Anger

[Before you can make things better, you have to stop making them worse...]

Someone was talking about borderlines feeling angry in another thread. I thought about my own feelings of anger. I started to write them down. I posted my response but then I thought "oh maybe I'm going off track on this thread? Maybe I need to just write my own post out somewhere else". So that's what I'm doing.

I notice that I feel anger over several things. There's things that can "push my buttons"/trigger feelings of anger within me. I was so ashamed of my anger that I didn't want to document these different triggers. I thought "Ok I'll just do the 12 steps and that'll get rid of the anger". The 12 steps is very helpful for this issue however I feel like certain things trigger me and that I need to address those issues. I would appreciate any advice/feedback on this issue. I'm afraid to talk about this to people in my actual life in case I'm judged harshly whereas here, I don't really care if I'm judged harshly because it's just an internet forum so that takes the risk out of it really. I know that eventually, I'll have to talk to someone face to face about this issue but for now, this is a baby step-better than nothing.

I find that things like being criticized, being told what to do, not getting my own way, bad weather, waiting in queues, rude people, selfish people, people not caring about things that I care about. People not listening to me. When someone doesn't take my advice. I can't really think of anything else.

I have been doing DBT skills and that's helpful. I also have been doing CBT, reading psychology books, positive thinking, self-help books, trying to relax... basically everything I can think of. I can stay really calm now-deal with the emotion instead of acting it out. But where I'm at now is that it's still inside me... I would describe myself as "acting in" really. My levels of anger have gone down significantly however I feel that I still need to do more work on this. Maybe I'm being too hard on myself but at the same time, I don't want to stagnate either. I find that I don't really like being given advice/feedback-that can be a trigger in itself so I'm actually trying to take advice on board now... acting opposite to how I feel. I don't want sympathy "poor you" etc because this is my own fault! I need blunt honest advice here. Where am I going wrong? And how can I fix this? It also feels good just to get this off my chest too! I've gotten good advice from some of the members here already and I really appreciate that. I hope this post doesn't trigger anyone-that's why I decided to just create my own thread... that way, it won't offend anyone... everyone can just either look at it and reply if they want or else ignore. I feel so ashamed of this issue-I find it so hard to talk about yet I realize that I have to deal with it... that it's not just going to go away by itself... that I have  to take action.

There's certain areas in my life that I'm unhappy about so I'm starting to create goals to ameliorate this. I think this is the most constructive thing I can do right now. But as I say, I need some guidance on this.

[musicfan42]

Someone was talking about borderlines feeling angry in another thread. I thought about my own feelings of anger. I started to write them down. I posted my response but then I thought "oh maybe I'm going off track on this thread? Maybe I need to just write my own post out somewhere else". So that's what I'm doing.

I notice that I feel anger over several things. There's things that can "push my buttons"/trigger feelings of anger within me. I was so ashamed of my anger that I didn't want to document these different triggers. I thought "Ok I'll just do the 12 steps and that'll get rid of the anger". The 12 steps is very helpful for this issue however I feel like certain things trigger me and that I need to address those issues. I would appreciate any advice/feedback on this issue. I'm afraid to talk about this to people in my actual life in case I'm judged harshly whereas here, I don't really care if I'm judged harshly because it's just an internet forum so that takes the risk out of it really. I know that eventually, I'll have to talk to someone face to face about this issue but for now, this is a baby step-better than nothing.

I find that things like being criticized, being told what to do, not getting my own way, bad weather, waiting in queues, rude people, selfish people, people not caring about things that I care about. People not listening to me. When someone doesn't take my advice. I can't really think of anything else.

I have been doing DBT skills and that's helpful. I also have been doing CBT, reading psychology books, positive thinking, self-help books, trying to relax... basically everything I can think of. I can stay really calm now-deal with the emotion instead of acting it out. But where I'm at now is that it's still inside me... I would describe myself as "acting in" really. My levels of anger have gone down significantly however I feel that I still need to do more work on this. Maybe I'm being too hard on myself but at the same time, I don't want to stagnate either. I find that I don't really like being given advice/feedback-that can be a trigger in itself so I'm actually trying to take advice on board now... acting opposite to how I feel. I don't want sympathy "poor you" etc because this is my own fault! I need blunt honest advice here. Where am I going wrong? And how can I fix this? It also feels good just to get this off my chest too! I've gotten good advice from some of the members here already and I really appreciate that. I hope this post doesn't trigger anyone-that's why I decided to just create my own thread... that way, it won't offend anyone... everyone can just either look at it and reply if they want or else ignore. I feel so ashamed of this issue-I find it so hard to talk about yet I realize that I have to deal with it... that it's not just going to go away by itself... that I have  to take action.

