Extreme fear of lonliness leading to descent back to jail

[qcarolr]

DD back in jail today. Her extreme behaviors, including having exbf come to our house yesterday that violates no-contact order and probation- terrorizing the rest of the family. Most especially gd8. It was so hard to come to gain the courage to do the best thing. When she would not abide by our reasonable house rule about no guests, would not abide by the rules of her probation for no-contact with exbf, when her screaming-cursing-name calling relentlessly put gd into a hypervigilant state last night -- who do I call to figure out who to call?

So I stopped at local police station to ask - who should I call. To get DD out of our house, to get DD help with her descent into fear of abandonment h*ll, to restore peace in my home. Well, I told the story of this year - the past was already in the record and the interviewing officer had been to our house in the past. She suggested that I fill out a statement focused on the no-contact violation and impacts of DD actions on gd. This would allow a warrant for her arrest. This compassionate officer called at about noon that DD was at the jail. I could go home to meet gd's bus without worry.

Was impressed at the level of training this police officer had in domestic and mental health situations. When I was talking about the BPD and how this was showing up in DD's actions she asked, ":)o you have an idea of where this came from? Was she adopted?"  Only recently have I been reading about attachement and trauma as a part of the profile for many with BPD, esp. from earlier childhood. The stigma of being a 'bad mom' was not there today.

We had a peaceful night. Gd had shocked look at first when I told her that mommy was in jail. Then there was relief. It is raining buckets all day and tonight and for the next couple days. So good inside afternoon. Gd actually did her writing homework with no arguing. Tucked herself in bed with both dogs and went to sleep.

I took 2 calls from DD today. She is so distraught. In locked observation cell it sounds like. She told them she had not idea what her mental state is. That she has an active MRSA infection (very contagious). Told me she is sick and needs to come so she has her stuff. I advised her to ask for what she needs, ask to speak to her lawyer tomorrow. That I had talked with lawyer today. And yes, I did report the no-contact violation. Then time was about up. Said talking to me was making things worse for her, so to not call anymore until tomorrow. Wonder if she is also on suicide watch?

She is my baby. I want to hold her, rock her, comfort her. And I know she would not be able to allow this or accept my love today. She is in a dark place blocked off from all this from me. She has come back from this before, I will have faith she will return again. And maybe the system can provide her the structure she needs to get into real treatment. I told someone today, maybe the lawyer, she needs court ordered residential treamtent. She will not be safe for herself or others on the street. And she cannot be in our home.

Will know more as a little time goes by. She has only misdemeanors - less resources for treatment maybe. Hope she sees the same judge for her bond hearing tomorrow. I will not be attending.

qcr  

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[vivekananda]

qcr    and more.

I am so sorry. The pain you feel must be immense and mixed with a relief that dd is safe enough and so are you and your gd and dh. Our hearts have broken before and we have survived. We will do so again.

I am glad the cop was a goodie who could validate your experience.

I am praying that more good will come from this.

Cheers,

Vivek    

[peaceplease]

qcr,

I am so sorry for the pain that you are feeling.  It is a situation of darned if you do and darned if you don't.  There will be pain, either way you go. Perhaps, she has a chance of getting into treatment, if the judge will consider your wishes.  Hopefully, the lawyer will suggest residential as you mentioned.  The attorney did witness your dd yelling, so a new picture has been painted. 

I am glad that you are setting the boundary of not going to bond hearing.  So glad that you had a compassionate cop. 

You have been bullied long enough.  I hope that your dd will get the treatment that she needs.  Ev

Praying, too, for a good final outcome.   

 

peace

[Rapt Reader]

 qcr   

I'm sorry to hear of your daughter's distress, but glad that your family is safe and sound.

I believe that God is in control of this, and you just need to forgive yourself for doing what had to be done, and let Him handle the rest... .

You are free to take care of yourself, now   

[qcarolr]

Here is something Vivek  shared in another thread. It seems important to put it here.

