still ruminating - over a year later

[struggli]

I think it's hard for me because

a) I ended the relationship (was it hasty?)

b) I didn't try to work things out anymore (how much should one try?)

c) I broke up via text

d) I didn't beg and plead for resolution and she didn't either

e) I ultimately ended it because I didn't trust her but am not sure if this was because of insecurity, paranoia, etc.  There was no "hard evidence" of cheating, but it just "felt" things were going that direction.**

f) I occasionally (once or twice a month) see her in public places and the look is of "nothingness" when we briefly make eye contact. 

g) The obvious: I thought she was "the one" and that I'd never be alone again that we'd last forever.  I never really felt that before, except maybe when I was a teenager. 

**This one I think about a lot because it was the basis of my decision and because I can't say anything definitive or concrete like "I walked in on her having sex with a guy".  The worst evidence I got was when I saw her holding hands with a guy outside a bar during a time when she "needed space."  That was the final straw for me which seems absurd and petty sometimes when I think about it.  However a few days before I witnessed this she had confessed she was ashamed of her sexual past.  I asked her to elaborate and she said she cheated on her ex-bf ten times while they were together.  So, I put that knowledge together with the hand holding incident and the result in my mind was... .she's cheating or working on cheating.

It became hard to differentiate between MY reality (my eyes see her holding hands with a guy in a place where she likely did not expect to see me) and her explanation ("he's a friend and I hold hands with my friends -- oh, and also, he tried to kiss me and I turned away".  So, was it just an innocent interaction that I overreacted about?  Or was she telling me she was a cheater just days before the incident and I was ignoring it?  Was it just a series of misunderstandings?

If she wanted to change her cheating ways (which she indicated by talking about her shame for having done it in the past), perhaps she was genuine about it, and perhaps she genuinely believed she was just being "friendly" holding her guy friends hands.  Maybe it just looked bad.

I did feel that her behavior was often leading guys on whether she intentionally did it or not.



Perhaps I just needed to put all that in writing.

[Jbt857]

I don't know what to tell you, except I have a number of guy friends.

Not only would we not hold hands (hug, yes), but they would never try to kiss me. Friends are friends. There's a line that friends don't cross.

I think your intuition may have been correct. I think it's easy to question it sometimes, but more often than not, it proves to be right.

[Reg]

Hi struggli,

I have just one question for you before I would like to talk more.  How many times did your ex partner hold hands with you in public ?

Reg

[Clearmind]

Struggli, can you elaborate more on g)? While you say its obvious, I would imagine there is more to unlock there.

[bpdspell]

Struggli,

I was in your shoes a year out of my breakup (I broke up with him as well) and like yourself stuck in rumination and wondering if I had made the worst mistake of my life throwing the BPD baby out with the bath water.

A year later I was still very attached to my ex because the idea of truly detaching and letting go felt so unbearable to me. I would also bargain and negotiate my grief because I was gripped with the fear that the emotional pain of surrender would truly kill me.

A struggle indeed.

Detaching is your goal.

It will take time but you will have to come to place in your journey where you simply allow yourself to grieve. The only way out of the pain, stuck ness, and crippling feelings of inertia is feeling our way through; not thinking.

Our grieving is critical to accepting who our exes are. Otherwise we are doomed to continue to live with emotional blinders that block us from trusting our own instincts.

We tend to doubt ourselves when we don't know who we are. Many of us believe our exes are the best that we can do; that they are the apex if what it means to be in love. But we have to let that fantasy go. But letting go of that fantasy requires grieving.otherwise you'll continue to hold onto the ghosts of your memories.

Spell

[struggli]

I don't know what to tell you, except I have a number of guy friends.

Not only would we not hold hands (hug, yes), but they would never try to kiss me. Friends are friends. There's a line that friends don't cross.

I think your intuition may have been correct. I think it's easy to question it sometimes, but more often than not, it proves to be right.

After seeing her feed her boss a piece of candy, I got a little upset.

After seeing that her ex boyfriend (now friend) had drawn something small on her thigh through a hole in her stockings using a pen, I got a little upset.

