Am I overreacting or are my feelings normal ?

[Hutsepotmetworst]

Context :

now five months in relationship with UBPDGF, a hell of a lot of drama throughout the five months.

She has a best male friend who she knew long before me. This guy is divorced and is hitting on her.

Every time they meet or talk on the phone he keeps asking about our relationship, or flirting with her.

Now yesterday my UBPDGF brought up an argument we had a time ago about the following :

We were lying in bed together, when she got a phone call from her best friend. She tells him that it's no problem that he calls, that she's lying in bed. She doesn't mention that I am there too.

The phone call lasts about a quarter of an hour. During the last minutes he, again, tells her how special their connection is, and how it's always so fine when they meet. She replies at his flirting by telling him that I am the man of her live, and she loves me very much.

After the phone call she turns to me, and I say to her that I'm unhappy with that call. To that she really gets mad at me, saying that I should be ecstatic of joy with her declaring her love for me on the phone.

But to me, our bed is a very intimate place, and it was invaded by someone who hits on her, and she didn't put any effort in stopping the call, even when it was so obvious where it went to.

I know for sure, that if I received such a call, she would totally freak out on me, and probably would even try to end our relationship. But she never can see that, she never can see things from my point of view... .

Or is it just me who is overreacting... .

Just really doubting myself now... .

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[waverider]

Your feelings are normal, and her behavior was disrespectful. It is typical BPD behavior though.

It is a question of having a boundary and how to apply it appropriately with least confrontation that you need to work on.

ie dont talk to ANYONE while you are in bed. Your response, you will get up and leave the bed/room if it occurs. Dont make it about the person as that is part of the "game". Dont argue or get in a mood about it. Just do it.

Is it a reasonable boundary? Yes, if only because it makes you feel wrong inside, fairness has nothing to do with boundaries, so you dont need to justify it.

[Hutsepotmetworst]

At the start of the call, I eventually left the bedroom and went to the bathroom for a minute.

Hoping that she would get the clue, and put an end to the conversation... .

Idle hope  :'(

Really having trouble to enforce such boundaries. If I leave the room, for her, it's like abandoning her and I'm the devil in person.

[connect]

Hello,

I totally get where you are coming from here as I have also dealt with a similar issue with my bf having a female best friend (she was an ex who still loved him)

Read my old posts if you want to see how this sort of thing goes with BPD. I think that your gf honestly did think she should get points for the comments she made about being in love with you and she just couldnt see how you were hurt by the rest. And yes  - they were nice comments but like you I would feel uncomfortable with the rest of it. I agree with Waverider that getting up and leaving the room without a fuss is a good solution.

My bf genuinley feels that it was/is ok to be on the recieving end of flirtation/declarations from his female best friend as long as he doesnt actually DO anything physical. For me I think that allowing that talk to continue is encouraging that other person but he does not see it this way. I think that pwBPD have such a strong drive for validation that they will accept these compliments where they can sometimes. Also my bf would NEVER allow me the same scenario. Unfortunately I cant change how he views this and have developed a certain acceptance that this is what he does - he ended up getting himself in a bad situation with this as his best friend did feel "encouraged" (as I told him she would) and it all blew up - he was bemused as to how this happened - seriously - he didnt think he had contributed to it at all! He was seeing her a few times a week and went away with her and her kids and his child. Of course she thought that he was interested in her physically! He has had moments of clarity round this and apologised to me and reduced contact with her now to the bare essentials but on the whole his default setting is she is/was just a friend and its not his fault if she loves him.

If she is telling him she loves you then that is a great sign and I think you have not so much to worry about as regards him. The way she handles things is her side of the street so to speak and all you can do is make sure you stick to your values. The things we pick up on,  a pwBPD doesnt seem to pick up on in the same way. My bf, like your gf would talk to his best friend and not mention I was there in the initial part of the convo and it drove me nuts. For him though it was no big deal - I have since spotted that he does this even if he is talking to his mum so it was not always about the fact that he was talking to his best friend.

Be careful that you dont end up in circular arguments over this. I pitted myself openly (after much provocation) against his best friend and all that did was esculate the situation and made him defend her more and put me as the "bad guy" - I think I could have handled it better by talking more of a back seat. I have noticed that once they feel backed into a corner (however justified we nons are) then they will defend like crazy which in turn can make them more focused on how important that best friend r/s is to them. The thing is to us this stuff can feel really really personal - but to them it doesnt have the same weight.

Have you met her friend? You said that the actual incident happened a while ago but she bought it up yesterday. Why did she bring this up yesterday?

[Hutsepotmetworst]

Thanks Connect for sharing your experience !   

Helps me a lot to put things in the right perspective.

And like your bf, my gf didn't see much harm in maintaining contact with her friend.

