If your agreement said the ex had to get counseling...

[momtara]

How did you know if she or he was really going?

[catnap]

Son's sole custody agreement read that exgf had to complete out patient drug counseling for X months, complete a parenting class, etc. before she would be able to have a supervised visit.  She didn't, therefore no visits were allowed.  The programs would have given her a certificate of completion to prove she had done everything the program required. 

[Matt]

It only came up once - not in court.  I just asked her the name of her psychotherapist and she had no answer - she changed the subject - and everybody knew she was lying.

[scraps66]

To do this properly, an Order would have to be written for a specific psychologist.  Then, that pscyhologist would have to be OK with reporting to the court whether progress was in fact begin made to address some diagnosis.  To my knowledge, this is a rarety on this board, individuals having the court prescribe therapy for a parent.  This is something you can get wrapped up in trying to prove, whether a litigant is going to therapy or not.  So much so this may be one of those battles that is jsut not worth fighting.  I tried for over two years to have my ex get her court-ordered psychological evaluation.  Mistake after mistake, court and lawyers, and I just gave up.  I'm told, now, if i really want this done, I would have to go back to court and OFFER to pay for the evaluation.  If the PDs don't want to be found out, they can get out of nerly anything.  My ex is uNPD/BPD and probably sociopathic with a high IQ.  I can't keep up.     

[Matt]

Yeah, if someone wants to get help they will, and if they don't, and you try to force it, they'll just spend an hour lying.

If it's in the court order, and you end up back in court for whatever reason, it would be pretty easy to prove they aren't complying with the court order - just ask for details like the therapist's name, or maybe where their office is, or the last appointment, and it will be obvious they are lying.  The court could ask to see evidence they are complying with the court order, or a report from the therapist.

But it's not likely the court will do anything about it, and if the court forces the issue, someone who thinks there's nothing wrong with them won't benefit from therapy anyway.

[ForeverDad]

During the negotiations on the day I got custody, I learned that ex couldn't get counseling because of the pending custody action.  The typical reluctance of therapists who don't want to risk being called into court.  The GAL didn't want counseling to be in the custody order so it was to be ordered afterward separately.  Guess what?  Yep, never happened.  And when I asked the GAL about it a year or two later, it wasn't even remembered.

Generally the most you might get, except for extreme cases, is Anger Management and even then there's no guarantee of improvement.  The courts generally deal with the parents as they are.

[Matt]

One of our members had an interesting experience - I'm not sure if it was his initiative or the court's idea... .

The court ordered his ex to have supervised visitation, til she could show the court that she had learned through therapy why she had made false accusations against him.  After several months of therapy, the judge asked her, "Have you learned why you made those accusations?", and she answered by repeating the accusations which had been proved false.  So supervised visitation continued.

If it's about results - learning why they did what they did and how they can do better in the future - that might be pretty effective... .

[livednlearned]

You can also subpoena the psychologist.

My L did that to N/BPDx's psychologist. She also subpoenaed the psychiatrist who did N/BPDx's psych eval.

Are you asking because you hope the counseling will be helpful, or because you want to know if you can use it to show the court your ex is not motivated to comply?

[momtara]

Because I think the kids are in more danger if he stops his counseling.

[livednlearned]

Because I think the kids are in more danger if he stops his counseling.

If the agreement says he has to get counseling, then you can file motions for contempt if he doesn't go. First, you would subpoena the psychologist. Then file the motion. Then a hearing before the judge. It would have more teeth if you could demonstrate that a) ex was seeing a counselor and the behavior was xyz; then b) ex was not seeing the counselor and behavior was zyx.

Then you could file to modify the order so that there are contingencies based on whether he complies. If ex does not see counselor, then visitation changes to no overnights,  or visitation is supervised, etc.

The downside is that the court will have to find his behavior dangerous to the kids -- sometimes that standard is a lot lower than ours. And the psychologist will also have a chance to testify. And he or she may water down their professional opinions to the point they are ambiguous at best.

I can't remember -- does your ex have a diagnosis?