After seeing her put her hand on my brother's thigh briefly while talking to him, I got a little upset (and so did he).

Etc.

Hugs even started to become a problem.  Or touching a guy at all.  Perhaps had it only ever been hugs to begin with, hugs wouldn't have bothered me.  She'd even hug her boss goodbye at the end of the shift.  I guess he could be considered a friend.

I started doubted my intuition/gut and reframed it to her description of insecurity and something that I needed to work on since "I was the one she was with; I was the one she came home to" (to paraphrase her).  So I tried to open my mind and be more accepting.  I tried to understand all these new dynamics that I had never experienced in 10+ years of other relationships.  I thought "this is just something I haven't experienced before, so, because I love her, I will try to accept her touchy-feeliness and be confident enough to know that she is mine."

I felt like she was always drawing in "vultures."  A beacon for hopeful guys.

It's just seems so abstract I can't come to a conclusion.

[Ironmanrises]

I don't know what to tell you, except I have a number of guy friends.

Not only would we not hold hands (hug, yes), but they would never try to kiss me. Friends are friends. There's a line that friends don't cross.

I think your intuition may have been correct. I think it's easy to question it sometimes, but more often than not, it proves to be right.

After seeing her feed her boss a piece of candy, I got a little upset.

After seeing that her ex boyfriend (now friend) had drawn something small on her thigh through a hole in her stockings using a pen, I got a little upset.

After seeing her put her hand on my brother's thigh briefly while talking to him, I got a little upset (and so did he).

Etc.

Hugs even started to become a problem.  Or touching a guy at all.  Perhaps had it only ever been hugs to begin with, hugs wouldn't have bothered me.  She'd even hug her boss goodbye at the end of the shift.  I guess he could be considered a friend.

I started doubted my intuition/gut and reframed it to her description of insecurity and something that I needed to work on since "I was the one she was with; I was the one she came home to" (to paraphrase her).  So I tried to open my mind and be more accepting.  I tried to understand all these new dynamics that I had never experienced in 10+ years of other relationships.  I thought "this is just something I haven't experienced before, so, because I love her, I will try to accept her touchy-feeliness and be confident enough to know that she is mine."

I felt like she was always drawing in "vultures."  A beacon for hopeful guys.

It's just seems so abstract I can't come to a conclusion.

That is so wrong of her to do to you.

I am so sorry.

In bold.

She detected some insecurity in you... .

And that behavior... .

All appalling... .

The drawing in of the guy vultures(i hate them too with a f¥cking passion)... .

Was to undermine you... .

And shift all the power to her... .

Via that total insecurity... .

She blanketed on you.

Hang in there.

[struggli]

Hi struggli,

I have just one question for you before I would like to talk more.  How many times did your ex partner hold hands with you in public ?

Reg

Initially, she'd do it a lot.  Sometimes even if it wasn't practical, like at the store while I was pushing a shopping cart or something.  Sometimes on road trips she'd hold my hand for like an hour.  We'd go on a hike and she'd hold my hand the entire time.  It almost felt like too much hand holding sometimes, but I didn't mind since I loved her and I wasn't going to turn away affection.

As time went by and a couple recycles, I'd try to hold her hand (yes, now I was initiating it) and she'd do it for 10 seconds and then say "it's too hot outside to hold hands" and release my hand.

[struggli]

I don't know what to tell you, except I have a number of guy friends.

Not only would we not hold hands (hug, yes), but they would never try to kiss me. Friends are friends. There's a line that friends don't cross.

I think your intuition may have been correct. I think it's easy to question it sometimes, but more often than not, it proves to be right.

After seeing her feed her boss a piece of candy, I got a little upset.

After seeing that her ex boyfriend (now friend) had drawn something small on her thigh through a hole in her stockings using a pen, I got a little upset.

After seeing her put her hand on my brother's thigh briefly while talking to him, I got a little upset (and so did he).

Etc.

