guess it does get better...

[VIDEO: "What is parental alienation?"]

Sometimes I am frustrated that improvement isn't immediate and overnight. But sometimes, when I actually see it, I'm relieved. It's worth the effort.

Here's an example I want to document for myself--and share with others--so I don't forget... .

My exH and I still work together. We had to go on a short (overnight) business trip together a few days ago. We drove the 600 miles to our destination together. These trips used to really, really suck--the proverbial "no-win situation". If I tried to engage ex in conversation he wallowed in ignoring me, then afterwards would accuse me of "harassing" him. If I stayed quiet and minded my own business, he accused me of being angry at and punishing him. I believed I was at his mercy.

This time, I brought a book along for the ride. As usual (he's bipolar and very, very rigid--it is taking him a long time to adjust to the divorce; he prefers [insists on, actually] familiar patterns, even if they suck), he got really nervous that I was "angry". Big improvement for me--not my problem. I didn't need to defend myself OR "fix" it. I just read my book.

After a long time (with him squirming, to get the pattern reinstated), he made some clumsy efforts to engage me in conversation. There was a time when I would have fallen for this, and believed he wanted to talk. But after 18 years, I knew that he wanted me to pick up the conversation ball so he could become a martyr at "having" to listen to me. Finally I said "this is a pretty good set of stories I'm reading--would you like me to read out loud?" (it was "Fire and Ashes" by John McLean--about "what went wrong" on the fire line of a few different large forest fires). He says sure--what's your other book called? I said "Malignant self love--narcissism revisited. Do you want to hear that one instead?" (Hahaha--exH is diagnosed bipolar with ASPD and NPD) Uh, no, he says--let's hear about the fires. So I read out loud all the way to our destination. Regular pattern successfully diverted.

At the hotel, we were leaving to go get dinner and he says "we used to stay at this hotel sometimes when we were married". My response? "Yep". Big improvement for me. This was a blatant invitation to return to "the regular pattern". I didn't bite or even struggle. At all.  

At breakfast the next morning, he told me "when I get my inheritance in October, I need to get some dental work done." OK, this one took me off guard. Brief back story--He's buying my property from me and I moved out and bought a house. He's making small payments now, but will give me the balance in October when he gets this inheritance. When we struck this deal several months ago, he told me he was concerned that I was going to "fritter away" the money on "impractical" stuff like the serious dental work I need to get done. At the time, I said "what I spend the money on is none of your business". It didn't even actually occur to me that he was saying that me taking care of myself was "frittering away" money and "impractical".

So when he said he was going to spend some of this inheritance money on dental work, I brought that up briefly, what he told me before, and said "so taking care of yourself is good." and he said "yeah" and then I said "but me taking care of myself is wasteful" and he said "yeah". (No REALLY! He said "yeah"! Not sarcastically, not snidely, just blandly, matter-of-fact like).

Big improvement for me--I didn't pursue this conversation any further at all. I just thought to myself--"I made the right choice divorcing this man." And later I thought to myself (without saying anything out loud) "my words haven't matched my actions. I have yelled and hollered about being treated with respect, but this man lives in the subconscious world. Along the line, I have obviously signaled to him that in spite of all my blathering about the respect I want to be treated with, I have non-verbally communicated that I DON'T deserve respect and have no self worth. And he is simply acting accordingly."

We then went and did the things we went on the trip for, and came back home. It was not an anxiety filled trip for me, or uncomfortable or difficult.

[doubleAries]

Sometimes I am frustrated that improvement isn't immediate and overnight. But sometimes, when I actually see it, I'm relieved. It's worth the effort.

Here's an example I want to document for myself--and share with others--so I don't forget... .

My exH and I still work together. We had to go on a short (overnight) business trip together a few days ago. We drove the 600 miles to our destination together. These trips used to really, really suck--the proverbial "no-win situation". If I tried to engage ex in conversation he wallowed in ignoring me, then afterwards would accuse me of "harassing" him. If I stayed quiet and minded my own business, he accused me of being angry at and punishing him. I believed I was at his mercy.

