when there is someone new

[livednlearned]

I've been dating someone coming up on a year. He has three kids ages 19, 16, and 14. I have S12.

S12 has met new guy a dozen times, usually only for 5 minutes or so. I have met each of new guy's kids, but again, only for 5 minutes or so.

I don't really know what to do now. S12 has said he doesn't want to know new guy, says he will never like him. When I think about getting closer to new guy's kids, it makes me feel... .tired. I don't feel ready for something like that.

New guy keeps saying he doesn't want to push things too fast for me, but he kinda keeps bringing up opportunities that seem out of tune to me. He asked me if S12 and I wanted to spend Thanksgiving with him and his kids. Um, no. Not at all. I barely know them, their dad has only been divorced a year, and S12 would be an only child among 3 siblings in their home. It seems like a set up for a trainwreck.

I guess there are two issues. One is my own issue: why don't I want to blend our families? And two: what's the best way to make S12 feel respected and safe in all this?

Would so appreciate any insight or advice anywhere here has about their own experiences.

[eeyore]

If I really liked you, then after a year I think I'd want to try to have some holiday time together. However having a blended holiday when you haven't spent time together before would be problematic.  Maybe try starting with smaller things. 

As for your son not liking the new guy.  You might want to talk more with your son about it.  He's so used to it being the two of you and for him that represents stability as opposed to the volatility you had before.  It sounds like fear that your new bf might be like his dad.  I would think time spent getting to know him would be helpful for the future even if you don't spend holiday time together (blended family). 

[Forward2free]

Yours and Mine is never easy.

I introduced my new guy from the start to my kids, sisters, friends and parents - and probably due to something you said inadvertently to me, I felt good about it. You asked me why I was trying to protect my children from hurt. When I applied it to getting to know his daughter (18) and him knowing my kids (6 and 8), I didn't want to introduce them all to someone who was not necessarily going to be around for too long.

I was trying to shield everyone from another of my mistakes... .what if I get this wrong again, what if I don't want to be with him anymore, what if I hurt my kids by having someone around and then he leaves etc... .

Is it possible you are still finding it hard to see the future with new guy and therefore can't see a benefit in getting to know everyone? 

It doesn't sound like he is expecting you to parent his kids so you won't be introduced as the new mom figure, but the longer you leave it, the more serious the relationship and then the harder it is to get to know everyone as friends. Just my two cents worth.

Your son is most likely fiercely protective of you, as my DS6 is of me. Even now he tells me that he is "starting" to like new guy, but he isn't sure yet. It will take him time to learn to trust new guy, just as it took you time. He is learning to like/love someone just as you did and that can't be obtained after a few meetings. As to how to make him feel respected and safe, I don't know. I just love my kids openly and make sure we still have our time without new guy and I make sure that they are heard and their feelings are validated. I also make sure that when new guy is around, I don't change towards them. The me that they see when we're alone is the same me that I am to everyone else too and mum-me is the same anywhere.

I also read that it's healthy for your kids to see you in a healthy relationship and you can model what it should be like, instead of the way they used to see your relationship. That makes me feel at ease and I am so glad that they can see healthy conversation and healthy arguments and healthy silence.

Wanting to spend time together for the holidays sounds completely normal. Maybe he doesn't want to choose spending time with you over his kids or visa versa, and all being together makes it easy? I'd suggest picking something low key like a bbq at home or in a park so that you can all feel relaxed and not have to be at a formal table all together which could be tense.

[livednlearned]

Is it possible you are still finding it hard to see the future with new guy and therefore can't see a benefit in getting to know everyone?

Yes. I think that's a part of it. I have one foot in and one foot out the door. And I'm not sure what that means, if it's legacy attachment/intimacy issues or a sign that he's not someone I want to be with forever.   On Saturday, we were in a coffee shop and bumped into someone I know, who also knows new guy. While I was talking to my friend, new guy kept putting his arm on my shoulders, and on my back. It made me so tense and super uncomfortable. I lapsed into my old habits and didn't say anything, just stewed about it. And it was bugging me on Sunday when he came over, which is when he asked about having me and S12 over for the holidays. The thing is, I talked to him a few months ago about public displays of affection, telling him I wasn't comfortable holding hands or kissing and hugging in public. But then he does something like that, which seems like the worst version of PDA -- while I'm talking to someone I know. I dunno. It just felt tone deaf. But then yesterday, when I was more quiet than usual -- not rude or anything, just a little preoccupied -- he asked me if I was ok.

I don't know what to do with this kind of thing. It's not a red flag exactly, but I think it's a sign of something. I guess the honeymoon stage is over. I'm starting to feel irritated with what I see as codependence. He keeps trying to help me solve problems that I don't need help with. And I secretly think it's one of the things that probably contributed to his ex wife's depression.

