This, for me, is the biggest stumbling block to moving on...

[houseofswans]

My doubting head is on today. Actually my doubting head is off and on so many times that I start to wonder if I've got her all wrong about having BPD/NPD/PTSD.

Those familiar with my posts (and there are many  ) will have a good idea of the sort of person she is. She has actually admitted to the PTSD whilst we were together, but only after our relationship had ended and I began to seek reasons for her behaviour to see if it was 'simply' PTSD, I 'stumbled' across BPD & NPD traits, it all fell into place and it lead me to this forum.

Now, that may be enough reason in itself just by finding this forum and reading accounts which ring true (as do my accounts ring true for others), that she is a high-functioning BPD with NPD traits - *a thought* I wonder if she was using the PTSD as an excuse for her behaviour, and either unwilling or unable to accept the fact that her disorder was more, much more than that?

Apparently, she had been in a relationship with (her words) "a Narcissist", who suddenly went from being sweetness and light to some deranged monster who would thump her (I've seen a photo of her with a black-eye). I did wonder that if he did have issues, but because of her BPD, couldn't take her behaviour and resorted to violence. This relationship was the foundation of her PTSD (or so she says) - see what happens, I took everything as absolute truth when she told me about this, as well as believing everything else she would tell me. Now I wonder if half the things she said were fabricated  

Anyhow, I'm going through the self-analysis phase (again), wondering if it was me, and not her. And I don't know why I even think that because I know the answer - at least I think I do - validation time?

I'm desperately trying to move forward and heal, I really am. And some days I wish her well and hope she finds peace, and other days I want the relationship with the new Mr X to fail - and fail miserably (even though they are so loved-up now).

She keeps me hanging on.

It was her insistence that we remain friends, not mine, so you would think that she would do something friendly like sending me an email, especially as she knows how big a deal conquering my fear of flying was for me recently. But nothing is forthcoming. She knows how lonely I am, but nothing by way of encouragement. I feel like she's getting back at me for making her feel abandoned when I would just walk away from her behaviour.

Mind you, there's been nothing saying that she no longer wants contact with me and to stop just turning up at her house unannounced (which I did all the time), even when she was with the former Mr X.

A recent post about the push-pull behaviour, whereby too close and fears of engulfment kick in, and likewise too distant and abandonment fears come to the fore. I did think that because we didn't live together (but were only 3 miles apart), that she might have felt this distance a good middle-ground, which is why we stayed together for so long.

My jealous head tells me that because the new Mr X lives 200 miles away, then she will have the best of both worlds. Not too close for the engulfment, and she doesn't feel abandoned because she knows her true love will come running when she asks - either that or she knows that despite the distance, there is someone who loves her, and whilst they are apart because of the distance, her heart continues to beat fast knowing that every so often they will be together and all will be well.

But, if that is the case, how does the engulfment/abandonment fears manifest if or when he decides to divorce his wife and set up home with my ex? We'd never lived together, so I wouldn't have a clue if being under the same roof would make things better or worse.

Today I feel like if she asked me, I'd go running back - and that despite knowing what I do. It would be a mistake I know that, it's just the fixer/rescuer in me that thinks I could heal her!

But the bum thing is that even if it didn't work out with the new knight-in-shining-armour Mr X, then she'd try and recycle the former Mr X (the one she was seeing whilst we were on a break). In effect I'd be third in line. And it was bad enough my fear of rejection the first time!

Yet... .

There were times when we were together that I wished she'd leave. There were times when we split that I didn't even care if she'd met someone else. I told her once that I wasn't going to come back, but because of what she offered I'd be a fool to leave her. I wish I'd have had the courage 4 years ago to walk away after the first red flags were waved in my direction.

She has now become a fantasy figure, an illusion. She is, in my mind, someone who I always wanted her to be, and if it wasn't for the disorder could be. It's about so many things that she did and things that we shared together, how she would dress and tease me sexually, that the focus is almost exclusively on those rather than her.

