Am I over-reacting?

[CatBlack]

I let my uBDbf move in with me a few months back on the condition that he was completely over and done with the woman he left me for (long story, told on the intro board.)  He'd bounced back and forth between us for months and I wasn't about to let him move in with me if he was going to keep jerking me around with her. He promised that he was over her, was no longer interested in her, swore up and down and back and forth that he would never contact her in any way ever again, and that he was ready to totally commit to being with me. She lives half a continent away, so I wasn't worried about him physically cheating on me, but I wanted to know that the emotional entanglement was done. He swore that it was.

Of course (as I should have known) I just found out that he messaged her last week. I haven't seen the messages and I think he's probably deleted them by now, but he claims that he just wanted closure with her, that they parted on bad terms and he wanted to apologize for his part in things so he could move on. He says that she responded very coldly and he says that now he's finally sure that it's over with her for good and he can move on.

He's told me the same thing so many times - that he's through with her, he's not interested in her anymore, that I'm the one - and each time he's managed to recycle me by convincing me that he's telling the truth. And each time it comes out eventually that he's not being truthful and he's not over her. This is the just the latest, and based on what he said about the message, the most benign, but it doesn't change the fact that he said he was over her, once again, and once again he lied. Now he says he really-truly-honestly is over her and this time it's different.

It doesn't seem different to me. It seems like exactly the same crap on a different day. He says that he made the promises he did when he moved in because I "coerced" him and it was the only way he could keep me. He doesn't seem to have any clue that there is something deeply wrong with this. I did not want to have to live with this and he lied to me to force me to live with it.

Of course, I'm the bad guy here for being angry - I'm over-reacting, I'm too suspicious, I don't care enough about his feelings or the process he's had to go through in regards to his feelings for her, if I really loved him I'd understand, I'm proving that I'm unstable and unreliable by being angry about this... . and so on. I forced him to lie to me by putting my foot down as to what I'd accept, according to him. It's always my fault.

I don't even understand why I'm "undecided" here - there's a big part of me that has very much decided that enough is enough. We had plenty of other issues before this cropped up but I was ready to work with him because he seemed to actually be committed to our relationship, and that meant a lot to me. I still love him very much. I just don't know how much more of this I can take. It never changes. I've agreed to discuss this with him with his therapist but I don't know if I can keep hanging on to this. 

I know what he is and I seem to love him anyway. I don't know what to do here. I'm pretty sure he needs to be out of my house, though.

[Validation78]

Hey Cat!

Sorry to hear the struggle and strife in your relationship. It's tough stuff, relationships with pwBPD. You know what you want and need from a partner, what is right for you. We talk a lot here about boundaries, which are rules for ourselves, based on our values and limits. You seem to have a boundary regarding lies and infidelity. That is your prerogative, and if he doesn't want to comply, that's his choice. There needs to be a consequence for his actions in order to enforce your boundaries, and that is also your prerogative. It's not anger, suspicion, manipulation or whatever he wants to project on you because he won't own up to his behavior. We teach others how to treat us and unless you impose a consequence with action, count on more undesirable behavior, without a doubt!

Best Wishes,

Val78

[Newton]

Hi CatBlack... . it's obvious from your vocabulary and syntax you are a very smart woman and you know what you want (and what you don't)... .

I want to share with you a very simple yet very insightful comment from my thereapist... . it's also often posted here... .

"Stop listening to their words, start looking at their behaviour... . that is your truth"... .

How would things look if you started doing this constantly?... .

[Aussie0zborn]

Hi Cat. I had exactly the same thing in the beginning. I suggested she sort herself out and call me when she had made a decision as I walked out the door - she wouldn't let me leave and decided right there and then that she was finished with him.

There were phone calls a year and two years later.  Three years later when I got her to open the safe while she was very drunk, we counted five engagement rings and a love letter from this guy that she had kept all thosej years. Through sleight of hand I appropriated the letter and read it the next day. This guy should have been writing for Mills and Boon, the romance publishers!

When she was at the "hater" stage at the end, I suggested that I had to be by her side 24/7 otherwise she would have run off with some other guy. She said, "you should have tried it to see". In other words, all my efforts to make her feel secure were wasted, as were the seven years I put into the relationship.

In relation to that guy from the beginning, she said he called her numerous times and she said,

"I'm living with someone"

"I'm engaged"

"I'm married". I said, "what, he rang you as recently as two years ago."

