Time for ME

[Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits.]

Well here goes... .

I guess I am ready for the next step and I am looking for a little direction? 

I've been through the whole "dynamic" of my relationships.  I've experienced the vast array of emotions that are associated with them.

So, from what I understand,  now is the time that I have to do one of the hardest things and actually look at myself and try to understand WHY/WHAT causes me to be so vulnerable when it comes to these types of relations?

I look at my patterns and I have to ask myself, why do I fall for these people?  Why do I fall so HARD for these people?  Why do I set myself up for failure; as I will give everything at the expense of MYSELF to try and please and show my feelings?

I've always tried to treat others as I want them to treat me.  Respect, MUTUAL RESPECT is the #1 thing that I demand from a partner... . I guess my thinking is wrong / incorrect, because I thought everyone wants this from a partner?  ABSOLUTLEY NOT, as I have experienced! 

This, I guess, is the next step.

A little guidance is appreciated!

thanks

MCC 

I have always considered myself a pretty "good catch," in terms of relationships.  I have, or try to appear to have, all of the things that would attract others. 

[mcc503764]

Well here goes... .

I guess I am ready for the next step and I am looking for a little direction? 

I've been through the whole "dynamic" of my relationships.  I've experienced the vast array of emotions that are associated with them.

So, from what I understand,  now is the time that I have to do one of the hardest things and actually look at myself and try to understand WHY/WHAT causes me to be so vulnerable when it comes to these types of relations?

I look at my patterns and I have to ask myself, why do I fall for these people?  Why do I fall so HARD for these people?  Why do I set myself up for failure; as I will give everything at the expense of MYSELF to try and please and show my feelings?

I've always tried to treat others as I want them to treat me.  Respect, MUTUAL RESPECT is the #1 thing that I demand from a partner... . I guess my thinking is wrong / incorrect, because I thought everyone wants this from a partner?  ABSOLUTLEY NOT, as I have experienced! 

This, I guess, is the next step.

A little guidance is appreciated!

thanks

MCC 

I have always considered myself a pretty "good catch," in terms of relationships.  I have, or try to appear to have, all of the things that would attract others. 

[seeking balance]

Welcome to the PI board MCC!

Well, sounds cliche' - but, we have to start with getting very honest about our first primary attachments.

Children learn what is modeled around them, sponges really and very perceptive a adapting behavior to keep primary caretakers happy and connected.

So... . want to dive into the similarities between you BPD relationship and your childhood attachments?

Cheers,

SB

[Suzn]

Good to see you in PI MCC. 

The first question I contemplated was "why did I stay in the relationship?"

[mcc503764]

Good to see you in PI MCC. 

The first question I contemplated was "why did I stay in the relationship?"

Good question... .

I guess I stayed because I have always had the belief that when you love somebody, you will do whatever it takes to make it work!  You fight for it!  I didn't get married to get divorced. 

I gave as much as I possibly could, seeking some form of acceptance from my xBPD.  When I didn't get anything in return, I gave more... . (you can see where this is going... . )

I guess I got this from my mother, who never was really good at talking, so instead, she would show her love by buying me things, spending time with me, and taking me places. 

I tend to live by the thought that actions speak louder than words?  I tend to build these gestures up in my mind and do admittedly get certain expectations of how she should have (in my mind) responded.  I am well aware that is one of my issues right there... . certain expectations that I have with people.  It wasn't as if they were unrealistic, but a simple "thank you" would have gone a long way in this area!  For me, this is common decency to another human?  And ultimately, when these "expectations" weren't met or reciprocated, I would get hurt... .

Working through the hard times as a couple lets  you grow together.  It strengthens your bond?  It strengthens the relationship.  Is my belief of "love" incorrect?  Obviously in this situation, it was... .

I guess I was determined to make it work, but the harder I'd try, the more she'd pull away, ultimately leaving me to feel inadequate.  I tolerated multiple jabs / comments from her about my situation, my finances, my family.  I was compared to her ex's.  I was afraid to stick up for myself for the fear of losing the marriage.  This obviously only allowed myself to be disrespected more and more, and I got to the point to where I couldn't win either way!  So a combination of this and a faltering self esteem / worth issues, and her attachment / involvement in my children's lives (I have full custody of my 2 children from my first marriage) is why I felt that determination to "make it work."

But then I started acting out.  When things got bad, or I felt that I had no other choice, I would leave.  This action directly struck on her abandonment fear, and it snowballed from there to the constant cycle.

I stayed for so long because I allowed her to have control over me.  I was afraid to be myself.  I didn't know who I was anymore.  I knew nothing of boundaries.  Her likes, dislikes became mine.  It was obviously highly codependent... .