There's certain areas in my life that I'm unhappy about so I'm starting to create goals to ameliorate this. I think this is the most constructive thing I can do right now. But as I say, I need some guidance on this.

[happylogist]

I can stay really calm now-deal with the emotion instead of acting it out. But where I'm at now is that it's still inside me... I would describe myself as "acting in" really.

Hi, Musicfan,

Just trying to understand.  Can you define how do you "act in"? What is the difference between "anger with acting in" and feeling "disappointed or anxious"?  Do you often give silent treatments by saying you act in?

[Suzn]

Unresolved or repressed emotions have no time limit Musicfan. They will wait, sometimes just under the surface for us to express. This is how triggers work. Getting to the root of your anger, which is a secondary emotion, will be key. Searching for the hurt, understanding it and grieving it fully helps. This does take time, it is no over night fix. It's really good that you are sharing this since you say there is shame around your anger. Eveyone has this emotion and for me, it was a way to keep me safe, to keep people at a distance though I didn't realize it prior to recovery. I have said many times in my past I just want to stay angry at someone, anger was easier than pain and sadness.

And yes, you're being hard on yourself too. Recovery takes time and diligence. Good for you for identifying and working through this very important part of your recovery.

[musicfan42]

Suzn- thanks for your kind response Yes, I'm finding that these unresolved/repressed emotions are just waiting under the surface and now they're popping out! I feel that it's safe to deal with them now-maybe it wasn't safe before?

I've been doing DBT skills so I've found learning the difference between primary and secondary emotions to be extremely helpful. There's also another skill in DBT that I like about justified vs unjustified emotions-that sometimes, feelings of anger are justified i.e. when someone has done something to harm you etc. That knowledge is reassuring because I tend to judge myself harshly whenever I feel angry now.

I don't lose my temper now. I handle things calmly now. Sometimes I'm still a bit moody however when I notice it, I pull up for it. I don't just keep doing the same thing. I have PMS (Pre-Menstrual Syndrome) and that's an issue I need to tackle because I find that it causes mood swings. The rest of the time, I feel fine-no mood swings at all.

I still think that I keep people at a distance to a certain extent. I notice that my dreams often have themes around feeling disconnected from other people... feeling left out. Because, deep down, I feel left out... I think that people don't want me around-that I'm just a burden on them. I know logically that I'm very charming and likable yet I still have these insecurities... still have these recurring dreams. I have a recurring dream that I'm with friends or else strangers and they're all speaking a foreign language. I can understand bits of it but not all of it. And it frustrates me because I want to understand all of it yet I don't.

I also have this recurring dream that I'm either kissing or having sex with this guy but I can never see his face. I can see that he's very good looking-tanned, lean body... goes to the gym a lot. But I've no idea who this guy is. I think that this dream means that I don't really trust men... that I could be dating anyone really... that they're all interchangeable really because all men will eventually hurt me... that as long as I have people in my life, then it doesn't matter who they are. I know that some of this is just a defense mechanism against hurt yet some of this is actually my genuine belief.

I often have dreams where I'm with people but I don't feel that I belong... I may chat to the people in the dream but I don't trust them. I don't feel at ease with them-I constantly have this feeling of uneasiness... of there being all this tension under the surface that no one is expressing. And yes, this is exactly how I feel in my day-to-day life-that no one ever really talks about the elephant in the room so to speak... that everything is so polite/civilized but that the big issues are never solved... that there's never really any true connection/intimacy. I abhor this type of politeness-it feels fake. I'd rather just having a screaming match with someone and just get the tension out of the way. I'd rather have a big argument whereas I know now that this is not deemed socially acceptable. So that's irritating. I used to just lose my temper-tell people exactly what I thought of them. And it got all this stuff off my chest. Whereas now, I'm constantly thinking of social etiquette... of saying the right thing all the time. I feel like a sell out now whereas before I didn't care. I'd just lose my temper and had this amazing sense of defiance whereas now I want to conform. I want to seem respectable. I never shout now, I rarely swear. I'm watching my behavior so carefully. But I feel trapped-caged in. I had a perverse type of freedom before-that I could just do whatever I wanted whereas now I have to be responsible. It's almost as if this responsibility is a noose around my neck-suffocating me and at times, I wish that I could go back to just losing my temper. At times, I wish that I never had worked on my anger in the first place.

