"True love" = love+pain?

[Need2Know]

Naomi Watts once said that "a real love story needs a certain amount of pain" when she played the role of Lady Diana. That is also the case for classic love dramas such as Romeo and Juliet.

Is that also true for love stories in real life?

Yes I think so. I use to think of my exBPDgf as "the love of my life". I have never been so in love with anyone before. We had some fantastic moments together, but she also pushed me away, hated me, raged at me, and tried to hurt me with silent treatments. She triggered off an extreme emotional rollercauster.

I love my wife too, but in a more modest way. She never pushed me away or hated me. Our relationship is rather based on trust and care.

So I guess that also real life love stories need a bit of pain. At least that was the case for me.

Does anyone else have similar experiences?

[Escaped 30.Sept.2013]

I think the answer is in the precise wording.

A "real love story" includes a certain amount of pain.

"Real love" doesn't require any pain at all.

One is a story... .the other is actual, lasting, genuine love... .sometimes real love may involve some pain, but it doesn't *require* it!

[laelle]

I absolutely believed that the more pain I endured the more "True Love" it was.  It was written in my Core script, and the media, literature and other sources only contribute to this belief.

[happylogist]

I think the answer is in the precise wording.

A "real love story" includes a certain amount of pain.

"Real love" doesn't require any pain at all.

One is a story... .the other is actual, lasting, genuine love... .sometimes real love may involve some pain, but it doesn't *require* it!

Agree so much! And also "real love story" includes time factor and reciprocity.  Pain comes from fighting to be together, those are either environmental or personal problems (like substance abuse or something like that) - for me it is together fighting for being together - this is the source of pain if the situation is not favorable, rather than one hates/pushes/pulls/hurts, the other - proves and rescues.

I absolutely believed that the more pain I endured the more "True Love" it was.  It was written in my Core script, and the media, literature and other sources only contribute to this belief.

The same! That was my recent realization - there are so many false concepts engraved in my brain... . 

[Clearmind]

If you love someone why would you want to cause them pain - and this is vice versa!

Love based on fantasy causes pain because you both try and change each other and vie for a position in the relationship. Not only do you each suffer but the relationship suffers!

True love = mutual respect, admiration and trust

Need2Know, healthy relationships with healthy boundaries does not cause pain.

Characteristics of a Healthy Relationship

Some of the characteristics of a healthy relationship are:

Respect - listening to one another, valuing each other's opinions, and listening in a non-judgmental manner. Respect also involves attempting to understand and affirm the other's emotions.

Trust and support - supporting each other's goals in life, and respecting each other's right to his/her own feelings, opinions, friends, activities and interest. It is valuing one's partner as an individual.

Honesty and accountability - communicating openly and truthfully, admitting mistakes or being wrong, acknowledging past use of violence, and accepting responsibility for one's self.

Shared responsibility - making family/relationship decisions together, mutually agreeing on a distribution of work which is fair to both partners. If parents, the couple shares parental responsibilities and acts as positive, non-violent role models for the children.

Economic partnership - in marriage or cohabitation, making financial decisions together, and making sure both partners benefit from financial arrangements.

Negotiation and fairness - being willing to compromise, accepting change, and seeking mutually satisfying solutions to conflict.

Non-threatening behavior - talking and acting in a way that promotes both partners' feelings of safety in the relationship. Both should feel comfortable and safe in expressing him/herself and in engaging in activities.

More here: https://bpdfamily.com/bpdresources/nk_a115.htm

[Need2Know]

Yes, I have realized after breaking up from my exBPDgf that real love is based on mutual respect, admiration and trust. That is the kind of re-vitalized relationship I have with my wife nowadays.

That's why I put "true love" in quotation marks in the heading. Even more accurate wording is of course "true love story". Such love story is interesting to watch at a movie, but it is painful to experience in real life.

The "true love story" I had with my exBPDgf has however left some mental scars, and sometimes I still think of her as the "love of my life". But those memories are fading out while I am recovering.

[houseofswans]

I absolutely believed that the more pain I endured the more "True Love" it was.  It was written in my Core script, and the media, literature and other sources only contribute to this belief.

Very wise words 

[houseofswans]

Yes, I have realized after breaking up from my exBPDgf that real love is based on mutual respect, admiration and trust. That is the kind of re-vitalized relationship I have with my wife nowadays.

That's so good that you have met, and married someone with whom you have respect, admiration and trust.