This time, I brought a book along for the ride. As usual (he's bipolar and very, very rigid--it is taking him a long time to adjust to the divorce; he prefers [insists on, actually] familiar patterns, even if they suck), he got really nervous that I was "angry". Big improvement for me--not my problem. I didn't need to defend myself OR "fix" it. I just read my book.

After a long time (with him squirming, to get the pattern reinstated), he made some clumsy efforts to engage me in conversation. There was a time when I would have fallen for this, and believed he wanted to talk. But after 18 years, I knew that he wanted me to pick up the conversation ball so he could become a martyr at "having" to listen to me. Finally I said "this is a pretty good set of stories I'm reading--would you like me to read out loud?" (it was "Fire and Ashes" by John McLean--about "what went wrong" on the fire line of a few different large forest fires). He says sure--what's your other book called? I said "Malignant self love--narcissism revisited. Do you want to hear that one instead?" (Hahaha--exH is diagnosed bipolar with ASPD and NPD) Uh, no, he says--let's hear about the fires. So I read out loud all the way to our destination. Regular pattern successfully diverted.

At the hotel, we were leaving to go get dinner and he says "we used to stay at this hotel sometimes when we were married". My response? "Yep". Big improvement for me. This was a blatant invitation to return to "the regular pattern". I didn't bite or even struggle. At all.  

At breakfast the next morning, he told me "when I get my inheritance in October, I need to get some dental work done." OK, this one took me off guard. Brief back story--He's buying my property from me and I moved out and bought a house. He's making small payments now, but will give me the balance in October when he gets this inheritance. When we struck this deal several months ago, he told me he was concerned that I was going to "fritter away" the money on "impractical" stuff like the serious dental work I need to get done. At the time, I said "what I spend the money on is none of your business". It didn't even actually occur to me that he was saying that me taking care of myself was "frittering away" money and "impractical".

So when he said he was going to spend some of this inheritance money on dental work, I brought that up briefly, what he told me before, and said "so taking care of yourself is good." and he said "yeah" and then I said "but me taking care of myself is wasteful" and he said "yeah". (No REALLY! He said "yeah"! Not sarcastically, not snidely, just blandly, matter-of-fact like).

Big improvement for me--I didn't pursue this conversation any further at all. I just thought to myself--"I made the right choice divorcing this man." And later I thought to myself (without saying anything out loud) "my words haven't matched my actions. I have yelled and hollered about being treated with respect, but this man lives in the subconscious world. Along the line, I have obviously signaled to him that in spite of all my blathering about the respect I want to be treated with, I have non-verbally communicated that I DON'T deserve respect and have no self worth. And he is simply acting accordingly."

We then went and did the things we went on the trip for, and came back home. It was not an anxiety filled trip for me, or uncomfortable or difficult.

[Blazing Star]

Wow doubleAries! It sure sounds like it has gotten better! The level of consciousness and self-compassion that you approached this with is awesome. Thank you for documenting and sharing. I hope you feel proud of yourself and will do something to celebrate how far you have come.

Love Blazing Star

[clairedair]

Hi doublearies,

thanks for sharing this - am impressed by the way you handled this.    

The thought of a 600-mile trip together was bringing me out in a cold sweat just imagining it!   I

When I am able not to engage (can't be NC as exH and I have kids together) I am relieved that it doesn't drag on but there's a part of me that's left feeling annoyed with myself for not telling him how I really feel/felt in past; I feel that 'he got away with it' again.  It's like your example about the dental care - familiar to me - I can deal with it in a calm way but afterwards can be in a state about what it says about his feelings (or lack of them) for me.  I ruminate over what he said and then remember the 1000 other times he said something similar and off I go... .

However, I think you hit the nail on the head with the following:

And later I thought to myself (without saying anything out loud) "my words haven't matched my actions. I have yelled and hollered about being treated with respect, but this man lives in the subconscious world. Along the line, I have obviously signaled to him that in spite of all my blathering about the respect I want to be treated with, I have non-verbally communicated that I DON'T deserve respect and have no self worth. And he is simply acting accordingly."

Just before he left last time, I wrote him a letter (unsent) that said something along the lines of 'you don't seem to love, trust or respect yourself so how can I expect you to do these things for me'.  I am trying to turn that around and ask myself the question - 'if I did love, trust and respect myself, why did I stay for so long and make so many attempts to continue a relationship that was harming me?'

