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Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits. Practicing lawyer, Senior Family Mediator, and former Licensed Clinical Social Worker with twelve years’ experience and an expert on navigating the Family Court process.
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Author Topic: when your friends expect you to "get over it"  (Read 400 times)
leftbehind
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« on: October 21, 2013, 05:37:14 PM »

Hi, I just had to write because this morning I had a very bad dream about my exBPDbf in which I saw my replacement.  I even got a specific name of a real person that I know exists, although I think the message may be symbolic. 

Anyway, just after I woke up a friend of mine who knows the events of the breakup called me.  I started to tell her about my dream, and about the person mentioned in the dream as his replacement.  I knew my friend knew this girl from way back, but hasn't seen her in many years.  (I know she also thinks quite well of this girl).

After I tell my friend the dream, she starts going on as to how I have all this anger at my ex, and that I need to let it go.  It felt like she was taking his side, and just telling me to "get over it!".  I know rationally that she wasn't taking his side, but the "get over it!" is how she really feels.  I'm sure she's sick of hearing it after 7 months, and people don't understand what a trauma it is to be idealized, devalued, and discarded overnight. 

So I made the comment that I hoped she wasn't going to suddenly start liking my ex (not romantically, just socially).  The reason I said this is that my friend is still part of the community that I walked away from when my exBPDbf broke up with me.  It was a place of employment as well as a social hub.  Almost everyone there became so enamored of my ex (he's very charming) that they have nothing but wonderful things to say about him.  Meanwhile, people that knew me for years never followed up with me, never called to see how I was doing or what happened.  Since I was the one who chose to leave the job (to save my sanity) he got to stay and keep all the friends that were formally mine (some for 20 years prior to him showing up). 

My friend got so insulted that she said, "if you say that again I'm going to hang up on you."  We started talking about something else, and then looking for reassurance I said, "So you're not all of a sudden going to jump on my ex's bandwagon (like everyone else already had!)"  Click!  She hangs up the phone on me.

I'm really upset that people don't get how much of a trauma this is.  I'm upset because barring someone swearing at me and calling me names, I would never hang up on a friend like that.  I guess I don't understand her extreme reaction.  I know it was a case of her feeling like "how dare you accuse me of that!"  But the fact is that pretty much everyone else in that community sees him as a cross between an adorable eccentric, and a spiritual guru.

Anyway, I'm not planning on calling my friend back, as she hung up on me.  I guess I was needy and looking for support that she wasn't being charmed or bamboozled by him.  But I really don't believe that what I said was cause for her to hang up on me.  Suffice it to say that the stress of being discarded by my exBPDbf and the subsequent needing to talk it over with friends has taken its toll on at least two relationships for me. 

Has anyone else experienced their own version of this?  I'm trying not to feel worse than I already do.  In the past I'd be super quick to apologize for daring to insult my friend by suggesting that my ex might win her over.  But I can't bring myself to apologize to someone who hung up on me.  Yes, I guess from her perspective I questioned her integrity.  But really, I was just looking for reassurance that she was and will remain my friend throughout all of this. 

Just more fallout from a breakup with a BPD... .
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Ironmanrises
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« Reply #1 on: October 21, 2013, 05:58:07 PM »

The problem is... .

The close friends... .

Are not going to see... .

What you experienced.

They will see... .

Your ex... .

Seemingly happy... .

Charming... .

"Moving on"... .

And what not.

They wont understand... .

That... .

All of that... .

Is just an... .

Appearance... .

By the pwBPD.

They indirectly... .

Enable the pwBPD... .

By believing... .

That appearance... .

Which in turn... .

Undermines you... .

The non.

Almost like... .

A reverse cascade reaction.

It was not that dissimilar for me.

I remember... .

Attempting to show... .

My close friends... .

My exUBPDgf instagram pics... .

That were depicting... .

Her devaluing behavior... .

Aimed at me.

Problem is... .

They saw... .

What was the masked appearance... .

Of my ex smiling in the pics... .

And in turn... .

Would tell me... .

"But Ironmanfalls... .

She is smiling in the pic... .

Maybe she is not happy with you... .

Maybe she is just not that into you... .