She was never treated so well by anyone else, she told me. Maybe she just got fed up with me triggering her so often, and instead of staying around whilst she laid blame on me for things that were her fault, I chose to walk away from the situation - the only way I knew how to deal with it.

She also said I wasn't strong enough as a person, and had issues of my own to be able to have a relationship with her. And of course, the new Mr X is strong, as well as being kind, considerate, would never abandon her and just about everything else that she is looking for and couldn't find in me :'(

Just my thoughts for today, friends.

Looking forward to hearing your thoughts... .

[LA4610]

i hope this eases your mind... .IT WON'T WORK OUT WITH THE NEW MR. X. i know how hard it is to realize this and how easy it is to compare yourself to him. that will consume your mind if you let it.

in regards to just being friends. you can't. these people are sick, you can't have normal relationships with them. trust me, for a month i hung on to the idea that we could be friends, maybe even one day get back together. when i finally let go of that notion i began to heal and when i did it allowed me to "step outside the war zone and really see what was going on in the battle". ironically, she texted me, but to no effect. i realize the games, the manipulation, the pull, etc. these people really are little children in adult bodies. until you let go of the idea of being friends, getting back together, ruminating about the new guy, you will never see this and continue to hurt. 

in regards to her not calling you, contacting you etc. she is probably doing that for a reason. it is another pull (albeit in a passive way). not contacting you has made you come back before right? it is another game. don't let it be. kick this sick women out your mind and life.

[fromheeltoheal]

It was her insistence that we remain friends, not mine, so you would think that she would do something friendly like sending me an email, especially as she knows how big a deal conquering my fear of flying was for me recently. But nothing is forthcoming. She knows how lonely I am, but nothing by way of encouragement. I feel like she's getting back at me for making her feel abandoned when I would just walk away from her behaviour.

If you're no longer in a relationship what she insists doesn't matter.  Oh course she wants you around pining for her, validation, but it will be all take and no give.  Time to take care of you.

[Reg]

Hi Houseofswans,

Your last lines reminded me of something from my past.  My es partner always said that she needed someone who was able to take control of her, and that she never had met someone who was able to do so in her whole life.  She even said at the end, and after it, that I allowed her to much.  And she was right on that matter !  

I think it all revolves around one and the same thing however, they think they will find someone who will accept all of their behavior, all of their unspoken wishes, as a magical wizzard from Oz.  So that they could actually almost feel normal I'd say.

And almost contradictying, but quite the same after all when we look deeper into it, someone who will stop them from what they do, from having their fears, shame, who will never leave them no matter what etc.

However their behavior is so self destructive, that at the long term almost nobody will accept this.

Fact is also that it is very hard to understand what actually has happened in their life, as the lies become the truth and vice versa, referring to what you said early in your post.

My ex has been treated like ___ if I am to believe her in all of her previous relationships.  But on the other hand she claimed to be still friends with all of them.  Which is not the case at all.  When I confronted her with that, she started to name boyfriends from the time she was in puberty !

Just to proof me wrong, she became friends again with the guy who had been beating her and almost made her end up in jail (her own words), some 16 years ago.  

Actually at the end, I don't have a clue anymore on what I can believe of all of her stories and what not.

Let me re-assure you about one thing however, the next guy is not any better off than you were.  It can take a bit longer, due to the distance, but the distance can also trigger the fear of abandonment beyond belief.  He is not there for her and for all of her needs.

My ex has been recycling the exes - the one she cheated me with - and the one after me, and she has painted all of them black as well.  With reason BTW as they are both known pwBPD !  

BPD doesn't really get any better, from what I've seen it just gets worse in many cases, there can be a period of some stability, but it doesn't last.

Hang in there, life is getting better, one day at the time, one step at the time.

Reg

[heartandwhole]

HouseofSwans,

It's really understandable that you are asking these questions.  It's so hard to let go, and the mind will go round and round, proving points, justifying, rationalizing, and questioning.

I'd like to very gently suggest that you try to focus that mental energy on yourself and your experience, right here, right now.  I know it's hard, but continuing to focus on your exgf and Mr. X slows down your healing and keeps you stuck.  It's a way of avoiding feeling what is happening inside of you, and the thoughts about your self-worth that are at the root of these ruminations.