I'm struggling at the moment because I need to deal with a money issue.  I would just rather leave it than get into conversation with him.  Any time I've tried to raise this before, I get told how useless I am with money, would spend the money for kids on me etc and I back off.  Which helps my emotional state but has had a very negative impact on my finances!  However, I've allowed a pattern to develop by not tackling this in past and so have 'signalled' that it's OK for him to deviate from the agreement we have (to my detriment).

Loved the bit about the narcissim book - had a good chuckle imagining the scene!

[Surnia]

Wow, doubleAries,

Great improvement.

Riding in the same car for 600 miles is a challenge.

He says sure--what's your other book called? I said "Malignant self love--narcissism revisited. Do you want to hear that one instead?" (Hahaha--exH is diagnosed bipolar with ASPD and NPD) Uh, no, he says--let's hear about the fires.

No, seriouly,  for you!

[heartandwhole]

Wonderful, doubleAries!  I'm so impressed with how you handled this, it's a great example for all of us.  Like Blazing Star said, I hope you are proud of yourself and will do something special just for you.  This is great progress.

[Cumulus]

I love it DA. Kudos for getting in the car for a six hundred mile trip together, I have to say that just gives me the cold willies thinking of doing that. 

What I did like was your segue to the understanding of the implied disrespect that taking care of yourself was wasteful. I could really relate to that and reading your post made me aware of the many instances I too felt those barbs. For me to even sit and read was often met with the feeling that I was wasting time and should be up and doing. Isn't life wonderful now? No more need to justify, manage, put a good face on or constantly be doing. I am so happy now just to be. Wishing you continued joy and peace. You go girl!  Cumulus.

[Rose Tiger]

Great insights D.A.  I was one to complain about the respect but subconsiously giving a different message. Oy!

[doubleAries]

What is really the biggest relief to me is that I didn't have to "force" myself to do anything. It wasn't just about my actions or reactions. It was about the internal motivations. I didn't act a certain way and then ruminate. It wasn't an act. It was real.

The beginning of the big changes for me started when I stopped seething over how I've been treated (complete with all the usual--the "next time I'm going to... . " stuff, obviously counting on a "next time" and started looking at myself. Why am I attracted to these kinds  of people? There's a bulls eye on my forehead--I'm not yet sure how it got there, but I have to get it off.

Where I got stuck was not understanding that behavior patterns can become as automatic as walking or riding a bike or any other number of things we had to learn at some point but have practiced so much they are now automatic and we don't even think about them, we just do them.

Up until pretty recently, there is no way I could have gotten through a trip like this without JADEing. I totally mistook JADE for boundary enforcement. But they are NOT the same.

I think the big difference here was knowing (versus thinking) that what he thinks of me doesn't matter. And not just because we are now divorced. But because I'm becoming more secure in myself--not needing someone else's reflection that I'm good or valuable or worthy.

I used to believe (and probably still do in some areas which I will root out) that if I didn't defend (JADE) myself against these kind of snide comments (even though they weren't actually snide--just "matter of fact", then I was allowing myself to be walked on. But this time, not only did I just easily blow it off, I used it to look at myself and the message I sent for 18 years. I defended myself for 18 years--that in itself was a message: I'm giving credence to your low opinion of me by explaining and defending and not leaving.

I didn't consciously believe I was unworthy, undeserving (some people do). But obviously I did believe this unconsciously. Not a surprise--I had a pretty horrific childhood. But I'm changing the old unhealthy automatic patterns into some new more healthy automatic patterns. All the therapy and effort is worth it and paying off. 

[clairedair]

I used to believe (and probably still do in some areas which I will root out) that if I didn't defend (JADE) myself against these kind of snide comments (even though they weren't actually snide--just "matter of fact", then I was allowing myself to be walked on. But this time, not only did I just easily blow it off, I used it to look at myself and the message I sent for 18 years. I defended myself for 18 years--that in itself was a message: I'm giving credence to your low opinion of me by explaining and defending and not leaving.

This is really interesting - thanks for your insight.

Claire