I recently read an article in a book that touched on the subject so sensitive to me - and I think to you too. In it the idea that pwBPD were abused as children was discussed. It said that the most likely explanation is that the person with BPD is genetically predisposed and is hypersensitive to and feels more intensely the normal slights, criticisms and punishments endured by most children growing up. That parents raising an exceptionally difficult child may criticise and punish more frequently and this would generate a tension in family dynamics and is later recalled as abusive.

After the phone contacts yesterday and today from Dd in jail, I feel like I am stuck back in this tension filled dynamic -- it feels abusive to her and abusive to me. I have been pondering this since her call early this afternoon. That I 'put her in  jail'; how could I do this to her, she has done nothing wrong, she does not deserve this, she will die in jail.

I find myself trying to convince her these things are no true. Well, I am coming to remember that these are my truths -- not hers. What she is saying to me is what she believes. She has no bond set - I cannot get her out even if I wanted to. She was begging me this morning to bail her out - she has a place to stay - she will not contact me - I can 'have' gd . I told her I am not bonding her out anyway and that her status shows no bond.

Our county is under flood warnings - 3rd day today of rain. We have gotten the whole year's average rainfull in 36 hours. The city is closed down. So there is no court today or tomorrow at the jail to set bond or give her the charges. She must feel really stuck.

For me, I am so relieved she is safe and dry. The parks where the homeless live are all under water right now. I do not know where they have gone.

For me, there is such relief in the positive shift in gd's behaviors. She is filled with joking, playing games, doing crafts, running in the rain... .It has been awhile since she has done any of these things. And some of it comes out of my being able to give her some undivided attention. I am able, emotionally, to do these activities with her or next to her. To be present in her space.

DD is so far away from me, and has been most all of this year. And after being 'back' so much of last year. I feel bad about it yet hope for a respite from her intensity. Is there anywhere for her to go from jail - that she would voluntarily  go - other than living on the street.

Have to let go of my desires for her life. She says she wants it to be different. Yet her choices all center around being homeless. Like saying "if I had a car, I would be OK. I could live in it".  I know in my mind this is not a failure as her parent, it is her mental/emotional/cognitive state. I cannot change this for her. Yet I do feel a sense of failing her.

I have hung up on her two of the four times she has called, saying to her that talking with me feels like it is making things harder for her. click.

I know I made the best choice possible turning her in on the violation of restraining order. She and her lawyer will work things out with DA and judge. I have let them know she cannot do home detention here. I have to provide safe and loving home for gd. And for me. And with dh.

qcr  

[qcarolr]

one other thing. DD wants to take one of 'her dogs' when she gets out and moves into a 'sort of camper' with the toothless hippie guy that appeared at our house this week. I know there is intense envy or some emotion because neither of the dogs will stay with DD in her room this past week. Not sure if it is her 'energy' that they can sense. Or if they are more connected to gd who played with them daily all summer. Gd has created a bond with DD's anxious dog so she can independently walk her and calm her. She is a different dog when DD is out of the house now. And DD did not make an issue of this. Not sure why. She always has insisted on her dog at night before, at least alternate nights.

I don't know how to stop DD from ripping this well loved dog out of gd's life. Is it about DD's r/s with me? or gd?  Even a few weeks ago when DD took her dog to park, it did not go well. She growls and lunges at people and other dogs. How do I handle this?

So many questions. have to find patience to wait for things to happen. They never turn out as I imagine. Dh keeps telling me to stop thinking so much about everything for this very reason. I wear him out with my ponderings.

qcr  

[MammaMia]

qcarolr

I know exactly what you are dealing with.  It is terrible when pwBPD put us in a position that requires having them removed from the home and incarcerated... .but you did the right thing.  Your daughter needs help and you, your gd, and dh need relief from the stress.  She is in jail because

she cannot obey the rules but also because of love and concern for her safety and the wellbeing of your family.  She will figure it out some day.

