Trapped by my promises

[RedEye]

I have made plenty of really stupid promises over the course of our nine-month marriage. The short reason is that I was short-sighted and don't hold my boundaries well at all. The long reason is that when it's 4:00am and we've been fighting for six hours and I am unable to leave (either by a stupid promise or by being held down/beaten up physically), I start saying anything to just be able to sleep.

Anyway, I am currently bound by my word to the following:

* I am not allowed to leave/take a break during an argument. My spouse, because she is so devastated by whatever it is that we're arguing about, will not be able to function until the argument is over (a.k.a. she wins, because I have to get up in the morning and she can sleep in), so I must stay with her until things are resolved.

* I am not allowed to tell anybody about our problems. That includes friends and family -- everybody except our marriage counselor -- except my wife decides what I'm allowed to tell him.

* I am not allowed to talk to any other female (except our moms and the adult women in my family) unless absolutely necessary (like checking out at the grocery store), and no small talk is allowed.

* I am not allowed to see any female (same exceptions as above). In the above case, I must talk to the person without looking at her. Otherwise, I must keep my head down at all times. Due to earlier issues with me hiding some porn use, my wife no longer trusts me at all with anything to do with women. I must have eyes only for her, meaning that I am not allowed to see anybody else as pretty, and to make sure that doesn't happen, I am not allowed to look at all.

* I am not allowed to bring up my problems with these rules. They are necessary to her, and talking about them only makes her angry. I am also not allowed to mention these rules to anybody else.

* I must do everything she tells me to do. I'm always wrong and she's always right, so this will make sure I always do the right thing.

* I am not allowed to keep any secrets. I must tell her all phone calls I make, all emails I send, all places I visit.

* I am not allowed to leave the house or use the home computer without her permission.

All put together, I feel like a slave, that I can't do anything but mindlessly obey her and offer my friends and family no explanation for my change in behavior. This needs to stop, but I feel like she's left me no way out but to break at least one promise. How can I improve this situation? If I must break a promise, should I try DEARMAN to just say I can't take it anymore, I'm sorry, but I'll need to take away my promise? I have a history of lying/hiding things to try to avoid her anger, so this might be the final straw that breaks her trust camel's back... .

It's so upsetting. She's hurting so much, she feels so abused and rejected and betrayed, but she blames me for all of it. I hate seeing her hurt, seeing her depressed and wanting to die out of frustration and despair, but I don't think there's much I can do... .she needs to figure out on her own that I'm not trying to hurt her and that I'm not intentionally causing all of her problems, nor am I even the reason for all of her problems.

[RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING]

RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members are welcomed to express frustration but must seek constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[Mono No Aware]

Mikoshi,

Wow you've gone way too far down the no-win path.

At least you can talk to your mom, my mom is a trigger for my udBPDw.

At this point she's steamrolled you completely, but won't stop even if you wind up in a gimp suit chained to the basement wall... .because even then you'll THINK about another human being and that's just like cheating on her... .in BPD-land.

You can't live like this. You are essentially living as the slave of a control-freak dominatrix.

I am re-reading the 'rules' and getting more and more freaked out. Seriously you can't leave the house? What the heck?

You say you can't break her 'trust" - dude she has no trust whatsoever, thus the insane rules. What you have to break is her stranglehold on your right to live as an free adult.

Before things can get better, stop making them worse.

The first thing to do is stop making these completely un-reasonable "promises". This is the first boundary that I set and still have to defend: no arguing during sleepytime. Boom. There will be an extinction burst. Deal with it.

[Wrongturn1]

Mikoshi:  Guess what?  Even if you completely, 100%, follow ALL the rules and promises that you listed every single minute for the rest of your life, your wife will still not trust you.  And imagine yourself in the future at 90 years old, having followed those rules for multiple decades... .what kind of life would you have lived?

