Borderline elderly waif mother

[nevermore]

I had hoped that being elderly would mean my BP mother would become more "normal".  All of the narcissistic things about her have become magnified now that she is nearing the end of her life. She is 86 and has survived life threatening illnesses, accidents and loss of two family members.  Now she is obsessed with her list of things she can no longer do (like mowing her yard and climbing ladders!). She goes over her list of friends and family who have died.  She dwells on her insomnia, panic attacks, lack of appetite and her neediness is about to put me over the limit. She called at 7 am this morning to tell me she had not slept and to go over her list of dead friends and waif complaints.  She is extremely sensitive to medications so there is no help there. She was recently given a renewal of her anti anxiety prescription and eventhough it is the same thing she has taken for years it looks a bit different and she swears it makes her feel horrible and anxious.  She cannot accept that this is normal as one ages and she too will decline as everyone on earth has if they were lucky enough to have a long life.  My life is becoming miserable with each phone call and whiney speech about "Why me?"  She starts nearly every sentence with "I'll be dead soon anyway".

[Phoenix.Rising]

  nevermore,

Much of your posts resonates with me.  My mother constantly talks about her physical pains and has done so my whole life.  She does have some real physical conditions that are problems, but I don't see why she has to tell me about them every single conversation we have.  I have physical aches and pains, too, but I rarely mention them.  My mother has also repeatedly talked about when she will no longer be here, as in dead.  It seems strange to me at times.  And she takes all kinds of medication.  I don't keep up with her medication, nor do I want to.  She has had a problem with pain medication over the years from what I can tell.  She might be a drug addict.  I don't know.  I'm just relating.

Now about you... how can you take care of yourself?  What are your boundaries?

[nevermore]

My boundaries... .that is a good question. I will NEVER let her live with me. I tried that once and ended up selling my home and moving away. I will never let me make me furious.  When she rages I will walk away. I may not go back ever if it happens again. I will not let her sabatouge my new healthy lifestyle. I have began eating very healthy and have lost 20 pounds. I am certain she would love to see me fail but I won't.  She will never divide me and my only living sibling.  Basically I have emotionally taken every arrow from her quiver. She has no power over me.  She once held a huge amount of power because I cared so much what she thought of me. I care not.  She is selfish, mean, narrow minded, spiteful, resentful and miserable in her own skin.  I am not.  Those are my boundaries.

[Phoenix.Rising]

I will NEVER let her live with me. I tried that once and ended up selling my home and moving away. I will never let me make me furious.  When she rages I will walk away. I may not go back ever if it happens again. I will not let her sabatouge my new healthy lifestyle. I have began eating very healthy and have lost 20 pounds. I am certain she would love to see me fail but I won't.  She will never divide me and my only living sibling.  Basically I have emotionally taken every arrow from her quiver. She has no power over me.  She once held a huge amount of power because I cared so much what she thought of me. I care not.  She is selfish, mean, narrow minded, spiteful, resentful and miserable in her own skin.  I am not.  Those are my boundaries.

Thank you... good stuff.  Your comment about never letting her live with you is interesting to me.  My mother is almost 70 and I've wondered what would happen if she could no longer take care of herself.  I do not talk to her that often, and see her even less, and when I do see her I am ready to come home after a day or so.  I don't believe I would fare well living with her, and I hope I don't have to consider that.

I was reading a post of yours from a while back and I believe it was you who mentioned your mother looked like a movie star.  My mother had movie star looks when she was younger.  The woman I dated who I believe has BPD was very good looking.  They seem to get a lot of what they want due to their looks.  My mother and my ex spend an inordinate amount of time on their physical appearances.  Very detailed about it and on a daily basis... would not leave the house hardly without being made up.  I don't think there is anything wrong with wanting to look good and with wearing make-up, but it is obvious that this is extremely important to them.

That reminds me of something.  I am a male and I wore my hair long for a while when I was younger.  My mother would not want to be seen with me in public unless it was pulled back.  Image was extremely important to her.  I hated that on some level.  And I do care about what I look like.  I am not being vain, but I am an attractive man.  I suppose a lot of the effort these women put into looking 'perfect' is to cover up that they feel like crap on the inside.

[zone out]

Nevermore

My elderly uBPD mother does exactly the same thing - she has survived major surgery and a serious chronic health condition.  Still independent in her mid 80s - better than most people her age and still able to do her own housework.  Instead of focusing on what she can do she instead is obsessed with things like not being able to clip the hedges etc.  She is also obsessed with thoughts of her death - "you never know when our last phone call will be", "I don't have long left" - she has been using this one for 20 years, especially when she is impatient for me to get decorating etc done at her house.  It used to affect me and I used to worry about her state of mind, but I have just heard it so many times it sounds like a broken record.