In the meantime, stay strong.  You are a very courageous mother and grandmother.

[Thursday]

Hi Q-

You are right to remind yourself to be patient and wait for outcomes. I'm sorry this has to be so excruciating. Can you calm yourself enough so that you don't hang up on DD? Try to remind yourself, as the phone is ringing, from there she cannot assault you. I think this small thing might help you feel better about yourself. If the phone calls are strictly abusive and upset you too much will you consider not answering the phone?


I think possibly your DD's desire to have one of the dogs is part of the extinction burst... .you said NO and now she is (again, possibly, you know her, not me) finding where you will bend. Making demands is one of her tactics, isn't it?

Consider the dogs as under your protection and consider your DD as needing to take care of herself, not a dog. If she wants a dog, there are free dogs out in the world if she really wants a dog. But I don't think she really wants the dog... .at this point it is something she can demand and she knows what she is asking, she knows it would be hurtful to GD but your DD is in such tremendous turmoil right now. She is flailing about.

Things have really come to a head now, Q. Because they have, now you get some respite. Make use of it somehow, do as you have already started doing and make GD a focus and a place where you can and do make a difference.

Wait for DD's outcomes and use that place, when it happens, as it happens, as a place to reframe your relationship with her. If her plans are for homelessness, only living it will convince her that things could be different. I believe this happened before, didn't it? And she came back into your home and the rules and boundaries shifted a bit, to be more accommodating to her demands, and next thing, you are back to square one or in a deeper hole than before.

I know her perceptions are those of abuse. Our role as balanced parent is to understand where those perceptions come from, to validate them. But we have to remember, these perceptions are those of a person with mental illness, with diminished capacity to see reality, diminished ability to cope with real situations. It requires patience and strength to stand firmly in the face of such dysfunction, especially when we love them.

Thursday

[qcarolr]

Thurday and mamamia - I so get what you are saying to me. It is so hard to have the phone ring 4-5 times knowing it is the window available for DD to call and how abandoned she will feel - that turns into anger either at me or herself (ie. I am not even worthy of talking on the phone). So I answer. Then I am trying to find a space away from GD to talk privately - gd follows me with open ears. So today, I may not answer for many reasons - my state of mind and gd's open ears.

DH is not here to distract gd today. He was called into work on his day off due to flooding. Hope it is minor at the retirement community where he works. He was called in yesterday for a couple hours to another facility to help move things out of ground level apartments. The water table has risen and leaks through foundations. So glad we at the top of a hill. My church, near where dh works, sent an email out yesterday asking for sump pumps.

What keeps coming to mind today is those here with BPDkids in rtc. How hard it is to endure those first weeks/months of resistance and begging to come home. Patience for the acceptance of working in the program to make things better takes time. With my DD, it may take a lot of time. And I have to accept it may never happen. Perhaps she will be a long-term homeless person as many of her friends are. Many of them are in their 30's - 40's and have been living on the streets, resistant to any transition program to join the 'normal' community, for 15+ years already. They work some, steal some, sell drugs some, sit in jail some... .  They may say they want a better life, yet are unable to make it happen.

Is this beyond their conscious choice? Are these limits, that are limits based on my perceptions and values, driven by unseen forces in who they are? Does this just require Radical Acceptance on my part to be in a connection?

I am better able to be accepting of this lifestyle (if I may call it that) with DD's friends. I have other expectations of her. Are these based on meeting my needs, not hers? What are those needs I have and how can I get them met in other ways?

DD has told me this since she was about 15 and her friends were made welcome in our home - to meet her needs for companionship and our needs for a break. That we expect more of her, or different for her, than her friends. Always she felt less loved than her friends. Even at a younger age - like taking a friend camping with us when she was about 10. The family's hospitality to help friend feel welcome was perceived by DD as her being less. No amount of words could dispel this for her. No amount of extra attention to her in these moments.