Can I ask you that before you met your wife, did you think (like many on here) that you'd never meet anyone like your ex again because of the false love?

You know, that she was so special... .?

[hopealways]

I think the answer is in the precise wording.

A "real love story" includes a certain amount of pain.

"Real love" doesn't require any pain at all.

One is a story... .the other is actual, lasting, genuine love... .sometimes real love may involve some pain, but it doesn't *require* it!

Precisely! The painful "love" is not real love.  It is pain which is brought to the surface by our core wounds which happened way before we met our SO.

[HarmKrakow]

True love doesn't exist. (Read Jorge Bucay about this, has written very nice books about this subject, about true love and all).

Love (the chemical reaction in your head) can exist. But this eventually (if a good match) should slowly change (from passionate love) to compassion. as the chemical reaction always slowly dies out.

A friendship, a relationship, work, school, etc. There is always a certain amount of pain. But that's ok. Without pain, no true realization how good, a "GOOD' feeling feels.

[Need2Know]

Hi houseofswans,

"Can I ask you that before you met your wife, did you think (like many on here) that you'd never meet anyone like your ex again because of the false love?

You know, that she was so special... .?"

Actually I had been married ten years before I met my exBPDgf. Me and my wife had gone through some hard times that time, so I got a mid-life crisis and wanted a change in my life. Then I met my exBPDgf and fell in love with her. After a while she started the BPD dance (push/pull, idealization/devaluation, love/hate), and finally we broke up. My wife knows about my affair, but she has forgiven me (she had an affair as well and even admitted that she played a role in my mid-life crisis), so our marriage is back on track now and even re-vitalized.

Sometimes I still think of the exBPDgf as the "love of my life", because that love affair felt like being in an dramatic love movie such as Betty Blue. But I realize more and more that I have confused real love with a dramatic and even painful love story. It isn't so funny to live in a Betty Blue movie, after all.

[HarmKrakow]

Hi houseofswans,

"Can I ask you that before you met your wife, did you think (like many on here) that you'd never meet anyone like your ex again because of the false love?

You know, that she was so special... .?"

Actually I had been married ten years before I met my exBPDgf. Me and my wife had gone through some hard times that time, so I got a mid-life crisis and wanted a change in my life. Then I met my exBPDgf and fell in love with her. After a while she started the BPD dance (push/pull, idealization/devaluation, love/hate), and finally we broke up. My wife knows about my affair, but she has forgiven me (she had an affair as well and even admitted that she played a role in my mid-life crisis), so our marriage is back on track now and even re-vitalized.

Sometimes I still think of the exBPDgf as the "love of my life", because that love affair felt like being in an dramatic love movie such as Betty Blue. But I realize more and more that I have confused real love with a dramatic and even painful love story. It isn't so funny to live in a Betty Blue movie, after all.

That does seem quite good, that all in all, your life cracked, and got repaired after all and you learned a valuable lesson

[DreamGirl]

The love of my life? Is me.

How narcississtic does that sound?

I hated myself for a long time though. I really did. FOO issues, trauma in childhood and a victim mindset landing me in abusive relationships, drugs and alcohol, teen pregnancy... .

I think we all want so much to be loved. Feel lovable.

It's the antidote you thought you found to the mid-life crisis.

The rush of it. The thrill of it. The validation. The sense of new beginnings. The alternate route in an ants-go-marching-two-by-two life. The happily ever after.

If only life were so simple.

I don't know so much that you were deeply, profoundly in love with the exGF. I think you perhaps were in love with how she made you feel.

It's the best kept secret in all of this. Falling in love doesn't have to involve someone else who becomes the source of your happiness. It's falling in love... .with a new hobby that brings you joy. Whether it's painting or an over-50 baseball league. A trip to Italy or Bali to mingle with those who know how to do nothing at all. Learning to nuture a marriage - so you once again look at your wife with a teenage longing. It's the black dress you buy her. The suit that makes you feel handsome.  

Perhaps it would help to reframe your thoughts as her being the "love of your life". That you are somehow missing out on it now. It might help to see her as just a stepping stone to kickstart you getting to know the real loves of your life.

To fall in love with your life again.

[Learning_curve74]

I believe that pain is a part of everybody's life simply because pain is a mechanism that tells you something is wrong, and since nothing is perfect everybody will experience pain during their life.

Does a "true love story" NEED pain? Nope. I wouldn't be surprised if most pwBPD believe it does though... . 

