her own inner turmoil.  That wasn't something I've ever said.  I on the contrary have almost always validated her viewpoint and her feelings, which I think freaked her out.  She even said so in our last communication... . that she was sorry it took so long for her to understand that i do love and accept her for who she is given she provides honesty, that she is learning it more and more each day.

So I think she can make the choice to not sleep with other men.  And even if she doesn't I'm starting to become ok with it, not condone it, but know that its not about me, and I don't have to get back into a relationship with her if i don't want.

I like her because she says i inspire her to improve herself, and i feel the same way about her.  i want to challenge my views of sexuality, that i don't "own her body" even if we are in a relationship.  As she said to me, its a gift that she gives me, and i her. So in a way, I do think we've got a chance. 

it will require compromise and a lot of understanding on both of our parts, but i have to give credit where it's due.  She was really trying to "fix" herself as we broke apart, and it was a pity to watch her struggle.  She asked me for time and space to work on herself, and I said ok.  It takes a lot of courage for someone with abandonment issues to ask for time and space.  she said so herself.  she said she is terrified that i will leave or find someone else, but she's tired of trying to escape this dire feeling of being alone. 

I find solace in that.  Perhaps my time with her is over.  My therapist asked me today, "do you really think she's going to come back and call you in 4 months?"  I'm not sure. Perhaps I'm delusional.  My therapist seems to believe she's not going to remember.  I think she will, as she has told me she's taking a comfort object that i gave her on her trip.  Maybe manipulation, but the thought helps me sleep easier.

What i do know, is that i witnessed her grow some as a person and reach out to trust me.  As painful as the thought is, that I may not be the benificiary of that growth, I'm happy for her because I do love her.  I want good things for her, and for myself.  I leave the rest up to the universe.

[Bioman]

QF, what are your thoughts? What do you believe?

Trust and respect are the cornerstone of any relationship. She is showing you who she is - good, bad and indifferent - we need to take note of the actions not the words. Do you trust her more importantly?

this is very good advice

[GreenMango]

Why does this not matter in comparison to sex or infidelity?

. If she wants to take a chance of dying on drugs, go ahead. its her life.

[confusedhubby]

Hi QuestionFaith.

Thanks for sharing.

I am orry to hear of the hurt that your pwBPD has put you through.

I think that she may really "love" you in the sense that she fears your abandonment and wants you to be there for her. Unfortunately however the patterns of behavior she is displaying with infidelity are not likely to change. A pwBPD cheats based on patterns of behavior that usually evolve around lo self-esteem, need for acceptance, boredom and impulsive behavior. When you add drugs and alcohol into the mix its like takings these patterns of bahavior and putting them into hyper-drive. The only way it will stop is by her getting treatment for BOTH the BPD and any drinking / drug issues. If she were to do that there is a hope. Otherwise she is self-destructing ad it's a long road down.