[momtara]

he told me that his shrink said he has ocd and ptsd.  I never know what's true, though.  we saw a family counselor for a year who eventually told me she thinks he has a PD.  she said she'd only testify if she were subpoenaed.  but she's been out of our picture for a while.  

so yeah, ocd and ptsd - but I've never met the shrink, so he probably thinks hubby is a great guy and dad and doesn't know all his scary behavior.  he DOES know some of it though. 

[livednlearned]

he told me that his shrink said he has ocd and ptsd.  I never know what's true, though.  we saw a family counselor for a year who eventually told me she thinks he has a PD.  she said she'd only testify if she were subpoenaed.  but she's been out of our picture for a while.  

so yeah, ocd and ptsd - but I've never met the shrink, so he probably thinks hubby is a great guy and dad and doesn't know all his scary behavior.  he DOES know some of it though. 

I'm almost certain that N/BPDx was diagnosed bipolar at some point. His mother is medicated and treated for it, and N/BPDx has said things over the years that make me think someone diagnosed him at some point. He also never admits to a family history of bipolar on any medical forms, although for some reason he seems to think OCD and ADHD is socially acceptable, and he'll occasionally let it slip that he experiences some of the symptoms of both. Maybe your ex is doing the same? Picking the diagnoses that he is comfortable with, and suppressing the ones he isn't?

I think you're in a tough position because your ex agreed to go to counseling, and you see a positive effect. Unfortunately, that kinda sets you up for codependent thinking. "If I can get him to stay in counseling, the kids will be better off." And then you end up gripping tight to an outcome you really have no control over, spending lots of time and money making sure he gets counseling, even though you two are divorced and he is a grown man.

I went through something like this with n/BPDx's drinking. I felt sure that the courts would be my ally when it came to N/BPDx and alcohol.  Everything is there in the temporary order, including N/BPDx agreeing that he would not drink alcohol before or during S12's visits. Then I would get b@tsh!t crazy emails from him, clearly intoxicated, during the hours after S12 was in bed during his visitation with his dad. And the night N/BPDx had his psychotic episode, when S12 was in the house, I knew that he was drunk. There was literally nothing I could do! Four police officers, two lawyers, two social workers, two therapists, on the phone all night long, and all I could do was wait to see if N/BPDx was going to come to his senses. Most painful, darkest night of my life. It was like watching my child being eaten alive by a predator, and I couldn't do a thing.

The sad truth is that the courts don't care about the diagnosis, or the counseling, or who is following the orders. They only care about the behaviors. If you have a good order, you can use court documents to triangulate with the laws, and that makes the judges job easier. If your ex is acting unstable around the kids, document it. Think strategically about what outcome you think is best for them. Limited visitation, supervised visitation, you with sole custody, whatever it is. And then document how his behavior harms the kids.

When you do that, the other stuff comes up, like whether he is seeing a counselor, or whether he is seeking treatment, and those details fill in the story around your documentation. But if you focus on controlling what he does, I'm afraid you will lose. Everyone here lose that battle. That's the painful truth about all of this. We have no control over them. Just us.

[momtara]

Very interesting, and that's good common sense for me.  You are very wise.  I am pretty sure I'm codependent and maybe I just want him to be the best dad he can be.  I am thinking the OCD causes some of the things he imagines (if that's what he has) and he really has to get that taken care of.

Limited or supervised visitation?  I would love to get that, but I missed the chance for a psych eval.  We had mediation early on for just a custody agreement, and I didn't ask for psych or anything else (I was naïve).  What he does have is visitation pretty rarely (Saturday to Sunday every other week, but it is still an overnight).  Any amount could expose kids to dangers.

If I want to get a psych eval now, I will have to ask for an emergency order and have supervised visitation pending a psych eval.  If I just ask for it without saying it's an emergency, he still will have his visitation until the court decides, and he'll be even more agitated.  So I have to ask for an emergency, which is a higher standard.