I burned out in many ways long ago, with periodic renewals of energy. Seeking renewal while DD safe from our home, and we are safe from her unending neediness.

qcr  

[Thursday]

Oh my goodness.

Radical Acceptance - quite the Catch-22 for parents of BPD kids- all of the confusion and what ifs and how? and guilt and self-blaming- yikes. Remember your serenity prayer. If you can maintain your serenity, your wisdom, your DD will be able to, hopefully, figure out how to reach out to you with love. It IS you she calls.

By radically accepting we make the bed and it is up to them to figure out how they want to lay in it.

Is there any way you can answer the phone with GD around and keep it accepting and mellow and supportive with boundaries in place? Zennish? It's hard to know exactly as I don't know the content but imagine there is a long held dynamic that slips into gear when buttons are pushed and stuff gets triggered. Click.

Otherwise, maybe it is best to proceed, only answering the phone when you can based on the parameter of GD not being with earshot. No guilt. Must protect GD.

Or restrict how many times she can call you due to your need for reflection. Let her know what the limit is, what you can tolerate. And let her figure out how to cope.

I can feel your fears and I understand your fears.

Trust your higher power.

Do you remember a long ago discussion about leaning in? This would be a good time to quit fighting it and lean in. Life so AInT fair but what are we going to do? It's still beautiful and worth living on a regular basis!

 

Thursday

[mggt]

Dear qcarol, Does it ever end? So sorry for this recent turn of events hopefully she will be able to get some mental help in jail and at least you know she is safe.  I wish I had some words of wisdom for you but you seem to be doing everything humanely possible for your d .  Concentrate on you gd dh dogs and yourself right now get some much needed rest if you can and know we all here are praying and thinking of you with positive energy     mggt

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[qcarolr]

CREEPY   Put padlock on back gate after man walks into yard looking for DD. Looking for the $40 she owes him. Did not know she was in jail. He wanted me to give her the message, tried to explain where he is staying. I said I have no money, her stuff is with her in jail, and I am not talking to her at this time. His reply, "Oh, it's like that. A long bike ride for nothing". Then he walked back out gate.

He said he has met me - I do not remember.

This has never ever happened before - someone looking for her after no contact for a couple days. My crazy mind is going in all kinds of new directions. Maybe DD has been making some kind of 'plans' this year that are new screwed up with her being in jail with no mom to rescue her. I went online and suspended her phone so any callers get that she is disconnected.

Praying for that angel to find DD and lead her out of this dark place she has gotten herself into. As my dh's sister reminded me today - As long as there is even a glimmer that I will be there for her, she will not allow anyone else in to help her. So hard for me to hear this message. I need to hear it over and over every day.

My T called me today. I had left her a msg about DD in jail. I saw her on Tues while the hippie guy was at my house with DD. So much strength from having this care and prayer.

qcr  

[Thursday]

QcarolR-

Your sister-in-law sounds like she understands.

Curious- you've never mentioned her before. Does she live close by or was this a phone call from another state? Guess I'm wishing someone was there to give you a hug and listen to you in person.

I know we on this board are FABULOUS  but someone in person is even better.

Hope you have a peaceful weekend.

It WILL get easier for you.

Is it still raining? I've been watching the news and it looks horrible!

Be SAFE. I think you handled the man very well. And he left. Good. His comment about well that's the way it is seemed like he was telling himself to leave you alone. Good.

Thursday

[qcarolr]

Dh's sister and BIL are both in early retirement mode. Sis has them traveling every month somewhere. Next week it is a cruise the river in New York City. They live about 4 miles from us. She is the trustee/POA for their mom, in the final phase of Alzheimer's. She puts so much of herself into that, and her grown up S and D. She also worked hard to put the money aside to do this. At times I am envious, since dh and I will most likely work until we just can't anymore. Then I remember she has her own burdens. A good place to practice the acceptance and letting go.