I placed this person on a pedestal.  I trusted, and I honestly thought due to her profession (mental health,) that she had the same view as me or that she would have the skillset to help the relationship?

I honestly stayed because I was in the FOG, so to speak.  I knew nothing of boundaries.  I have always struggled with self esteem issues but now I work on them daily as I am learning how to enjoy my new life!

MCC

[Suzn]

 You speak a lot of your beliefs and values here. It's really great to be able to recognize those mcc. Putting aside everything she did, that is her inventory, this is yours. Seeing the codependent tendencies let's seperate yours from hers. What were you lacking in you that you got from this relationship?

Understanding the dynamic with your own mother plays a role here.

[mcc503764]

You speak a lot of your beliefs and values here. It's really great to be able to recognize those mcc. Putting aside everything she did, that is her inventory, this is yours. Seeing the codependent tendencies let's seperate yours from hers. What were you lacking in you that you got from this relationship?

Understanding the dynamic with your own mother plays a role here.

I was lacking self confidence, self esteem, and self worth.  I very admittedly was pretty superficial, almost vain, so to speak in that she was a gorgeous, popular, professional woman (on the surface.)  So I guess I would say that being with someone like that made me feel good about myself?

My mother is a very strong woman as well.  She was a professional, and is a very pretty woman.  I can definitely see the similarities between the two, but as a child growing up, I cant really overly remember trying to "please mother," so to speak?

Due to work and her r/s with my alcoholic father, and my 2 siblings, mom was always busy.

I was the youngest, and it's kind of like when my time came, both of my parents were exhausted and they seemed to just let me do whatever I wanted to do... . This is terrible for a teenager, as I dabbled in a bit of everything!

This distance from my mother, I would assume led me vulnerable to getting involved in codependent relationships.  Apparently, I was seeking attachment and attention from my relationships that I didn't get while I was growing up?

Am I on to something here?

MCC

[Suzn]

I guess I stayed because I have always had the belief that when you love somebody, you will do whatever it takes to make it work!  You fight for it!    

I gave as much as I possibly could, seeking some form of acceptance from my xBPD.  

I guess I got this from my mother, who never was really good at talking.

I tend to live by the thought that actions speak louder than words.

But then I started acting out.  When things got bad, or I felt that I had no other choice, I would leave.  

I stayed for so long because I allowed her to have control over me.  I was afraid to be myself.  

I think you are definately on to something. Do you think it's fair to say you felt heard in the beginning? Your mother showed you her definition of how to show love. Right? This is how you were raised. All these things are your perception because it's what you know, what you were taught. Even if it was only by you observing. Everyone is taught differently to some degree. Everyone usually has reasons behind why they feel so strongly about certain beliefs. Why do you think you feel so strongly about doing whatever it takes to make it work?

[mcc503764]

I guess I stayed because I have always had the belief that when you love somebody, you will do whatever it takes to make it work!  You fight for it!   

I gave as much as I possibly could, seeking some form of acceptance from my xBPD. 

I guess I got this from my mother, who never was really good at talking.

I tend to live by the thought that actions speak louder than words.

But then I started acting out.  When things got bad, or I felt that I had no other choice, I would leave. 

I stayed for so long because I allowed her to have control over me.  I was afraid to be myself. 

Why do you think you feel so strongly about what it takes to make it work?

Because despite my parents relationship, my fathers struggle with alcoholism, they rode through it.  My father eventually quit drinking and turned his life around.

My mother stayed, when she very easily could've left.  They both had their respective careers and combined their income and made a great life for their selves!  TOGETHER, despite everything!

I guess my parents set the example for me as to the benefits of hardwork, determination, and dedication?

Even to this day, both of their mothers are 96 and are in failing health.  But, they still work together to care for them.  They have found a way to be so giving of their selves.  It causes trouble between them at times, but they really have set the example for me as to what a relationship should look like... . (well, for the most part)

My mother, at times, still struggles with forgiving my father for his past wrongs, and sometimes uses it to her advantage to guilt him into doing certain things, or in my opinion control him to an extent, but he takes it, lets it roll off his back, and just kinda goes with it?  I am far from saying that this is healthy, but he doesn't really let it get to him... . He does look beatdown and broken at times, but he also plays it up well, but that's their dynamic and a part of his humorous personality... . if that makes any sense?

In relation to my xBPD, my mother was too involved.  She doesn't really have good boundaries (either of them,) and my x was almost identical to my mother... . (same birth sign and all... . )  So my mother did fill my x with a bunch of her own opinions and I found that my mother was trying to control me through my x?

I have had to take a few steps back from my mother because of that.  I am still, to this day, struggling at times with the thought of "if only my mother would have stayed out of my life, where would I be right now?"