You need to get over it... ."

They didnt get it... .

At all.

Of course not.

It wasnt being done... .

To them.

No matter how much... .

I showed them... .

Otherwise.

And that hurts.

I have since... .

Secluded myself... .

From them.

I had enough invalidation... .

To last me multiple lifetimes.

So i can understand... .

What you must be feeling.

We understand you here.

Hang in there. 

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Khenkis

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« Reply #2 on: October 21, 2013, 07:54:28 PM »

Hello leftbehind,

First and foremost  !

Its really unfair how others think we're just overly sensitive individuals who have just "gotten out of a former relationship and can't get over it". What they fail to realize is that we were abused, manipulated, stripped of our identities, etc. You can't just "get over it" as if it were like a non-BPD relationship - ignorance is bliss.

Keep posting, reading posts/articles on the forum, and above all else, we're all here for you.  





 

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leftbehind
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« Reply #3 on: October 21, 2013, 08:24:26 PM »

Thank you both for your comments

I feel badly about my friend, but I guess I need to let it go for the moment.  It's weird, because this dream came after I had a few really good days.  I finally thought I was putting all this behind me.  I believe sometimes dreams are a way for your subconscious to process emotions and experiences.  Even though I had been feeling good in the daytime, I think my brain is still processing the fact of him moving on so quickly, when I haven't been dating or being romantic with anyone in the last seven months.  (Except a couple of dates with someone who I wasn't remotely interested in, which at the time made me feel worse). 

So I felt like I was really moving on, and then Wham!  This dream, and then the fight with a friend who has been one of my biggest supporters. Until she reached her limit and got sick of hearing it. 

And I feel that my dream is confirming that he really is in a relationship with someone else.  That really makes me feel terrible.
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« Reply #4 on: October 21, 2013, 08:32:40 PM »

leftbehind,

I know you are in pain.  If this woman still works with your ex, she is going to have to be able to put this situation behind her and not let it jade her work relationships.  That isn't fair to her in her life to be smack dab in the middle of the craziness - she has a job to do and probably wants to have a positive atmosphere at work.

It is harder on this friend since she still has ties in some way to him.  Frankly I think you should apologize to her.  She did not just hang up on you.  She set boundaries regarding the stress of this situation in her life (probably) and regarding the comment you made that she found insulting.  You then pushed past her boundary to meet your need.

Not beating you up.  Just saying, if this is a good friend, you need to respect her boundaries.  This board and a T are great, because like your post title says, friends & family can only understand so much and can only handle so much.

They are not being a bad friend because they have to set a limit.  EVERYONE has limits depending on the situation.  And you are not a bad friend because you pushed past her boundaries.

I say forgive your friend, and apologize to her.  

I know for me it is hard to think others will still have a good relationship with my exh after all he did.  Like he gets to go on in life after his HORRIBLE abuse and then throwing me away without any regret and I was left broken in pieces and alone.  I STILL struggle with this feeling sometimes.  HOWEVER - the need to see that others are still "holding him hostage" & "punishing" him for his crimes means you are still bound up in anger and haven't released him.  (I am working on this too - UGH!)

Side note:  Just because others don't see him for who he is and are bamboozled, just because others FORGIVE his transgressions and go on - DOES NOT make it not real.  And it does not make what he did less wrong.  It does not mean you have less value because they are able to do this.  This is the core of what I struggle with I think when examining these particular scenarios for myself so I am just throwing that out there.
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« Reply #5 on: October 21, 2013, 08:40:40 PM »

I guess I am lucky. Most of my friends (and her few friends), family on both sides... .almost everyone who knows us, knows how she operates.  They are glad I am out.  One friend, who loves us both, said, "she has been kicking your ass for 15 years!"  One friend (kind of a know-it-all) gives me the get over her bit. This friend is an "expert" on relationships and families.  She gives me (a married man for 23 years, father of three, and countless dear friends) unending pedantic advice on relationships.  It is infuriating!