I keep going back and forth on whether to do it.  Lawyers and psychologists I talk to are about 50/50 on this - some say just keep documenting and wait until something worse happens (!).  So far, I have kept the court out of my case.  Once they come in, we all lose control, but at least maybe I have experts that may protect my kids.

The worst thing that happened is that he imagined our daughter was sick, wanted to give her Bena dryl, I said she wasn't sick, then eventually he said ok, but at first he wouldn't back down.  (It's a longer story but I'm shortening it).  At least he didn't do anything, in the end, but if he imagined that, I don't know what else he'll imagine, and it's hard that I will have to deal with mollifying his crises for the rest of my life.

[Matt]

Here's how it worked for me - where I live:

* I filed a motion asking for a Custody Evaluator to be appointed - a Ph.D. psychologist who had been appointed by this court for other cases.  The motion was granted.

* The CE cost $5,000.  I had to pay it all, but I got half of it back in the settlement.

* The CE then asked each of us to take an objective test - the MMPI-2.  $500 each - we each paid for our own.

* The CE met with each of us, and with the kids, and talked by phone with my older kids (adults) and a few other people we both suggested.

* Then he wrote a report which said I had no disorders and my wife had "multiple psychological disorders".  He recommended shared custody, but said my son should probably spend more time with me when he got older.  The report also recommended psychotherapy for her, and that went into the court order.

* That was 5 years ago.  I don't think she ever got therapy, and we haven't been back to court.  But when we had a serious conflict, and worked with a court-appointed mediator, I knew I had a strong position, because if we went back to court I could show she hadn't complied with the court order.

The other thing to remember is - you could talk with any professional and they would tell you this - therapy won't be effective unless he is committed to it.  He can sit there for an hour and tell lies, or blame you for everything, and nothing will be accomplished.  That's why I haven't made an issue of it - if my ex was forced to get therapy nothing would be accomplished.

[momtara]

Thanks - that is very helpful.

In the end you got what I already have... .even less.  So not sure that the behaviors I am listing will result in supervised visitation for him, which is really the next step.

It scares me that he imagines and makes up that our kids are sick.  One of them does have medical problems and I don't know if he could give the wrong medication or what.

Hmmmm, so here I sit on the internet.  If something happens to them, I will regret not forcing a psych eval.  But if court makes things worse for us, I will regret forcing it.

[Matt]

In the end you got what I already have... .even less.  So not sure that the behaviors I am listing will result in supervised visitation for him, which is really the next step.

Every situation is different, and I made some mistakes earlier in my case;  for a dad in my state, the results were pretty much the best possible.  I'm glad we had the psych evals, because they contributed to the result, and because my hand is now very strong - if my ex's behavior gets worse the groundwork is laid for a change.  (In fact, the kids are now with me most of the time, but I haven't gone back to court to make that official.)

If something happens to them, I will regret not forcing a psych eval.  But if court makes things worse for us, I will regret forcing it.

I don't see the court making things worse, unless you over-react somehow.  The Benadryl stuff doesn't sound super-bad - you could say, he made a bad judgement, but surely the court sees that a lot - parents (especially those who haven't been very involved) who just make bad decisions at times.  You see it differently, because you know him well, and it fits into a bigger pattern.  So the challenge is to show that pattern to the court - maybe tough to do.

Psych evals give the big picture.  Then all the specific behaviors fit into that picture and can be seen in that context.

[livednlearned]

I am thinking the OCD causes some of the things he imagines (if that's what he has) and he really has to get that taken care of.

He doesn't have to do anything.   That's the cold hard painful truth. He doesn't have to do anything, and neither you nor the court can make him do anything. We can draw up legal orders through court, but there are only two things court really does for high-conflict custody cases: decide visitation and custody. Everything else is just legal leverage to help us attain our visitation and custody goals. We are messy, our lives are messy. But court is actually quite logical. I think that's why we hate it.

The crises don't seem to go away for lots of us. But that doesn't mean it's going to always be this bad. What worked for me is that I got really clear about my goals and I came up with a strategy that worked for me. Your strategy might include how you plan to deal with the crises, how you will communicate with him, what you will communicate with him about, what issues you can let go, which ones will set legal things in motion, etc.