Every twinge or ache gets visited on me and yet when I try to suggest things which might help, I get the "when did you get your medical degree" treatment.  She refuses to go to the doctor, generally takes her meds but can suddenly form a grudge against a tablet.  I have come to the realization that there is really very little I can do to help her apart from sit there and look sympathetic.

I really do not know what I will do when she is no longer able to look after herself.  I dread it, I just try to bury my head in the sand for now.  Some elderly people are willing to have their houses adapted or move to more suitable accommodation but I think an elderly BPD would be harder than most to persuade. I know the rationale is that you should discuss these things well in advance, find out their wishes etc but any tentative attempt so far has resulted in a major blowout.  I really am not very brave, just a case of taking each day at a time and not thinking much about the future.

Regards

Zone out

[Phoenix.Rising]

I really am not very brave, just a case of taking each day at a time and not thinking much about the future.

I would say you are very brave by sharing your story and being willing to work on yourself and your relationship with your mother!  This stuff is not for sissies.

[zone out]

Thank you Phoenix Rising - It has sure been an up and down week-end with her.  We seem to limp alone from one crisis to the next.  I have been trying to muddle through on my own but I decided over the week-end to get some therapy.  This site is great and I think the combination of this and some individual therapy would get me through.  In the case of an elderly BPD when you just don't know what lies ahead, you need to try and keep yourself strong.

I read up on some of the info here on depression and I ticked a lot of boxes - things I was not aware of as being a factor such as a turmoil of thoughts in my head, loss of focus and concentration etc.  Seems long term anxiety can lead to low levels of seratonin which can result in depression.  This was news to me thanks to the site - I'll be paying a visit to the doctor.

It is like a jigsaw really, one piece at a time.

Best wishes to you in your journey

Zone out

[Phoenix.Rising]

Zone out,

Thank you, and best wishes to you, too.  Yes, I struggled with depression in the past more than once.  I needed medication for a while, but no longer have to take it.  It sounds like you are taking the proper steps.  Just be gentle with yourself, and don't forget to do things that you consider fun.

[nevermore]

I appreciate hearing others experiences with an elderly BP.  My life walk with my mother has been so complicated. Until her first rage at me I worshipped her. I didn't realize how self absorbed she was.  After the rage I was devastated.  I remember crying and saying "I wish I had died while she still loved me."  After the second rage (and I am talking shark eyes, screaming at me and later claiming not to remember it) I began to understand that she had something wrong with her.  After she played a part in my brother's suicide I cut off contact with her and moved away.  During that time away I was able to get a clear look at the relationship and build my walls.  When I returned two years ago I was a different person. I was strong and independent and fully aware that she will never change but I can change.  It has been complicated but it continues to change with time.  I know that I will be okay even though I will always grieve for the mother I never had.

[zone out]

Nevermore - the thing I really don't understand is how the blind rage can fly up so suddenly over something so apparently insignificant.  To be honest I just take all the crazy accusations with a pinch of salt, mother just lashes out with the most hurtful things she can think of at that minute.  I would never 'wake the sleeping dog' by challenging her on any of the issues during one of he calm times but I have done so during a subsequent rage and guess what - she denies everything and says the complete opposite thing.  So the 'you are scheming to take my house and put me in a home' converts to 'I hate the house, you can burn it down if you like'.  WHAT!  After the first accusation I was worried enough to consider going to a solicitor but now I think its all just barmy.

That said, I emerge from each of these incidents in a pretty shaky state.  It would be my preference just to run out of the house when she starts but then she is flailing around and I am afraid of her hurting herself - I only heard of BPD a few months ago - If I had discovered all this when she was younger I would definitely have taken a greater stand.  Good on you - gaining strength and independence, that is good to hear and motivation for the rest of us.

Zone out

[Phoenix.Rising]

I believe their 'reality' is quite different from ours in many instances.  It is an illness, however that doesn't justify abusive behavior.  This is why boundaries are so important for us.  And like Nevermore said, we can take control of our own lives, and we are!

Zone out, how can you protect yourself when she starts 'flailing around'?  It sounds like a good idea to leave, but you said you are concerned she will hurt herself.  Is this because she HAS already hurt herself, or it this just something that she has threatened?