[wayforward2day]

Hello music fan , i have just read your posts and i my heart really goes out to you. I know you probably don't want any sympathy whatsoever, but tough, cos you got it from me. I just want to explain why i sympathise with you, and may have a word that will help, cos it only takes one word (if its the right word) to lead you onto the next step, onto a higher ground... .I'm a mum, and the father of my 3 children hooked up with the good looking secretary at work and went off to start a new life with her  i was determined not to shack up with 1 guy, then another, then another... .cos i have seen so many kids get really screwed up with that, so i always kept my distance from fellas... .until one day when my own dad introduced me to a fella who i thought was the one. He turned out to be narcisistic and psycotic, which i only discovered  after we got married ! The reason why i am telling you all this, is because, you remind me of myself, the thoughts i have now, since all this happened and the trauma i went thru. I dont know what happened to you but i'll bet its been hell.  I have the desire to be unnoticed... .and i thank God no one knows my thoughts ! After this guy nearly destroyed me and my kids ( who are also suffering the aftermath and feel so angry), i have started this journey of recovery, and part of that is really trying to feel stable in my thoughts. You mentioned feeling anger about lots of injustices and wrongs that you noticed in others and then somewhere along the line you made a decision to stop shouting when you felt like it and keep it in to conform.  How you feel inside hasnt really changed, and you remember the freedom you felt , looking back, when you could express yourself.  I really understand this and i dont know the details of what has happened in your life, but it sounds very important to me and extremely significant that you find a way to work thru these things with someone that can help.  I live in the UK and i think the US. seems better equipped to help. but to be able to work thru this stuff and then you will experience the freedom of not having the anger all trapped inside, because the anger will go.

Coming on this site is a very good thing, it really helped me to understand what was happening to me and why. Just the knowledge of that meant everything to me, this site is amazing for answering questions and like you said you have privacy, and it really works. Understanding where your anger comes from is the beginning of a new life, and in the end your thoughts wont be so bad.

Take care, just take one step at a time, Wayforward2day   

[Suzn]

Having a sense of belonging is important for us. It's part of what gives a place in this world. Cultivating this is healthy. Pick one of two friends, at the most, at the beginning and work to develop healthy friendships. There will be times of disappointment, that is just life, however there will be times of joy. Working to set boundaries is a skill that isn't taught in school. Learning to set boundaries for ourselves and to respect others boundaries is all part of healthy relationships.

As far as wanting to be the person you were before? Well Musicfan, you took the blue pill, there is no going back. Once we know, we can't unknow. We can choose. It may be a good exercise to look through your last response here and see that little girl inside you, to identify the her words/emotions and the adult in you taking charge. She is testing your limits! 

The inner child is in charge when we just go with our emotions all the time. There needs to be a balance between emotion and self discipline/logic.

[musicfan42]

You mentioned feeling anger about lots of injustices and wrongs that you noticed in others and then somewhere along the line you made a decision to stop shouting when you felt like it and keep it in to conform.  How you feel inside hasnt really changed, and you remember the freedom you felt , looking back, when you could express yourself.

Yes-this is exactly how I feel!

You're right, I'm a proud person so I don't like people feeling sorry for me haha! But I really appreciated your kind response!

You sound like a great mother to your children-being careful about who you dated... .very responsible attitude to have! It's unfortunate that your husband turned out to be narcissistic... but how were you supposed to know that? You're not a mind reader so cut yourself some slack! I had no idea about personality disorders until my BPD ex... I never even knew there was such a thing. Obviously, I now know that there's all kinds of personality disorders but honestly, I'm not a psychiatrist-this is not the type of knowledge most people know off-hand! !

I like that idea you mention-that it only takes one word (if it's the right word) to lead you onto the next step/higher ground... I've never heard it expressed like that before however it strikes a chord with me.