If she has BPD, she's simply not capable of trusting you or anyone else.  Continuing to follow all those very unreasonable rules will not help your wife, and it will turn you into a psychological wreck.  And guess what again, if you continue to comply and try to appease the disease, that list of rules will  only continue to grow longer, because whatever you do, it will never be enough.  Regardless of what your wife might say, you did not cause her underlying pain and shame that drives her, and you can't cure it.

Realize that you have a choice to make, either: 1) continue to abide by your wife's rules, which will result in a miserable and unhealthy life for you, or 2) start to implement some boundaries that will point your relationship in a healthier direction (which might feel like promise breaking to both of you, but could be in both of your best interests).

For example, you could say something to the effect of, "I realize I've told you that I would always turn my head when talking to any female to avoid seeing her.  I've been thinking about this though, and it occurs to me that the social norms in our country dictate that you typically look at the person you're talking to.  I don't want to come across as unfriendly or anti-social, and it makes me feel an unhealthy anxiety to be required to turn my head away when talking to people, so from now on, when I speak to a person - whether it is a man or a woman - I reserve the right to look the person in the eye and engage them in a cordial and socially acceptable manner.  I realize this might be difficult for you at first, and at the same time, I have to be able to function as a part of society."  And leave it at that.  You don't have to have her permission.

[RedEye]

How do you enforce the bedtime boundary? My wife says that if I want to sleep, I have to stop starting arguments (which, of course, is not all my fault). But she also doesn't want me to ignore her when she asks important questions, she says that she needs the answer right then, and won't stop asking until I answer her. If an argument does start, she doesn't let me leave. If I even try, she'll either restrain me, or feel abandoned and cry loudly, which wakes up and angers our neighbors (which she then blames me for (not to them -- she doesn't talk to them) but I guess that's not really my problem?).

Last night, she asked if I wanted to divorce her. I told her to stop asking me those types of questions that late at night, and then answered no. Maybe that will start teaching her that me wanting to wait on the questions does not mean that my answer needs to worry her.

[Free One]

Even with promises, you have a right to change your mind. 

[Wrongturn1]

Some ideas on enforcing the bedtime boundary:

The boundary could be something like "I need to be rested during the day so that I can perform well at work/school/life, so therefore, I will go to sleep at X time each night, which means that I will not participate in any conversations about any topic after X time."

You don't need your wife's permission to enforce this boundary.  The boundary is about the actions you take to preserve your own health and autonomy.  

For example, it's one minute until your pre-determined sleep time and your wife starts in with something like, "when the cashier girl at the grocery store told you to have a nice day earlier today and you responded, 'thanks, you too', I could tell you wanted her and that you are going to leave me for her... .blah, blah, blah."

You: "Wow, you sound upset.  I would feel upset too if I thought my spouse wanted someone else and was about to leave me.  The thing is, I only want you and do not want the cashier girl or anyone else, and I will not be leaving you.  It's time for me to sleep now, and I would be willing to discuss this in the morning if you want to - just let me know then." (validation with a touch of reassurance)

It might stop here if you handle it this way, if not, see below:

Her: "You're lying; you always try to hide things from me... .blah, blah, blah."

You: "Like I said, it's time for me to sleep now, so I'm going to get up and sleep in the guest room/on the couch/etc." [You leave and lay down elsewhere.]

Maybe it ends here.  If not:

Her: [invading your new sleep space] ":)o not walk out on me! You're not sleeping until we finish this conversation! blah, blah, blah."

You: "Like I said, it's time for me to sleep now, so if I can't sleep here, I'm heading to the motel down the street/my brother's apartment/etc." [grab your keys and phone and wallet, head for the door]

Her: [sobbing loudly] ":)on't you walk out that door, you *&$%#! I will not let you leave!"

You: [pressing the video record button on your phone] "I'm now recording this interaction.  I'll be leaving now, and if you try to physically prevent me from leaving, I will be calling 911 and we can show the video to the police.  If the neighbors ask me what has been happening, I'll show them this video since that's easier than trying to explain things to them."

