Evaluating VLC/NC option

[Tygeress]

I recently sent a letter basically explaining to my enDad the sorts of emotional manipulations my uBPDm was responsible for when I was a child.

Unfortunately, he showed it to my uBPDm, and she responded with a couple of e-mails of her own basically saying "I'm sincerely sorry for all the PERCEIVED inappropriate behavior I have inflicted upon you, but some of it was your fault, I feel like you violated my trust, and I don't think we can really have a relationship anymore."

Right now, I'm basically grappling with the question of whether I want to keep perusing a healthy relationship with her or not. I'd like to think that with therapy and time, she can become more self-aware and we can at least find a middle ground.

On the other hand, I'm just tired of it all. I feel like I don't have the emotional energy to devote to it, and part of me wonders if that means I'm being a "bad person" and if I'm just making her sense of abandonment a reality. The guilt at the thought of just going VLC/NC for the rest of our lives is hitting pretty hard.

I wonder if I should just take a break for a few months, but I also wonder if that's just putting off the question.

I plan to talk to my therapist about all of this, but I guess I just had to organize my thoughts.

What really irks me about the e-mail she sent (and has sent in the past) is that she seems completely unable to give a straight-up apology. It's never an apology, it's always an "I'm sorry, but (you were responsible for this this and that etc)"

If she would just give me a straight-up apology and a commitment to working towards improving our relationship, I think I could begin to accept, even work towards forgiveness. But she just seems incapable of really taking responsibility for these her actions.

I'm sure many of you have gone through the exact same thing. Just feeling a bit tired and worn out. 

[DreamGirl]

Guilt and shame are two terribly difficult emotions for a person with BPD to endure. So they whip out their BPD toolbox to cope.

"Well, you did x, y, and z"

"I'm sorry that you perceived it wrong"

It's hard to do, but I try to see it as a coping skill rather then a personal shot at me. When it's your parent, it makes it really really hard.

I like the idea of a break. We shouldn't make rash decisions when we are all caught up in our own emotions.

Tygeress, do you think your mom can ever really give you want you want?

Accountability?

Regret?

An apology that encompasses either?

~DreamGirl

[SeekerofTruth]

I hear you T.

Just to be able to hear a straight-forward and emotionally congruent feeling of remorse, regret, or contrition with two simple words "I'm sorry" pause... .

is like so normal to hear and to be spoken between healthy individuals.  My wife (separated/divorcing) rarely mentions these words and almost never in a timely manner.  It's like 3-6 months after she threw my red leather chair down the stairs and scratching it... .that she says "I sorry for doing that".  And that's about it.  It's never like, "i don't know what got into me, my emotions just flooded me and I became overwhelmed with feeling angry at you... ."  If the matter gets pressed for insight, I am likely to hear blame "well you were in my face yelling"  (ah no i wasn't i was in the basement using the copy machine, or I was outside) and it's almost always about "my anger problem" in which i am never allowed to express anger, no matter how appropriately it gets expressed (and of course, i've been known to fiip my lid every once in a while verbally in choice of words and tone).  Over the long hall, i think it does damage to us in so many subtle ways in terms of messing with our inner balance, sense of confidence in relating to reliable signals, that get stuffed or met with drama and vindictive punishment, passive-aggressiveness, denial, projection-blame, and so on and on.

DreamGirl:

I am curious.  Can you please elaborate the gist of why or how come "guilt" and "shame" are so diificult for BPD to endure?  At times i wonder if my wife has a conscience when her frame of reference and filters become so constricted and her actions so hurtful.  And then every 3-6 months i might get an apology which feels heartfelt and sincere, but now i am wondering if that is also part of moving in and out, back and forth between some type of Karpmanian triangle, or attempt to recycle/reconcile only to drop me one nothc further the next time hell and pain come knocking.

Guilt and shame are two terribly difficult emotions for a person with BPD to endure

[DreamGirl]

DreamGirl:

I am curious.  Can you please elaborate the gist of why or how come "guilt" and "shame" are so diificult for BPD to endure?  At times i wonder if my wife has a conscience when her frame of reference and filters become so constricted and her actions so hurtful. 