Hugs even started to become a problem.  Or touching a guy at all.  Perhaps had it only ever been hugs to begin with, hugs wouldn't have bothered me.  She'd even hug her boss goodbye at the end of the shift.  I guess he could be considered a friend.

I started doubted my intuition/gut and reframed it to her description of insecurity and something that I needed to work on since "I was the one she was with; I was the one she came home to" (to paraphrase her).  So I tried to open my mind and be more accepting.  I tried to understand all these new dynamics that I had never experienced in 10+ years of other relationships.  I thought "this is just something I haven't experienced before, so, because I love her, I will try to accept her touchy-feeliness and be confident enough to know that she is mine."

I felt like she was always drawing in "vultures."  A beacon for hopeful guys.

It's just seems so abstract I can't come to a conclusion.

That is so wrong of her to do to you.

I am so sorry.

In bold.

She detected some insecurity in you... .

And that behavior... .

All appalling... .

The calling in of the guy vultures(i hate them too with a f¥cking passion)... .

Was to undermine you... .

And shift all the power to her... .

Via that total insecurity... .

She blanketed on you.

Hang in there.

But because I simply felt it or had a hunch, was it so?

[Ironmanrises]

Both.

You felt them hovering around your borders of your relationship with her... .

Because she was giving off signals to them... .

That they were allowed to come in close.

[struggli]

Struggli, can you elaborate more on g)? While you say its obvious, I would imagine there is more to unlock there.

Good point.

The shallow:  She was physically beautiful, the sex was very compatible (yes, these are important to me in a partner and I understand they are not definitive of love, but are nevertheless in the equation)

The deeper:  It seemed that we mutually adored one another.  I was interested in her interests and vice versa.  It seemed we had a shared vision for the future and that we were working toward that.  There was mutual effort.  It seemed like a honeymoon that had no reason to end, because it was just a good match, finally.

But of course it all eroded rapidly for no apparent reason on more than one occasion  (AKA reycling?).  At those times, I interpreted it as some sabotaging behavior (ie. her not believing she is worthy of something good/functional), but not something as perplexing or persistent as BPD.

[34broken]

Oh my Struggli... .did we date the same chicky? ... .I read your story and I totally relate.  The circus show that is my ex... .seems to be recycling. 6 mos ago I would have responded to her right away. ... I still may reach out to her ... .but this time I feel different ( meaning I am not that obsessed ... not as inclined to respond to her). ... .maybe the power struggle is subsiding.  I hope you can have a day or two of total detachment. ... wh3n u do ... .it feels like a rebirth.   I didnt think it would ever happen for me.    Now... .if I can find a way for her to quit her job at our company... .

... .best wishes. ... keep on taking care of u.

[struggli]

Struggli,

I was in your shoes a year out of my breakup (I broke up with him as well) and like yourself stuck in rumination and wondering if I had made the worst mistake of my life throwing the BPD baby out with the bath water.

A year later I was still very attached to my ex because the idea of truly detaching and letting go felt so unbearable to me. I would also bargain and negotiate my grief because I was gripped with the fear that the emotional pain of surrender would truly kill me.

A struggle indeed.

Detaching is your goal.

It will take time but you will have to come to place in your journey where you simply allow yourself to grieve. The only way out of the pain, stuck ness, and crippling feelings of inertia is feeling our way through; not thinking.

Our grieving is critical to accepting who our exes are. Otherwise we are doomed to continue to live with emotional blinders that block us from trusting our own instincts.

We tend to doubt ourselves when we don't know who we are. Many of us believe our exes are the best that we can do; that they are the apex if what it means to be in love. But we have to let that fantasy go. But letting go of that fantasy requires grieving.otherwise you'll continue to hold onto the ghosts of your memories.

Spell

This is all very true.  Aside from the anxiety and the heavy heart I get when thinking about it, I don't feel it.  Even if I say to myself "Hey, go ahead and feel it" nothing happens.  I have grieved past relationships in what felt like a normal way.  There was great sadness, crying, a cleansing/reborn feeling afterward.  This is just some limbo of dull pain.

You were right that I felt like it was the apex of love.  I still do.