So yes -- with these kinds of thoughts and feelings, and S12 not liking new guy, it makes me wonder if spending more time together is worth the effort.

It doesn't sound like he is expecting you to parent his kids so you won't be introduced as the new mom figure, but the longer you leave it, the more serious the relationship and then the harder it is to get to know everyone as friends. Just my two cents worth.

He definitely doesn't expect me to parent his kids, nor would I step into that role voluntarily. I can't imagine us ever living together, not while the kids are in school, and that's another 6 years. I guess I'm not seeing our relationship change from what it is right now  

Your son is most likely fiercely protective of you, as my DS6 is of me. Even now he tells me that he is "starting" to like new guy, but he isn't sure yet. It will take him time to learn to trust new guy, just as it took you time. He is learning to like/love someone just as you did and that can't be obtained after a few meetings. As to how to make him feel respected and safe, I don't know. I just love my kids openly and make sure we still have our time without new guy and I make sure that they are heard and their feelings are validated. I also make sure that when new guy is around, I don't change towards them. The me that they see when we're alone is the same me that I am to everyone else too and mum-me is the same anywhere.

We have a strong bond, there's no question. We went to a middle school retreat through church a week ago and people commented on how good our relationship is. A lot of the behavior that other parents are experiencing, S12 doesn't display. Either it hasn't shown up yet, or we just have a different relationship because of what it's been like for us. Also, I validate him, and that really changed our dynamic for the better.

I also read that it's healthy for your kids to see you in a healthy relationship and you can model what it should be like, instead of the way they used to see your relationship. That makes me feel at ease and I am so glad that they can see healthy conversation and healthy arguments and healthy silence.

How much do your kids remember? S12 seems almost happy to go to N/BPDx's. And he comes home and chatters away about the movies they watched, and what they did together. I sometimes wonder if S12 even remembers what it was like, whether he's forgotten or suppressed those memories.

Wanting to spend time together for the holidays sounds completely normal. Maybe he doesn't want to choose spending time with you over his kids or visa versa, and all being together makes it easy? I'd suggest picking something low key like a bbq at home or in a park so that you can all feel relaxed and not have to be at a formal table all together which could be tense.

The way I left it was that I needed to let it sit, and think about it. He also suggested S12 and I come over for dessert so it wasn't the whole dinner. Honestly, I think smushing our families together right now is only going to make it worse.  :'( My gut says that S12 will think, I not only don't like new guy, I don't like his family, and I have to do this crappy thing on Thanksgiving when I could be with other family friends that I like.

Gah.

[Waddams]

Just my .02.  In general, I don't think it's wise to bring kids along and co-mingle with a BF's kids when one is not yet totally committed to the relationship.   Kids will either get attached and then hurt when you move on, or they'll sense you're not all in, and they'll wonder why, and they'll resist as well.  My opinion is it's better to only see a BF/GF when you don't have your kids with you until you are 100% committed to said partner.

Introducing the kids after you've reached that commitment can still be tricky, blending families can be very hard, but to be honest, it doesn't sound you are ready for any of that in this relationship. 

[livednlearned]

Introducing the kids after you've reached that commitment can still be tricky, blending families can be very hard, but to be honest, it doesn't sound you are ready for any of that in this relationship. 

I'm actually not sure whether it's about new guy, or whether it's my own PTSD or attachment issues in general. All the significant men in my life have been controlling and abusive, and even though new guy doesn't appear to be (at all), I'm having a hard time believing that could possibly be true. Maybe my son is picking up on that.  :'(

When I think about taking things to the next level (like living together or getting married), I panic. Big time. As long as I focus on the moment, and how it feels right now, I'm fine.

This is probably one of those issues that just gets bigger. 

[DreamGirl]

My oldest son didn't like any of the boyfriends. My youngest could have cared less. It was a lot like your situation - 5 minute meetings (that were inevitable after a year). My current husband was the first one who became a fixture in our life (9 years ago). The oldest has never really warmed up to him. That's OK.  

Observation: my oldest struggled in his relationship with his dad. My youngest did not.

Statistically speaking, livednlearned, there is a 20% success rate in re-marriages when there are teenagers involved. In my stepmom's support group, one member is in fact remarried with four teenagers (she has three and her husband has one). They have actually kept their separate residences.  So while they are listening and adhering to the needs/wants of the children, they are not completely sacraficing their own and they have a really good therapist who has helped keep their marriage together. There is another member in that same group who leaves on the weekends her two teenage stepdaughters come to their house - it just the solution that works better for them. Welcome to 2013.

I am also not a big fan of the term "blending" families (or the expectations surrounding it). We're all individual people who don't need to be all mushed together to create some concoction of what a nuclear family looks like. We get to create our own family portraits - and it doesn't have to be all inclusive of everyone involved. Sure, sometimes you do dual-family things together... .but sometimes you don't. That's OK.