Yet she: has not been with a man for nearly 5 years, stalks his fb page, has never married or had kids (she is 47), claims to be "very particular" about men, and that is why she is single... . She lives in New York City where there are more men than anywhere!  If she can't find a man in NYC to meet her stringent taste, perhaps there is something wrong with her?  Yet, she is "disappointed" that I am not

showing greater improvement after a year of separation from my 25 year run with

my wife!  Other than her, my friends are in my corner.

Fiddle
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Bananas
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« Reply #6 on: October 21, 2013, 09:18:54 PM »

  leftbehind,

I hope you are feeling better.  I am so sorry your friend treated you this way, I know it hurts.  I have had the same experience with my friends and family. 

I really only have one person outside of this board and my T that I can talk to an that is one of my exes exes.  We were both "leftbehind" as well so we get it. 

With everyone else I have learned to say I am doing OK and not bring it up anything else.  It has been seven months for me now so my friends and family have had their fill.   

I have also had the same experience with dreams, sometimes they are dreams where we are together and happy and other times he is with my replacement.  Either way they make me feel rotten when I awake. 

What helps me a little is to remind myself of the reality of how things were with my ex, nothing was ever stable.  I do get lonely but at least I have peace. 



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leftbehind
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« Reply #7 on: October 21, 2013, 09:36:26 PM »

thanks so much, everyone. 

Lady31, the thing is my friend doesn't work with my ex.  She occaisonally stops in the place where he still works, but usually when he's not there.  She really has been incredibly loyal, and that's why she felt hurt by my comment I'm sure.  And I just feel hurt by all the other people who didn't even bother to ask how I was after knowing me for several years.

Anyway, just wanted to clarify that.  She has let me know she never even liked him.  I just reacted today to her really being done listening to me talk about my pain over this.

Bananas, you're right.  I really need to stop talking about this, as people give you a couple of months and then feel you should be over it.  If you're not, they look at you as if YOU must have been the f**ked up one.  I think that's what has happened with my friend.

Fiddlestix, I'm glad you are "considering the source" when your friend tells you to "just get over it." Thanks to all for understanding how I feel
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winston72
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« Reply #8 on: October 21, 2013, 10:12:10 PM »

It is really annoying and actually quite damaging for friends or loved ones to become impatient with us when we are discovering and processing emotions from such a trauma.  In my case, one of the most powerful impacts was a loss of trust in my own feelings and a general inner confusion from the emotional chaos.  The impatience of friends leads me to have less trust in my own emotional processing at just the time when I need an embrace of trust and faith from others.  It is a very substantive issue.

Coincidentally, just before reading this post I created a post and inserted an essay that recently appeared in the New York Times.  It is entitled Great Betrayals and it gives voice and credibility to people who have suffered from a betrayal.  it is not specific to BPD, but it very much validates the depth of suffering and damage that can result from betrayal.  Here is the post:

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=211782.0

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leftbehind
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« Reply #9 on: October 21, 2013, 10:30:34 PM »

What a great article!  Thank you, Winston72.
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« Reply #10 on: October 22, 2013, 02:14:44 AM »

LB -- my dreams about my ex and the replacement (whom, BTW, I also replaced, though I didn't realize it at the time, as he described the situation as having had to enforce boundaries with her -- no doubt exactly how he'd describe the situation with me now) were brutal.  Brutal.  So sorry.

And re your friend, it's really true, it is very hard for people who have not had this completely inexplicable overnight failure of a relationship of intimacy and trust to grasp how damaging it is.  I've been lucky, a bit like Bananas, because I actually know three of the women my ex dealt with very similarly to me -- I just didn't realize it when we were together.  So the social circle surrounding this phenomenon can name it for what it is, pathological, and that provides some validation.

But it is really retraumatizing to have your ex deny the meaning of what happened between you, and then to have friends do the same.  It's a gaslighting impact almost.  I would have been incredibly thrown if a friend had reacted like yours did.

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« Reply #11 on: October 22, 2013, 07:03:04 AM »

Yes. And your friends that did see through the mask of the BPD are impatient for their "happy" friend to return.

I only lost one friend in the process ... .He was a guy friend who totally leaned on me when he got divorced, but has his own issues and was not there for me ... .not that I expected him to ... .but, he is just a donkey's backside.