[Need2Know]

Hi Dreamgirl,

Thanks for your story.

Here is how I would like to summarize my relationships:

* My wife is my soul mate and the best friend in my life.

* My exBPDgf was the Betty Blueish love story of my life.

A friend of my told me once: "It might seem cool to be in a Betty Blue relationship at the movies, but after a while you get fed up with all the problems and quarrels. Then you need to be together with a friend instead."

Hi learning_curve74,

":)oes a "true love story" NEED pain? Nope. I wouldn't be surprised if most pwBPD believe it does though... ."

My exBPDgf certainly believed that a true love story needed pain. And she happily shared the pain with me. And I got co-dependent to her pain and problems.

[HarmKrakow]

Hi Dreamgirl,

Thanks for your story.

Here is how I would like to summarize my relationships:

* My wife is my soul mate and the best friend in my life.

* My exBPDgf was the Betty Blueish love story of my life.

A friend of my told me once: "It might seem cool to be in a Betty Blue relationship at the movies, but after a while you get fed up with all the problems and quarrels. Then you need to be together with a friend instead."

Hi learning_curve74,

":)oes a "true love story" NEED pain? Nope. I wouldn't be surprised if most pwBPD believe it does though... ."

My exBPDgf certainly believed that a true love story needed pain. And she happily shared the pain with me. And I got co-dependent to her pain and problems.

I don't want to be sounding like an ass, but how could you have left the best friend of your life and your soulmate for the betty blueish love story of your life? That doesn't match i'm afraid.

[DreamGirl]

I don't want to take away from your experience. I am sure this is very true of how you feel:

Here is how I would like to summarize my relationships:

* My wife is my soul mate and the best friend in my life.

* My exBPDgf was the Betty Blueish love story of my life.

Confession.

I had to google Betty Blue. Never heard of it.

Roger Ebert watched it... .this was his take circa 1986:

What is Bieneix trying to say in "Betty Blue"? I am not sure. The behavior of the characters is senseless and boring. We lose interest in Zorg because anyone who could tolerate Betty Blue would scarcely have the discrimination to write a good book. One scene follows another senselessly, like in a soap opera, until Betty goes mad and we can go home.

There is a certain irony of Ebert's inability to appreciate the movie. He genuinely, wholely loved his wife. He wrote one of the most memorable letters about her on his website of this "true love" you talk about. He cherished her and cherished her actual ability to love him back. He accredits her to saving his life when he was in the depths of hoplessness due to his cancer.

I think that's the commonality I see in so many of these stories.  Life is not a movie or a love song... .and passion and dysfunction can only sustain itself for so long.

I hope you realize that true love is not pain. Pain is a part of life, yes. Suffering, however, is a choice that we make.

~DG

   

[HarmKrakow]

I don't want to take away from your experience. I am sure this is very true of how you feel:

Here is how I would like to summarize my relationships:

* My wife is my soul mate and the best friend in my life.

* My exBPDgf was the Betty Blueish love story of my life.

Confession.

I had to google Betty Blue. Never heard of it.

Roger Ebert watched it... .this was his take circa 1986:

What is Bieneix trying to say in "Betty Blue"? I am not sure. The behavior of the characters is senseless and boring. We lose interest in Zorg because anyone who could tolerate Betty Blue would scarcely have the discrimination to write a good book. One scene follows another senselessly, like in a soap opera, until Betty goes mad and we can go home.

There is a certain irony of Ebert's inability to appreciate the movie. He genuinely, wholely loved his wife. He wrote one of the most memorable letters about her on his website of this "true love" you talk about. He cherished her and cherished her actual ability to love him back. He accredits her to saving his life when he was in the depths of hoplessness due to his cancer.

I think that's the commonality I see in so many of these stories.  Life is not a movie or a love song... .and passion and dysfunction can only sustain itself for so long.

I hope you realize that true love is not pain. Pain is a part of life, yes. Suffering, however, is a choice that we make.

~DG

   

[Need2Know]

HarmKrkow,

"I don't want to be sounding like an ass, but how could you have left the best friend of your life and your soulmate for the betty blueish love story of your life? That doesn't match i'm afraid."

Well, that's just because you don't know me and this short summary does not tell the whole story of my relationships.