Here's a clinical perspective when it comes to the DSM:

Severe PD types, such as schizotypal and borderline, have been found to have significantly more impairment at work, in social relationships, and at leisure than patients with less severe types, such as obsessive-compulsive disorder, or with major depressive disorder in the absence of personality disorder.

And they plan to define all of these using constellations of these 6 criteria:

• Negative Emotionality: Experiences a wide range of negative emotions (e.g., anxiety, depression, guilt/ shame, worry, etc.), and the behavioral and interpersonal manifestations of those experiences
  
  Trait facets:  Emotional lability, anxiousness, submissiveness, separation insecurity, pessimism, low self-esteem, guilt/ shame, self-harm, depressivity, suspiciousness

• Introversion: Withdrawal from other people, ranging from intimate relationships to the world at large; restricted affective experience and expression; limited hedonic capacity
  
  Trait facets:  Social withdrawal, social detachment, restricted affectivity, anhedonia, intimacy avoidance

• Antagonism: Exhibits diverse manifestations of antipathy toward others, and a correspondingly exaggerated sense of self-importance
  
  Trait facets:  Callousness, manipulativeness, narcissism, histrionism, hostility, aggression, oppositionality, deceitfulness

• Disinhibition: Diverse manifestations of being present- (vs. future- or past-) oriented, so that behavior is driven by current internal and external stimuli, rather than by past learning and consideration of future consequences
  
  Trait facets:  Impulsivity, distractibility, recklessness, irresponsibility

• Compulsivity: The tendency to think and act according to a narrowly defined and unchanging ideal, and the expectation that this ideal  should be adhered to by everyone
  
  Trait facets:  Perfectionism, perseveration, rigidity, orderliness, risk aversion

• Schizotypy: Exhibits a range of odd or unusual behaviors and cognitions, including both process (e.g., perception) and content (e.g., beliefs)
  
  Trait facets:  Unusual perceptions, unusual beliefs, eccentricity, cognitive dysregulation, dissociation proneness

The other PDs will be in a general category - Paranoid Personality Disorder, Schizoid Personality Disorder, Histrionic Personality Disorder, Narcissistic Personality Disorder, Dependent Personality Disorder

I tend to see the pwBPD in my life as this immature and emotionally hindered individual. She simply can not be accountable because she doesn't have the skill set to regulate the emotions (guilt/shame) that comes along with being "wrong".

Wrong = Bad.

It's that simple. She lacks emotional maturity and intelligence, so she uses all her coping mechanisms (projection/blame) in order not to deal with those emotions. Her responses are similar to a young child being scolded for their behavior

"Well, he does it too."

[Bonus mom]

Hi T,

I understand what you're looking for from your mom, and I don't want to sound pessimistic in my response because some people with BPD do seek treatment and can find a way to have healthy relationships.  But to be totally honest, a person with BPD who doesn't wish to seek treatment, or won't acknowledge that they have issues, will never change.  So that makes your wish (all of us who wish!) for a heartfelt apology virtually impossible.  Dreamgirl is correct about how deep their shame is, that a BPD could never ever admit to being wrong, because it does mean to them that they must then be very bad.   

I have slowly detached myself from my own BPD mother over a number of years.  Over the last 12 years in particular, we have really reduced our contact.  And that finally came to a head last Christmas, when I had to simply draw a line.  Now our contact is very limited to perhaps four social events per year - we have a lot of young children in the family, so birthdays and major holidays do tend to bring everyone together.  I would never be with her just one on one though.  That would be an absolute mistake on my part LOL... .  We have no phone conversations, and even text messages, to be honest, can be hurtful from her. 

This is what I have found to help me understand our lack of relationship and cope with it: I am a wonderful person. I am a loving person, kind, and worthy. The opinion of my mother is not how I see myself.  Just because she gave birth to me, does not mean that she will love me unconditionally. Just because she is my mother, does not mean that I will love her unconditionally.

And repeat.