Build some scaffolding for yourself so you can step out of reaction mode. Something high enough so you can see a clear path forward for yourself and your kids. Part legal strategy, part coping skills so you can get through this. Won't be easy, but it helps for the long haul.

[Matt]

Your strategy might include how you plan to deal with the crises, how you will communicate with him, what you will communicate with him about, what issues you can let go, which ones will set legal things in motion, etc.

The communication aspect was huge for me.

I was in the habit of discussing things with my ex, and that didn't work.

So - with advice from others here - I learned a different way to communicate.  Almost entirely e-mail - very little face-to-face - phone only when e-mail wouldn't do.

Everything very short and to-the-point.  No emotions.  Ignore the other party's emotions and anything that isn't practical, here-and-now stuff about the kids.

A few times I had to hang up the phone, while my ex was talking, to establish that I would not be listening to her accusations and threats anymore.  She quickly learned that if she wants to talk with me she has to keep it appropriate.  Same for e-mails - anything inappropriate will be copied to neutral third parties, like our Custody Evaluator - no secrets.  If she wants to abuse me, it won't be private.

You take a step back, away from the other party, and then another and another, til he isn't a very big part of your life.  You can't get him out of your life completely, because of the kids, but you look for ways to keep it simple and distant - to disengage.  It works (but not all at once).

[Forward2free]

My orders do say that BPD/Nxh needs to attend court ordered appointments at least every 2 months.

The latest family report recommendation suggests the psychologist report to me every 3 months in writing to confirm attendance.

More importantly to me, it has orders to say that if the psychologist is concerned about his behavior, he needs to contact me to ensure the children and I are adequately protected.

Negatives - BPD/Nxh just happened to go to a play centre that the psychologist was attending on a weekend with his kids and the supervisor chatted to him while the kids played together. At that point, the psychologist hadn't seen any of the court documents and based everything on BPD/Nxh's lies and fantasies about himself and thought he was a great guy with an ex-wife who was evil. The next report was more telling, but he is still confident he can help him.

The more he attends, the more leanings he has on what to say and how to say things. He is practicing his mirroring and getting so smooth at the process that he will pass everything with flying colours soon. I had to pay half of each evaluation that the court ordered and their opinion of him keeps getting better, even though his actions do not match his words. They use words in evaluations!

BPD/NPD do not change unless they are 100% committed to change, every day of their life. It is not a one-step process. A lifetime of behavior that "works" for them is impossible to change... .in my opinion.

I think it is better to teach the kids how to use and enforce boundaries, how to call for help, what is ok behavior and what is alarming etc.

[momtara]

"More importantly to me, it has orders to say that if the psychologist is concerned about his behavior, he needs to contact me to ensure the children and I are adequately protected."

This is useful.  Always good to know the provisions and language.

So how did you get the other side to agree to this?  Did you have some behavior documented?

[Matt]

My orders do say thadt BPD/Nxh needs to attend court ordered appointments at least every 2 months.

The latest family report recommendation suggests the psychologist report to me every 3 months in writing to confirm attendance.

More importantly to me, it has orders to say that if the psychologist is concerned about his behavior, he needs to contact me to ensure the children and I are adequately protected.

Negatives - BPD/Nxh just happened to go to a play centre that the psychologist was attending on a weekend with his kids and the supervisor chatted to him while the kids played together. At that point, the psychologist hadn't seen any of the court documents and based everything on BPD/Nxh's lies and fantasies about himself and thought he was a great guy with an ex-wife who was evil. The next report was more telling, but he is still confident he can help him.

The more he attends, the more leanings he has on what to say and how to say things. He is practicing his mirroring and getting so smooth at the process that he will pass everything with flying colours soon. I had to pay half of each evaluation that the court ordered and their opinion of him keeps getting better, even though his actions do not match his words. They use words in evaluations!