I'm also not picking up on any urgency for you here. So don't sweat it, just like you said. I also think you already know your answers... .you've developed some pretty great skills in guaging this stuff.

As far as your son - I feel like your S12 is just a little afraid. Do you think his fear is valid?

Sometimes we also have to accept that he may not like anyone you date. Is it a top priority for your dating someone? That your son like him?

Your son gets to not like him if he doesn't want to. It might make better sense if he didn't like him for reasons other then he's his mom's boyfriend though. He really might think about giving him a fair chance - when he's ready to try. 

Based on my own experiences, with how your son feels and your apprehension, I wouldn't go to Thanksgiving Dinner (or dessert) at their house as the first meeting between households. Maybe next year.

My suggestion would be neutral territory (not your house or his) with a lot of distractions.  

~DreamGirl

[livednlearned]

My oldest son didn't like any of the boyfriends. My youngest could have cared less. It was a lot like your situation - 5 minute meetings (that were inevitable after a year). My current husband was the first one who became a fixture in our life (9 years ago). The oldest has never really warmed up to him. That's OK.  

Observation: my oldest struggled in his relationship with his dad. My youngest did not.

Statistically speaking, livednlearned, there is a 20% success rate in re-marriages when there are teenagers involved. In my stepmom's support group, one member is in fact remarried with four teenagers (she has three and her husband has one). They have actually kept their separate residences.  So while they are listening and adhering to the needs/wants of the children, they are not completely sacraficing their own and they have a really good therapist who has helped keep their marriage together. There is another member in that same group who leaves on the weekends her two teenage stepdaughters come to their house - it just the solution that works better for them. Welcome to 2013.

I am also not a big fan of the term "blending" families (or the expectations surrounding it). We're all individual people who don't need to be all mushed together to create some concoction of what a nuclear family looks like. We get to create our own family portraits - and it doesn't have to be all inclusive of everyone involved. Sure, sometimes you do dual-family things together... .but sometimes you don't. That's OK.

I'm also not picking up on any urgency for you here. So don't sweat it, just like you said. I also think you already know your answers... .you've developed some pretty great skills in guaging this stuff.

As far as your son - I feel like your S12 is just a little afraid. Do you think his fear is valid?

Sometimes we also have to accept that he may not like anyone you date. Is it a top priority for your dating someone? That your son like him?

Your son gets to not like him if he doesn't want to. It might make better sense if he didn't like him for reasons other then he's his mom's boyfriend though. He really might think about giving him a fair chance - when he's ready to try. 

Based on my own experiences, with how your son feels and your apprehension, I wouldn't go to Thanksgiving Dinner (or dessert) at their house as the first meeting between households. Maybe next year.

My suggestion would be neutral territory (not your house or his) with a lot of distractions.  

~DreamGirl

You people are wonderful, you know that? I feel so fortunate I found this site.

Who else would understand like people here do? Thanks for your wonderful wisdom, to all of you. Thanks DG for making weird stuff seem so normal! I have this vision that I'll be living in my own place until S12 heads off to college, so it's great to hear that some people just do it this way.

20% success rate for remarriages with teens in the house. Yeesh.

I'm deciding no to Thanksgiving dinner together. We're just not there yet. I don't like the pressure, and I especially don't like using holidays to set timelines on things that have their own pace.

About S12 and his feelings toward new guy. I had an old bf who is a middle school teacher, and I KNOW he would have been able to crack S12's code. I reconnected with old bf about two years ago and fired up all the old feelings long-distance. Nothing came of it, thankfully (long story). Old bf had an intuitive way about connecting with kids, and had some wonderful insights into my son without even meeting him. So applying this to new guy -- I think even though S12 said he didn't like the idea of me dating, I think he is also sensing that new guy just isn't the kind of grown-up my son connects with.

Not sure about neutral territory, either. Instinctively, I don't think S12 is going to warm up to anyone in that family. And I'll validate those feelings. I've said it's ok that he doesn't like new guy, but I expect him to be respectful. I think that's fair.

Maybe we're just going to be in the slow lane with this stuff.

[livednlearned]

Thinking, too, about whether it matters to me that S12 likes who I date... .

Yes. It's important. More so than I've been letting myself admit. I've felt instinctively that S12 and new guy are just too different, and it's probably why I'm hesitating so much. Not just Thanksgiving, but about thinking new guy is forever guy. New guy has this air of super confidence. S12 is a quirky, inventive undercover genius type guy. Very wonderfully goofy, colors outside the lines kinda guy.

[DreamGirl]

Maybe we're just going to be in the slow lane with this stuff.

Slow lanes are good.

Really good.