Then you head for the door.  If she gets physical, you follow through on dialing 911 and let her explain it to the cops (warning: BPDs are excellent actors, so you had better have the video evidence).

Follow the same procedure as outlined above each time she tries to bait you into a conversation at bedtime.  Eventually she will learn, although things might temporarily get more difficult before they get easier for both of you.  

Hopefully it does not go as far as I've outlined above, but that's what boundaries are.  You enforce them even if your spouse gets really upset.  If you're not prepared to take it this far, then it's not really a boundary.  

[momtara]

Those are extremely extremely ridiculous promises, but I have been there too.  I agreed to so many things to stop my husband from being anxious and upset.  And then I'd accidentally break a promise (like, I had to promise to take my bedtime clothes out of the bedroom by 8:30 pm) and he'd say I went back on my word.

The problem is, you keep making more and more promises and then suddenly you are backed into a hole.

I know you are afraid she might leave if you stop all this, but it's very hard to live this way.

I used to outwit my hubby sometimes, telling him he had to participate in my keeping the promises, like reminding me at certain intervals.  He'd never do it though.

Maybe you can talk to the marriage counselor privately and swear her to secrecy, but have her say something during counseling that helps you get out of these rules? 

Hang in there.  I am codepe3ndent and I tried to view it as a challenge to stick by all my promises, but eventually it gets to a point where you just can't do everything perfectly. 

In the end, it came to a head.  Turns out my husband has ocd and had suppressed it for years and years.  He also has ptsd and I believe he has BPD. 

[momtara]

PS

She could one day claim YOU hit HER.  So please make sure you are recording.  yes, you will really lose her trust if she ever finds out, so be very careful.  But you just don't need to be arrested.  (If she's the type to lie about that).

My hubby also told me not to tell friends or family about our problems.  It's just part of isolating you.

[Cipher13]

Mikoshi

You could have just as easily been talking about me and my situation. I was at 1 time having to be required to text ever 5 to 10 mins so that she could see I was texting and not doing whatever she made up in her mind that I was doing that was so wrong.

The bedroom finghts/arguements are the worst. That seems to be when arguments happen the most. Its liek my wife can be mad at me in the morning them wait until juts before bed and spring out her anger and then bang... .4 to 5 hours or argueing.

I'm not sure what happened with my wife but for 4 to 5 weeks straight about ever 2 days we had a knock down drag out arguement that I would basically be listening to and not partisipating in. Then when she started to tell me to leave over and over I finally left the room and took my pillow and headed for the couch. She came out and I blew up. Not mean. Not violente but I actually said my peace... .her fear is that I will leave. I made it finally know that I would do that if she kept telling me to.

I to was corrned when trying to leave the house to keep from continuing to argue. I was going to go for a walk and she blocked the door with her body. I looked up at her face and I had never seen it so angry... .she was a differnte person at that moment.

Just wanted to share with you that most of those rule syou listed I have to also follow. Some are more extreme than mine. So of mine were exactly the same are now slightly less extreme. However I have no one to talk to not even my family anymore... .well via email at work that she doesn't know about. That sucks though. I havn't spent time with my family in 6 years or better. I missed out on my brother wedding and the birth of my neice and nephew whom I have never seen.

[waverider]

Not breaking promises is short term thinking.

Doing what is right to claim your rights back is long term.

If the two conflict them long term takes precedent.

This is probably not about morals but more your fear of conflict.

A pwBPD is far better at "negotiating" terms than you if try to be honorable.

Wrong is wrong, regardless of promises made under duress.

The more you comply the less she will respect you as a man. You are doing the wrong thing by you both if you dont break this pattern

[Sluggo]

Mikoska,

This was a similiar list I had given to me.  However, my is not as severe as yours.  However, I did comply for 2 months and was miserable inside.  I hated it and felt used and abused.   