We used to go out to breakfast with dh's brother+spouse and sister+spouse 1-2 times a month. Not really clear why this stopped about 2 years ago. Well now, let me think? That is when DD was allowed back in our home. Maybe our lack of 'tough love' skills isolated us? Yet dh's nephew who is in early 30's is still living at home rent-free, smoking his pot out the back door and complaining about his grocery store job (he was unemployed for a long time before this job - lots of legal stuff in his early 20's including a felony for threats to exgf family at 18... .). We cannot afford to go on the annual Vegas and Mexico trips with dh's brother and sister - they have stopped asking us or sharing about their trips with us unless we ask specific questions. We see them at major holidays. Occasionally sis will have gd over, though she has a couple of mean little rescue dogs that she refuses to keep away totally when gd is there - even when requested. So gd resists going over there. Sis used to have gd once a month for us to have a date night - while DD was out of our house.

Feels so unfair to be isolated from family because of our choices with DD. I have struggle with this on my side too. I have 4 brothers and 2 sisters all in the same general area. Again, we see each other on major holidays. DD feels no love from my side of the family for many years. Well ever since we took a family vacation in a big condo when DD was about 11. Guess our 'normal' was too out of normal for them. They all began to drift away after that. There was a lot of pain and sorrow for how much dh and I suffered from the abusive treatment of DD. And we appeared to just keep taking it. Well, maybe we have just taken it.

Dh has actually been able to share some of his deeper feelings and fears with me yesterday. About how hard it is to put DD out. How hard to stick to the boudnaries that feel harsh to his kind and compassionate soul. He keeps this locked away so well. He covers it with cynicism and sarcasim. Maybe the tragic devastation from the flooding on top of DD's actions -- it is so much to bear.

I know so many of you all have suffered these same impacts with family and friends. So dh and I are slowly reaching out to find new friends and reconnect with some family that are more understanding when they open their minds and hearts to us.

Patience, dh asks me to have patience. To allow things to unroll this week. Then we can figure out what actions are needed to allow us to keep DD from our home. I have not answered Dd's calls yesterday or today. Leaving my phone in my purse. Maybe tomorrow.

qcr  

[MammaMia]

qcarolr

Yes, I can relate to exactly what you are going through with family.  Do they understand that your dd is mentally disordered?  Do they comprehend what BPD has done to you and your dh?  Probably not. It is so easy for us to see the lives of others as so much better than our own, when in fact, most families are dysfunctional in some way.  There is no "perfect" family... .no "perfect" life.

I think people often shy away from what they do not understand.  They abandon families with a BPD loved one just when we need them most.   They do not get that this is an on-going process.  There is no quick fix.

You are blessed to have a spouse for support.  Someone to share your fears with.  We often let pwBPD consume us, but your dh is right to let the situation play out.  You have no control.  DD did this to her self, and she must take responsibility.  Hopefully, she will be able to get some help from the court system to relocate her and monitor treatment.

You are in my thoughts and prayers.  No matter what happens, it will be a step forward.

[qcarolr]

Took DD's call this afternoon. Gd out playing with friends. She is now in dorm pod where they offer classes during week. She did OK here back in August the week before she got sick and I bonded her out. She says she is sick now, has not seen medical.

She is still bringing up wanting to do home detention - don't think this will be offered to her, and we are not willing to support her in this. She does not get it at all. What she says to me does not fit with my memory of life in our home the past couple weeks. Is she just saying the next thing that comes to mind that she impulsively thinks will sway me in some way? The details keep changing - about the delay in her ankle bracelet, in whether she had actually interviewed for a thrift store job or not (not to my knowledge -- she wanted to go, but did not take the application still in my kitchen?), angry exbf showed up at house and SHE got arrested -- well he pressed harrassment charges against her so no-contact is against her. Blah blah blah.

