Is this normal/Is this where I belong?

[MyKryptonite]

I don't know what to put under the Heading "Standard" or "Significant other w/BPD" She was a significant other but I left moved all my things out and with the exception of a brief note I mailed returning a couple things of hers have had no contact.

I also don't know if this is the right place for me to be because I am second guessing, I guess I'm owning her stuff but it had been thrust on me so long that I'm used to it. I said in my intro on the intro page I was trying to move on but sometimes I wonder. . . Can I say that I am really ready to move on if I have "stipulations" that she would need to meet for us to try to get back together? Can I really say I'm ready to move on if I say I would love to try and rekindle our friendship, which is how we started? Even though I know she has said she could never be friends with me again because she could not handle seeing my life continue and improve with her not in it.

My stipulations are steep and she has no idea they even exist. Part of me wants to reach out and tell her what they are because she has surprised me in the past. Part of me is scared that if I do I will be thrusting myself right back into the hostility I was in before, which I can't do to myself.

So my stipulations, and if this is better suited for another section I will happily move it or address it there.

1) re-enter couples counseling

2) NO CONTACT outside therapist's office for 6 weeks or 6 sessions whichever is longer.

3) She continues/restarts her own counseling and goes at least once a week.

4) We limit face to face contact to once or twice a week Max for 6 weeks following beginning contact outside of therapist's office, but can speak on the phone nightly if time permits.

5) We do not stay at each others house for at least the first 6 weeks after we begin having contact outside therapist's office, and then again not more then two nights a week alternating residences.

6) we do not consider moving back in together for at least 6 months from the time we being staying at each others residence.

7) Marriage plans/talk are on hold until at least a year after we move in together.

8) Any other stipulations that may arise through our counseling that I may need to feel safe.

I do not believe ANY of these would be acceptable to her, especially since if I were to make contact in her mind I would be admitting I was wrong, but does the fact that I have stipulations mean that I am not ready to cut ties and be out or am I in the "bargaining" stage. Is there anything to be gained by sending her this list?

This Sucks. . .

I am so used to having more clarity in my life and now especially in this area I have NONE

again This Sucks. . .

I miss my "Lois", not my kryptonite, unfortunately they are one in the same.

Definitely Sucks. . .

[Ironmanrises]

I don't know what to put under the Heading "Standard" or "Significant other w/BPD" She was a significant other but I left moved all my things out and with the exception of a brief note I mailed returning a couple things of hers have had no contact.

I also don't know if this is the right place for me to be because I am second guessing, I guess I'm owning her stuff but it had been thrust on me so long that I'm used to it. I said in my intro on the intro page I was trying to move on but sometimes I wonder. . . Can I say that I am really ready to move on if I have "stipulations" that she would need to meet for us to try to get back together? Can I really say I'm ready to move on if I say I would love to try and rekindle our friendship, which is how we started? Even though I know she has said she could never be friends with me again because she could not handle seeing my life continue and improve with her not in it.

My stipulations are steep and she has no idea they even exist. Part of me wants to reach out and tell her what they are because she has surprised me in the past. Part of me is scared that if I do I will be thrusting myself right back into the hostility I was in before, which I can't do to myself.

So my stipulations, and if this is better suited for another section I will happily move it or address it there.

1) re-enter couples counseling

2) NO CONTACT outside therapist's office for 6 weeks or 6 sessions whichever is longer.

3) She continues/restarts her own counseling and goes at least once a week.

4) We limit face to face contact to once or twice a week Max for 6 weeks following beginning contact outside of therapist's office, but can speak on the phone nightly if time permits.

5) We do not stay at each others house for at least the first 6 weeks after we begin having contact outside therapist's office, and then again not more then two nights a week alternating residences.

6) we do not consider moving back in together for at least 6 months from the time we being staying at each others residence.

7) Marriage plans/talk are on hold until at least a year after we move in together.

8) Any other stipulations that may arise through our counseling that I may need to feel safe.

I do not believe ANY of these would be acceptable to her, especially since if I were to make contact in her mind I would be admitting I was wrong, but does the fact that I have stipulations mean that I am not ready to cut ties and be out or am I in the "bargaining" stage. Is there anything to be gained by sending her this list?

This Sucks. . .

I am so used to having more clarity in my life and now especially in this area I have NONE

again This Sucks. . .

I miss my "Lois", not my kryptonite, unfortunately they are one in the same.

Definitely Sucks. . .

In bold.

The paradox of hell... .

That we all inhabit.

I know exactly how you feel.

I too miss my Morena... .

Not the other side... .

Of her.

But she is both... .

Intertwined... .

As one.

The cruelest... .

Of paradoxes... .

The cruelest fate... .

Of falling in love... .

With such a person.

I understand your sadness fellow superhero.

It is a nightmare... .

It sucks... .

Beyond words.

Hang in there.

[Turkish]

Even after mine had her affair and I was trying to work it out, I had a list of short stipulations. After I caught her pathologically lying to me (after 6 years, and aspect of her personality I had never seen), I ended it. But it was already over. I just needed to accept that.

For a few weeks after (this was a month ago), my list of stipulations, while not as long as yours, were similar. Someone here, however, pointed out the fact that what would our relationship be like if she met my demands? It would be even more of the Father/daughter (in my case... .I kind of knew it for a long time), Caretaker/Child dynamic. Would that be fulfilling? Would that be what I really wanted? Would that help either me, or her grow?