There's nothing wrong with your thoughts-you've been through a lot so it's only normal that you'd feel angry and have many different thoughts going through your head!

happylogist-I think I used the terms "acting in" and "acting out" incorrectly in my first post! It's more that I have an impulsive side battling against my sensible side. If I feel anxious, then I feel fearful whereas if I feel disappointed, I feel sad. I can separate anger from those emotions. Anger with acting in really means that I deal with things calmly/assertively but my inner child side just wants to tell them off... to say "oh my god how dare you?"... I think that's what I mean by "acting in"... that I feel anger in those times but I don't act it out. I don't give people the silent treatment-I find that taking a time out is helpful... just going off and doing my own thing... distracting myself until I feel calmer. 

suzn- You hit the nail on the head here. I notice that you say "healthy friendships"-that's important. I've been working on boundaries however I think that I need guidance with this. What type of things should I be doing to have boundaries? I already know that I want friend who are a good influence (I think that's a boundary in itself), healthy conscious, responsible, hard working. So I have filters in place already however I think that extra feedback can only help me really

My inner child side is definitely testing my limits! You suggested that i'd be a good exercise to look through my last response and see my inner child side. It's funny... I started that post off very sensibly but then my inner child side acted up towards the end basically... almost as if to say "oh this is not fair... why do I have to do this?" . When I'm in a logical mindset, my sentences are slightly shorter... more factual.  Whereas when I'm emotional, I start rambling... writing a lot... I even do this in life too-when I feel more emotional, I talk a lot more too which is interesting.

I agree with you that I took the blue pill-that I can't go back. I felt that I craved attention too much so I worked on being more subdued. At first, I felt like I was having to force it whereas now it seems more natural. It's almost like I have a battle internally between my old self and my new self... basically my emotional side and logical side. I'm much more logical now than before-my emotions used to be in control a lot more. I'm still an emotional person however I agree that having a balance between emotions and logic is needed.

[Suzn]

You are growing your emotional maturity and your self respect Music. You are "working" on you. Notice the word working, not playing, it's work and sometimes it's hard work. Just like with any new job it will become easier, more comfortable over time. 

Healthy friendships, like healthy romantic relationships, hinge on reciprocity surrounding boundaries, on both sides. Identifying your values helps with boundary setting and also listening to your gut. When someone says something that rubs you the wrong way there's generally a boundary being crossed [for you]. We have to pay close attention to our reactions and that could simply mean something is starting to upset you and you catch it growing. Stop right there and ask yourself "ok, what's really going on here? Did my feelings just get hurt? Do I feel slighted? Am I jealous?" Finding the root of your emotions right then helps you identify what your inner child is fighting for. This takes practice. Be kind to you instead of beating yourself up for having these emotions. Insert healthy coping techniques. Lashing out and screaming at someone is not healthy, it only inflames your upset and makes it worse [for you]. (I have taken more walks around the building at work than I care to count when someone upset me, shed a few tears, pulled myself together and walked back in.)

Building a relationship with our inner child can be challenging. When our emotions get triggered we can turn to that child and reassure them... "I will be taking care of you now. I will do the talking for you, for us, and I will be protecting you." How do you protect her? With boundaries. What can you live with? Without? Where is the line in the sand where you have to walk away? People will disappoint you, everyone makes mistakes, are you being fair and are you being honest with yourself? Where is bending a little ok? These are all questions that can help get you started in figuring out what your values and boundaries are. This is building a relationship with yourself first, then you can extend that to others. Boundaries are rules for you, not your friends.

There are different types of relationships. Acquaintances, friends, close friends... becoming comfortable with where to place someone in your life takes getting to know them if you aren't close right? That takes time.

(earlier I meant to write pick one OR two friends to start with to build close relationships with  )

[musicfan42]

Thanks suzn I've thought about your last post a lot-copied and pasted it into a word document!

[musicfan42]

You are growing your emotional maturity and your self respect Music. You are "working" on you. Notice the word working, not playing, it's work and sometimes it's hard work. Just like with any new job it will become easier, more comfortable over time. 

Yes... I agree with you here. I spent ages thinking about this bit though! I thought "is she saying that I'm immature?" ! But the thing is, yes I can be pretty immature at times... I still have that inner child/bratty side and I have to keep an eye on it. I guess I just wanted someone to say "Oh you're just overreacting-there's no issue... you're really mature already!" Probably because I'm fed up. I was thinking of just throwing the towel in... of just quitting full stop. I was very much of the attitude of "this is TOO much work!" So your post is a timely reminder to persevere!