She was proud to say, "yes" with a smile of satisfaction on her face which can only cause hurt and confusion.

You ask if you're overreacting. I think you KNOW that you're NOT which is why you're seeking a reality check here.

My experience and that of others you read about here is that this nonsense never ends. As long as your man needs to feel wanted to validate himself as a person and get his fix, you can count on this happening all the time. And each time it will be your fault. My suggestion ofcourse is don't do this to yourself. He will do it to you without hesitation because he NEEDS it but why would YOU do this to yourself? What do you need?

[drv3006]

The answer to your question. 

No!

[CatBlack]

Thanks for the responses and the reality check. We had a long talk last night where he seemed to get past the blaming and the minimizing to a place where I got a (seemingly) sincere apology. He says that when he moved in, he wasn't really over her but thought he could "fake it till he made it," but over the months he felt like he just wasn't at peace with way he ended things with her and he wanted one more chance to apologize and end it on a good note. And that now that he has done that, he's really truly over it this time, for real. And he understands why I'm angry and hurt, and he's sorry, but he wants to put it all in the past and move on... .

That's his version. Here's how I see it - he has been cycling between us since last fall and he just can't stop. She got sick of it before I did, he figured out that she wasn't going to play his games any more, and he put on a full campaign to win me over and move in with me so we could live happily ever after, because he's terrified of losing me for good. A few months along, and there's just not enough drama beyond the occasional BPD-style pointless fight, so he decides to check in with her to see if she'll bite and provide some soap opera material for him. She's not buying it this time, so he calls it "closure" and figures no harm done, since I always forgive him and take him back.

It's always the same thing. He says he's sorry, he says he's over it, he says that he really loves me and wants to spend his life with me and I'm The One etc. etc. And then things are good for a few weeks or a few months, and he's my best friend and everything I want in a partner... . and then things start to unravel, he becomes moody and distant and sharp and mean, and then I find out about the other woman and we have a giant fight and I threaten to leave him and he cries and apologizes and says he's learned his lesson and we start over.  I think this "other woman" is really out of the picture this time (by her choice) but I feel sure that there will be another one eventually. The most interesting woman in the world is always the one he has to chase.

I don't even know how many times this has been repeated. I told him last night that he needed to move out, but realistically it will be another month or two before he has the money together to make that happen. I'm not angry enough with him to make him homeless over this.

I'm worried that over the time it takes for him to save up a deposit and find another place, he'll win me back like he always does. Right now, I just want the drama out of my door but if he behaves for a while, which he's capable of, I'll start to think of how much I'll miss waking up next to him or watching tv with him at night or coming home to him after work - it's like he's two different people. When the "evil twin" goes away for long enough I start to think it's not so bad, because the "good twin" is so good. A few months later, I'll be right back here crying. Right now I'm getting lots of mushy lovey apologetic texts, and I know he'll be behaving like the champion boyfriend for a while, and I sort of hate myself for looking forward to that.

[Aussie0zborn]

When I read the first paragraph of the reply above, I felt you were going to get sucked right back in. But your second and subsequent paragraphs show you have a perfect understanding of what's going on here.

If I had that same understanding back then, like many others here I would have handled it differently. My disadvantage was that I had no idea about BPD or what i was really dealing with and nor did I tell anyone or seek help. I was blamed and I accepted that I was at fault, selfish for working hard, etc etc.

You are lucky that you have a good understanding of what you are dealing with and you seem to have a clear, sensible and considered approach. When you're in the thickest FOG things are not clear at all.

Ofcourse you would miss him but right now you are giving him the chance to draw you back in. Please don't lose sight of yourself and continue to use your good sense so that the FOG doesnt impede your judgement. Good luck.

[Siamese Rescue]

I've read so much on this forum, but your original post and subsequent reply post has qualified as the one piece of writing I should print, frame and hang at eye level in every room in my home. 

I've been triangulated in a relationship very similar to yours for 7 years. I've been at war since finding out about the other woman 5 years ago.  (the first two years it was simply his claims that he wanted to buy his "silent business partner" out so he could "get away from her" - it was two year in that I found out she was far more than a silent business partner. The war between us two women has rivaled something out of tribal slaughtering and guess who has sat in his prime seat at the top of the triangle?