[Free One]

Maybe you just aren't ready for a committed r/s, and that's ok. Even though you have been out of the r/s with your son's dad for awhile, you have still been dealing with the fallout. You only very recently have had a closure of sorts.

You BF has only been divorced for a year, and you two have been seeing each other for a year? Maybe he hasn't really had the chance to recover from his divorce either.

Of course I am speculating on all of this; but on the other hand there are statistics out there about how long it actually takes to heal after a divorce, and they are usually measured in years. I'm also a bit old fashioned in my beliefs that is healthier to heal and recover before starting a serious r/s... .all that stuff about how you have to learn to be happy alone before you can be happy in a r/s.

Maybe you should be asking yourself why you are in this r/s if a long term commitment is something you are not interested in right now?

[Forward2free]

I also read that it's healthy for your kids to see you in a healthy relationship and you can model what it should be like, instead of the way they used to see your relationship. That makes me feel at ease and I am so glad that they can see healthy conversation and healthy arguments and healthy silence.

How much do your kids remember? S12 seems almost happy to go to N/BPDx's. And he comes home and chatters away about the movies they watched, and what they did together. I sometimes wonder if S12 even remembers what it was like, whether he's forgotten or suppressed those memories.

My kids don't remember too much, DS6 was 1.5 years old at the time we separated, but he remembers the fighting and never any shared parenting stuff - there wasn't any anyway. But it means that he's never seen a relationship in action in our home. DS8 was 3.5 years old so she's in much the same boat. They both have fun with dad and enjoy spending time with him and dad's girlfriend. They feel happier that I have a boyfriend I think, even though DS6 hasn't warmed up to him completely, but he doesn't hate him.

I do wonder what they will use to model their own marriages/partners on if they don't get a healthy example at home. Will I be setting them up to fail if I don't try?

I understand what you mean about PDA's and it would have annoyed me too. I have been getting annoyed about my new guy being around and fussing around me, won't sit until I am at the table, wants to pull my chair out, wanted to help me grab a few weeds from the garden etc. I think it's difficult to share my space and I have been avoiding standing next to him so that he can't hold my hand or put an arm around me. He mentioned it the other night, and I told him I am too busy to stand still for long enough... .not exactly telling him how it makes me feel... .

It sounds like you have made a decision about Thanksgiving and that's great that you have peace about what you want to do. That should make everything a bit easier?

  

[livednlearned]

Maybe you should be asking yourself why you are in this r/s if a long term commitment is something you are not interested in right now?

I've been so focused on the courage it took to be in a new r/s. I think I'm beginning to realize that there is new stuff coming up, and it's kinda unpleasant. Like you said, why am I in this if I don't want a long-term commitment?

When we talk about the Thanksgiving situation, I plan to bring up how I feel about living together and marriage. It's kinda weird to bring it up even though neither of us have ever talked about it, but I think I need him to know that I don't have any interest in ever marrying again. And don't want to live with someone until S12 goes to college.

There's something else happening too. I'm starting to feel hypersensitive about anything new guy does that seems possessive. I think it's codependence -- the unhealed stuff he's carrying from his marriage. He seems to intellectually understand codependence, but he isn't recognizing how it's showing up in our r/s. And I don't want to guide him through it 

[livednlearned]

I understand what you mean about PDA's and it would have annoyed me too. I have been getting annoyed about my new guy being around and fussing around me, won't sit until I am at the table, wants to pull my chair out, wanted to help me grab a few weeds from the garden etc. I think it's difficult to share my space and I have been avoiding standing next to him so that he can't hold my hand or put an arm around me. He mentioned it the other night, and I told him I am too busy to stand still for long enough... .not exactly telling him how it makes me feel... .

Your new guy and mine are cut from the same mold, I think. And I'm not sure it's just intimacy/attachment stuff coming from me. I'm thinking it's actually healthy for me to want some boundaries. We went walking tonight, and it's getting cold, so my hands were in my pockets. So he put his arms around my shoulders. We were both walking dogs and his arm was bugging me, making all this noise on my jacket, making it hard for me to just walk. He could sense that I was distant, and so he kept stopping, telling me I needed a hug. I finally said, "Why not just say that you want a hug, instead of thinking I need one?"

Maybe this is the beginning of the end. 

I do want S12 to see a healthy r/s, but like others have said, I need to make sure this is a healthy relationship. Maybe it's not? Last thing I need is a guy who is controlling in a nice way. Out of the frying pan into the fire. 

[Forward2free]

I'm thinking it's actually healthy for me to want some boundaries.

Absolutely! Keep reaffirming them and remember that you don't need to explain why.