My mother has a lot of BPD traits, but I believe she is more of a narcissist / OCD than anything else.  While the x meets about 3000 of the 9 DSM criteria  ... . So combine the two and it definitely didn't help the relationship.  Mom was trying to control me and my children (her grandchildren) and my parenting style through the influence of my x.   

And to further the situation, once I noticed that I was being treated like my father is at times, I didn't want to become that "broken, beatup, controlled" man.

Guess what I am saying is that despite their BS and the games that they BOTH still play with each other to this day, they have set the example and have made it work for almost 50 years now... .

They have stuck through multiple events together, and in its own way helped them to grow closer and strengthen their bond with one another.  I guess I wanted the same with the x?

MCC

[nolisan]

 I am 11 months out of a very dysfunctional r/s  with a BPD woman. I spent the first 3 months figuring HER out and blaming her for all my pain. Then I started to look at my stuff and my part. This was a lot harder (and less fun ) but it has proved to be very fulfilling. I have discovered a "bonanza" of personal awareness here - not all pleasant. But it is a new spring board for personal growth.

I am so grateful to the ACA (Adult Children of Alcoholics and dysfunctional families) and CoDA (Codependents Anonymous) programs. I have done at least one telephone meeting every day since the breakup and go to f2f meetings as well.

[mcc503764]

So I can definitely see the correlation between my parents r/s and the ones that I have been in myself.

I see where my opinion / behavior comes from.  I guess my question is, "now what?"

Obviously continuing on with working on myself and caring for myself which I continue to do so daily.  Improving my self esteem / worth because that is what put me here in the first place... .

MCC

[Suzn]

This distance from my mother, I would assume led me vulnerable to getting involved in codependent relationships.  Apparently, I was seeking attachment and attention from my relationships that I didn't get while I was growing up?

Exploring your feelings about this distance you had while growing up may be helpful, how did you feel about not having this attention when you were young?

This path, from your past, as you say seemed to lead you to a relationship that was unhealthy for you. Looking at what's behind our codependent behaviors in our relationships, because we stayed in a relationship that was harmful to us (we had a choice) is a good place to start. Enabling behaviors, on our part, shows where we are with our boundaries, looking at what can we do so we don't end up in another relationship with the same dynamic in the future. Self preservation is our responsibility. Codependent behaviors tend to extend past just romantic relationships.

As a recovering Codo myself, I see where my codependency was about control, attempting to control situations where I felt uncomfortable. My own hurt and anger stemmed from my resentment of my ex not complying with my attempts to control my environment. If I could control her, I could control what made me uncomfortable. There was an alcoholic from my childhood and I know now that my fear back when I was a child molded my perception as an adult. Doing things for her, taking care of everything, was my way of manipulating her to "pay me back in kind." If I'm nice to you, you should be nice to me, isn't that how it's supposed to work in perfect relationships? Codependents can take this too far to our own detriment.


 

[mcc503764]

This distance from my mother, I would assume led me vulnerable to getting involved in codependent relationships.  Apparently, I was seeking attachment and attention from my relationships that I didn't get while I was growing up?

I see where my codependency was about control, attempting to control situations where I felt uncomfortable. My own hurt and anger stemmed from my resentment of my ex not complying with my attempts to control my environment. If I could control her, I could control what made me uncomfortable. There was an alcoholic from my childhood and I know now that my fear back when I was a child molded my perception as an adult. Doing things for her, taking care of everything, was my way of manipulating her to "pay me back in kind." If I'm nice to you, you should be nice to me, isn't that how it's supposed to work in perfect relationships? Codependents can take this too far to our own detriment.


 

This is the part where I struggle with... .I, very consciously, NEVER tried to control her behaviors.  I didn't need to try and control her, as I viewed her as a very independent, headstrong woman.  It was always about respect with her.

If any of her actions had to be "controlled," or forced, then I wouldn't have wanted them because they weren't genuine.  Does that make sense? 

I seriously wanted a reciprocated relationship, based on mutual respect.  When I didn't get that, I acted out.  I was like a child in that respect.  This activated her abandonment fears, and thus began the cycles... .This is my understanding of it anyhow... .

I believe that my codependency was not about control, rather due to my low self esteem and lack of boundaries.  Not to sound like the "victim" here, but I lived in fear of her for a majority of the relationship.

MCC

[Suzn]

I hear ya MCC, my ex actually told me I was controlling and it would make me so mad. I use to tell her "I want you to control youself!"I I didn't see it till I landed here.

"I seriously wanted a reciprocated relationship, based on mutual respect.  When I didn't get that, I acted out.  I was like a child in that respect."

This is what we all wanted, a reciprocal r/s. When you didn't get that, you acted out. What did you accomplish here? What did this look like? Did acting out change what you weren't getting? Do you see this for what it is?

