Entitlement, Push-Pull, Remorse (), Honesty, and Healing

[VIDEO: "What is parental alienation?"]

After the talk with my "teen mom" exBPD last night, she has been spending all of her time in the evenings looking like crazy for a place to live. I was helping her out getting paperwork, kids' info, our old address (which I had on some paperwork... .I never thought myself organized, but was working on that before I met her). After her bemoaning the fact that it was so expensive (we live in one of hottest rental markets in the USA, very hard), she was filling out affordable housing apps, which in comment about children, made it seem like the father was de facto absent and irresponsible. Doesn't seem yet like she will go after me for child support, even with 50/50 I could be liable for a lot, but I am prepared all the same. I told her I paid over half of their support, and she scoffed, reminding me that she pays for their childcare, her "contribution" to the household. I looked at her and said, "I house them, pay for their insurance, most medical expenses, food, 529 plan... ." It wasn't worth throwing out that I paid for HER "rent" so she could pay for their childcare, so I pay for it by proxy anyway. AND, I she hasn't contributed any "rent" or anything appreciable to the household for three months (at least she admits this). But whatever... .She went back to doing what she was doing.

I called a friend out of state and updated him on everything, because I hadn't talked to him yet. I admitted I couldn't talk to him in the beginning because he cheated on his wife years ago (and they then divorced... .he emotionally abused her, too during that time) and it was too much for me to talk to him. He got it. I came back inside and helped her with some more paperwork. Locked the kids' info in my safe, told her who had the other key in case I kicked the bucket sometime (you never know).

Last spring, I had gotten us concert tickets to one of her favorite singers. She reminded me that it was coming up this Friday and did I still want to go with her. I kind of broke down and said, something like "there is nothing more than I would like to, but I can't pretend. I can't live a lie, like we are just buddies and six years and two kids meant nothing this quickly." About that time, she broke down too and said, ":)o you think this is easy for me either?". She was crying, so was I, and I violated my NC/NT(ouching) rule I'd kept in place for the last three weeks and went over and held her. Then I actually got the closest thing to real remorse and an "I'm sorry for my 'mistake' [affair]" out of her. I looked her in the eye and said, "thank you, THAT sounds like real remorse unlike before." It was around 85-90%, but that's a lot better than a lot of us get, if any. I can forgive later... .I said, take one of your girlfriends, but NOT that POS, don't do that to me, please.

Then we sat down and talked a bit. She said talking about things helped her. I said the opposite, but I was willing to bite. She admitted being such a b*tch to me and mistreating me, and then went the other way how I ignored her and "rejected" her (true to an extent at the time) and she got more angry and resentful towards me. I said (again, we've had this conversation twice before in the past two months), "that is a vicious feedback loop that needed a professional to referee and help us, but it's too late... ." Then I did some digs, as kind as I could be, about ours being the most mature and complete relationship she will ever have. She replied, "so you don't think I am capable of a relationship?" Not angry, just inquiring. I said, "no, I think you can, but I don't think you can keep it up for this long, and for sure not as complete as ours, if only because of the kids. No one will ever be there for you through a hard pregnancy again [because she got herself "fixed"], no one will ever be there by your side through 20+ hours of hard labor, trying as best as I could to feel your pain, crying and appreciating what you were going through for our children. Getting up at all hours of the night for the first six months for feedings and colic, raising them together as they grow. No one!"

She considered that and then did some more jabs, saying that she needed someone to guide her and lead her. I replied that that wasn't the sign of a mature relationship. One CAN be stronger than the other in certain areas, complementary, but that it was too much, along with the mistreatment and abuse. Certainly not a 23 year old kid. I also said that I never wanted to meet that POS. She said, "really?" (as if it were normal). I said that later I realize you will have relationships and I will, but not this guy. No way. And I said he wouldn't last long anyway (her silence confirmed that she was still in contact with him, even if they "cooled it off". I also said that it wouldn't last anyway when his parents found out... .older chick (even if she could pass for ten years younger, it's still reality) with two kids? He'll be gone after a while. She was silent at that, because she knows... .She offered again about going out on the faux date. I said, "I think there will be opportunities for that down the road... " meaning I know she will be alone after this guy, and another, and after healing, we might be able to go out as friends. This is the mother of our children, and I will have to have a friendly relationship, I just need her gone so I can process and heal.