We went walking tonight, and it's getting cold, so my hands were in my pockets. So he put his arms around my shoulders. We were both walking dogs and his arm was bugging me, making all this noise on my jacket, making it hard for me to just walk. He could sense that I was distant, and so he kept stopping, telling me I needed a hug. I finally said, "Why not just say that you want a hug, instead of thinking I need one?"

It's never ok in my books for someone to tell me how I feel. They need to own their own feelings as I own mine.

Maybe this is the beginning of the end. 

This doesn't have to be the end, don't forget that you don't need to marry him or even date him long term. Maybe use this experience to reaffirm your boundaries and see if he is able to respect them etc? If you still enjoy his company of course! I've had to push back a number of times and take us back to light instead of heavy relationship. So far he's respecting my boundaries once I reaffirm them... .

I do want S12 to see a healthy r/s, but like others have said, I need to make sure this is a healthy relationship. Maybe it's not? Last thing I need is a guy who is controlling in a nice way. Out of the frying pan into the fire. 

I completely agree. It would be interesting to find out why your son doesn't like him. Perhaps he's picked up on something particular that you have/haven't identified?

[momtara]

I think your feelings are legit.  Say you didn't have kids and were single.  You might not be ready for a big step.  Having kids and having past drama are reasons even more to take it slow.  If it feels inappropriate, don't do it.  We all married someone with a PD despite red flags, so we need to trust our emotions more now and wait until we're sure about things.

[livednlearned]

Absolutely! Keep reaffirming them and remember that you don't need to explain why.

It's a lot of work! I've told him before about some of this stuff, but I find that I need to repeat myself. That's part of what is bugging me.

It's never ok in my books for someone to tell me how I feel. They need to own their own feelings as I own mine.

Maybe there is also something here that's deeper? When I talk about whatever went on during the day (yesterday it was discovering that N/BPDx filed a motion for contempt against me), and I share it with him, I've noticed that he feels the need to console me. And I'm actually far enough along with this stuff that I don't really need that. It's making me feel guarded about sharing because it seems to trigger his rescue mode, and then it feels top down, and I notice I feel resentment.

This doesn't have to be the end, don't forget that you don't need to marry him or even date him long term. Maybe use this experience to reaffirm your boundaries and see if he is able to respect them etc? If you still enjoy his company of course! I've had to push back a number of times and take us back to light instead of heavy relationship. So far he's respecting my boundaries once I reaffirm them... .

I think I was letting myself get swept along by the honeymoon stage, imagining us together long term. And for some reason, I see the codependent stuff so much more clearly so I'm putting the brakes on in my own head.

It would be interesting to find out why your son doesn't like him. Perhaps he's picked up on something particular that you have/haven't identified?

I wonder that too. Not sure how to figure it out, tho.

[livednlearned]

I think your feelings are legit.  Say you didn't have kids and were single.  You might not be ready for a big step.  Having kids and having past drama are reasons even more to take it slow.  If it feels inappropriate, don't do it.  We all married someone with a PD despite red flags, so we need to trust our emotions more now and wait until we're sure about things.

I agree, but after I was single for 2 years, I realized that I was fearful about being in a r/s. I have my own avoidance/attachment issues, and if I listened to my feelings, I would've said no to intimacy. It's hard to trust your feelings when you're working on getting healthy, because some of those emotions are FOO related, and some of the negative feelings are actually ones you have to work through. What I'm trying to trust are my boundaries, and asserting them, even if they seem weird or trivial. And that means going slow enough to see paint dry. Still noticing that I hold things in, though. Why didn't I just tell him to take his arm off my shoulders?

I think this Thanksgiving stuff made me realize that no matter how much I've shared with new guy about my past, he doesn't truly understand. And my wariness about sharing all of it with him is probably because I know it will trigger his rescue stuff. And if there's one thing I've learned in the past three years, it's that I don't need a rescuer! I learned that I cannot be broken, and that I'm much stronger than I thought I was. Maybe my son can sense some of that?

I really appreciate everyone letting me think this out loud.

[DreamGirl]

I don't why - but this sparked a memory of an old post (from and old member).

From PDQuick - talking about a similar subject matter that makes so much sense to what you're experiencing, LnL:

There is a plain that happens here on this forum that doesn't get discussed, and there are many here that are sitting in the same chair that I am in. I can think of several people who I know, that have the same scenario that is happening in my life. Lets throw this out there on the table, see if it resonates with any of us "Seniors."

There is a place where you have learned the lessons from the disordered relationship. We see that we were drawn in more from our own insecurities, and vulnerabilities, more so than the draw of the disordered. We see that it was us that was clinging to something that was never there, rather than seeing what really was there. We were holding onto a concept that only existed in our minds, rather than in the reality of the relationship. We come to an understanding of the dynamics, and the process. We see our part, and we have worked on our inadequacies. We have learned from the past.