No.

It hurts me to not talk to her about things between us, especially since mine is still living in my house with our little kids... .but the best love I can show is letting her go. It hurts me that she thinks I am doing this because I don't care. But it is the opposite.

I need to get on with my life, and she hers. Unfortunately, I (and she to some extent) know how hers will play out. As someone just said in another thread... ."same play, different actors."

It will not get better in the long run. What you need to fight is yourself, because the fight with her is already lost. Because it's not her, it's the black hole of emptiness inside her. Have compassion, but draw boundaries around yourself. Protect yourself first.

[crazedncrazymom]

Hi Kryptonite,

Welcome to leaving!  I had thought after speaking with you on the newbie board that you were sure you wanted to leave.  Feel free to post in the undecided board instead/also.  Maybe you can gain some clarity as to what it is you want. We can help you move forward with or without her, but only you can decide which it will be.

-crazed

[MyKryptonite]

So much I want to say:

Thanks Ironman for the validation. and your signature line "Congratulations... .You lost me." is pretty close to what I said when I reached my breaking point I think I actually said "congratulations you get what you apparently want. . . to be alone. . . .because you have finally pushed me away, I'm done."

Turkish, and Crazed, My mind knows for my own sanity and mental well being I need to be out and done, I can't save her from herself. My higher self knows the same thing. My heart (and yes my insecurities) want to reach out to her in hopes something will change (to some extent achieve validation that the pain and hard work was/is worth it by her recognizing the situation and getting the help she needs but I know she needs to believe and want the help for herself). I just have to remind myself what I told a friend this weekend whose SO slapped her (something that happened with no warning and never happened before) If it happens once it happens once. if it happens twice then it is a pattern. She and I definitely had an unhealthy pattern, and the more I tried to establish healthy boundaries the more she fought. She did a Vin Diagram of our relationship showing me her and us. all of her things (friends money possessions) were appropriately and correctly placed, all of mine were in the "Us" category. Nothing was mine not even my time. I was not allowed to have time to myself. Desperately want to detach, and move on but scared of repeating the patterns and ending up back in a similar relationship.

[Learning_curve74]

She and I definitely had an unhealthy pattern, and the more I tried to establish healthy boundaries the more she fought. She did a Vin Diagram of our relationship showing me her and us. all of her things (friends money possessions) were appropriately and correctly placed, all of mine were in the "Us" category. Nothing was mine not even my time. I was not allowed to have time to myself. Desperately want to detach, and move on but scared of repeating the patterns and ending up back in a similar relationship.

Wow... .that venn diagram sounds unhealthy, like you would have to be seriously enmeshed and her slave?

One problem with making ultimatums, which seem to be what you listed, is that there has to be a consequence for breaking them. When you set an ultimatum but then don't enforce it, you condition people to do exactly the opposite of what you want. Even beyond that, is it likely that she will see your ultimatums as being controlling and manipulative?

What do you want from her? Do you want her to be back and a changed woman? Can you accept her without any change on her part?

[MyKryptonite]

Wow... .that venn diagram sounds unhealthy, like you would have to be seriously enmeshed and her slave?

One problem with making ultimatums, which seem to be what you listed, is that there has to be a consequence for breaking them. When you set an ultimatum but then don't enforce it, you condition people to do exactly the opposite of what you want. Even beyond that, is it likely that she will see your ultimatums as being controlling and manipulative?

What do you want from her? Do you want her to be back and a changed woman? Can you accept her without any change on her part?

Yes the Venn Diagram was definitely an eye opener and came about 24 hours before the final straw and my walking out. As for ultimatums, I'm not one to usually make them and because of that have not communicated them and no plans too. In fact I have had no communication in a couple months with the exception of a short note after her power bill was paid from my checking account, and a note when I mailed some of her possessions I found back to her. Based on what I know of her she WOULD see this list as my being controlling and manipulative not as a means for me to feel safe within the relationship, and the consequence of her not living up to them would be simple, my leaving.

The rest of your post is not as easy to answer. What do I want from her? Truthfully something that history tells me she can't provide long term, in part respect for my individuality, and boundaries, a civil relationship, and a partner in building a relationship and a life together (fortunately this relationship has helped me focus clearer on what i do want in a relationship) . Again, I don't believe she can provide any of that as she is now and I have seen no signs that she can or will change. So while I can accept her as she is, that is not the same as being willing to subject myself to a relationship in which I feel emotionally abused when she becomes dysregulated (is that the term?) and angry. It does not mean I am willing to subject myself to a relationship with someone who after weeks of my telling her "I feel invalidated, unappreciated, minimized and pushed away" waits until I have moved my things out to ask why I feel pushed away because ". . . everything I did was to try to hold on to you". Accepting her does not mean I am willing to be in a relationship in which I feel all the best of me is given/taken willingly only to be chewed up, mutilated and spit back out deformed and battered.

Wow this rant went to an angry place.

Didn't mean for that to happen.

In closing,

What I really want is to move on and find a way to cut the emotional/energetic ties I still maintain even though I have not seen her in two months. Get her out of my system if you will. She is living in her own hell and while I would love to be able to lift her out of it no one can do that but her.