Anyway ... .what I am most upset about is that I have let my friendships atrophy because I have been in my cave licking my wounds.

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alliance
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« Reply #12 on: October 22, 2013, 07:39:52 AM »

People do expect us to have a time limited, straight forward grieving process. Like many things, if you haven't tango-ed with someone with BPD, you don't have a clue what it is like.

There is so much we have to process. We cant even begin to process until the fog lifts. But, we need to talk. We need to recite what we experienced, over and over. We need to make sense (and eventually peace) with stuff that doesn't make sense and stuff that has thrown our world and person into chaos.

It takes time. It is a process. We need people who can listen to the same stuff over and over without judging it or rushing it. We need people to validate the oddity. We need people to remind us of what normal is. We need people who can tolerate our pain.

A T is very helpful with this. Friends, tho well meaning, are not quite as helpful.
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connect
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« Reply #13 on: October 22, 2013, 07:53:37 AM »

My experience matches what Winston said:

Excerpt
It is really annoying and actually quite damaging for friends or loved ones to become impatient with us when we are discovering and processing emotions from such a trauma.  In my case, one of the most powerful impacts was a loss of trust in my own feelings and a general inner confusion from the emotional chaos.  The impatience of friends leads me to have less trust in my own emotional processing at just the time when I need an embrace of trust and faith from others.  It is a very substantive issue.

I have lost a close friend due to this. I am still with my BPD bf but struggling and have also been on a big self knowledge type journey. Felt very vulnerable for about 10 months now and questioned my decision making/choices/feelings etc. I appreciate my friend had their own issues and was no doubt rather fed up with me talking about my stuff but I was so surprised when I was on the recieving end of some hurtful things/arguments. I think that I have been quite stable in my life up until now and helped out my friends when they had rough periods - I knew my problems were bigger then most through this period but I asumed that I was in "credit" so to speak on receiving support so was shocked when I wasnt.

I do feel for you - it's hard. I have unconsciously stopped confiding in friends so much as a result of this. I have heard others say the same. I think BPD is something that people domt understand unless they have been there and perhaps my healthier friends couldnt see why I stayed. I appreciate that - I do. But I dont feel very healthy at the moment and could have done with that particular friend to stick around more as they are sorely missed. We are still friends but with a distance that I dont like.
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« Reply #14 on: October 22, 2013, 08:37:03 AM »

Well said, Alliance!  I am a strong man; I held both my parents as they died, lost a few young friends and many other beloved people... .  I have been through a lot.  But nothing compares to the betrayal and abuse I suffered from my wife of 23 years... the person who is supposed to be my life partner and best friend.  As Alliance said, if one has not tango-ed with a pwBPD, they have no idea.   

And then, the only way to heal is to treat the pwBPD as if he/she is dead (no contact), even though we know he/she is now honeymooning with someone else.  It is an exhausting, grinding grief with no closure.  But I know you all, the readers of my words, understand this.  And that comforts me :-)  Thank God for this online community!

Fiddle
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« Reply #15 on: October 22, 2013, 08:52:53 AM »

Well said, Alliance!  I am a strong man; I held both my parents as they died, lost a few young friends and many other beloved people... .  I have been through a lot.  But nothing compares to the betrayal and abuse I suffered from my wife of 23 years... the person who is supposed to be my life partner and best friend.  As Alliance said, if one has not tango-ed with a pwBPD, they have no idea.   

And then, the only way to heal is to treat the pwBPD as if he/she is dead (no contact), even though we know he/she is now honeymooning with someone else.  It is an exhausting, grinding grief with no closure.  But I know you all, the readers of my words, understand this.  And that comforts me :-)  Thank God for this online community!

Fiddle

I'm very happy you wrote this. Today was a crap day for me, and you mentioning this, shows me, there are still people who understand me. 
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HarmKrakow
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« Reply #16 on: October 22, 2013, 08:57:17 AM »

I often question my sanity when a friend tells me, still? Ur BPD ex? I come here and feel sane again.
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« Reply #17 on: October 22, 2013, 09:01:50 AM »

I often question my sanity when a friend tells me, still? Ur BPD ex? I come here and feel sane again.

One of my close friends... .

Literally said that... .

