Mr. Independent =P

[Bulgakov]

 I have seen some posts in the dating board about new awareness and sensitivity to neediness and other red flags. It has me thinking. I have always been such an independent guy. Something about doing things by myself just almost has a thrill to it. I grew up as a single child, though I had a close relationship with my step sister. Still do, even though I think the relationship with my uBPDgf has probably put some strain on it. Even then, I remember wanting to get away on vacations and such for my own little adventures. I still love spending time with my family and that has been more important lately since one of my parents is recovering from a scary situation. It all makes it seem so strange that I have been in this relationship where my individuality has literally been stripped. It is seen by her as disinterest in herself and interest in others (other women). Once you all get the independence back, maybe you cling to it and are sensitive to neediness for that reason? Were we all like this before the relationships and now we crave it more than ever? And threats to that feel more extreme? I can just tell that I have not been focusing on me. Dealing with other people is very straining when I feel that way. I like taking trips by myself and meeting new people even if just for one night of conversation and music or something like that. "professional stranger" is a fun phrase I once heard that I almost thought described me. I guess this relationship has made this need for independence almost feel wrong. Is it hard to go back to such independence? Right now I feel like I could just leave and sit and look at a mountain all day. Such things don't seem possible to me right now because I can't imagine wasting precious time I could spend doing nothing before I have to tend to someone else's hours. I would hate to end up being bored with those soft distractions of mountains and trees because there is not some kind of chaos surrounding them. Heh.

[Lady31]

I don't think there is anything wrong with independence.  In a relationship - all things in balance.  Of course in these relationships, it is a serious threat and big no no... .but in healthy ones you would hope would not be a major issue.  Key word again is balance.

I am the same way as you, but maybe not quite as social (need to work on that actually.)  I am currently alone and loving it in Miami Beach right on the ocean.  Absolutely beautiful.  Staying the month with family/friends visiting off and on, but made sure to have a lot of alone time too.

Live it up!

[willbegood]

I haven't focused on myself in a long time. Just been too busy tiptoeing around trying to stay out of trouble LOL. I'm not too worried about getting independence while I'm on my own but I do wonder how I'll be in future relationships. I've always been in trusting relationships where we can go do our own thing and not have to worry about craziness when we get home. I wonder if I've developed trust issue. Or if I'll hesitate about going out and enjoying myself.

[Bulgakov]

Yeah, I have almost forgotten what it is like to just go out and not have to explain anything to anyone. I think that might be a basic need for me. Trust is something I miss. I also wonder if I have always been a little hardwired to be like this in a relationship or if this relationship is going to make me see any signs of worry or neediness as way more extreme than they really are. Hard for me to keep track of who I was before this relationship. I think I need to find that again.

[triangleheart]

It's hard to say. I'm an independent person and never feel lonely when I'm alone, but in a relationship, I am conscious about being respectful of the other person's needs for closeness. Meaning, I do not need heaps of "alone time" or to spend lots of time with other people without my partner. My life is an open book so it doesn't bother me to include a partner in time I spend with family and friends. I am also the type of person where I can be in the same house/room with a partner and feel close to them but be doing my own thing.

It really varies among people. Those who like closeness do better with people who also like closeness. Those who are like lots of alone time do better with the same. I think being independent and wanting to be alone for significant amounts of time are two different things. I'm a very independent thinker and have no problem being alone, but closeness and relationships are much more important to me than alone time. They are what add quality to my life.

If you are with someone that wants "too much" closeness or distance, then IMO you shouldn't judge the other person as "too needy" or "too independent", it's just a bad match and you should find someone who shares your philosophy more.

My BPDXBF was both very distancing and very needy. I would've liked balance. I've found that people who can't make their needs clear and who blame their partners for not having the kind of relationships they want are difficult to be around. Communication is the key-- as is compromise!

[frustrated b/f]

I put my goals up on on a whiteboard in my office. Right now, my top goal is just trying to get back to where I was BEFORE I met my uBPDgf! I was independent, adventuours, confident, and overall generally sucessful day-to-day life!

I'm struggleing to get back to that point!

[Bulgakov]

Thanks, all, for the advice and what not.

triangleheart: I think I am more like you than I first described. I am very social and comfortable with my extended family. Lots of little cousins and family get togethers for birthdays and xmas and the like. I love that stuff. I think this dynamic has just left me so reliant and codependent that I crave some sort of independence, which is something I have always felt comfortable looking for because my family has always trusted me and the people around me have always trusted me. But I do agree with you about some differences being there even when discounting the disorder. She very calmly said to me recently, "I love you, but I don't think we work." I think she will try to recycle, but it gave me a bit more of a sense of security, like okay, sometimes things can be understood between us. It is just so hard to get to that point lately. That being said, I think it will take me a little bit to get comfortable being social at the same point I used to be.

frustrated b/f: I would love to find who I was before this relationship. I know for a fact that I am responsible for a lot of that loss and that some of my faults contributed to the negative dynamics. I'm ready to crawl out now and I do have a whiteboard. Maybe it is time I make my own list of goals. Although that whiteboard is hanging in "our" living room, so maybe a notebook would be better.