8 weeks ago, I said 'I thought about what I said and decided I am not going to continue it'.  I will talk to my family when it is important to me.  Well now for 8 weeks the wrath began.  Either silent treatment or raging at me.  There is no inbetween.  I am sad it is like this... .but I feel so much better inside.  I started talking a couple close friends, a couple of family members, my pastor, therapist, and on these boards about what is going on in my life.  It is so much relief.  Like a soda pop bottle that is opened and the pressure is released. 

I am not sure how long this will continue as she said she will divorce me.  However, I feel like I got some of 'me' back and it feels good. 

Good luck.  Get yourself back.   

[Aussie0zborn]

Wow. You actually live like that? Why do you do it?  

I enforced bedtime boundaries by heading to the local motel and deducting the cost of the motel from my mortgage payments. She ridiculed me each time but my stance was, "I'm not going to pay for a house when I can't sleep in it". I found sleep deprivation to be VERY PAINFUL. Did it work? Well, yes... .for a little while then it would happen again next time she got drunk. And again the next time after that, and so on.  But I always deducted the cost of the motel. When reviewing eight years of my credit card statements she remarked on how many times I use motels and demanded to know if I was having an affair!

I don't think you can change the balance to the point where you are an equal partner in the relationship.  

[GopherAgent]

Mikoska... .I'm dealing with this right now as well.

I too have made far too many of the same promises and I thought that if I promised whatever it was at that moment she was talking about then the situation would be instantly resolved and she would be able to see I was serious and honest about meeting her needs.

Well, 510 promises later I've finally realized that:

1. A new issue always comes up that needs an additional promise I must make... .that's now 511 promises to keep.

2. I can't remember all of the promises I made... .BUT... .She sure can remember them all and the very second she decides that I broke just one little itsy bitsy sub-atomic particle of that promise (even though I didn't break it or even remember it)... .I'm done for.

It's a never ending circle that only demoralizes me and provides her with more proof that I'm the defective person in the relationship and she remains secure in her beliefs that everybody else is out to get her.

There is some good advice in the above posts.

First, stop making promises.

Then move on with the realization that this is difficult (possibly impossible) to change.

From my 32 years of life with my uBPDw I can tell you that she doesn't ever trust me... .and most likely never has.  And she verbalizes that mistrust in every conversation we've ever had... .something I failed to see for 31 1/2 years. Those promises I make are her ways of measuring my responses to her because of how she's mis-wired. They aren't rational responses to life and never will be. And them you wake up one day and realize... ."This is so irrational". Ooops... .Too late!

Look... .You've only got nine months into this thing. Don't go 31 more years or even one more hour of being hated and unloved and told what crap you are because... .It won't change. AND, DON'T MAKE ANOTHER PROMISE.

Don't get isolated. It will happen without you knowing it. And when you realize it has happened, then you are overwhelmed with the realization that everything in your relationship has no meaning what so ever.

This is my current struggle. I've just come to the realization that her uBPD has meant that my attempts to love her and cherish her don't register with her the same way they register with me. The only thing she measures my relationship by is how I perform, and how much I buy her and how many days of the week I read the Bible with her. It's always... ."You don't ever spend enough time with Me!" My love and compassion for her are miniscule events to her in light of how often I abandon her and hurt her on a near daily basis she tells me.

I'm just now trying to decide how to face the future. It doesn't look very promising.

[Concord]

Mikoshi, that is insane. You are a SLAVE. And the person who is supposed to "love" you has done this to YOU. Forget about her "reasons". This see you have 2 choices:

1) make a plan to take back your freedom and EXECUTE it

2) leave

[waverider]

Hi Folks

Please keep in mind this is the Staying Board and refrain from promoting "run" messages. The aim of this board is to at least attempt to salvage a relationship and start the personal healing before considering exiting. That is a consideration for down the track and to be considered on other more appropriate boards.

Run recommendations will be removed

Thanks

Waverider