Since that night however, I really tried to convince her that she needs to create some distance with him. And in some way I believe she has seen the light  but then again, since then I believe she has just replaced him with another best male friend 

That's also something I struggle with... .whenever she meets a new "nice" man, she starts telling him about her terrible youth, even when she never has met this man before. For her, it seems like an ongoing search for compassion and love. For me, it's difficult that she opens up so easily to other men about her past. She has totally no sexually interest in these men, but I believe her "opening up" is a sign to these men that she's available, or interested in "more".

That night came up yesterday, because we were in a huge fight, and then she throws everything that happened during our rs in my face.

[connect]

Glad to help - believe me I have been there! (and still am sometimes) Exactly where you are now.

My bf also does the same thing. He will open up to women on the first meeting and tell them lots of intimate stuff about himself and gain their compassion. He does this with men too but not nearly so much - women are more receptive. He did this with me on our first meeting and I thought "wow this guy is so open with me. Men are never normally this open. He must really like me to open up this much so soon" and so I assumed that he did like me.

Of course NOW I know that he does this with most women he meets. And so yes a lot of them think... ."wow this guy is so open with me. Men are never normally this open. He must really like me to open up this much so soon". And I cant blame them as I did too. There is a huge lack of inhibitions with my bf and personal walls. He lets people into his intimate world immediately without any screening for if that person deserves his trust. This in itself is wierd as he tells me that he has huge problems trusting people so to do this is at odds with his general mistrust of people. A connundrum indeed... .

But again he doesnt see it the same way I do (as doesnt your gf) in his world he is just talking. He is just being honest. He is just enjoying meeting someone, a new friend. I see it as he is adding to his list of people who will verify his bad past experiences and confirm to him that yes, he is a good person and has been wronged. He does not see that his openness can be interpretted in a different way as most people do not behave like this! I have tried to explain this to him before but he really doesnt get it. I think he feels that everyone does this with people when they first meet. He sees a lot of people as "closed"  - me included. He doesnt see that people release intimate parts of their lives usually after knowing someone a while. (with the exception of support groups like this)

[connect]

I think that where this stuff feels personal to me is that these new "nice" women are having the same conversations with him that I do. It can feel like the r/s I have with him is not deep and intimate as the deep and intimate stuff is available to anyone. This is how he is though... he needs constant reassurance from various sources. Hard for us and accepting that they do this is hard too. I was in denial about this for a long time - now I face up to the fact that this is what he does. I choose to stay but it has been a battle within myself sometimes. I have wondered what the difference is between me and these other people having the same convos with him. Is the difference sex? Is it quantity of time spent together? For me a r/s with a a partner means expressing things to them that are just for them - that you dont share with everyone else - so your r/s is special. He must think our r/s is special but in a different interpretation of how I think of it as special.

Me and him look at the world differently and it's not always a slur on our r/s even though I can feel like it is sometimes.

[Hutsepotmetworst]

There is a huge lack of inhibitions with my bf and personal walls. He lets people into his intimate world immediately without any screening for if that person deserves his trust. This in itself is weird as he tells me that he has huge problems trusting people so to do this is at odds with his general mistrust of people. A conundrum indeed... .

Yes, my gf is also very sensitive and very easily hurt, so I would expect her to be cautious in contact with new people, but she's not, quite the opposite.

She even asked me several times, "Why do men fall in love so easily with me ?"... .

When I try to explain the above, she just can't believe that she's behaving in a special way, far more open than other people. She thinks it has something to do with her face and eyes... .

... .in his world he is just talking. He is just being honest. He is just enjoying meeting someone, a new friend.

Yep, one of my gf's favourite statements is "But I'm always honest ! I do nothing wrong !".

And technically she doesn't do anything wrong, it's just she behaves in a special way, without few personal boundaries. Since she lost her parents at young age, I think she had no idea how to enforce these boundaries or learn about grown-up men-women communication.

[Hutsepotmetworst]

I think that where this stuff feels personal to me is that these new "nice" women are having the same conversations with him that I do. It can feel like the r/s I have with him is not deep and intimate as the deep and intimate stuff is available to anyone. This is how he is though... he needs constant reassurance from various sources. Hard for us and accepting that they do this is hard too. I was in denial about this for a long time - now I face up to the fact that this is what he does. I choose to stay but it has been a battle within myself sometimes. I have wondered what the difference is between me and these other people having the same convos with him. Is the difference sex? Is it quantity of time spent together? For me a r/s with a a partner means expressing things to them that are just for them - that you dont share with everyone else - so your r/s is special. He must think our r/s is special but in a different interpretation of how I think of it as special.

I felt like this too for a period of time. Just wondering what the difference was between me and those other men... .