Now, with the past fully analyzed, and the lessons squeezed out of us, we are in the present. Not wanting to repeat the past, we look and feel ever so carefully in this present. The wounds have healed, but the pain is still fresh enough for us to remember. We feel nothing consciencely, but just below the surface, the memories of the pain are still very real, and its those memories that keep us right where we are. Stuck between the reality, the potential, and the past.

We are in limbo.

We try to chose what we deem as "safe." The luster isn't there, and the excitement is missing. We stay away from anything that gives off the slightest hint that it, or they, might have any potential to hurt us. We step softly on the ground, to make sure that it wont give way, and we taste very carefully, anything to ensure that it isn't bitter to our senses. We can tend to be over protective of the very things that we want... .our happiness.

In our new life, and our new minds, we have assembled those eggshells we once walked on, into a protective outer covering, protecting us from the world around us. There is a new role for those eggshells now, and it resembles what its original intention is. We are our own yolks, and we are waiting to hatch, to shed our shell, and reemerge as a living, breathing, separate entity, capable of experiencing life, rather than continually analyzing it, and sheltering ourselves from it. We are here incubating.

My struggle lately is one of wanting to crack that shell, and come out, but still, the memories of the past influence my future. There is a song that describes my feelings, yet the meaning is flip flopped. I spent 13 years in the disordered relationship. I thought I loved a person I didn't like for so long, that I am still rebuilding my own faith, and my own trust in myself. I fooled myself for a long time, and my thoughts were so screwed up, that I had myself thoroughly convinced of something that was not even close to true. The song I referred to is "I see you in everyone."

I still see disorder in lots of things in my life. I see it in alot of people in my life. I see it in myself. I see my ex in parts of everyone I meet, and even in that man in the mirror. Hell, I was steeped in her toxic tea for 13 years. I cant help but have remnants of her still in me. Cover yourself with crap for that long, and it takes more than one shower to get it off.

I am teetering right now, inside my egg, wanting to break free of the confines of my surroundings, yet still feeling secure enough inside that the blows that I lay upon the outer covering arent hard enough yet to bring the first crack in my encasing shell. I know, because I feel it, that there will soon come a time, where I will throw caution to the wind, and feel like I am strong enough to handle the outside world enough to go out and emmerse myself in it. My desire to live is starting to overcome my desire to not be hurt. In the past year, the only chances I was willing to take were the ones where I knew it was safe. It wasnt a calculated risk.

There is a place of freedom, just beyond where I am currently at, where I can take what other people throw at me, and not hold it against them, because they are who they are, and I cant do anything about that. I cant change them, only accept them. Sure, I can talk to them, and try to help them, but it is ultimately their decision. I wont hold them personally responsible for my feelings on it, because it is their decision. I will just learn more about myself because of those feelings they induce in me. This process will help me figure out who I am, what I want, and what I dont. I welcome feelings of all types right now, because they are mine, and I am tuned into them, rather than reacting to misconceived feelings, like I did most of my adult life.

Yet, here I sit, still covered in my shell, wanting to break out, but still not bad enough to deliver the fatal blow the the covering that has protected me for close to two years. The dynamic is just that. We know what we did wrong, we know the lessons, and the wisdom. We see the twisted thinking that comes here on a daily basis, and yes, we can deliver advice because we are on the other side of the process. Some of us are disconnected from the pain, because we have healed. We remember it, thus, why we still remain covered by our own shells. We are still struggling, not with the disorder that unites all of us, but with ourselves. We are incubating.

[LynnieRe]

As I am dealing with the BPDex and the BPDd age 16, it is interesting to watch. 

Apparently the ex is in the anger phase with the daughter, and won't see her and it's mutual.  I am no longer of use to either one of them because they are not fighting over me.  He has gotten a new GF, so we don't see or hear from him much, as he's in the clingy phase over there. 

I have sat my BPDd down, and told her that we both agreed (no matter what is the truth) that it is time to see other people.  That he is seeing someone and so am I.  We have both showed her the FB profiles of the ppl we're seeing, in order for her to get used to them as humans.  They are not rhetorical.  She is accepting of them in a rhetorical sense, but she has no desire to see them. It has been, this time, less than a month.  I am used to keeping her out of the limelight of a new relationship, but her father has to text, call, or talk about his GFs all the time, part of the magical falling in love part of BPD. 

My d simply wants consistancy in her life, and to feel loved by her parents no matter what.  She is also afraid that another relationship will upset the apple cart.  Since I'm not in any relationship long term, and I know her dad's will last approximately 3-6 months and implode like the others, I'm convinced that giving her a consistant routine is the best thing possible. 

Let your child be your child, give him his life.   Calmness and consistancy is the name of the game here.

Both of them need a boundary.  The child has to use manners, the BF has to learn his place in the child's life is limited. 