Thank you. All of you.

[Clearmind]

Is it independence or self protection?

I also been a very independent person – it was my façade to protect me from harm and from vulnerabilities. Being independent does not necessarily mean I was immune to BPD – in fact it’s quite the opposite. Once in a relationship my “independence” and sense of autonomy went completely out the window – I found it very hard to be separate from my ex. Much of this has to do with my childhood conditioning and being required to look after everyone’s needs but my own.

Traveling life solo is easy! I tend to shield myself from others as a way to avoid life stresses rather than dive right in and manage my reactions.

[Bulgakov]

"Is it independence or self protection?"

I'm glad you bring this up. I think there is a definite element of self protection going on. I grew up very shy and it often frustrated me to interact with people. Maybe not often. I'm very capable of being social. I was not a happy camper in early schooling, particularly junior high school. Just very frustrated with everything (society I guess), even though my I have always felt comfortable with my family. A friend of mine said my mom asked why I was so negative. He assured her that it was just my concerns with society. He knew I wasn't beating myself up, that I just perceived a lot of BS in the system and institutions I was beginning to learn about. But it was always hard for me to open up about things and I think that comes from frustration and shyness in my childhood. I study a lot of psychology and anthropology. I love it, but sometimes I worry it gives me an excuse to look at people as animals to study. I say that somewhat sarcastically. Anyways, I'm definitely mixed up about the issue. Hopefully something therapy can help me hash out.

[triangleheart]

It's something I'm also trying to figure out about myself. In my rel with my BPDX, I felt kind of suffocated when we were together because he wanted my full attention all the time, even when my children were around. But when we weren't together (we didn't live together), I often felt like he treated me like I didn't exist. He never spontaneously called me or stopped by during our "non-scheduled" days. He was irritated if I called him outside of our "scheduled" phone time. It's not like he was out doing his own thing with friends/family when we weren't together, and I never contacted him excessively. It was just odd that he felt so imposed upon.

Now that I'm single again, I'm also trying to figure out what my needs for independence and closeness are. In the BPD rel, I didn't have any say over it; he carefully controlled our time together and apart, as well as how I was to behave during those times: pay him 100% attention when together (and I felt smothered), then leave him 100% alone when we were apart (and I felt abandoned). It was very artificial and controlled, and it's left me wondering what I actually do want when I'm in a normal relationship again.

[Clearmind]

I hear you Bulgakov, I also grew up very shy and would say I only really started to come into my own when I was in 2nd year University. Something clicked, and to this day I don’t know what it was. However what remained was my sense of self protection and preference for being on my own.

I’m introverted now, which does not mean I am shy – I simply need to regain energy by spending some alone time. So its more balanced now and I understand my personal needs.

When we find it hard to open up often we gravitate towards people who open a lot! Enter a person with BPD who are boundary-less and pry open our vulnerabilities. Its then we feel like we have met “The One” because no one on this planet has been able to do that! Well my friend, there is a reason why they can do that – its called mirroring – they mirror your ideal self back at you and you feel wonderful.

Its seems very confusing right now however the answers are quite simple. However it is a process and much of it has to do with delving back to before we met them and reflect and heal from some of our own issues that we tried to mask with a Borderline.

Borderlines, when not raging are super fun, child like, boundary-less and really into us – unfortautnely its also not reality and more of a fantasy world for us both!

I have a feeling you will be just fine – you are heading in the right direction.

The key to therapy, once we heal from some old wounds is to look at what a healthy relationship is.

triangleheart, touched on an interesting subject – Borderlines are very smothering and then there are extremes – we fight for the middle ground to avoid enmeshment however its inevitable.

A healthy relationship/person permits a partner to be independent, yet because there is trust and admiration the closeness never escapes the relationship. This is not the case with a BPD. You show some independence and they will likely go look elsewhere for another partner. It’s a roller coaster.

Often, partners of Borderlines also have issues with emotional availability – meaning they are not and can fear intimacy (reminding ourselves sex is not intimacy). Great book Bulgakov and triangleheart that I think you will both get a lot from “He’s Scared, She’s Scared” by Carter and Sokol. Awesome book!