Confused/Trying to figure out this message

[Morrison11]

After a few weeks of NC, I checked my e-mail this morning and found an e-mail from her that she sent last night.  I'm not sure of the real intent, so I was hoping for feedback from any of you that may have experienced something similar.

She e-mailed me and started out by saying she wanted to let me know she is "okay", in the sense that she is not self-harming, taking drugs, abusing alcohol, etc.  (She never used drugs or alcohol like that, only during our breakups when she felt abandoned).  Then, she said she wanted me to know that I am the love of her life, because she can't go through life without knowing that she let me know that.  She apologized for the way she treated me in the past, and the things she put me through, especially at the end. 

I want to take this for face value and believe what she has said, but I also don't want this to be an attempt to recycle me and just treat me the same way if we try again in the future.  I know that generally pwBPD don't feel ashamed or apologize for raging and painting you black, so I am confused by this e-mail.  I also know that every case is different, so maybe I shouldn't generalize and question her motives with the break of NC.  I dont know, I'm just really confused.

Right now, I am feeling good about NC, because I want her to be helping herself and focusing on doing whats best for her and her mental wellness, which she doesn't prioritize when we are in a relationship.  She lets the relationship consume her.  I do deep down love this girl very much.  I do appreciate the e-mail because it gave me peace of mind about how she is doing, instead of sitting here every minute wondering.

Open to feedback.

[simplyasiam]

be carefull, ive had the same email a couple times ovwr the last 6 years. ive felt the way you do now. my ex never stuck with getting help and the r/s end bad again i got hurt again.

make sure you are in a good place with yourself are strong and not going to lie yourself if you do start to get back with her.

[papawapa]

Be a duck. Let the water roll off your back. Delete the email and don't respond. It is a fishing expedition. She is looking to see if you are still on the line.

[LoneWolf768]

be carefull, ive had the same email a couple times over the last 6 years. ive felt the way you do now. my ex never stuck with getting help and the r/s end bad again i got hurt again.

make sure you are in a good place with yourself are strong and not going to lie yourself if you do start to get back with her.

That's a good way of looking at that sort of email, simply. You want to believe it's a sincere type of contact and they're telling you what you want to hear to lure you back in and then start the mind games again. And that hurts the second go around because you let your guard down and they blatantly lied again.

Be a duck. Let the water roll off your back. Delete the email and don't respond. It is a fishing expedition. She is looking to see if you are still on the line.

I agree with papawapa. The sooner you respond, the better she'll feel, too. She'll then know you'll ask her 'How High?' when she asks you to jump. My ex did that BS to me too,  asking if I was okay after 2 weeks of NC. I honestly thought she was being sincere in wanting to know how I was feeling. Then the info I begin getting let me know it's just a way for you to ask them how they're feeling. Whatever they ask you, it's what they want you to ask. It's NEVER about your feelings. It's ALWAYS about theirs.

Like I put on a post I wrote yesterday:  She didn't care about your feelings then; why should she care now?

[seeking balance]

She e-mailed me and started out by saying she wanted to let me know she is "okay", in the sense that she is not self-harming, taking drugs, abusing alcohol, etc.  (She never used drugs or alcohol like that, only during our breakups when she felt abandoned). 

about her

Then, she said she wanted me to know that I am the love of her life, because she can't go through life without knowing that she let me know that.  She apologized for the way she treated me in the past, and the things she put me through, especially at the end. 

about her

I want to take this for face value and believe what she has said,

it is true at face value in the moment she wrote it - no more or no less

but I also don't want this to be an attempt to recycle me

recycling takes 2 people - she needed some emotional fix and emailed you... . that is all.

and just treat me the same way if we try again in the future. 

you writing this makes me think you want a relationship with her in the future - this would by YOU recycling, not her.  It's ok, just own where you are in the process.

She will treat you the way she did in the past unless you BOTH have significant therapy to change the dynamic... . sorry if that is harsh sounding, but thinking either of you is capable of not falling into the same patterns without significant behavioral changes would be not fully grasping the serious nature of the dysfunctional dynamic of the BPD relationship - to be clear, both parties have to change.

I know that generally pwBPD don't feel ashamed or apologize for raging and painting you black, so I am confused by this e-mail. 

actually, pwBPD feel  intense shame

apologizing takes a strong sense of self, based on the BPD criteria, pwBPD tend to have an unstable sense of self, thus apologizing is a means to an end, not really the same as if you or I were to apologize.