[mcc503764]

This is what we all wanted, a reciprocal r/s. When you didn't get that, you acted out. What did you accomplish here? What did this look like? Did acting out change what you weren't getting? Do you see this for what it is?

By "acting out," I only added fuel to the fire.  I would leave, not answer my phone and go out with the friends that she "forbid" me from seeing... .  It did nothing constructive.  In retrospect, I should have communicated my needs better.  I should have told her that I needed to take a "time out," and that we'd talk about things when we both settled down... .I guess, in retrospect, it just got to the point to where I grew sick of constantly kissing her a$$, so to speak, that I figured that if I were to try and communicate with her on a mature / healthy level, I would only be kissing her a$$ more?  I hope that makes sense.

Obviously I was caught up in a r/s dynamic that I felt as if I really couldn't win either way.  The push/pull was a complete mindf^%k.  The more it continued, the more I grew sicker of it to the point that I just wanted out... .I wanted to be MYSELF, I wanted to reclaim MY life!

I see it, I get it... .

I got really hung up on the fact that she is a therapist... .I guess I was naïve in the fact that I assumed that she would've known how to make something work?

MCC 

[Suzn]

It makes sense. I get it. Low self esteem, not feeling you can be yourself, loosing yourself in this relationship Kneeding to break free)... have you felt this way before in your past?  When was the first time you remember if so?

What other codependent characteristics do you identify with?

[mcc503764]

It makes sense. I get it. Low self esteem, not feeling you can be yourself, loosing yourself in this relationship Kneeding to break free)... have you felt this way before in your past?  When was the first time you remember if so?

What other codependent characteristics do you identify with?

have you felt this way before in your past?

With every r/s, there is the "honeymoon" phase.  The idealization and the enmeshment.  But that tends to slowly fade and people seem to be able to comfortably implement their own personal lives into things and it really doesn't cause any problems.

In viewing my past r/s's, I personally had no problem with going about and being myself.  I still liked what I like and I didn't find myself changing much, if any, for the sake of the other person.  I guess, as funny as this may sound, is that I think those past r/s's were reciprocated.  I got what I needed in the r/s.  I didn't have to feel like I was "chasing" them, rather just the opposite.

I always do put my partner first though, but not in the codependent way.  Yes, I would consider their feelings when making a personal decision, but they weren't the deciding factor.  I WAS... .

BUT... .for some reason that wasn't enough for me, so I would end the r/s?  Things would happen, life situations would change, and I never felt close enough to want to continue the r/s, for whatever particular reason... .

When was the first time you remember if so?

I honestly cannot really remember a time in my past r/s's that have even remotely resembled this feeling.  I didn't have to "chase" my past partners.  They were usually into me more than I was into them. 

Sounds funny, I know, but I was rather "indifferent," so to speak.  But, I was able to remain myself, and continue living MY life.

What other codependent characteristics do you identify with?

The very term, "codependency," was never even a word in my vocabulary until my xBPD r/s.  Her, being a therapist, liked to label everything, every action, every behavior, and this was one of the many terms that she would use in a judgmental / demeaning way to describe our "dynamic." 

It's almost as if the r/s turned me into a codependent person; one that I cannot really ever remember being in the past?

So the characteristics that I can identify with are:

- Basing your own personal mood from the others... .(if they are happy = you're happy and vice versa)

- Spending more time concentrating on solving / fixing their problems, rather than your own personal issues.

- Taking personal ownership to their feelings.  (if they are unhappy, then the thought that it has to be because of you, or something that you may have done.)

- Spending every waking second with the other person.

- Stopping / cessation of your own personal interests (friends, hobbies, activities,) for the sake of this other person.

- Distance from family / friends

- Giving up your own identity, compromising your own personal beliefs / values in order to align closer with the other persons.

I do understand the principle of "compromising" in a r/s and in every r/s there has to be a certain amount of this, but not to the extent that this one went to.  I guess I couldn't find that "healthy balance," so to speak.

MCC

[Suzn]

Indifference doesn't imply trust and love, it sounds rather safe. Would this fit?

[mcc503764]

Indifference doesn't imply trust and love, it sounds rather safe. Would this fit?

"Indifferent," meaning that I could either take it or leave it, which is where I am at now once again... .

It's a good safe place for me.

[Suzn]

I honestly cannot really remember a time in my past r/s's that have even remotely resembled this feeling.  I didn't have to "chase" my past partners.  They were usually into me more than I was into them. 

Sounds funny, I know, but I was rather "indifferent," so to speak.  But, I was able to remain myself, and continue living MY life.

Exactly, in your past relationships you could take it or leave it. All of them? This would suggest you have never allowed yourself to be vulnerable or get too close. Would this be correct? If they were more into you than you were into them were these relationships really reciprocal?