I read your words and they so accurately describe my experience. Once upon a time I was a rather articulate speaker and eloquent writer. Now? After this full time job of being in a push/pull, on/off, love/hate, up/down, back/forth relationship with a man whose mood swings sway in six hour increments? I'm barely able to string words together.

Just so you know, like your boyfriend, mine too made weekly, monthly, yearly promises that he was going to be able to "get away from her" and "pay her the money she was due" and we would be able to "be together alone".  Uh huh.  IT NEVER HAPPENS.

We were apart for three and a half months (end of April til mid August) No contact with the exception of his regular calls to someone close to me to constantly inquire if I was involved with someone else.  Finally, he surfaced with cards and pledges of aching misery at how much he missed me, his eternal love, blah blah blah.

I'm glad to see that you recognize that the triangle for you might be over or temporarily out of commission only because the other woman has pulled out.  Please keep reminding yourself of that.  Should she resurface you need to be aware how vulnerable you will be. He will be happy to get the other point on his triangle. 

I understand this site is sensitive about recognizing that BPD is an illness and that these people really can't help their abusive behavior. I further realize (and learned the hard way) that we are responsible to protect ourselves. Frankly i'd rather wear a bullet proof vest everyday because that would be easier than trying to protect your mind and your emotions and emotional well being from someone who is wired to destroy it due to their personality disorder.

Finally, the point I'm trying to make is that your observation that there will always be another woman is on target.  Or the original "other woman" will come back. I've allowed myself to get sucked back into this and guess what? During the period of no contact he did not miraculously improve, heal or get well.  Nor did the time away from me "snap him into shape" and "scare him so much that he might lose me that he'd start acting normal".  I believe that these people cannot and will not change without intense therapy. (he had zero - he blamed me for being "crazy and jealous and overly nosy" He is still unpredictable.  The honeymoon phase was over within a week.  Granted, I will concede that he is making far more efforts than in the past, yet the psychological abuse is always infused into the good deeds. (He takes you to a nice dinner and complains your shoes are too high and makes you look like an amazon. He replaces a faucet in your home and tells you it's a mess because you never knew what you were doing when maintaining a house. If someone pulls out on him on the road, he's angry at the world and mean and nasty to everyone all day.)

Thank you for sharing that you experience periods of months with your best friend, your soul mate, your snuggle buddy who loves the same shows, believing all the bad is finally over and you made it to the finish line. More importantly thank you for sharing that it all crumbles with no forewarning, no reasoning, in an illogical fashion and you end up spiraling out of control trying to understand why while simultaneously trying to prevent the destruction. 

Not to sound like a know it all, because trust me, this is a badge of experience I'd rather not hold tenure for, IT NEVER CHANGES. 7 and a half years later, after losing all my money, sanity and composure, dignity and self respect, he recently admitted he's always going to be her "friend" and know her and occasionally share lunch or dinner with her.  The woman he claimed to vehemently hate up until now. 

I never took anyone's advice when they said, "RUN" but now I understand it and it makes sense. You're likely much younger than I am. I know how hard it is because the connection is so strong to them and they seem irreplaceable, but ... . RUN.

[Siamese Rescue]

Sorry, one more thing:

Yes, over time you WILL forget all the bad and you WILL recall only the good things.  You WILL soften up if he tries to engage you again. You WILL lose your recollection of all the terrible lies and womanizing and mood swings and betrayals.  You completely forget all of it because you think they've finally come to their senses and they will be the prince that they were during the idealization phase. 

I'm so sorry to report that for my situation, he didn't change a bit and going back with him was likely a mistake. 

We are finally going to a therapist and he HAS exhibited trace amounts of maturity that I didn't see in the past, but honestly, they're like spits in the ocean. 

Try to make a list of what you want out of life, a list of goals, where you want to be in five years, in ten years.  Focus on that list daily, because the time will pass and it is very easy to just keep churning it into this relationship that likely will go nowhere.

Also, thanks for sharing that you didn't want him to move in until he was done with this other woman... . My boyfriend spent a few weeks here a few years ago and I later found out he was texting her pics from inside my house, one of which was a nude of himself to prove to her he was sleeping in another room that night and not having sex with me... .

[Aussie0zborn]

Siamese Rescue : I love both your posts. Thank you for sharing. The first one is worth printing and framing. This is just so typical and a perfect example of triangulation.

[CatBlack]

It's amazing how similar all our stories are.  It's like they have this script they all read from. It's good to hear from those who are further into the movie than I am so I can see how it all ends. Well, not "good," exactly. Helpful.