We do an injustice to ourselves when we set a "relationship bar" for mothers and children; somewhere along the way, a picture of bliss was painted regarding parents and children, making it really difficult for people who do not have good relationships with parents and/or children to find support and understanding when things just don't go as the story books tell us they should.  Blame and guilt reign supreme!  I no longer subscribe to this train of thought.  (Ironically, any other relationship that was built upon guilt and shame would be described as abusive, and everyone we know would be telling us to run run run the other way!)

I used to get those "letters" that your mom sends you as well, and I found with all the help I uncovered on this site and others that, really, it just makes things worse.  The letters seem to  be a way of keeping a circular conversation going.  Nothing is ever resolved in them, the BPD just has an opportunity to put on paper all of their feelings (which are generally accusations) without interruption.  They ramble on, almost always accuse the reader of being the cause/instigator/root of the issue - and usually spur the reader to jump to an enabling position, or defensive position.  That, of course, just fuels the fire.

So the point of all my rambling  here is this: You should never ever feel guilt for distancing yourself from an unhealthy relationship.  It doesn't matter who that relationship is with, your health and well-being are important.  You should be prepared for a future where your mom may never give you the apology that you seek.  And you should know that if she doesn't ever give you this apology, it is okay. Your value is not determined by her - you determine your value.

And if you ever do get that apology from her? Then you can share with everyone here and we will be happy for you!

[audioangel2]

This is what I have found to help me understand our lack of relationship and cope with it: I am a wonderful person. I am a loving person, kind, and worthy. The opinion of my mother is not how I see myself.  Just because she gave birth to me, does not mean that she will love me unconditionally. Just because she is my mother, does not mean that I will love her unconditionally.

You should never ever feel guilt for distancing yourself from an unhealthy relationship.  It doesn't matter who that relationship is with, your health and well-being are important. 

Bonus mom, these thoughts provided soo much clarity for me this morning, you have no idea. Thank you for sharing!

[Tygeress]

Thank you all for your responses and support! This is such a wonderful community  I'm only sorry all of you have to go through this, as well.

Bonus Mom, thank you very much for the mantra, I'm going to have to memorize it! 


I talked to my therapist about it on Monday and he made me realize some pretty tough, but important things, some of which Bonus Mom has already hit upon. I'll post the paraphrased conversation in case it helps anyone else:

When I told him I was having trouble divorcing myself from the hope that she cared enough about our relationship to try and get better, he asked me whether or not I thought my mom loved me unconditionally.

I panicked for a moment, but then a lightning bolt hit  - I realized whether she does or doesn't... .DOES NOT change the facts of her behavior, which has been pretty consistently terrible.   

He then asked, as I was really the authority on the subject, whether I thought she would change or not.

I thought about it for a little bit and said "I guess not. She can't ever seem to admit she's wrong, even on little things."

He then suggested that I am not very used to thinking of my mother as cruel.

Sure, I knew that she had done and continues to do some pretty damaging things, but I always justified it as a result of the BPD/emotional issues. Something like "sometimes she acts cruel, but that doesn't mean she IS cruel."

He then asked whether I would ever say "I don't want to have a relationship with you anymore" to my own daughter, if I had one and a healthy relationship with her.

"Of course not!" I exclaimed.

Well, dern. How come I didn't see that before? I guess I DON'T have to feel guilty about distancing myself from someone who acts consistently cruelly towards me, even if they are my mother, and whether she "loves" me or not. What a concept! 

Admittedly, I do feel a bit of loss in the realization, but also a great weight of unnecessary guilt off my shoulders. (And suddenly how pissed off my b/f gets when he reads one of her "letters" makes a lot more sense.)

I think I'm going to, at the very least, go VLC for now.

[Bonus mom]

I would like to congratulate you on being able to take a step as big as this 

There will be times you'll fall back into old patterns, and your mom will be able to sting your heart - do not be discouraged, it's a normal part of this process.

I take comfort myself in being able to say the "stings" now only hurt for a moment, and they hurt less and less every time.  That in itself is progress!

Wishing you well,

Bonus mom

[kindsoul]

Wow! That was so helpful to read Bonus Mom and the other replies as well. Very very wise words here! Thanks 

[Tygeress]

Thanks, Bonus Mom and everyone else <3

It sucks and it's tough right now, but taking it one day at time with the hope things will, indeed, get better.