I also know that every case is different, so maybe I shouldn't generalize and question her motives with the break of NC.  I dont know, I'm just really confused.

Her motives are she wanted an emotional fix.

NC on your side should be for you to detach emotionally/

Right now, I am feeling good about NC, because I want her to be helping herself and focusing on doing whats best for her and her mental wellness, which she doesn't prioritize when we are in a relationship. 

well, are you prioritizing your own mental health?

What are you doing for you?

I do deep down love this girl very much.  I do appreciate the e-mail because it gave me peace of mind about how she is doing, instead of sitting here every minute wondering.

Open to feedback.

Appreciating the info in the email is great  - no harm in that.

Most of us here really love our pwBPD - however, maintaining a relationship that is functional is tough.  The staying board proves that.

Is your ex in DBT?  Have you studied DBT and apply it to your emotions too?  Without both parties really really changing, these relationships tend to hurt each other over and over and that isn't really what I tend to think of as love.

The message was face value - she felt in that moment - if she is BPD, she likely does not have the skills to do more than write the words.

I realize this is direct, when I first came here - it was the direct responses that got my attention to focus on me rather than saving my ex.

Take care of you.

Peace,

SB

[Ironmanrises]

Do not reply.

You will only be hurt in the inevitable outcome.

Stay NC.

Her feelings will reverse in x time.

Then you will be hurting far worse then now.

Round and round.

[Morrison11]

Thank you all for your input.  This is the first time I am really focused on not recycling and keeping NC.  I haven't responded. 

Seeking-

Thank you especially for your lengthy response, it was really helpful in my pondering.  I wanted to clarify:  it's not that I want a relationship in the future with her again, its just that I like to not burn bridges.  Its always been my style, and its difficult because this is the first time I really HAVE to.  I'd like to think that one day, whether its ten, or fifty years from now, if she and I cross paths, and are in a healthy place, that our love could flow naturally.  I know this is probably just wishful thinking/me missing the heck out of her.

For me, right now, I have started counseling.  I had some bad experiences in the past with counseling, so this was a huge step for me.  To be honest, CBT doesn't compare to the support I get on this website.  I consider it my real counseling, .

My ex WAS in DBT in the beginning of our relationship.  She did so well with it.  I watched her use her skills all of the time.  I actually attended sessions with her, and got a lot out of it for myself.  I've been very familiar with DTB and this diagnosis way long before I even met my ex.  In fact, I was well aware she was struggling with the traits associated with BPD before she even confided in me.  She dropped out of DBT because at some point she felt that she learned all she needed to know.  I, of course, wanted her to stick with it, but I knew that saying that would create rage and a sense of non-support.  So she dropped it, and eventually dropped me.

Although I am well aware that I can't "save" her, I hate being on the long list of people she feels abandoned by.  While we were together, all I wanted was to be at her side during the good times and bad times, the mood swings, the irrational fears, the imagined abandonment from her family and friends, the false accusations, etc.  I know that she needs to discover herself individually, and find her way back to DBT to do this.  It just pains me to be on the outside.  As most nons of exes with BPD, I just wish that she could've done all of this stuff, self-discovery and soothing, before she abandoned ME and painted me the darkest shades of black. 

Its all really heart wrenching.

[Learning_curve74]

Although I am well aware that I can't "save" her, I hate being on the long list of people she feels abandoned by.  While we were together, all I wanted was to be at her side during the good times and bad times, the mood swings, the irrational fears, the imagined abandonment from her family and friends, the false accusations, etc.  I know that she needs to discover herself individually, and find her way back to DBT to do this.  It just pains me to be on the outside.  As most nons of exes with BPD, I just wish that she could've done all of this stuff, self-discovery and soothing, before she abandoned ME and painted me the darkest shades of black. 

Its all really heart wrenching.

So many of us here have very similar stories. All very heartbreaking. 

I do not believe that most nons have the ability to maintain a relationship with a pwBPD unless they are able to maintain a very strong stance of nonattachment. My guess is it's a lot like a parent who loves a child that is a drug addict but lets them have plenty of space to fail or hurt themselves.