Also, thanks for sharing that you didn't want him to move in until he was done with this other woman... . My boyfriend spent a few weeks here a few years ago and I later found out he was texting her pics from inside my house, one of which was a nude of himself to prove to her he was sleeping in another room that night and not having sex with me... .

My guy sent the other woman a nude picture that I had taken - before I even knew what was going on, he asked me to take the picture and then sent it to her almost right away. Classy. 

Not to sound like a know it all, because trust me, this is a badge of experience I'd rather not hold tenure for, IT NEVER CHANGES. 7 and a half years later, after losing all my money, sanity and composure, dignity and self respect, he recently admitted he's always going to be her "friend" and know her and occasionally share lunch or dinner with her.  The woman he claimed to vehemently hate up until now. 

I never took anyone's advice when they said, "RUN" but now I understand it and it makes sense. You're likely much younger than I am. I know how hard it is because the connection is so strong to them and they seem irreplaceable, but ... . RUN.

THANK YOU. Speaking of printing and framing, this needs to go on my wall. I have to remember this, through whatever else happens. He's proven that he'll say whatever he thinks he has to say to me with no regard as to how his lies can devastate my life. He just doesn't seem to care. He said he didn't think contacting her in the way he did would cause problems with us, since in his version of reality he wasn't trying to start anything with her. Since I had been extremely clear and specific about exactly how I felt about the whole thing and, most especially, that I would not tolerate it in my own home, and that I did not want a relationship with him if he was still involved with her in any way, even as "friends,"  I asked how he could possibly think that. He said, "I guess I wasn't thinking."

That's it. This thing that crashed into our lives and devastated our relationship, made the last eight months total chaos for us, led to endless sleepless nights and tears and fights and screaming - none of this mattered to him to even give it a thought. So even if it really is over with her, even if I give him that much of the benefit of the doubt, he's proven that our relationship doesn't even merit a thought when it goes up against "doing whatever he feels like doing in the moment." It's only a matter of time before he drives a freight train through our lives again. If we stay together, no matter how good things might seem in the moment, that train wreck is always on its way.

He went through a med change this summer and has been horribly depressed and erratic for the past few months.  He just got on the right pills again a few days ago and has been making some good changes in his life and if all this wasn't going on, I'd be ecstatic for him and hopeful for our future. Instead I just feel numb inside. In the past, I probably would have made excuses for him based on the med issue, but really, it wouldn't have mattered.

[Siamese Rescue]

When he broke up with me at the end of April he threatened me with a restraining order. He banned me from the places we regularly visited, told me not to call or contact him, etc. Within two weeks he was on the phone telling a close relative how he missed me, thinks about me constantly. My relative said, "Well you told her to stay away, you threatened me with a restraining order!"  His reply was "Well I don't feel that way NOW"

The mushy cards they buy you? Those sentiments are only accurate for the time he's paying for them at the cash register. When he gets ready he'll say, "So what? Rip the stupid cards up!"

They feel for the moment and it's subject to change with no warning.

He has watched two women fight like two middle eastern countries and he will side with one, then switch and share all the intelligence and funding with the other side, until he switches back to the other side, having stripped the original side of all its military"

It never ends. Just because she's gone doesn't mean you can ever trust him. I have learned this in the most cutting, shocking ways.

I sincerely hope there's a solid way out ... . for all of us. Many of us were once independent thinking, life loving, confident, balanced people. These relationships take on a life of their own.

[DetroitDame]

OMG, this triangulation thing just adds more fuel to this raging BPD fire.  Scary!

[CatBlack]

Of course, it's all following the script. Friday and Saturday he was pretty much just awful. Very withdrawn and cold, telling me that he was never really in love with me and that he felt we should just be friends because we had no sexual chemistry and while he loved me as a friend, he just wasn't attracted to me and never really had been, and that we could not stay together because he wanted someone who was more exciting in bed. This is his normal go-to thing when we're breaking up. It used to throw me into the depths of despair and heartbreak and confusion. It still hurt to hear it again, but this time around it wasn't the same kind of pain - rather than beating myself up and feeling inadequate and unattractive, I just felt really terrible that we'd come back around to this again somehow after a few good months. It also helped that this time around I'm aware of "splitting" and could kind of sit back and watch it happen instead of letting it dig at my self-image.