BPD/NPD do not change unless they are 100% committed to change, every day of their life. It is not a one-step process. A lifetime of behavior that "works" for them is impossible to change... .in my opinion.

I think it is better to teach the kids how to use and enforce boundaries, how to call for help, what is ok behavior and what is alarming etc.

This is why objective evaluations are critical - the MMPI-2 or something similar.  My wife's lies were part of the results - the test is designed to evaluate "false presentation".

[Forward2free]

Unfortunately, I couldn't get an order for MMPI-2 or similar here, was up to the forensic psychologist to choose his eval method, and it was entirely subjective. He was the one who diagnosed him BPD/N so that was a blessing at least.

Momtara - he has had to claw back through supervision to unsupervised so wasn't able to demand we drop the therapy orders. In fact, I think his L told him it was a good idea considering his psychologist had been so positive in his affidavits about treatment working etc.

BPD/Nxh ended up in a psych hospital for 2 weeks in 2009 after breaking in and destroying our home. He did $79,000 worth of damage/repairs, and was charged and given a suspended jail sentence. That along-with suicide attempts and anger management issues helped with me positioning treatment in order to have access with the children.

My request:

"That the husband continue undertaking regular psychiatric/psychological treatment."

His Lawyer's last proposal:

"That BPD/Nxh continues to attend his psychiatrist Dr XX for ongoing treatment for a period of no less than 6 months (upon provision by Dr XX of a letter stating that treatment is no longer required) and no more than 12 months at regular monthly intervals and BPD/Nxh shall abide by all reasonable recommendations as made to treatment as may be made by Dr XX.

That BPD/Nxh provide to Kormilda by email evidence on a monthly basis of his attendance with Dr XX in compliance with the above order."

Just saw this one that they added too... .

"That BPD/Nxh and Kormilda be restrained by injunction from denigrating the other parent or the other parents family within the presence or hearing of the children or either of them."  

For communication they propose:

"That save for communication in medical emergencies each of the parents do communicate with each other by email and such communication shall be limited to matters relevant to the welfare of the children and the implementation of this Order."  

Funny, I was looking for a solution to him wanting me to call him to discuss trivial matters and his Lawyer has come up with a solution for me. :-)

I'm back in court next month so these are not in place at the moment.

[momtara]

Yes, he wants to make it seem like HE is putting these things in place.  Who can understand how their brains work?  Seems very nice for you.

I wish my husband would do something overt like break into the house.  Then I could prove he's a danger.  Instead I get him claiming our kids are sick when they're not.  Grr.

[Forward2free]

I know what you mean! 

[livednlearned]

Yes, he wants to make it seem like HE is putting these things in place.  Who can understand how their brains work?  Seems very nice for you.

I wish my husband would do something overt like break into the house.  Then I could prove he's a danger.  Instead I get him claiming our kids are sick when they're not.  Grr.

N/BPDx's behavior got progressively worse over the years, and it does seem like it intensified after the divorce. Combination of legal problems, financial, the emotional strain of being abandoned, the stresses of taking care of S12 without me there. It was clear from his behavior that he found it difficult to think like a grown up and be responsible for two days straight when S12 was spending overnights.

N/BPDx also became hyper concerned about S12's safety. He sent a list to his lawyer and my lawyer about all the things S12 was not allowed to do, and it was absurd. Might as well lock S12 up. He also became extremely overbearing and paranoid about S12's health, even though he never was when we were married. I think it's part delusion, part determination. They want to show that they are better parents than us despite all the evidence. And control, too. N/BPDx seemed to almost enjoy when S12 was sick so he could tell me how to manage it.

I knew it was a matter of time before N/BPDx drank to excess while S12 was with him.  I thought S12 was going to call me late at night to say N/BPDx was passed out, and that S12 was hungry because no one made him dinner. Unfortunately, it was worse. Fortunately, it got the court's attention.

You probably have similar warning signs with your ex. What are your worst fears about what he might do?

[momtara]

I see my ex acting the same way, in regard to being very strict, which he is.  It comes from the OCD.