[livednlearned]

I really, really appreciated this. Thanks for bringing it back up to the surface.

There is a place where you have learned the lessons from the disordered relationship. We see that we were drawn in more from our own insecurities, and vulnerabilities, more so than the draw of the disordered. We see that it was us that was clinging to something that was never there, rather than seeing what really was there. We were holding onto a concept that only existed in our minds, rather than in the reality of the relationship. We come to an understanding of the dynamics, and the process. We see our part, and we have worked on our inadequacies. We have learned from the past.

Now, with the past fully analyzed, and the lessons squeezed out of us, we are in the present. Not wanting to repeat the past, we look and feel ever so carefully in this present. The wounds have healed, but the pain is still fresh enough for us to remember. We feel nothing consciencely, but just below the surface, the memories of the pain are still very real, and its those memories that keep us right where we are. Stuck between the reality, the potential, and the past.

We are in limbo.

So nicely said.

My desire to live is starting to overcome my desire to not be hurt. In the past year, the only chances I was willing to take were the ones where I knew it was safe. It wasnt a calculated risk.

This describes where I was at when I hit the two-year mark after leaving N/BPDx.

There is a place of freedom, just beyond where I am currently at, where I can take what other people throw at me, and not hold it against them, because they are who they are, and I cant do anything about that. I cant change them, only accept them. Sure, I can talk to them, and try to help them, but it is ultimately their decision. I wont hold them personally responsible for my feelings on it, because it is their decision. I will just learn more about myself because of those feelings they induce in me. This process will help me figure out who I am, what I want, and what I dont. I welcome feelings of all types right now, because they are mine, and I am tuned into them, rather than reacting to misconceived feelings, like I did most of my adult life.

This is where I feel I'm at now, what feels like the brink of freedom. Or, if this is freedom, maybe it's is just constantly filled with the teeter tottering between welcoming feelings and reacting to them? It feels like the work now is about applying new tools to the thousands of new situations that come up in our lives, all slightly different.

You know when you learn a new sport and for the most part, you can get your body to do what you want it to do? Say it's a sport that involves a lot of balance.

I feel like I'm there. I feel like I can balance myself, even if someone tries to knock me over. But I can't quite imagine all the scenarios in which I might lose my balance. I can't picture all of the moves a person could use on me. My challenge is to focus on the skills I'm building, and not ruminate too much on what could happen.

That's what Thanksgiving triggered for me. It's one of those moments that makes reactive feelings flare up.

[Forward2free]

Thanks DG - the PDQuick reflection was exceptionally well timed and thought of, thank you!

I feel like I'm there. I feel like I can balance myself, even if someone tries to knock me over. But I can't quite imagine all the scenarios in which I might lose my balance. I can't picture all of the moves a person could use on me. My challenge is to focus on the skills I'm building, and not ruminate too much on what could happen.

That's what Thanksgiving triggered for me. It's one of those moments that makes reactive feelings flare up.

You're right, you have all the skills you need to get through this, it's about trusting them and minimising your fear of the unknown.

Thanksgiving might suck, you could turn up for dessert and your worst fears might be realised and there might be a food fight and brawling teenagers everywhere.

The relationship might end suddenly. Or, might end before Thanksgiving.

OR you might turn up for dessert and the kids might hit it off and become party buddies and you might feel relaxed and happy on a holiday that might trigger thoughts of thanksgiving's before or being alone memories?

Maybe meet at an icecream bar and if the first 5 minutes go well, you can stretch it out whilst you're both comfortable, if not, spill your icecream on your shirt and go home... .to change into something comfortable and spend the rest of the day with just the 2 of you :-) You are free to leave at anytime... .

Either way, it's just a day in your life. You should make it want you want it to be and not get too caught up on all the zillions of things that might happen.

Best New Years for me was a random decision at 8pm to pack up my 2 small kids and travel to a house party 40 minutes away for pool fun and laughs with friends. I was confident that being alone was my choice and I was happy about it, but being alone sucked. I am so glad I plucked up the courage to go and mingle on a day that I was "happy" to wallow in misery alone.

[livednlearned]

Either way, it's just a day in your life. You should make it want you want it to be and not get too caught up on all the zillions of things that might happen.

The day would be ok. It's whether or not it's worth going through, you know? And I feel good knowing that I'm just not there yet.

[Free One]

When we talk about the Thanksgiving situation, I plan to bring up how I feel about living together and marriage. It's kinda weird to bring it up even though neither of us have ever talked about it, but I think I need him to know that I don't have any interest in ever marrying again. And don't want to live with someone until S12 goes to college.

Yes, and this may very well just be your next step. Part of a healthy r/s is being honest with our partner, even about things that may hurt them (only now do I understand how much I avoided this... .). You have a responsibility to this man (or any man you date) to be honest about your intentions. His reaction may also give you more insight about where he is at and how he is able to deal with "no".