To me too... .

"Still... .?"

They will never understand.

Like Harm said... .

"I come here and feel sane again... ."

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leftbehind
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« Reply #18 on: October 22, 2013, 03:23:58 PM »

Thank God we keep each other sane!  Thanks for all your support.  I haven't heard from my friend yet.  I'm really resistant to the idea of calling back someone who hung up on me.  My intuition tells me to do nothing and wait another day, so I'm listening to that.  If she calls me, I've decided to tell her that I'm sorry I hurt her feelings by questioning her loyalty and leave it at that.  But I now realize that she is not someone who I can talk about this to anymore.  Someone reminded me that people get stressed out when they hear a problem that they can't fix.  That made sense to me.  As my friend she's heard a lot of my story about my ex, and was witness to some of it.  And she can't fix it.  Can't fix me and put me back together again.  Only I can do that.  So it seems as if she's in a hurry to get her old friend back.  What people don't understand is that I'm not the same person as I was before.  For good or for bad, this experience has changed me. 

Anyway, I think I need to accept that this isn't a safe person to talk over my feelings about my ex with.  And if it stresses her out still hearing about this after 7 months, then I need to just accept that she doesn't understand.  We can talk about other things.  Sad that sometimes support just dries up, but this is how life is sometimes.  People do have limits.

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« Reply #19 on: October 22, 2013, 03:30:54 PM »

Thank you both for your comments

I feel badly about my friend, but I guess I need to let it go for the moment.  It's weird, because this dream came after I had a few really good days.  I finally thought I was putting all this behind me.  I believe sometimes dreams are a way for your subconscious to process emotions and experiences.  Even though I had been feeling good in the daytime, I think my brain is still processing the fact of him moving on so quickly, when I haven't been dating or being romantic with anyone in the last seven months.  (Except a couple of dates with someone who I wasn't remotely interested in, which at the time made me feel worse). 

So I felt like I was really moving on, and then Wham!  This dream, and then the fight with a friend who has been one of my biggest supporters. Until she reached her limit and got sick of hearing it. 

And I feel that my dream is confirming that he really is in a relationship with someone else.  That really makes me feel terrible.

I seem to go through phases with dreams - even 8 months since we split. I find they occur more when I'm ruminating. At least once a month, I'll have a deeply traumatic dream  about him that wakes me up. Sometimes, as many as 3 or 4 in a week. Then they cause me to ruminate - vicious circle - although I'm learning to change that.

They are so hard to deal with, but like you say, I think rationally they are just our subconscious processing the trauma, and actually they are probably a step forward in our healing.

Horrid when they happen though!

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« Reply #20 on: October 22, 2013, 04:19:30 PM »

I tried getting answers from a close friend as to why my uBPDexgf would post pictures of herself and my replacement on social media for the world to see a week after we broke up as a means to hurt me. My friend told me "She's not trying to hurt you, she's happy, she's free from you and that's what she's trying to portray." My heart sunk. How could this person who told me countless times how much she loved me and how I was perfect for her feel free all after such a short time. In the relationship, I didn't conduct myself as someone who was a jailer or overbearing, but my uBPDexgf made me feel that way when she told me I didn't want to let her go because I was afraid I wouldn't get her back. My friend validated her and it made me feel worse.
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« Reply #21 on: October 22, 2013, 06:21:31 PM »

Downandout,  I don't think your friend understands the mental illness that is BPD.  From my experience with persons with BPD, they can be VERY spiteful.  Like a kid is spiteful when he or she doesn't get their way.  They paint you black, and since you're the villian in their mind they think you deserve to be hurt. 

I'm sorry that your friend only made you feel worse.  It sounds like your ex is a mess.  Anyone who moves on that quickly is either crazy or fronting, in my opinion.  Keep coming back here, it has really helped me be strong. 

 and   to you!
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« Reply #22 on: October 22, 2013, 06:55:55 PM »

How could a normal person think that this kind of insanity could be true. No one except the person who has been through it. To understand would be like going through 'the Matrix' scene of waking up or that moment in fight club when it is different from perceived. Where is my mind? Explain it to normal people and they will try to understand it through normal behaviour. Can't work, how could they conceive of such gargantuan lies,distortion, crazy. No one can!
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« Reply #23 on: October 22, 2013, 07:13:10 PM »

@Byron is right.