But now I know in my mind that I'm truly special for her, because she told me things she will never tell another guy and took me to very personal places she never went with someone else.

But still my heart stops sometimes if she tells me about some contact with another man, and how sweet and understanding he is... .

Just like you, an internal battle... .

And I have to admit that sometimes my heart that's afraid wins it from my logical mind, and I truly doubt the love of my gf for me, and then I fire some questions at her about her male friends. To which she reacts with ":)on't you trust me ? I would never betray you !".

It's tough... .I do cry sometimes because of my own weakness about this.

[waverider]

Its linked back to a lack of balance or regulation.

When they are talking to these third parties, it is not about the third party it is about themselves. Hence the third party is transferrable to whomever will give them their attention.

By being this open they encourage this attention, but they manage to project the responsibility for this attention onto the third party rather than own that they created this situation.

The other person is in a way being used so that they can validate themselves and feel popular. It is not balanced they are simply meeting their own immediate needs. Appropriateness is far from their mind. Its not malicious, just self serving

[connect]

I have cried too, many times over this stuff   I still struggle with it.

I am glad your gf does show you how special you are to her - she sounds as though she really knows you are :-)

From being on these boards for so long I can see there seems to be a common trait of not being tactful from some pwBPD. I am tactful with my bf - but he sees this as me editing the truth and not being honest. He doesnt like me to reframe my sentances around his feelings - he feels this is dishonest. So he can say some tactless, blunt things which I find hurtful (like upholding the virtues of other women etc) but to him he is just being honest. He also says the same things your gf does "I am just being honest - I have done nothing wrong!" So to him honesty in expressing feelings ranks higher than hurting other peoples feelings. I am not built that way  

I read your old posts and see that for a while she declined all friendships from other men (perhaps as an example to get you to do the same with women) so is she now settling down to a more balanced perspective on this? Rather than all or nothing? I am ok with my bf having female friends - it was just when the friendships strayed onto "my patch" so to speak that I have a problem. Or when the female friends got the wrong idea and held that belief for a long time due to his behaviours. It has caused friction as he just doesnt see it sometimes. I am rambling a bit... .

[connect]

Waverider... .

By being this open they encourage this attention, but they manage to project the responsibility for this attention onto the third party rather than own that they created this situation.

So so true... .and like Hutsepotmetworst's gf says "why do men fall in love with me so easily?" my bf will say "women really like me I think it's because I am tall and protective" He puts the ownership of these womens feelings at their door and not his. He is just an innocent party who gets attention as a byproduct.

I also agree that this validation from a third party is interchangable and is not specific to the person. This is why it's not personal - but of course in the context of a r/s it sure can feel personal sometimes. Understanding the dynamics of this does help. As long as I can get my heart to listen to my brain.

[Changingman]

I think that where this stuff feels personal to me is that these new "nice" women are having the same conversations with him that I do. It can feel like the r/s I have with him is not deep and intimate as the deep and intimate stuff is available to anyone. This is how he is though... he needs constant reassurance from various sources. Hard for us and accepting that they do this is hard too. I was in denial about this for a long time - now I face up to the fact that this is what he does. I choose to stay but it has been a battle within myself sometimes. I have wondered what the difference is between me and these other people having the same convos with him. Is the difference sex? Is it quantity of time spent together? For me a r/s with

a a partner means expressing things to them that are just for them - that you dont share with everyone else - so your r/s is special. He must think our r/s is special but in a different interpretation of how I think of it as special.

I felt like this too for a period of time. Just wondering what the difference was between me and those other men... .

But now I know in my mind that I'm truly special for her, because she told me things she will never tell another guy and took me to very personal places she never went with someone else.

But still my heart stops sometimes if she tells me about some contact with another man, and how sweet and understanding he is... .

Just like you, an internal battle... .

And I have to admit that sometimes my heart that's afraid wins it from my logical mind, and I truly doubt the love of my gf for me, and then I fire some questions at her about her male friends. To which she reacts with ":)on't you trust me ? I would never betray you !".

It's tough... .I do cry sometimes because of my own weakness about this.

I had these words and conversations with my uBPDxgf. I was uncomfortable with her RS with old boyfriends. When I told her she acted like I was paranoid, untrusting etc. She let me meet them! why would I want to meet them?

They are there to show you other men want your job, fall back if she splits you, for revenge and... .when she wants new men in her life it doesn't seem so strange. You will find out it was your fault she slept with x or new. And anything she says with all honesty will change with her fluctuating moods, all said before doesn't exist just the now andherwants and needs. Sh is mentally ill.

[Changingman]

She slowly

broke everything

and I laughed

lost in the cabaret,

wild as her.

At the end

Nothing

But

Pain

shame

Humiliation

And what could have been.

Some escape from hell

Some are hell escaped