[zone out]

Phoenix Rising

She would never consciously hurt herself - she is far too obsessed with her health.  I would have no worries about her self harming at all.  However when she is in a rage she is so out of control/or so skilled at manipulating (I haven't worked out which yet) - she actually flings herself down, always conveniently when the settee or a big upholstered chair happens to be right behind her.  It is very odd behavior for an elderly woman - just exactly like a toddler tantrum.  Strangely enough when my children were small she was horrified at the merest hint of a tantrum.  Perhaps in her normal times she has no recollection of what she does, but I am still a bit suspicious of the possibility of manipulation.  She knows it gets a reaction from me - even if I have been sitting quietly trying to ignore the screeching, I immediately jump to attention and start fussing over her, trying to get her back on her feet. hmmm - any suggestions welcome.

Zone out

[targetonmyback]

she actually flings herself down, always conveniently when the settee or a big upholstered chair happens to be right behind her. 

You're not alone in witnessing such a display. My dad would stagger back against a nearby wall or into a comfy chair and clutch at his heart. We all ignored him, yet he carried on doing this little display right up until he was too sick with Parkinson's to work up a rage, even though the family had ignored it for at least 30 years.

Nevermore: I really like your boundaries. I need to get me some of those.

[Phoenix.Rising]

Zone out, Is she able to get herself up?  If so, and you believe she is acting and/or manipulating, then I would suggest removing yourself from her presence if she is raging at you.  Here is something I learned on the Staying Board:

Demands>:)isengage

Abuse>Boundaries

So, if there is verbal abuse directed at you, then your boundary could be to physically remove yourself from her presence.  This also puts the responsibility on your mother to learn to self-soothe.

If you're not sure how to create boundaries, think first about what your values are (what is acceptable to you and what it not, for instance) and build your boundaries around your values.  Your boundaries are not there to change someone else.  We don't have that capacity.  They are there to protect YOU. 

[nevermore]

My mother is obsessed with two things. She is obsessed with the idea that she will die soon (she is 86) and she takes a "why bother, I'll be dead soon anyway" stance. She is also obsessed with her health. She never misses a check up or medical test.  She has been having panic attacks and "depression" lately. It is exhausting to be around such negativity but you have to stay strong and preserve the quality of your life.

[Breathing new air]

It is funny with this board. I was just thinking about this this am with my waif/queen mother. Whichever role is more convenient that day. She has always used her health and when we were younger her beauty. I think now she uses her health exclusively because life has taken many of her looks.  When we got out of line at all in her eyes, she conveniently fell or tripped or had a new ache or pain. It is worsening as she ages, maybe because she has lost a lot of her cards she used to play. Or I recognize it now and do not want to be pulled in. The drama is always there. They thing that is really hard right now is on top of it all, the only time she calls is when she thinks she can get something. It is really disgusting me.  How do you deal with the anger as it comes up? I mean, the what human could be that way, especially a mother, feeling?  I have been setting boundaries and really at this time have little contact but the more I realize about what things are truly like there is a anger/ hurt :'( I am trying to let go of.   Anyone have suggestions or is it again we will have good and bad days.

[nevermore]

What can you do with the anger?  I found out the hard way what holding on to the anger can do to ME. It didn't faze her. She is oblivious. When my brother called to tell her he was going to kill himself if she wouldn't help him out financially and help him avoid becoming homeless she told me she laughed at him.  She didn't say it as if she regretted having laughed. She said it like she still thinks it is funny.  He did take his life and the hate I had for her consumed me. For years I held onto it as if it were a testament to the love I had for him.  The amount of hate for her had to be equal to the love I had for him.  As I said, she was not even aware of my feelings (or anyone else's).

After holding that hate for ten years I had gained about fifty pounds, suffered from high blood suger, high blood pressure and suffered from fibromyalgia.  I was only hurting myself.

Recently I stopped hating her.  I don't like her and I never will and I will always hate the way she treated him and the way she continues to behave but hating her hurts me. I am eating healthy, have dropped 20 pounds so far, my blood pressure and blood sugar and going down and I am enjoying life far more.  My brother will always be in my heart but I don't need to honor him with perpetual hatred for the mother who was a terrible mother to him.

She still says and does things that raise my blood pressure but I quickly let it go.  I have to.  I have a wonderful husband, sweet daughters and five grandchildren who fill up my life and if I let the anger push my buttons I might become negative like she is and no one wants to be around negativity.  I hope this helps. It really is a self preservation decision.