I've reverse engineered everything I experienced (that I can remember) about the relationship and it's like it's become a BPD conspiracy theory.  Sort of like one of those movies where at the end they play back a bunch of clips of clues all at once and you see that it was all one big mastermind scheme from the start and the protagonist was completely oblivious.

Except it wasn't a movie.  So the puzzle pieces don't fit together so nicely.

If I think about what I felt.  Yes she loved me.  I loved her. 

I guess I just cannot accept that it is over and grieve because I cannot accept the validity of the breakup.

Too much thinking... .

No feeling... .

[struggli]

Both.

You felt them hovering around your borders of your relationship with her... .

Because she was giving off signals to them... .

That they were allowed to come in close.

That's certainly how I perceived it.

[Clearmind]

But of course it all eroded rapidly for no apparent reason on more than one occasion  (AKA reycling?).  At those times, I interpreted it as some sabotaging behavior (ie. her not believing she is worthy of something good/functional), but not something as perplexing or persistent as BPD.

There are reasons! Lots of 

The shallow:  She was physically beautiful, the sex was very compatible (yes, these are important to me in a partner and I understand they are not definitive of love, but are nevertheless in the equation)

The deeper:  It seemed that we mutually adored one another.  I was interested in her interests and vice versa.  It seemed we had a shared vision for the future and that we were working toward that.  There was mutual effort.  It seemed like a honeymoon that had no reason to end, because it was just a good match, finally.

There is a lot to the thoughts that we hang onto – especially around the fact we place a big importance on physical attractiveness and sex. For a hook to be physical attractiveness usually means we don’t feel that way about ourselves and while it seems shallow it’s in fact linked to our own feelings of self worth. Low self worth ---> the belief we cannot do better than being treated poorly. 

We can feel like Cinderella or Prince Charming when we have a beautiful person on our arm – once the stroke of midnight comes around that façade is very short lived. Its fantasy.

Challenging our thoughts about the sex being compatible may also help to dispute the myth she is the one. Given Borderlines lack the ability to express intimacy and sex in the one act means we may need to rethink our beliefs on compatibility and change our perception of what perfect sex is.

Struggli, why did it “seem like we mutually adored one another” – where in your past were you taught to persist with someone when red flags were flying and she was oscillating between “making love” to you and then screaming, raging, throwing accusations and blame?

Can I suggest you do some more linking of how she treated you and your past. We are taught our relationship skills and also taught the belief of what a healthy relationship is from our own experience in not only childhood but how we mirror relationship patterns from those around us.

The reason why we tend to hold onto these beliefs they were the one and why we continue to blame ourselves for the relationship demise 12 months and even 2 years down the track is because we simply only skim the surface of possible answers – the depth of our delving usually ends with our ex and what they did or didn’t do. It’s not about them – it’s what is innate in you, before she came along that has you (me, us) stuck on the Why did they do that, I did everything to please her/him and still I was abused” thoughts….

g) The obvious: I thought she was "the one" and that I'd never be alone again that we'd last forever.  I never really felt that before, except maybe when I was a teenager. 

This is poignant! Correct me if I am wrong – we believe that we found “the one” because no one has ever made us open like they could, we felt at one with them, fully understood without having to explain ourselves, loved like no other, adored for everything we are, complemented for everything we do including how we perform in bed, showered with gifts and we talked for hours on end, sex was incessant so it must have been love --- all this is the complete opposite of what love and true intimacy is – No one person can ever be “the one” until we feel at whole with ourselves first.

Having a fear of being alone is a sure sign of picking a Borderline given they promise the world and understand us like no other/we finally feel accepted…we place a huge amount of credence on what they say however we place no credence on what they do/the actions.

So if someone says “I love you, I need you, I adore you” and then an hour later or a day later says “Struggli, you are worthless, I cannot stand the sight of you, I hate you” – what does that show you? Does it show that their love is conditional on what you can do for them. You were not loved unconditionally yet you (we, us) miss them, say we love them and ruminate over them.

I never really felt that before, except maybe when I was a teenager.

Can you help me understand this Struggli?