[seeking balance]

For me, right now, I have started counseling.  I had some bad experiences in the past with counseling, so this was a huge step for me.  To be honest, CBT doesn't compare to the support I get on this website.  I consider it my real counseling, .

glad you are trying it again - as you know, the T is really important.

My ex WAS in DBT in the beginning of our relationship.  She did so well with it.  I watched her use her skills all of the time.  I actually attended sessions with her, and got a lot out of it for myself.  I've been very familiar with DTB and this diagnosis way long before I even met my ex.  In fact, I was well aware she was struggling with the traits associated with BPD before she even confided in me.  She dropped out of DBT because at some point she felt that she learned all she needed to know.  I, of course, wanted her to stick with it, but I knew that saying that would create rage and a sense of non-support.  So she dropped it, and eventually dropped me.

thank you for sharing this... . it must have been sad to watch someone stop doing the treatment that you could see helping so much. 

Although I am well aware that I can't "save" her, I hate being on the long list of people she feels abandoned by. 

I can appreciate this - honestly.

There is no win in mental illness in a relapse.  Unless the person truly accepts it is a lifetime of using the skills, as the support, there is not much we can do about it.

Take good care of you.  Thank you for sharing more details.

Peace,

SB

[eyvindr]

[Morrison11]

Thank you for all of your feedback.  All of this was very helpful, and I decided to stay with NC.

[blurry]

Morrison, I just want to chime in and back up your decision on maintaining NC, all these apologies are great but none of it includes anything about real change. I've gotten that EXACT same line of bs about 5 times now after horrific breakups in the past year, gone back to her and all the promises and apologies on her part are gone anywhere between 2 days and a week later.

Something serious has to change, and I don't mean promising not to do this or that again, I mean real change, before id go back or suggest someone else going back. I don't even know what for sure, but something, last I told my wife was that in no way shape or form will she see me ever again till she can prove 6 months of consistent th

erapy, and then there's no guarantee ill want to go back by then either.

Can't tell you how many times I've been told " I know I can't live without you", "I can't breathe without you", "I'm gonna spend the rest of my life proving to you how much I love you"... .

[Morrison11]

blurry-

Thats what makes it so damn difficult.  To get an e-mail simply to say "I want you to live life knowing that you are without a doubt the truest love of my life", is not even opening a door, it's ripping one of the hinges!  She also included all of these positive things she is doing right now, like focusing on her physical wellness, talking more to her family members which were previously very strained relationships, etc.  But she only stated she "might" try DBT again.  No definite answer there.

She also made a point to tell me that nobody on her side of the fence blames me or looks at me poorly.  It seems like she is trying to set the stage for me to run back, exactly like we did last time we recycled.  I heard all of these things then too.

I like that she is focusing on herself, and I know she has a long road of self-actualization ahead of her.  Despite all of the garbage I was put through, I love her, and I want to see her do well and be healthy.  I can only hope that somewhere along her journey she opens back up to DBT.  I know its really the only way she will be able to maintain any kind of relationship in her life, romantic or not.

Thank you for your insight, it was very reassuring that I am doing the right thing by keeping NC.

[eyvindr]

I like that she is focusing on herself, and I know she has a long road of self-actualization ahead of her.  Despite all of the garbage I was put through, I love her, and I want to see her do well and be healthy.  I can only hope that somewhere along her journey she opens back up to DBT.  I know its really the only way she will be able to maintain any kind of relationship in her life, romantic or not.

Really like and admire your attitude, Morrison. I think this is something that sets those of us who love pwBPD apart from their illness-induced actions. First, we recognize that the reason they're so difficult to live with is because of the illness. Second, we wish them happiness, with or without us. I wonder sometimes how many of them would sincerely wish the same for us.

[LoneWolf768]

Really like and admire your attitude, Morrison. I think this is something that sets those of us who love pwBPD apart from their illness-induced actions. First, we recognize that the reason they're so difficult to live with is because of the illness. Second, we wish them happiness, with or without us. I wonder sometimes how many of them would sincerely wish the same for us.[/quote]
eyvindr, I'm still having an internal conflict with how to approach this very thing. Some days, I do wish I could extend the proverbial olive branch to her and we could both wish each other the best life has to offer and perhaps someday be civil... . as in "Hey. Thought I'd say Hi and see how you are. It's been a long time."  We've been in NC since May (save for her threatening me in July, which I didn't respond to) so I highly doubt a truce is going to happen.