[Free One]

Thanks for sharing such a beautifully written post, DreamGirl.

From PDQuick - talking about a similar subject matter that makes so much sense to what you're experiencing, LnL:

T My desire to live is starting to overcome my desire to not be hurt.

I watched a show about East Germany last night. They were at a museum that documented the escapes people made from East Germany at Checkpoint Charlie. The curator said almost the exact same thing, "Those who risked escape reached a point of where their desire to live surpassed their fear of death."

To us, being hurt is death. What we have been through feels so intolerable, so unbearable, so tortuous that we would do ANYTHING to avoid it again. Even keep ourselves in a state of mental oppression or loneliness to avoid the pain again. Think of how long some of those residents of East Germany lived under oppression, and loneliness, cutoff from their loved ones on the other side. It took them time to get to the point that it was worth risking death to live. In some ways we have reached that point before in our r/s - we reached a point where it was worth the risk of leaving so that we could really live.

Maybe now what you are feeling is disappointment? Freedom isn't feeling like what you thought it would?

[livednlearned]

Maybe now what you are feeling is disappointment? Freedom isn't feeling like what you thought it would?

Probably a little of that. Also questioning if I want to work through codependent issues with another codependent person. It's tempting for a codependent person like me to swoop in and tell him how to fix himself 

Every time I check that impulse, I feel so free. It feels healthy.

Maybe I'm someone who is happy on my own. Or, it might be easier being happy while having lots of space. Or, and this is probably the biggest piece -- maybe I'm scared about someone trying to control me again.

[slimmiller]

I've been dating someone coming up on a year. He has three kids ages 19, 16, and 14. I have S12.



I guess there are two issues. One is my own issue: why don't I want to blend our families? And two: what's the best way to make S12 feel respected and safe in all this?

Would so appreciate any insight or advice anywhere here has about their own experiences.

Hello,

Im kind of jumping into the convo here and cant add too much from what has been said but this kind of jumped out at me reading it. I think your son maybe senses your reluctance and thats his hesitation to open up to your bf. Kids seem very intiutive in these matters and I think if the  rs was completely congruant to you and clear in your mind, the part about your son accepting or not accepting would resolve itself.

Plus another thing is the fact that in 4-6 years your son will be an adult and his opinion will still be relevant but not nearly as much. So is his opinion relavent? Yes  certainly but point is he may not like or approve then but he will be moving forward as well and then what mommy does is more her proragitive.

[livednlearned]

I've been dating someone coming up on a year. He has three kids ages 19, 16, and 14. I have S12.



I guess there are two issues. One is my own issue: why don't I want to blend our families? And two: what's the best way to make S12 feel respected and safe in all this?

Would so appreciate any insight or advice anywhere here has about their own experiences.

Hello,

Im kind of jumping into the convo here and cant add too much from what has been said but this kind of jumped out at me reading it. I think your son maybe senses your reluctance and thats his hesitation to open up to your bf. Kids seem very intiutive in these matters and I think if the  rs was completely congruant to you and clear in your mind, the part about your son accepting or not accepting would resolve itself.

Plus another thing is the fact that in 4-6 years your son will be an adult and his opinion will still be relevant but not nearly as much. So is his opinion relavent? Yes  certainly but point is he may not like or approve then but he will be moving forward as well and then what mommy does is more her proragitive.

That really insightful! I hadn't thought of it that way. I feel mostly comfortable with new guy, but one thing I've noticed is that even after a year, I am still very watchful about signs of control, especially the codependent kind. Maybe S12 can feel that.

[DreamGirl]

livedandlearned, I sense a fear in you. 

I wonder if it's a balanced one.

This is all quoted from this thread alone:

I'm starting to feel irritated with what I see as codependence

I think it's codependence -- the unhealed stuff he's carrying from his marriage.

He seems to intellectually understand codependence, but he isn't recognizing how it's showing up in our r/s.

I see the codependent stuff so much more clearly so I'm putting the brakes on in my own head.

Also questioning if I want to work through codependent issues with another codependent person.

I am still very watchful about signs of control, especially the codependent kind.

[Free One]

Probably a little of that. Also questioning if I want to work through codependent issues with another codependent person. It's tempting for a codependent person like me to swoop in and tell him how to fix himself 

Every time I check that impulse, I feel so free. It feels healthy.

Maybe I'm someone who is happy on my own. Or, it might be easier being happy while having lots of space. Or, and this is probably the biggest piece -- maybe I'm scared about someone trying to control me again.

Is it possible that their is residual guilt for not being able to "fix" your r/s with your ex that is drawing you to this r/s? Do you see this one as one you can "fix"; a challenge or redo of sorts?