[zone out]

Breathing New Air - I know what you mean about the anger - over the years it has largely been replaced by a sense of resignation but earlier in the week I brought uBPD mum to a hospital appointment - when she complained of some pain not related to the appointment she was advised to contact her own doctor.  In her waif like voice she remarked "well it's very difficult when you don't drive" - HUUUUUH - I always make myself available to drive her to each and every appointment, always have done without hesitation no matter what I have planned!

Targetonmyback - thanks for sharing, I used to think it was only me dealing with an octeganarian (spelling!) toddler.  I could not help but smile when I saw your username and graphic! - mine is based on aspiration rather than reality!

Nevermore - This is a good thread you started -  I think our mother's would get on famously, they would have so much to talk about.  My mother has going on about 'not having long left' for close on 20 years.  Sometimes the aches, pains and health complaints go into such a tailspin it is hard to keep up.  And as you say negativity is very draining, I often end up taking long walks at odd times - as I walk I imaging I'm leaving it behind!

Phoenix Rising - Thank you for your wise advice.  I will look up these references.  You have struck a chord with me re why I have difficulty setting boundaries (apart from the obvious backlash).  I think I have lost touch with my real self, I will have to get back to the core of who I am in order to establish my values.  I have been manipulated and controlled like a puppet for so long I hardly know who I am.  People would regard me as a very flexible/adaptable/go with the flow sort of person - I can see why!  My head is all over the place but I have some therapy starting - that should help.

Best regards

Zone out  

[Breathing new air]

Thanks so much. I try with the the anger, but right now everything is new and I am still going through it. My T said that I am making progress. I just know that sometime when I think about her I am so mad at everything it makes it hard.  Today is one of those days due to a voicemail message. Usually I try to stay away. Thanks for the support. Just knowing I am not alone helps so much. 

[zone out]

Nevermore

This is such a sad situation to have had to come to terms with - my heart goes out to you.

As you say by holding on to anger we will only harm ourselves.  I too have started eating healthily - as well as the health benefits it gives me something positive in my life that I have control over.  Being part of a happy family unit is definitely a salvation.  This enmeshed BPD type behavior has been in our family for several generations - I am really determined that it stops now - I want my daughters to have the freedom to be themselves and live their own lives.

Zone out

[Phoenix.Rising]

Exercise can help with anger, along with talking about it.  However, it doesn't help me to talk about it in a way that keeps me in a victim mode, if that makes sense. 

If you have any spiritual beliefs or inclinations, one of the best pieces of advice I've been given was to pray for the person you are angry with for several weeks and then re-evaluate.  Pray that they receive the good things that you wish for yourself.  This can be hard to do if you feel some hatred, but in my experience it did provide some relief.

It also helps to view my mother as a sick person, which she is.  I probably wouldn't berate someone sick and dying with cancer in a hospital.  I'm not advocating to accept abuse, however. 

[nevermore]

Are your elderly waif mamas widows?  Mine is and she is constantly saying "It never entered my mind that he would die and I would be alone."  I asked what she thought would happen. She said "I guess I thought we would die at the same time."  She is a VERY intelligent person. How can she not have thought about being a widow some day?  She also talks about how hard it is not having a car. She has NEVER driven.  She says she is saving her money to pay someone to take care of her if she ever needs it.  I find that insulting since I have been taking care of her since I was a little child (she would wake me up to tell me about her panic attacks when I was a toddler).  Still, I say nothing because I know I could never take care of her if she needed live in care. I tried once after she had an accident and I only made it six weeks. That experience brought on our moving out of state to get away from her.  My username is one that I made up after going no contact for a couple of years. 

[Phoenix.Rising]

My mother is definitely a waif type, but she can be a queen, too.  She is married to my step-father, but they have never seemed close to me.  She nags at him a lot and has been criticizing him for years.  She made it almost impossible for me and my sibling to have a relationship with him.  She stood very firmly between us.

She divorced my real father over thirty years ago, but still talks about how she will always love him and never love another man like him, but she also has fierce resentment about losing that marriage.  She still talks about it like it was yesterday.  Very odd, and sad.

How can she not have thought about being a widow some day? 

I remember reading about pwBPD having a hard time planning for any type of future event and being able to see and understand a realistic vision of the future.  Almost like their concept of time is different from ours.  Have you read anything about this?

Nevermore, I'm sorry she was telling you about her panic attacks when you were a toddler.  That is not right.