While I don't want any ill will to come her way, I can honestly say I don't think she has the capacity to wish me well and mean it. Too much of things she said to me - like the last sentence of your paragraph - were meant for me to say them back to her. As far as I know, my name and face or any sort of memories, good and/or bad, cross her mind. Does it hurt to be forgotten after all the blaming and smearing? Yes, it does. I thought I brought something unique to her life and our relationship.

I was talking with a close lady friend the other night about loyalty. She had a falling out over money with a long time friend of hers. She said "As mad as I am that she and I aren't talking, I'd still be there for her if she needed me to be. I never betray my friends."   

I told her that's how I'd be with my ex. She understood. Other lady friends think I'm as naive as the day is long to want to be there for my ex after what happened. Still, there's a humane side to me that would rather be there for her and kick myself later than leave her somewhere or turn my back on her and wonder if she's okay. My ex doesn't know loyalty that way.

I don't believe BPD'ers know loyalty at all. They only know chaos, abandonment and abuse, which is why I'd want to be there for her.

[LoneWolf768]

Really like and admire your attitude, Morrison. I think this is something that sets those of us who love pwBPD apart from their illness-induced actions. First, we recognize that the reason they're so difficult to live with is because of the illness. Second, we wish them happiness, with or without us. I wonder sometimes how many of them would sincerely wish the same for us.

eyvindr, I'm still having an internal conflict with how to approach this very thing. Some days, I do wish I could extend the proverbial olive branch to her and we could both wish each other the best life has to offer and perhaps someday be civil... . as in "Hey. Thought I'd say Hi and see how you are. It's been a long time."  We've been in NC since May (save for her threatening me in July, which I didn't respond to) so I highly doubt a truce is going to happen.

While I don't want any ill will to come her way, I can honestly say I don't think she has the capacity to wish me well and mean it. Too much of things she said to me - like the last sentence of your paragraph - were meant for me to say them back to her. As far as I know, my name and face or any sort of memories, good and/or bad, cross her mind. Does it hurt to be forgotten after all the blaming and smearing? Yes, it does. I thought I brought something unique to her life and our relationship.

I was talking with a close lady friend the other night about loyalty. She had a falling out over money with a long time friend of hers. She said "As mad as I am that she and I aren't talking, I'd still be there for her if she needed me to be. I never betray my friends."   

I told her that's how I'd be with my ex. She understood. Other lady friends think I'm as naive as the day is long to want to be there for my ex after what happened. Still, there's a humane side to me that would rather be there for her and kick myself later than leave her somewhere or turn my back on her and wonder if she's okay. My ex doesn't know loyalty that way.

I don't believe BPD'ers know loyalty at all. They only know chaos, abandonment and abuse, which is why I'd want to be there for her. Am I wrong for feeling that way?

[Learning_curve74]

I don't believe BPD'ers know loyalty at all. They only know chaos, abandonment and abuse, which is why I'd want to be there for her. Am I wrong for feeling that way?

LoneWolf, I think there is a fine line between support and enabling. Some people cause their own storms and then cry about being rained on.

[LoneWolf768]

I don't believe BPD'ers know loyalty at all. They only know chaos, abandonment and abuse, which is why I'd want to be there for her. Am I wrong for feeling that way?

LoneWolf, I think there is a fine line between support and enabling. Some people cause their own storms and then cry about being rained on.

LC, do you mean it's her causing her own storm and then playing the victim i.e. being rained on and/or... .


... . If I was there for her and regretted it, it would be me causing my own storm?

Hate to split hairs here. Just making sure I'm following you. I will have to use that quote. I like it!

[coffees86]

- Right now, I am feeling good about NC, because I want her to be helping herself and focusing on doing whats best for her and her mental wellness, which she doesn't prioritize when we are in a relationship. -

Morrison; isn't the statement you're making above the most obvious? You're telling that you feel best with NC. Maybe this is the best way to go for now. Maybe not always, but just for now since it might be better for you both.

Later, when time evolved you might get in contact again, but first of all you must focus now on becoming yourself again and maintaining a healthy relationship with the person that you are. Not inflicted by the wounds that others (her or any other person) might be creating. It's up to you to decide whether or not to respond. Responding I think, when I would be in your position might just be out of fear to do the wrong thing for her. But what is right for YOU?