Let me explain a bit more:

A few years ago me and my wife had a crisis. We went through some hard times, and due to this our relationship didn't work out that well. Then I needed a change in my life and met my exBPDgf. At that time I had no idea that she had borderline. We fell in love, and then the BPD dance started. After a few months of push/pull, love/hate, idealization/devaluation we broke up. Then I was totally devastated and heart broken. That was the "betty blueish love story of my life".

Then I told my wife about it. She was really empathic did forgive me (and it turned out that she had an affair as well). From that point our relationship was re-vitalized and it is better than before. Now I have realized that my wife is indeed my soul mate and friend of my life. But I had to go through the Betty Blue love story to come to that conclusion.

You may read my complete story here if you are interested: https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=210451.msg12319924#msg12319924.

Makes more sense now?

[HarmKrakow]

HarmKrkow,

"I don't want to be sounding like an ass, but how could you have left the best friend of your life and your soulmate for the betty blueish love story of your life? That doesn't match i'm afraid."

Well, that's just because you don't know me and this short summary does not tell the whole story of my relationships.

Let me explain a bit more:

A few years ago me and my wife had a crisis. We went through some hard times, and due to this our relationship didn't work out that well. Then I needed a change in my life and met my exBPDgf. At that time I had no idea that she had borderline. We fell in love, and then the BPD dance started. After a few months of push/pull, love/hate, idealization/devaluation we broke up. Then I was totally devastated and heart broken. That was the "betty blueish love story of my life".

Then I told my wife about it. She was really empathic did forgive me (and it turned out that she had an affair as well). From that point our relationship was re-vitalized and it is better than before. Now I have realized that my wife is indeed my soul mate and friend of my life. But I had to go through the Betty Blue love story to come to that conclusion.

You may read my complete story here if you are interested: https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=210451.msg12319924#msg12319924.

Makes more sense now?

It does.

I just thought that that doesn't happen with people who are considered soulmates and best friends I'm sorry. Especially because you often hear on this boards that people went from soulmates to worst people on earth within a short period in BPD relationships. I think (we purely differ in opinion which is fine) that bad stuff doesn't need to happen to realize someone is a soul mate.

[Need2Know]

Hi HarmKrkow,

Well, relationships may change and evolve over time. So did my relationship to my wife.

A few years ago a lot of bad things happened to us: her sister died, our daughter got diagnosed with ADD, my wife got unemployed etc. Due to that our relationship was almost falling apart, and as an effect of that I started dating the BPD, and then I got heart broken by the BPD dance. Then I found my way back to my wife again, our marriage was re-vitalized, and I realized that she was indeed my best friend ever. I simply couldn't leave her and probably never can.

We may have different definitions of the words "soul mate", but this corresponds to my view at least.

[HarmKrakow]

Hi HarmKrkow,

Well, relationships may change and evolve over time. So did my relationship to my wife.

A few years ago a lot of bad things happened to us: her sister died, our daughter got diagnosed with ADD, my wife got unemployed etc. Due to that our relationship was almost falling apart, and as an effect of that I started dating the BPD, and then I got heart broken by the BPD dance. Then I found my way back to my wife again, our marriage was re-vitalized, and I realized that she was indeed my best friend ever. I simply couldn't leave her and probably never can.

We may have different definitions of the words "soul mate", but this corresponds to my view at least.

Oh but I do agree with you a lot, don't worry.

I mean it's completely true that you often(! ... not always) realize what you miss the moment you don't have it anymore. This might also have been the case for you

[Need2Know]

Hi Dreamgirl,

Betty Blue is a French movie from the 80's. It is about a crazy making girl, and a guy that fells deeply in love with her, although she goes insane more or less. Some people talk about "Betty Blue relationships", which is essentially equivalent to a "BPD relationship".

[HarmKrakow]

Damsel in distress no?

[Need2Know]

Hi  HarmKrkow,

"I mean it's completely true that you often (! ... not always) realize what you miss the moment you don't have it anymore. This might also have been the case for you."

Oh yes, that was absolutely the case for me and my wife!

The exBPDgf wanted me to divorce from my wife, she almost persuaded me to do so, although I was hesitating due to the BPD dance. But I was so in love to the exBPDgf so I finally told my wife that I wanted to divorce. I thought it would be easy since our marriage had been stone cold for the past years. But my wife almost panicked. She really wanted me to stay, at least for the children’s sake, and wanted to repair our relationship. I got devastated when I saw her sadness. It was a lot harder than I thought to break up after a ten years long relationship. So then I decided to stay with my wife and kids.

"You don't miss what you have until it's gone."