What she/he does is not your concern.  You are your concern. This is your life, House, how do you want to live it?  

heart

[LynnieRe]

It will NEVER work out with ANYONE she's with.  Her BPD makes that IMPOSSIBLE!  My ex is with his "exit affair" the one who gave him strength to leave.  It has been 2 months, he doesn't want to speak to me unless it's during visitation or about visitation.  I haven't fought him on this.  So on the outside, he has this GF, instantly living there she has teenagers just like he does with both his "babymama's" and he's there playing daddy.  So to people who don't know, he looks like he's "doing better." Big new social life etc.  "I don't play video games anymore because I have a life"  However, last visitation, he was obviously drunk.  Also quite manic, dancing around the house, music on full blast, singing to himself, and propositioning me.  Awesome behaviour in front of children.  This is the beginning of the spiral. By being manic, he is not on his bipolar meds.  By drinking, he is self medicating.  This cycle has happened several times over the past 20 years, and the relationships always end with a suicide attempt, a hospitalization, back on meds, sobriety, and then a new relationship.  Which starts all over again.  My advice to you is to sit back, don't get involved, and start watching for familiar signs.  Also stop stop stop looking at yourself.  She has nothing to do with you.  She could have a relationship with a mop and her behaviors will be the same.  DETACH! 

[LynnieRe]

 

It will NEVER work out with ANYONE she's with.  Her BPD makes that IMPOSSIBLE!  My ex is with his "exit affair" the one who gave him strength to leave.  It has been 2 months, he doesn't want to speak to me unless it's during visitation or about visitation.  I haven't fought him on this.  So on the outside, he has this GF, instantly living there she has teenagers just like he does with both his "babymama's" and he's there playing daddy.  So to people who don't know, he looks like he's "doing better." Big new social life etc.  "I don't play video games anymore because I have a life"  However, last visitation, he was obviously drunk.  Also quite manic, dancing around the house, music on full blast, singing to himself, and propositioning me.  Awesome behaviour in front of children.  This is the beginning of the spiral. By being manic, he is not on his bipolar meds.  By drinking, he is self medicating.  This cycle has happened several times over the past 20 years, and the relationships always end with a suicide attempt, a hospitalization, back on meds, sobriety, and then a new relationship.  Which starts all over again.  My advice to you is to sit back, don't get involved, and start watching for familiar signs.  Also stop stop stop looking at yourself.  She has nothing to do with you.  She could have a relationship with a mop and her behaviors will be the same.  DETACH! 

[LA4610]

"She could have a relationship with a mop and her behaviors will be the same."

... .so true

[houseofswans]

Thanks to those that have responded so far.

You all talk sense, of course - still these thoughts are with me, and only by sharing will I be able to exorcise them from my head.

Regarding her as the single woman and him as the married man, this is something I saw on another website:

The relationship itself is based on falsehood. No matter what he says about his spouse, he’s only portraying one side. Yes, she may be difficult, cold or demanding. He surely has his flaws, too. Besides, he’s the one doing the cheating. That speaks volumes about his moral compass.

The other woman’s behavior can have a disastrous impact on his kids.

Meanwhile, the outlook for the affair isn’t pretty. Married men seldom leave their wives, regardless of what they tell their mistresses. They have too much at stake, too many personal and financial irons in the fire. If they do leave, the ensuing relationships are tenuous at best. Some survive. Most implode under the guilt and deception they’ve created.

Let’s not forget the purely carnal aspect. As long as it’s illicit and forbidden, sparks fly. If he were to actually leave his wife or partner to make this relationship permanent, brace yourself for a nosedive. For starters, he cheated on her with  you, so how could you ever know he wouldn’t treat you the same way?

www.sanluisobispo.com/2013/02/12/2390598/why-do-women-fall-for-married.html

That wasn't taken from a website dealing with disordered people, so presumably it is between two 'healthy' individuals.