[Breathing new air]

Nevermore, yes my mother is now a widow. Things for the family were better before dad died because honestly he took the brunt of her attention. I still don't know how he did it for 45 years. I don't really remember much prior to 5, but I do remember being the shoulder my mom cried on when dad had affairs and even going through his pocket to find the notes from his lovers at about 6 years old, by the time I was in 3 or 4th grade I was reading them myself. Before that she read them to me to show how horrible dad was to her.  Now I just shake my head at how messed up it was. And until a few years/ months ago, I excused it and thought it was normal. Everyone must have a family like mine. Mom told me. 

[targetonmyback]

I'm interested to know what you guys anticipate happening when your BPD parents finally pass the finish line.

I couldn't get to my dad's funeral because I'd just had back surgery and live overseas. Instead I was asked to write the eulogy. I spent a lot of time on it because it was important for my mum and aunt to get a good funeral accomplished. I did my best with lots of positive stories and read it on Skype to mum and sister. Sister said "Oh that was PERFECT! Dad would have been SO HAPPY!"

And my reaction was to think "Pity he's not alive to admit I did something well."

What has happened in our family is that my sister has stepped right up to fill the BPD shoes that our dad left. It is now much MUCH worse. omg. When he died I had such a sense of relief - never thought I'd wish he was still alive to keep a tin lid on my sister.

[nevermore]

If I didn't need to attend a service to support my only living sib I would not go. I have heard about her funeral for twenty years.  She has everything picked out and planned and I have no interest in watching her final show. It will be a relief for it to be over. I don't wish anything bad on her but her daily whining and negativity just wear me out.  Every day I hear her list of all of her friends and family who have died.  She is 86.  When you live to be that old you outlive most of your friends and family.  She is shocked by this.   

[zone out]

Yes my mother is a widow too.  My dad died far too young when i was in my teens, but wile he was here he was brave enough to take her on when he felt strongly about something, especially her wish to keep me a virtual hostage like the Princess in the Tower.  Once I got a bit of freedom, there was no hope of her containing me.  Needless to say my wings have been seriously clipped over the years  but  I will be eternally grateful to him.  When my dad died, she was consumed in the most terrible anger/grief/anxt - she never once asked how I felt and I had to listen to her over and over digging up old grievances against him.

As Scarlet Phoenix commented on the BPDs attitude to the future - my mother has this absolute dread of 'how she will end up' - I suppose losing her independence which is quite understandable BUT she refuses to have any practical modifications to her living arrangements which would help protect her independence for longer.  Her house is not suitable for an elderly person but it would take a braver person than me to try and shift her out of it.  Mother spends so much time festering about the past and dreading the future, she misses out out on the here and now.  I can think of several occasions when I had arranged to bring her out somewhere - she worked herself into a temper about some random thing and refused to go.

Confusing!

Zone out

 

[Phoenix.Rising]

I have heard about her funeral for twenty years.  She has everything picked out and planned and I have no interest in watching her final show.

Every day I hear her list of all of her friends and family who have died. 

It is bizarre reading this because it sounds so much like my mother.  She has been talking about her funeral for a long time.  She is almost 70 now.  She gave me an envelope years ago with all the details about her funeral... what songs and who she wants to sing them, etc.  Is that normal?  I don't even know.

I also hear on a very regular basis about who has died that she knows and there is no telling how many obituaries or links to obituaries she has sent me.  It almost seems like a weekly occurrence.  WTH?

[zone out]

I have my mothers eulogy written in my head - it is not that I wish her any harm.  It is my way of reminding myself that there was another side to her -as a younger woman, she had a good career and made a valuable contribution to the world.  When her time comes I will not have to think about it, it is all there.

I know that some research findings suggest some BPDs improve as they age but that is not my experience, more the case of getting more and more introspective and self centered.

Zone out

[sophiegirl]

Hi, I also have an octo BPD mum and unfortunately I am an only child and she now lives next door. I am going through such a bad time with her. I could have written the same posts above she is a self obsessed nasty old lady, I have tried to feel sorry for her and understand but whats the point?. I have been practising my boundaries and carefully worded replies but it seems all for nothing as this evening she let rip with a whole bunch of spiteful lies and nastiness. The thing is I never get used to it, it always hurts - why should a mother with an only child be so nasty?. I walked into a trap and wasn't prepared and ended up shouting back at her and walking out.

Todays flare up is all about xmas and my husbands relatives coming to stay, we were so looking forward to them coming and now I'm gutted. I hated xmas as a child and still 3 months to go. I have really no idea what to do next.