My big fears?  Well, one of the kids has food allergies.  Since my husband does things and claims he didn't do them, or has manipulative ways of getting around them, he could say, "I don't know how he got a peanut!" or "I didn't know that food had nuts in it!"  He hasn't done anything to put him in real physical danger yet, but he claimed last year, when he was in a bad argument with me, "Oh, you don't have to give him his antibiotic [for stre p throat].  I gave it to him already."  But he hadn't given it to him.  This is someone who says he cries because he misses the kids.  Yet he was fine not giving him medicine he needed, just to make a point.

I am more concerned for the younger kid.  Hubby didn't really want to have another kid and I pushed for one.  I could see him "accidentally" doing something to the baby, then calling me panicked.  "The baby's not breathing!  I don't know what happened!"  (Baby is almost 2, but still.)  (Yes, I am being vague about their genders in case he ever finds this, but I guess he'd know it was him anyhow.)

He doesn't have guns.  He just has these periods when he turns cold and into a different, unfeeling person.  I used to think it was just threats or to get my attention.  Now I think he's potentially dangerous if he gets triggered one day.  No one else sees it or they think he's just scared or making threats to get my attention.  I think that someone who is capable of false abuse claims or these smaller things could someday do worse.

He tends to think he understands our kids' emotions, and often puts HIS emotions on the kids.  He may decide our son is depressed and think he'd be better off not living.

Yes, these are extreme fears of mine.  However, the guys who kill their kids are often regular Yuppie white guys like my husband who are losing everything.  My husband has some health problems and he's not going to go get a new wife and start a new family.  He wants the family he had, before I got a restraining order due to his false claims of abuse and other nuttiness.

It is comforting to know that your husband did some similar type things and didn't intentionally hurt the kids.  I wish I could know for sure what to do.  I also wish I could get a psych eval done without going through a whole custody eval, but I've been told they come toghether.

[Jadedunicorn]

Here's how it worked for me - where I live:

* I filed a motion asking for a Custody Evaluator to be appointed - a Ph.D. psychologist who had been appointed by this court for other cases.  The motion was granted.

* The CE cost $5,000.  I had to pay it all, but I got half of it back in the settlement.

* The CE then asked each of us to take an objective test - the MMPI-2.  $500 each - we each paid for our own.

* The CE met with each of us, and with the kids, and talked by phone with my older kids (adults) and a few other people we both suggested.

* Then he wrote a report which said I had no disorders and my wife had "multiple psychological disorders".  He recommended shared custody, but said my son should probably spend more time with me when he got older.  The report also recommended psychotherapy for her, and that went into the court order.

* That was 5 years ago.  I don't think she ever got therapy, and we haven't been back to court.  But when we had a serious conflict, and worked with a court-appointed mediator, I knew I had a strong position, because if we went back to court I could show she hadn't complied with the court order.

The other thing to remember is - you could talk with any professional and they would tell you this - therapy won't be effective unless he is committed to it.  He can sit there for an hour and tell lies, or blame you for everything, and nothing will be accomplished.  That's why I haven't made an issue of it - if my ex was forced to get therapy nothing would be accomplished.

What exactly is required to get a evaluate and is there any way without cost?  I have also been wanting at least a GAL to be assigned but unsure how to do this either.

[Matt]

Here's how it worked for me - where I live:

* I filed a motion asking for a Custody Evaluator to be appointed - a Ph.D. psychologist who had been appointed by this court for other cases.  The motion was granted.

* The CE cost $5,000.  I had to pay it all, but I got half of it back in the settlement.

* The CE then asked each of us to take an objective test - the MMPI-2.  $500 each - we each paid for our own.

* The CE met with each of us, and with the kids, and talked by phone with my older kids (adults) and a few other people we both suggested.

* Then he wrote a report which said I had no disorders and my wife had "multiple psychological disorders".  He recommended shared custody, but said my son should probably spend more time with me when he got older.  The report also recommended psychotherapy for her, and that went into the court order.