Add her BPD/NPD/PTSD, and it could well be that he has issues as well, and it does seem like their 'perfect' match will flounder... .

[ScotisGone74]

I would note that, from what I have witnessed:    BPD s love having a partner that is married, this gives them exactly what they want, someone who is not going to get too close, and yet probably won't get too far away, for a while anyway.  A BPD knows exactly how to exploit any problems in a relationship of another couple, because honestly they exploit any problems in their own relationships. 

[ShadowDancer]

About Mr. X. Please be mindful of two things:

1. Unless you have met him yourself and have fully discussed his interpretations about this transaction with Ms. Ex you are presently basing what you "think" you know about him on her confabulations and fantastical descriptions and expectations of who and what he is.

2. Mr. X is a married man and is cheating on his wife with your cheating Ms. Ex. Where are your boundaries?

About You. Please be mindful about two things;

1. She does not "keep you hanging on". That is your choice of your own free will.

2. Do you really want to continue enmeshing your life with this disgusting triangulating mess of a pair?

P.S. You may enjoy Youtube "Supremes-You keep me hanging on"

[bpdspell]

Moving on and detaching aren't mutually exclusive.

Yes. We can try to "forget" about them, block them from our memories, block them from FACEbook, keep ourselves busy, date others, repress our memories, or hate and despise them until they explode into tiny pieces in our minds but that is not detaching. All of those actions keep them very alive in our hearts, minds and subconscious.

When we are active in our detachment we use the personal insight part of ourselves to discover the intricate complexities of the disorder of BPD, Narcissism and we explore the "whys" of desiring to be with someone who lacks the capacity to  treat us well and share with us mature reciprocal love.

Stumbling blocks are certainly a part of this journey but you must realize that a person with BPD is a very sick person, an emotionally stunted and damaged child, and a person who is given way too much power and influence over our lives due to our own self-worth issues. Forget the two dimension image of blood and bone. Our ex's are a storehouse of core damaged wounds, psychic trauma, abandonment trauma, and a shattered history of pain that existed way before we entered the picture.

It is a toxic dance that takes two to tango but in order for you to unhook you've got to look within.

I'm not sure how far out you are houseofswans but I can testify that it took me an entire year of rumination, hating my ex, wanting to see him suffer and fail, and living in a cave of toxic but addictive memories that keep me stuck in the neutrality of not wanting to let go. I wasn't detaching and was used to emotional avoidance and living in a state of confusion as a coping mechanism to not face the brutal honesty of how I really felt about myself.

You need answers but I can guarantee they won't come from your ex. It takes courage to face your own demons, psychic trauma, and your feelings of abandonment. I certainly resented having to feel my own feelings but it is a very necessary part of breaking the toxic bond and hold that our ex's have on us.

Spell

[ShadowDancer]

House,

I am not attacking or ganging up on you. I want you to understand first and foremost I'm interested in that your "leaving and detaching" is successful and when experience tells me to speak this truth as I see it I will do so. You make one very grave and unfortunate self centered personal perspective assumption that is TOTALLY incorrect IMO. That is specifically your refer to your self as "third in line", as if her life started with you.

You are totally incorrect in that assumption. If this person has been as promiscuous in her past as she appears to be now in her present you are at least "Mr. 50 in line". AT LEAST!  

This is why I no longer term these affairs as "relationships, I term them as "transactions" as in... .I'm sure you get my drift.

If you continue to see her sexually on the present carousel of exchanges please use protection.

[Ironmanrises]

My doubting head is on today. Actually my doubting head is off and on so many times that I start to wonder if I've got her all wrong about having BPD/NPD/PTSD.

Those familiar with my posts (and there are many  ) will have a good idea of the sort of person she is. She has actually admitted to the PTSD whilst we were together, but only after our relationship had ended and I began to seek reasons for her behaviour to see if it was 'simply' PTSD, I 'stumbled' across BPD & NPD traits, it all fell into place and it lead me to this forum.