It has taken all of us so much emotional and mental effort to understand how a disordered mind works, something that is almost contrary to what we have experienced as basic realities of humans act.

Just last week I got from a friend I've known for 15 years, even after I explained the details,  a "That's the past. She's the past. You need to move on and get over it."

While he is absolutely right, his words still speak to an assumption that this was a normal relationship.

If you haven't been pushed/pulled, emotionally blackmailed, abused, put down, told that your interests, your friends and your understanding of love is all wrong by the person who is supposed to love you, the only insight you can ever give is "get over it". Our friends are doing the best they can based on their experiences in healthy, trusting and mature loving relationships. If they haven't experienced what we have, that's all they can say.

I have another friend who actually was so pragmatic about the issue, that it started to feel like she was supporting my ex and understanding of the difficult decisions involved in lying and cheating and lying again. I've since stopped talking to this person for the time being because I know I need allies now. I need people to validate my pain and to support me and tell me "no, you're not crazy. No, she did treat you like $**t and yes, you are worthy of love."
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« Reply #24 on: October 22, 2013, 09:40:26 PM »

@Byron is right.

It has taken all of us so much emotional and mental effort to understand how a disordered mind works, something that is almost contrary to what we have experienced as basic realities of humans act.

Just last week I got from a friend I've known for 15 years, even after I explained the details,  a "That's the past. She's the past. You need to move on and get over it."

While he is absolutely right, his words still speak to an assumption that this was a normal relationship.

If you haven't been pushed/pulled, emotionally blackmailed, abused, put down, told that your interests, your friends and your understanding of love is all wrong by the person who is supposed to love you, the only insight you can ever give is "get over it". Our friends are doing the best they can based on their experiences in healthy, trusting and mature loving relationships. If they haven't experienced what we have, that's all they can say.

I have another friend who actually was so pragmatic about the issue, that it started to feel like she was supporting my ex and understanding of the difficult decisions involved in lying and cheating and lying again. I've since stopped talking to this person for the time being because I know I need allies now. I need people to validate my pain and to support me and tell me "no, you're not crazy. No, she did treat you like $**t and yes, you are worthy of love."

In bold.

I can so understand that.

It was the same for me.

You have those allies... .

Here.

With us.

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crazytrain2

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What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Posts: 26


« Reply #25 on: October 22, 2013, 11:21:06 PM »

Leftbehind, I certainly feel your pain  :'(  A few of my friends have been there since the very very beginning, and over the years, I understand I've run the somewhat dry... .you know why?  Because they would get snigglets of information that on the surface would make anyone haul ass so they didn't understand why I even stayed in it.

They could... .with enough persuasion from me, at times, see that my ex could be great, and at times we'd have the enviable relationship, but ultimately they could see through it and were exasperated that I didn't seem to 'get' that I deserved much better than that 'loser'.  After a while they gave up on me even... .well, after hours and hours and hours of talking at the last break and she's still going to give it another try? We give up! arrrghghgh!

After a couple rounds, they would get tired of talking sense to me.  And yes, to them the writing is as plain as day on the wall in flashing neon lights and they get tired of trying to help us see it.

It is difficult to understand, and before I had this BPD experience I'd be right there with them, but the loaded bond is something that cant be seen... .the stealth abuse, hard to explain.  The intuitions and double standards and expectations... .and the wonderful times incredible connection if you could.just.keep.them.from.getting.upset.  That is something that can't really be explained to someone that has been lucky enough to not have one of these experiences.

Right now, I still talk 'sometimes' but I make an effort to not talk as much as I'd like.  I talk to my T every so often and I journal alot, take walks, and let a couple times pass where'd I'd like to mention the Ex for every one time I actually allow it to slip.  Otherwise, I don't clue in that I even think about it.  The 2 to 1 or 3 to 1 thinking vs. talking ration helps both me and them really in a way.

Your friend is your friend, and seems like a true friend so you will get through this as siblings do.  Just send a text with a smiley face.
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