* That was 5 years ago.  I don't think she ever got therapy, and we haven't been back to court.  But when we had a serious conflict, and worked with a court-appointed mediator, I knew I had a strong position, because if we went back to court I could show she hadn't complied with the court order.

The other thing to remember is - you could talk with any professional and they would tell you this - therapy won't be effective unless he is committed to it.  He can sit there for an hour and tell lies, or blame you for everything, and nothing will be accomplished.  That's why I haven't made an issue of it - if my ex was forced to get therapy nothing would be accomplished.

What exactly is required to get a evaluate and is there any way without cost?  I have also been wanting at least a GAL to be assigned but unsure how to do this either.

Where I live, you file a motion with the family court, giving your reasons.  I just put that there had been criminal accusations and a professional (our marriage counselor) had stated her belief that my wife might have one or more psychological disorders.  (In fact the counselor had told me she believed my wife had BPD.)  I asked for a CE to be appointed;  if I had it to do over again, I would specifically ask that the CE be instructed to base his recommendations on objective testing like the MMPI-2.

My attorney told me that when a motion like this is filed, the court will always grant it, unless nobody has the money to pay for it.

I had to pay the whole cost for the CE - $5,000 - but I got half back in the settlement.  We each paid $500 for our MMPI-2 testing.

A key point here is that we both took the test, so the court didn't have to assume who had what.  No bias - we both took the same test and let the chips fall where they may.

I don't know of a way to avoid the cost.  If you can find a way to get a CE appointed at no cost or affordable cost, the MMPI-2 is a smaller cost.  The cost for the MMPI-2 goes to the company that developed the test - they own it - so you probably can't get out of that.

[livednlearned]

However, the guys who kill their kids are often regular Yuppie white guys like my husband who are losing everything.  My husband has some health problems and he's not going to go get a new wife and start a new family.  He wants the family he had, before I got a restraining order due to his false claims of abuse and other nuttiness.

It is comforting to know that your husband did some similar type things and didn't intentionally hurt the kids.  I wish I could know for sure what to do.  I also wish I could get a psych eval done without going through a whole custody eval, but I've been told they come toghether.

This is exactly what my night from hell was about. My ex is a yuppie white guy losing everything. I thought he was going to kill himself and S12 a year ago when he had his psychotic break. Important to note that he had adderall, alcohol, and ambien in his system, plus a pain killer. That, mixed with BPD paranoia, probably bipolar, some OCD and ADHD. So he worked pretty hard on creating psychosis for himself.

I really, really understand the anxiety and the dread. But that night changed me more profoundly than anything else in my life. I'm not the same person. I think I used up my whole tank of anxiety and dread that night.

Emotionally and psychologically, I shed a lot of codependent stuff that day. N/BPDx is a broken slab of pavement to me. Would be great if he were fixed, but that's not my job. Has he changed? No. He's still the same ill man. He's still dangerous and unstable. He still drinks and sends threatening emails with wacky logic that makes no sense. He's still dragging me to court and I'm still in debt. He could kill himself. He could kill my son. He could kill me.

But I feel different about it all. It's now a really nasty problem I have to manage. I wish I didn't have to, but I do. I'm still very careful, I pay extremely close attention, I use the courts to my advantage as much as I can, thanks to the advice I've taken from friends here. But the anxiety -- be careful about that. Anxiety is a form of imagination. It's also a corrosive acid that will erode you from the inside out. You have control over that.

You don't have control over your ex.

None of us do  :'(

[momtara]

See, a psych eval and a custody evaluator are two different people, right?  You can't do one without the other in my state, is my understanding.  The CE will go to the kids' schools, etc etc. and ask questions.  The whole process will take months.  I don't necessarily mind that, but there is also the small factor that we are now putting it all in the court's hands and taking it out of ours.  A court can do anything.  It could grant my hubby more time.  I don't think it would be much more, though.

I guess I am scared of what my husband might do, but also scared to take this big step.

If I had asked for an eval in the beginning, it would be easier now.  Now I have to kind of do it as an emergency order. The problem was, in the beginning, he was acting semi ok.