Now, that may be enough reason in itself just by finding this forum and reading accounts which ring true (as do my accounts ring true for others), that she is a high-functioning BPD with NPD traits - *a thought* I wonder if she was using the PTSD as an excuse for her behaviour, and either unwilling or unable to accept the fact that her disorder was more, much more than that?

Apparently, she had been in a relationship with (her words) "a Narcissist", who suddenly went from being sweetness and light to some deranged monster who would thump her (I've seen a photo of her with a black-eye). I did wonder that if he did have issues, but because of her BPD, couldn't take her behaviour and resorted to violence. This relationship was the foundation of her PTSD (or so she says) - see what happens, I took everything as absolute truth when she told me about this, as well as believing everything else she would tell me. Now I wonder if half the things she said were fabricated  

Anyhow, I'm going through the self-analysis phase (again), wondering if it was me, and not her. And I don't know why I even think that because I know the answer - at least I think I do - validation time?

I'm desperately trying to move forward and heal, I really am. And some days I wish her well and hope she finds peace, and other days I want the relationship with the new Mr X to fail - and fail miserably (even though they are so loved-up now).

She keeps me hanging on.

It was her insistence that we remain friends, not mine, so you would think that she would do something friendly like sending me an email, especially as she knows how big a deal conquering my fear of flying was for me recently. But nothing is forthcoming. She knows how lonely I am, but nothing by way of encouragement. I feel like she's getting back at me for making her feel abandoned when I would just walk away from her behaviour.

Mind you, there's been nothing saying that she no longer wants contact with me and to stop just turning up at her house unannounced (which I did all the time), even when she was with the former Mr X.

A recent post about the push-pull behaviour, whereby too close and fears of engulfment kick in, and likewise too distant and abandonment fears come to the fore. I did think that because we didn't live together (but were only 3 miles apart), that she might have felt this distance a good middle-ground, which is why we stayed together for so long.

My jealous head tells me that because the new Mr X lives 200 miles away, then she will have the best of both worlds. Not too close for the engulfment, and she doesn't feel abandoned because she knows her true love will come running when she asks - either that or she knows that despite the distance, there is someone who loves her, and whilst they are apart because of the distance, her heart continues to beat fast knowing that every so often they will be together and all will be well.

But, if that is the case, how does the engulfment/abandonment fears manifest if or when he decides to divorce his wife and set up home with my ex? We'd never lived together, so I wouldn't have a clue if being under the same roof would make things better or worse.

Today I feel like if she asked me, I'd go running back - and that despite knowing what I do. It would be a mistake I know that, it's just the fixer/rescuer in me that thinks I could heal her!

But the bum thing is that even if it didn't work out with the new knight-in-shining-armour Mr X, then she'd try and recycle the former Mr X (the one she was seeing whilst we were on a break). In effect I'd be third in line. And it was bad enough my fear of rejection the first time!

Yet... .

There were times when we were together that I wished she'd leave. There were times when we split that I didn't even care if she'd met someone else. I told her once that I wasn't going to come back, but because of what she offered I'd be a fool to leave her. I wish I'd have had the courage 4 years ago to walk away after the first red flags were waved in my direction.

She has now become a fantasy figure, an illusion. She is, in my mind, someone who I always wanted her to be, and if it wasn't for the disorder could be. It's about so many things that she did and things that we shared together, how she would dress and tease me sexually, that the focus is almost exclusively on those rather than her.

She was never treated so well by anyone else, she told me. Maybe she just got fed up with me triggering her so often, and instead of staying around whilst she laid blame on me for things that were her fault, I chose to walk away from the situation - the only way I knew how to deal with it.

She also said I wasn't strong enough as a person, and had issues of my own to be able to have a relationship with her. And of course, the new Mr X is strong, as well as being kind, considerate, would never abandon her and just about everything else that she is looking for and couldn't find in me :'(

Just my thoughts for today, friends.

Looking forward to hearing your thoughts... .

In bold.

House... .

Reading through all the accounts... .

On this forum... .

You know... .

That it will not work out... .

With that new Mr. X.

Her disorder... .

Will unleash... .

Rain of fire... .