[Learning_curve74]

I don't believe BPD'ers know loyalty at all. They only know chaos, abandonment and abuse, which is why I'd want to be there for her. Am I wrong for feeling that way?

LoneWolf, I think there is a fine line between support and enabling. Some people cause their own storms and then cry about being rained on.

LC, do you mean it's her causing her own storm and then playing the victim i.e. being rained on and/or... .

... . If I was there for her and regretted it, it would be me causing my own storm?

Hate to split hairs here. Just making sure I'm following you. I will have to use that quote. I like it!

That's interesting LoneWolf... . I was talking about her but it could just as well be you (or me or anybody else) too. Very perceptive of you, don't you think?

[Morrison11]

Morrison; isn't the statement you're making above the most obvious? You're telling that you feel best with NC. Maybe this is the best way to go for now. Maybe not always, but just for now since it might be better for you both.

Coffee-Yes, I would agree.  NC is best for us BOTH right now.  I guess part of me just wonders if I am feeling this way solely because I know its best for her right now.  Am I being too selfles and forgetting that I have needs too?

  Typically, would I have stuck things out and worked on any issues in any other relationship? Yes.  But I am aware of her illness, and I have accepted that she needs to do her own rebuilding before we can rebuild in any way.  I don't hang on to that hope though.  I've been hurt or let down in relationships before, and had a fleeting hope of "maybe some day... ", but the difference with this relationship is that the "maybe some day" is out of my hands.  I have come to terms with the fact that no matter what, the ball will always be in her court.  It will always be if SHE is healthy enough, or if SHE is happiest enough, or if SHE feels an inevitable abdonment, or if SHE has an irrational fear that I am unfaithful, or if SHE has a dream that I am evil and believes that it is true when she wakes up.

What kind of way is that to live?  The ball shouldn't even exist in a healthy relationship.  Two people should just bounce of each other in every moment, whether it is happy or sad or scary or irrational or imagined.

This is my daily struggle.

Like learningcurve suggested, I refuse to do a rain dance and then cry about the storm cloud that unloads onto me.  Thats why NC is the only way.

[eyvindr]

What kind of way is that to live? The ball shouldn't even exist in a healthy relationship. Two people should just bounce off each other in every moment, whether it is happy or sad or scary or irrational or imagined.

Amen, brother -- well said.

I don't believe BPD'ers know loyalty at all. They only know chaos, abandonment and abuse, which is why I'd want to be there for her. Am I wrong for feeling that way?

LoneWolf, I think there is a fine line between support and enabling. Some people cause their own storms and then cry about being rained on.

LoneWolf -- absolutely not, you aren't wrong to feel that way! You care about her. You have basic human compassion, and you recognize her basic human goodness, beneath the illness, and you're selflessly responding to her plight. The problem lies in reciprocation -- because of the illness, she won't likely be capable of reciprocating in a way that we can understand. It could be symbolic, or she could just pay lip service to it, feeling it's what's expected of her, or she could respond in an attempt to secure more of your compassion. We can't know, because -- due to BPD -- it's not something freely given, sadly. Even if it is freely given, in the moment, there are likely to be strings attached at some later date.

learning_curve makes a good point. So often, with pwBPD, they do create their own chaos -- or at least make serious contributions to it -- and then they behave like petulant little children when the whole world doesn't jump in to help them out. I find it very annoying, actually. I expect adults to behave like adults, and I expect them to take personal responsibility for their behavior -- and that includes managing their emotions. When I'd talk about this with my ex, she'd always accuse me of expecting her to be perfect. Nothing could be further from the truth -- no one's perfect. That's a given. Perfectly imperfect, perhaps, as the cliche goes, but any striving for perfection in ourselves or others is a foolish and futile goal.

But it just led to more circular debating. She'd say it was an unattainable standard -- her example usually would be, well, I'm only human -- what if I mess up?

Seriously? If you mess up -- and you will, because we ALL do (first truth -- no one's perfect, remember?) --  then recognize your mistake, own it, apologize and LEARN from it. Try not to do it again. If you can't seem to do that, accept that maybe you need some help. Seek it out. Try to improve yourself.

I mean, kee-rist -- being human isn't rocket science. These kids are exasperating as heck!

[LoneWolf768]

LC, It did make that kind of sense to me that it could be for us or the BPD'ers. Thank you for seeing it that way, too!