Then it was calmer, more crying a bit on both our sides, nothing too dramatic. We started talking about the kids and felt better. I said the one thing we always did well was parent together. She smiled, then I offered a high give, which she returned. She then said something like, "when you meet someone later, I hope that you keep the kids in mind, leaving them the house." I replied that I had already stipulated in the will (not finalized, in limbo now) that she could live there and the kids couldn't kick her out as long as she paid the mortgage (if any) and upkeep. Will alter that now. I didn't through out that if I were to marry, it would become community property anyway. She actually doesn't know that she will get almost a million dollars of insurance and assets (not counting SS benefits for the kids) if I did die. I will alter that, but probably keep some percentage to go to her to help. Not much, because the SS benefit will be quite a lot, at least on her salary. I also said I was kind of insulted that she thought I would abandon my children. "They are my children, aren't they?" Dirty look, "I know they are my children, even if they weren't they are! And I will take care of them." I know that's a bit mean... .

I really think the fire is under her now because I asked her on Sunday to stop going out at all hours of the night while I stayed home to take care of the kids. Not the sign of responsibility, hence my previous moniker of "teen mom." I didn't feel the need to be quite that mean, but I was firm and set the boundary, especially when I said that I felt she was taking advantage of my patience and kindness. She does respect that, being quite high functioning, but that motivates her even more to keep that promise, but she is indeed itching to go do what she is going do to. Her 7/7 offer of custody telegraphs that intent (a whole week to go out and get it out of her system... .but it will never get out because at the core it's who she is). So detente again for now. I realized it was good to have that talk, and even that physical contact. I resented that she needed it, but I realized that I needed it, too. It helps detach, while she is here.

[Turkish]

After the talk with my "teen mom" exBPD last night, she has been spending all of her time in the evenings looking like crazy for a place to live. I was helping her out getting paperwork, kids' info, our old address (which I had on some paperwork... .I never thought myself organized, but was working on that before I met her). After her bemoaning the fact that it was so expensive (we live in one of hottest rental markets in the USA, very hard), she was filling out affordable housing apps, which in comment about children, made it seem like the father was de facto absent and irresponsible. Doesn't seem yet like she will go after me for child support, even with 50/50 I could be liable for a lot, but I am prepared all the same. I told her I paid over half of their support, and she scoffed, reminding me that she pays for their childcare, her "contribution" to the household. I looked at her and said, "I house them, pay for their insurance, most medical expenses, food, 529 plan... ." It wasn't worth throwing out that I paid for HER "rent" so she could pay for their childcare, so I pay for it by proxy anyway. AND, I she hasn't contributed any "rent" or anything appreciable to the household for three months (at least she admits this). But whatever... .She went back to doing what she was doing.

I called a friend out of state and updated him on everything, because I hadn't talked to him yet. I admitted I couldn't talk to him in the beginning because he cheated on his wife years ago (and they then divorced... .he emotionally abused her, too during that time) and it was too much for me to talk to him. He got it. I came back inside and helped her with some more paperwork. Locked the kids' info in my safe, told her who had the other key in case I kicked the bucket sometime (you never know).

Last spring, I had gotten us concert tickets to one of her favorite singers. She reminded me that it was coming up this Friday and did I still want to go with her. I kind of broke down and said, something like "there is nothing more than I would like to, but I can't pretend. I can't live a lie, like we are just buddies and six years and two kids meant nothing this quickly." About that time, she broke down too and said, ":)o you think this is easy for me either?". She was crying, so was I, and I violated my NC/NT(ouching) rule I'd kept in place for the last three weeks and went over and held her. Then I actually got the closest thing to real remorse and an "I'm sorry for my 'mistake' [affair]" out of her. I looked her in the eye and said, "thank you, THAT sounds like real remorse unlike before." It was around 85-90%, but that's a lot better than a lot of us get, if any. I can forgive later... .I said, take one of your girlfriends, but NOT that POS, don't do that to me, please.