On him too.

Unless... .

He decides... .

To leave her first.

Either way... .

Her disorder... .

Will sprout forth.

And she will... .

Probably... .

Most likely... .

Contact the other Mr. X... .

And... .

You... .

At the same time.

And see who... .

Responds first.

I know all of this... .

Is not easy to digest.

I get that.

I have trouble too... .

With processing... .

This.

I know nothing... .

Of what my ex... .

Is doing or not doing... .

Since she left me... .

And went NC.

That not knowing... .

Doesnt cure the hurt... .

But it dampens it... .

At least.

Hang in there friend.

[hopealways]

Not knowing certainly is better than knowing. It helps the healing.

[Learning_curve74]

swans, I'm sorry you're struggling so much. It can be very tough. 

I also see that you've posted a lot about her, about her new guy(s), and wondering what she will do. That's all good and well because you seem very bewildered and confused.

But... .one thing I haven't seen you write much about is what you want. What do you want from her? She sounds like an awful partner and just as awful a "friend" to me. Granted, I've never met her, so I'm just going off what you've written. Is it really her that you want or are you just afraid to be without her? Or is it something else that you want?

[houseofswans]

Not knowing certainly is better than knowing. It helps the healing.

Yes, I agree 100% percent 

[houseofswans]

In bold.

House... .

Reading through all the accounts... .

On this forum... .

You know... .

That it will not work out... .

With that new Mr. X.

Her disorder... .

Will unleash... .

Rain of fire... .

On him too.

Unless... .

He decides... .

To leave her first.

Either way... .

Her disorder... .

Will sprout forth.

And she will... .

Probably... .

Most likely... .

Contact the other Mr. X... .

And... .

You... .

At the same time.

And see who... .

Responds first.

I know all of this... .

Is not easy to digest.

I get that.

I have trouble too... .

With processing... .

This.

I know nothing... .

Of what my ex... .

Is doing or not doing... .

Since she left me... .

And went NC.

That not knowing... .

Doesnt cure the hurt... .

But it dampens it... .

At least.

Hang in there friend.

Ironman - always good to hear your thoughts 

I'm almost there with my concerns about them - there will be more from me until I can finally say to myself "I'm convinced"

[houseofswans]

But... .one thing I haven't seen you write much about is what you want. What do you want from her? She sounds like an awful partner and just as awful a "friend" to me. Granted, I've never met her, so I'm just going off what you've written. Is it really her that you want or are you just afraid to be without her? Or is it something else that you want?

LC, that is a really good question and one that I struggle with on a daily basis.

I agree that she comes across as an awful person, and just as bad a friend.

I'm not afraid to be without her - I was without her 4 years ago, but since I have known her she has enriched my life in ways that I find hard articulating.

The woman I have in my head is the fantasy woman I always wanted her to become i.e. without the disorder/s

I am co-dependent and a rescuer/fixer, and that's what I hope to be getting therapy for to help me overcome.

[houseofswans]

About Mr. X. Please be mindful of two things:

1. Unless you have met him yourself and have fully discussed his interpretations about this transaction with Ms. Ex you are presently basing what you "think" you know about him on her confabulations and fantastical descriptions and expectations of who and what he is.

Yes, I agree with that. I only have her account of how wonderful he is



2. Mr. X is a married man and is cheating on his wife with your cheating Ms. Ex. Where are your boundaries?

Indeed, and it has to be said, where are his and her boundaries?

About You. Please be mindful about two things;

1. She does not "keep you hanging on". That is your choice of your own free will.

2. Do you really want to continue enmeshing your life with this disgusting triangulating mess of a pair?

No, a thousand times no. But... .

[Ironmanrises]

But... .one thing I haven't seen you write much about is what you want. What do you want from her? She sounds like an awful partner and just as awful a "friend" to me. Granted, I've never met her, so I'm just going off what you've written. Is it really her that you want or are you just afraid to be without her? Or is it something else that you want?

LC, that is a really good question and one that I struggle with on a daily basis.

I agree that she comes across as an awful person, and just as bad a friend.