So Friday night I went out with some friends, came home late, and slept on the couch. I spent Saturday at an event in the park with some other friends, and then went and spent some time at my friend's house catching up with her. I don't even tell people about my relationship any more because it's just too hard to explain - I told her that he was looking for his own place but things were fine, we were still friends, and just kept asking about her life because I didn't want to talk about mine.

I got home around midnight and set up the couch again to sleep there, and he insisted I share the bed since "it's more comfortable there" (translation: "i miss you." Of course we ended up having sex. Really good sex, like it always is with us. After, I said, "no chemistry, huh?" and he said "I'm an idiot and I'm sorry, I don't know why I say the things I do."

So we spent time together Sunday doing relationship talk, and of course I'm painted white again. He said that he says the things he does because he gets terrified of losing me and has to convince himself that he's not losing anything that great in order to deal with the fear. I said, "yeah, I figured that one out already" and I told him a little of what I learned about BPD. He said it sounded exactly like him and that he'd talk to his therapist about it, and also about why he feels the need to keep going back to the Other Woman (OW). Whenever he's in the aftermath of these things, he gets very self-aware and that was always so encouraging in the past. He has absolutely made progress since I've known him, but it always feels like two steps forward and one-and-a-half steps back every time.

Now he's telling me that he's really sorry for it all, I'm The One, it won't happen again, he knows he has problems and will get help, etc. etc. etc. Same as always. I nod and agree and encourage that and tell him I'm really glad to hear that and that I hope it's true and also that he still has to move out. I don't know where he and I are going, as friends, as a couple, as anything, but for my own sake I'm holding firm on getting him out of my house. I'm also therapist shopping for myself since I feel out of my depth here dealing with him and with our dynamic.

[Siamese Rescue]

So many of them behave the same. It's simply fascinating. Mine is gone again because I blasted him on Friday. I could no longer stand the weird, odd things. I hate feeling like he thinks I'm stupid.

I had to reply because your comment about therapist shopping made me raise my brows. I have yet to find one who is good. I'm hoping the new one I have on Wednesday is the guru everyone makes him out to be.

It almost doesn't matter to me, because I am so strong willed and so attached to him again that it doesn't matter who tells me to let it go. I feel like that is all I'm paying for. For someone to tell me what I already know, yet the pain doesn't subside at all.

I hope you find a good therapist.

I too let myself get roped in with sex and attention and empty promises, etc. Now, when you call them out on their weird behavior it causes them to pull away from you. I swear it's as if they only want people who they can snow. I'm aching beyond words right now... .again.

[DetroitDame]

So many of them behave the same. It's simply fascinating. Mine is gone again because I blasted him on Friday. I could no longer stand the weird, odd things. I hate feeling like he thinks I'm stupid.

I had to reply because your comment about therapist shopping made me raise my brows. I have yet to find one who is good. I'm hoping the new one I have on Wednesday is the guru everyone makes him out to be.

It almost doesn't matter to me, because I am so strong willed and so attached to him again that it doesn't matter who tells me to let it go. I feel like that is all I'm paying for. For someone to tell me what I already know, yet the pain doesn't subside at all.

I hope you find a good therapist.

I too let myself get roped in with sex and attention and empty promises, etc. Now, when you call them out on their weird behavior it causes them to pull away from you. I swear it's as if they only want people who they can snow. I'm aching beyond words right now... .again.

Not sure what to tell you because it appears that you have lost hope but just stay strong!

[CatBlack]

Siamese Rescue, I wish I could give you a hug, and then we could have a massive venting session about our men over a bottle of red wine. I've never found a good therapist for myself, either - I've tried a couple over the years for different issues, and they have all been worthless. I'm hoping to eventually find someone who can actually help me.

When he moved in I promised him that if he contacted her in any way while living with me, he would have to move. I did this for my own self-preservation and right now I'm glad I did, because I have a thing about not breaking promises, even to myself. I don't make them lightly. Otherwise I'd probably be preparing myself to get snowed under again, because I'm just too attached. I made that promise on purpose, though, knowing myself and that I'd be tempted to overlook it or forgive him or "try again" or whatever, and then I'd just have more chaos and sorrow and hurt under my own roof. I don't defend my heart very well but I can at least defend my home, you know?

If he's out, I know I will probably stay involved with him in some way but at least I'll have the option of not seeing him and I'll have a safe place to live. He's calling me stubborn for sticking to it but stubbornness seems to be my only defense right now.