The details are not important  for now. So I try to listen and reply without advice or judmental comments. She said the jail staff told her she has a $10,000 bail. The phone info system still shows no bail set, and there will not be court until Monday afternoon for bond hearing. Did she make this up? She says she will die if she is expected to be in jail 2 months.

Then there was a fight in the background and DD had to go as they lock everyone up - don't know how they do this in a dorm style unit.

I will accept one call a day if gd is not with me.

So much greater tragedy in our community than DD in jail. Great flooding still present and forcasting more heavy rain tomorrow. Thousands have lost everything, communities are stranded with all roads washed out. Still using helicopters today to evacuate people from several mountain towns and search for those unaccounted for. Puts my troubles into a better perspective - my family is all safe and sheltered.

qcr  

[vivekananda]

A time of community disaster is a time of woes and anxiety for all. Try not to let that affect your mood qcr, you are best focussing on yourself and meeting your emotional needs so you can be there for your family.

You mentioned how your family was now more distant to you. That is something that happens... .people don't understand, they feel guilty and sometimes it is just too hard... .then you fall into the habit of no contact. If you want to rebuild that contact and support you can. But you can do it in your own time and on the terms you feel comfortable with.

This is what I believe you have this time for, to rebuild yourself and your family; to re negotiate the boundaries with dd so they support not enable her. Remember to open yourself to the universe and to breathe - be mindful, understand what your emotions are and how you can meet them, so you don't interpret your dd's behaviour as a way of meeting your emotional needs... .that probably doesn't sound right, how about stay out of the FOG, it clouds your vision. If you feel guilty, meet your own needs and forgive yourself - then move on. There is nothing to be gained by going over and over the past - plan for the future, for what you can do.

My formula is mindfulness + compassion + a Plan = happiness (even when you have to hold hurt in your heart for a dd disenfranchised from you)

Cheers,

Vivek    

[qcarolr]

Hi Vivek  -

Trying to gain a more positive outlook. Started new topic  https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=209677.0

As DD settles into a more regulated state, she expresses with clarity her belief she has done nothing wrong, she deserves none of the hardship she is enduring, how could I turn her in as her mom, ... .

Dh and I talked after gd in bed last night about the formula you propose.  We have lots of compassion, which without the mindfulness limits our ability to stick to a healthy plan. We are at least talking openly about this. What our values are, what we can guess about DD values from her actions (we cannot read her mind), and how they seem opposed to each other in every case.

See you on the new topic - qcr  

[qcarolr]

Yes. There is an immense and vast amount of knowledge I have gained. Still working on the understanding and wisdom part.

qcr  

[Reality]

Living to values requires a wisemind ... .I wouldn't begin to try to understand my dd's values. I know that if she were mentally healthy they would be similar to mine.

Vivek ananda,

What do you mean?  Why would your dd's values be similar to yours if she was mentally well?

Reality

[vivekananda]

Gee you ask hard questions Reality ... .

Let's see, I am basing my presumption on the idea that the apple doesn't fall far from the tree sort of thing. I have been reasonably explicit living a life consciously considering values and moral dilemmas and such. I suppose it was because dd was deliberately not brought up with any direct religious instruction. I was conscious of the need to imbue our lives with the sorts of things that one would learn from religious instruction, without the bits that I do not approve of. So, for example, dd has a sound understanding of religions, and things like stories from the gospels. Both dh and I have lived with a commitment to our community life and have been actively involved in community organisations. We have tried hard to actively contribute. The primary motivation for this is a belief in the importance of social equality/equity/justice etc. So dd grew up in an environment where we consciously tried to live according to our values ... .we were, if you like, social activists when dd was young especially.

I know that dd has absorbed these values based on beliefs in equality and justice from her conversations from earlier times. Her own problem is that she doesn't know what to do with them or how to do it, because of her BPD. She would like, eg to be involved with an organisation like Oxfam (a charity that started in UK), but can't commit. When she has bought me a gift, it has often been from an Oxfam shop.