I'm not afraid to be without her - I was without her 4 years ago, but since I have known her she has enriched my life in ways that I find hard articulating.

The woman I have in my head is the fantasy woman I always wanted her to become i.e. without the disorder/s

I am co-dependent and a rescuer/fixer, and that's what I hope to be getting therapy for to help me overcome.

In bold.

Connect those words... .

The woman i have in my head is the woman without the disorder.

That is the side... .

Of her... .

That you... .

Fell in love with... .

Until... .

Her other side... .

Appeared... .

When she was triggered.

Link the 2 sides... .

Of her... .

And that is... .

Who she is.

Both.

As one.

The bringer of joy... .

And... .

The bringer of sadness... .

And... .

Ultimate pain... .

To you.

I know it hurts.

I do.

I miss the original side... .

Of my ex too.

But i cannot forget... .

How she behaved... .

Towards me... .

When she was triggered... .

Both times.

In both rounds.

That is... .

Who she is.

Two contrasting personalities... .

In one.

Who has hurt me.

Like yours... .

Has hurt you.

[ShadowDancer]

About Mr. X. Please be mindful of two things:

1. Unless you have met him yourself and have fully discussed his interpretations about this transaction with Ms. Ex you are presently basing what you "think" you know about him on her confabulations and fantastical descriptions and expectations of who and what he is.

Yes, I agree with that. I only have her account of how wonderful he is



2. Mr. X is a married man and is cheating on his wife with your cheating Ms. Ex. Where are your boundaries?

Indeed, and it has to be said, where are his and her boundaries?

About You. Please be mindful about two things;

1. She does not "keep you hanging on". That is your choice of your own free will.

2. Do you really want to continue enmeshing your life with this disgusting triangulating mess of a pair?

No, a thousand times no. But... .

But... .What? Mikey likes it?

The only way to step out the circle of pain is to STEP OUT!

[Lady31]

But... .What? Mikey likes it?

The only way to step out the circle of pain is to STEP OUT!

LMBO!

[Lady31]

House,

The only way you are going to get peace is when you close the door on her (and whomever she is with currently) and walk away - and heal yourself.

Even if she comes back, it will be more of the same - wait - let me take that back.  It will get worse and worse.  It seems that most the time the recycles are shorter and shorter with less and less "good times" and become more and more volatile.

SHE IS NOT the person YOU are making her to be in your mind.  You getting free from her is not going to come from finding the answers to what is going to happen between her and the new guy. (Although it's okay to need to go through all this processing.)

Here is how you are going to get free - you start working on:

1)  Seeing her for who she REALLY is.  Stop making up fantasies about her. 

2)  Work on yourself so that you build your self esteem and no longer DESIRE a person like her.

This was the core of me getting out of the fog, and beginning to heal and letting go of my exh.  I am still letting go of the remnants of him, but I don't have any contact with him, I see him for who he really is and I don't DESIRE him anymore.

You can do it too.

So there is your key.  If you will make efforts to start doing those two things, you will see yourself making HUGE progress.

Why don't you post a list for us of all the things about her character/behavior that you do not desire in a mate. 

[houseofswans]

But... .What? Mikey likes it?

The only way to step out the circle of pain is to STEP OUT!

LMBO!

I don't understand what "Mikey likes it" means 

[houseofswans]

House,

The only way you are going to get peace is when you close the door on her (and whomever she is with currently) and walk away - and heal yourself.

Even if she comes back, it will be more of the same - wait - let me take that back.  It will get worse and worse.  It seems that most the time the recycles are shorter and shorter with less and less "good times" and become more and more volatile.

SHE IS NOT the person YOU are making her to be in your mind.  You getting free from her is not going to come from finding the answers to what is going to happen between her and the new guy. (Although it's okay to need to go through all this processing.)

Here is how you are going to get free - you start working on:

1)  Seeing her for who she REALLY is.  Stop making up fantasies about her. 

2)  Work on yourself so that you build your self esteem and no longer DESIRE a person like her.