I already threw the towel in when I dated my BPD ex in the first place. I had been in therapy beforehand so I could see all the red flags in the relationship. I just thought "oh I don't care-I'm sick and tired of being sensible"... just threw an internal strop basically . But then my sensible side kept nagging me and it took over so the relationship didn't last very long.

I've made some progress and it's easy to think "Oh that's it... I'm done now... I don't have to do anymore". But I was thinking "yes I've made some progress". I can control my emotions now. I've spent time working on listening to my instincts, to not verbally lash out... learning assertiveness techniques.

I feel like I need to work on my boundaries more now-that's the stage I'm at now. I was reading through the thread on the workshop section here where it says "value, boundary, action" and I'm going to start putting that into practice. It's not that my boundaries are terrible but at the same time, I think that I could work on them more.

I don't actually find inner child work that helpful personally. It's hard for my inner child not to take over... not to be a brat. I notice that when I'm tapped into my inner child side, I start acting more willful! So it's like the only thing that really works for my inner child is being strict with it-basically telling it "look you're not the boss... you have to follow the rules". My inner child side doesn't like that but at the same time, all any inner child/childlike side (child even) really wants deep down is stability... consistency... routine. Does that make sense?

I'd like to make more meaningful friendships but at the same time, it's not my top priority right now. I feel like "Ok it's on my to-do list but there's more pressing issues right now".

[Suzn]

I can control my emotions now. I've spent time working on listening to my instincts, to not verbally lash out... learning assertiveness techniques.

This is growing your emotional maturity.  And we are all right there with you on the self work, it's not an overnight venture. Our life patterns have been established from way back in childhood so it's gona take a minute to make long lasting changes. It's a process, not a race.

So it's like the only thing that really works for my inner child is being strict with it-basically telling it "look you're not the boss... you have to follow the rules". My inner child side doesn't like that but at the same time, all any inner child/childlike side (child even) really wants deep down is stability... consistency... routine. Does that make sense?

Yes, it makes perfect sense. For me, I was pretty heavy handed with myself (my inner child) in the beginning. I found later that she needed understanding and love. Basically, not being so hard on myself if I made a mistake. It's a building of a relationship, this is also a process.

I think it's good you know what you need to work on, the boundaries and such. Kuddos. 

[musicfan42]

Aw thanks suzn Yeah I agree with you that it takes time.

I've been told that I'm too hard on myself before! I find cognitive distortions helpful-to say "are my thoughts realistic?" For some reason, I can't seem to give myself kindness yet. Well okay, I can but then I can't seem to keep it up. It's like I think I have to be super-duper logical about everything... that my emotions are the problem... that they're causing me to get into trouble in the first place... that if I didn't have any emotions, then I'd be fine.

I feel like I've been shamed in the past for being outspoken-that I was only telling the truth but that I wasn't supposed to tell the truth. That was the message I got... that I was meant to just go along with the lies. I didn't want to be a part of that but because of that, I was castigated and it's hard to get over something like that. It hurt me badly. I was considered problematic and literally since, I've stopped being so outspoken in my personal life, I haven't gotten any hassle. It frustrates me that things are like that in life-that you're punished any time you open your mouth seemingly.

I'm a really passionate person and it was like people could take me in small doses but then they'd get impatient with me after a while. I know that I was a willful child but at the same time, it was hurtful to be invalidated like that! If I was talking too much about an issue, then people would just change the subject! I'd feel like "well thanks for nothing". I can see things from their point of view now though-that I probably did rant about things too much and that type of anger alienates people. They don't want to hear it... it's easier to tune it out. I think that's why I'm careful not to lose my temper now-because I don't want to be tuned out like that again. I want to feel heard in my relationships-that what I say matters... that I matter... that I am making a good point... that I'm respected.

I find that passive-aggressive/bhity people are a big trigger for me... that they trigger a lot of anger within me. They're so underhanded and tend to use techniques like sarcasm, stonewalling, the silent treatment... .just anything sly and bhity really! I feel like I need more advice/guidance on how to deal with people like that so if you have any tips suzn, then please let me know thanks!