Why did I say wisemind is needed to live with our values? Because it is in our values, I believe that our emotions are expressed. Our values, I believe reflect how we want the world to be, or belief of how everything 'should' be. They are even perhaps an expression of our own emotional needs... .but to live by our values means to be logical... .eg I want the world to be a place where people respect each other, therefore I need to show respect at all times. (of course, my definition of respect here is that broad thing that encompasses a lot more than being polite).

My dd has repeatedly shown that she is unable to achieve her extrinsic goals because she works from her emotional mind. Similarly it is with her intrinsic goals. My beautiful dd wants to be a dutiful daughter, she wants me to be her mum - but she has no contact with me. She wants to be in a relationship, she wants to work, she wants a normal life where she can achieve her potential - but she can't do the things needed to get there. My dd believes she lives life according to her values - but it is her expectation of how the world should be towards her, not how she should be towards the world, that defines her understanding. This I believe is a common misunderstanding of what values are about.

did I answer your question? Gee it's so sad to see things so clearly, to see how to resolve them so clearly and within reach and to watch powerless, unable to do anything. My girl is so beautiful and tries so hard and feels such pain, I feel for her so much.

Vivek         

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[Reality]

My dd has repeatedly shown that she is unable to achieve her extrinsic goals because she works from her emotional mind. Similarly it is with her intrinsic goals. My beautiful dd wants to be a dutiful daughter, she wants me to be her mum - but she has no contact with me. She wants to be in a relationship, she wants to work, she wants a normal life where she can achieve her potential - but she can't do the things needed to get there. My dd believes she lives life according to her values - but it is her expectation of how the world should be towards her, not how she should be towards the world, that defines her understanding. This I believe is a common misunderstanding of what values are about.

did I answer your question? Gee it's so sad to see things so clearly, to see how to resolve them so clearly and within reach and to watch powerless, unable to do anything. My girl is so beautiful and tries so hard and feels such pain, I feel for her so much.

Dear Vivek ananda,

Your beautiful girl... .you understand her so well... .

That first paragraph of yours quoted above is a brilliant description of the core problem pwBPD have with interpersonal relations.  

Thank you for your helpful response.

Reality

I am beginning to understand how important the discussion of values really is.

qcaroir,

Hope you found Vivek ananda's response helpful, as well.

Reality

[qcarolr]

My dd has repeatedly shown that she is unable to achieve her extrinsic goals because she works from her emotional mind. Similarly it is with her intrinsic goals. My beautiful dd wants to be a dutiful daughter, she wants me to be her mum - but she has no contact with me. She wants to be in a relationship, she wants to work, she wants a normal life where she can achieve her potential - but she can't do the things needed to get there. My dd believes she lives life according to her values - but it is her expectation of how the world should be towards her, not how she should be towards the world, that defines her understanding. This I believe is a common misunderstanding of what values are about.

did I answer your question? Gee it's so sad to see things so clearly, to see how to resolve them so clearly and within reach and to watch powerless, unable to do anything. My girl is so beautiful and tries so hard and feels such pain, I feel for her so much.

Dear Vivek ananda,

Your beautiful girl... .you understand her so well... .

That first paragraph of yours quoted above is a brilliant description of the core problem pwBPD have with interpersonal relations.  

Thank you for your helpful response.

Reality

I am beginning to understand how important the discussion of values really is.

qcaroir,

Hope you found Vivek ananda's response helpful, as well.

Reality

Vivek  and reality - yes yes yes yes yes. This is what I need to say, and it is said here so beautifully, Vivek , with your full heart of love for your DD expressed from you awesome intellegence and wisdom.

There is new hope in my heart tonight. Reaching out I am getting gifts back that might help me help DD. She may never know of my input, or be able to acknowdelge it. I am going to give it anyway and pray for the results to be for the good.  I am going to post the details on my 'letter' thread.

qcr