This was the core of me getting out of the fog, and beginning to heal and letting go of my exh.  I am still letting go of the remnants of him, but I don't have any contact with him, I see him for who he really is and I don't DESIRE him anymore.

You can do it too.

So there is your key.  If you will make efforts to start doing those two things, you will see yourself making HUGE progress.

Thank you for that, I am trying... .

[santa]

She may have it. She may not. We're not doctors, right? Either way, you can attest that there's something pretty wrong with her.

I'll tell you my biggest problem about moving on... .and it's been about 3 months now. I keep thinking that we'll patch things up and get back together and I don't want to have a bunch of loose ends creating problems later (girls calling, having my number, etc.). Maybe it's irrational, but I still feel like I don't want to have to deal with that if we work things out, even though that seems improbable.

[ShadowDancer]

But... .What? Mikey likes it?

The only way to step out the circle of pain is to STEP OUT!

LMBO!

I don't understand what "Mikey likes it" means  

It is 70s old school. In short Mikey likes EVERYTHING... .unless it's good for him! It's on Youtube.

[Discovery]

houseofswans,

My jealous head tells me that because the new Mr X lives 200 miles away, then she will have the best of both worlds. Not too close for the engulfment, and she doesn't feel abandoned because she knows her true love will come running when she asks - either that or she knows that despite the distance, there is someone who loves her, and whilst they are apart because of the distance, her heart continues to beat fast knowing that every so often they will be together and all will be well.

But, if that is the case, how does the engulfment/abandonment fears manifest if or when he decides to divorce his wife and set up home with my ex?

I haven't read the whole thread yet, but just wanted to offer this perspective. I was in a LDR with my uBPDx. EVEN SO, with only seeing each other every 2-3 months, for 1-2 weeks at a time, they can still do the push-pull... .it does not have to be IN PERSON. And the cracks where I'd see the crazy BPD reactivity still showed up even though the set-up made it be almost like honeymoon phases one after another... .the fact is NO r/s stays in the honeymoon phase. You get to know more about each other and guess what? You find out no one is perfect. In my experience, even if you see each other infrequently and LD, it doesn't take that long before little issues come up... .after all, you are two different people.

My r/s ended when the LDR was about to change and I was about to MOVE to live w/ him.

But it wasn't a walk in the park all the time prior. I think the MORE frequently you are together, the faster the s*** shows up. But it will show up eventually, so don't believe that it won't just b/c the new partner lives farther away. Please don't hurt yourself worrying about this. People w BPD just CAN'T DO intimate long-term r/s unless they GET HELP. I count 3 "Mr. X" s in your email (prior to you, you, and the new guy)... .This is a pattern. You just haven't seen the next chapter play out yet. But from reading this board and learning about the reality of BPD, it WILL. I hope you can detach from this person.

Wishing you clarity and strength.

[goldylamont]

I'll tell you my biggest problem about moving on... .and it's been about 3 months now. I keep thinking that we'll patch things up and get back together and I don't want to have a bunch of loose ends creating problems later (girls calling, having my number, etc.). Maybe it's irrational, but I still feel like I don't want to have to deal with that if we work things out, even though that seems improbable.

after breaking up there was one person who i could have been intimate with who ultimately i didn't because this was (one of) the people my ex accused me of cheating on her with. and for the same reasons i didn't want to pollute any chances of reconciliation with me sleeping with this person... and i'm glad i did this, for myself. not for her. it feels good that i didn't try to seek revenge against her pettiness this way.

buuuut, in the same token santa. if your ex is out there dating other guys/gals, it's not going to help you to sit on your hands. of course you shouldn't do anything with anyone if you're not ready (please don't  ). but she'd probably lose respect and increase the devaluing of you if she senses you're just there waiting for her. if you work things out, great, but you need to be having fun in your life separate from her or this person will likely walk all over you. you deserve it, have fun! i'm glad i didn't get intimate with one person in particular, but during our break even though i was delusional and wanted reconciliation my ex took a back seat as far as me dating and seeing other people. they're not used to this kind of treatment.