Then we sat down and talked a bit. She said talking about things helped her. I said the opposite, but I was willing to bite. She admitted being such a b*tch to me and mistreating me, and then went the other way how I ignored her and "rejected" her (true to an extent at the time) and she got more angry and resentful towards me. I said (again, we've had this conversation twice before in the past two months), "that is a vicious feedback loop that needed a professional to referee and help us, but it's too late... ." Then I did some digs, as kind as I could be, about ours being the most mature and complete relationship she will ever have. She replied, "so you don't think I am capable of a relationship?" Not angry, just inquiring. I said, "no, I think you can, but I don't think you can keep it up for this long, and for sure not as complete as ours, if only because of the kids. No one will ever be there for you through a hard pregnancy again [because she got herself "fixed"], no one will ever be there by your side through 20+ hours of hard labor, trying as best as I could to feel your pain, crying and appreciating what you were going through for our children. Getting up at all hours of the night for the first six months for feedings and colic, raising them together as they grow. No one!"

She considered that and then did some more jabs, saying that she needed someone to guide her and lead her. I replied that that wasn't the sign of a mature relationship. One CAN be stronger than the other in certain areas, complementary, but that it was too much, along with the mistreatment and abuse. Certainly not a 23 year old kid. I also said that I never wanted to meet that POS. She said, "really?" (as if it were normal). I said that later I realize you will have relationships and I will, but not this guy. No way. And I said he wouldn't last long anyway (her silence confirmed that she was still in contact with him, even if they "cooled it off". I also said that it wouldn't last anyway when his parents found out... .older chick (even if she could pass for ten years younger, it's still reality) with two kids? He'll be gone after a while. She was silent at that, because she knows... .She offered again about going out on the faux date. I said, "I think there will be opportunities for that down the road... " meaning I know she will be alone after this guy, and another, and after healing, we might be able to go out as friends. This is the mother of our children, and I will have to have a friendly relationship, I just need her gone so I can process and heal.

Then it was calmer, more crying a bit on both our sides, nothing too dramatic. We started talking about the kids and felt better. I said the one thing we always did well was parent together. She smiled, then I offered a high give, which she returned. She then said something like, "when you meet someone later, I hope that you keep the kids in mind, leaving them the house." I replied that I had already stipulated in the will (not finalized, in limbo now) that she could live there and the kids couldn't kick her out as long as she paid the mortgage (if any) and upkeep. Will alter that now. I didn't through out that if I were to marry, it would become community property anyway. She actually doesn't know that she will get almost a million dollars of insurance and assets (not counting SS benefits for the kids) if I did die. I will alter that, but probably keep some percentage to go to her to help. Not much, because the SS benefit will be quite a lot, at least on her salary. I also said I was kind of insulted that she thought I would abandon my children. "They are my children, aren't they?" Dirty look, "I know they are my children, even if they weren't they are! And I will take care of them." I know that's a bit mean... .

I really think the fire is under her now because I asked her on Sunday to stop going out at all hours of the night while I stayed home to take care of the kids. Not the sign of responsibility, hence my previous moniker of "teen mom." I didn't feel the need to be quite that mean, but I was firm and set the boundary, especially when I said that I felt she was taking advantage of my patience and kindness. She does respect that, being quite high functioning, but that motivates her even more to keep that promise, but she is indeed itching to go do what she is going do to. Her 7/7 offer of custody telegraphs that intent (a whole week to go out and get it out of her system... .but it will never get out because at the core it's who she is). So detente again for now. I realized it was good to have that talk, and even that physical contact. I resented that she needed it, but I realized that I needed it, too. It helps detach, while she is here.

[Turkish]

One other thing I forgot to mention is that when she first got home with the kids, she had me watch them while she was filling out applications. Our son was running around the house doing his 3 year old thing, and she threw out the f-bomb at him. I looked at her, pointed my finger, and said, "THAT is not acceptable!" then she retreated back to the office. I know she is dis-regulated and in a lot of pain and confusion right now, but what the hell?

[GreenMango]

Hard stuff.  Sometimes the quiet somber moments are harder than a big blowup. 

Turkish I wanted to move this to the family law board but you seem to have a handle on that part and it looks like you are working thru the emotional part.

It's good to see the kids well being as mutual and trying to work towards that is good plan.  I don't know if you post on the parenting board but it may give some good feedback if you try it out too.

It's ugly business and I'm sorry to hear you guys going thru it.

. This is the mother of our children, and I will have to have a friendly relationship, I just need her gone so I can process and heal.

That is important.