Dealing with his drama around needing his "space"...

[Depression = 72% of members]

Hi everyone,

After a little advice here please - not sure how to handle this re-occurring situation in our r/s... .

He needs a fair bit of space. Days and nights "off" - if he doesnt get this space he will throw a wobbly and dysregulate or even dump me. I do give him space when he asks (and try to pre-empt it) but the problem is that he doesn't always tell me and I'm not a mind reader  

Typical example from this weekend.

I left his house on Thurs morning and leave a note for him saying "It's Thursday so enjoy your night to yourself and hopefully catch up tomorrow baby x" (This is as he says he wants Thursdays to himself and I am trying to listen to this) Late Thurs afternoon he texts me and asks me to come round and stay. I do. Lovely fun weekend together staying at his place.

Late Sat night he seems a bit twitchy/withdrawing. I ask him a few times if he is ok and he says that he is fine. I go to bed early and he almost critically asks me why I am not staying up late with him - I say I am tired and I also figured he could do with a few hours to himself - he agrees and thanks me.

He wakes this morning in a foul mood (him staying up late drinking prob didnt help) he starts blaming himself that "he's done it to himself again" and then switches to blamimg me saying staying up so late is the only way he can get any time alone.

He then starts the drama around "helping me move my clothes and things from his house" to my recently acquired flat. Drama around space. Stuff that basically lets me know in a dramatic fashion that he doesnt want me there. Some hurtful stuff. Slight dysregulation. The usual scene.

I didnt engage at all and confidently told him I had lots to do today and would be getting on with it. I said I was waiting til he woke up to say goodbye before I left (truth) He apologised for being grumpy and we left on good terms.

So any ideas? I try to give him the space he wants and he rebukes it. When he does want time alone I am supposed to mind read and if I get it wrong then a blow up occurs.    

[connect]

Hi everyone,

After a little advice here please - not sure how to handle this re-occurring situation in our r/s... .

He needs a fair bit of space. Days and nights "off" - if he doesnt get this space he will throw a wobbly and dysregulate or even dump me. I do give him space when he asks (and try to pre-empt it) but the problem is that he doesn't always tell me and I'm not a mind reader  

Typical example from this weekend.

I left his house on Thurs morning and leave a note for him saying "It's Thursday so enjoy your night to yourself and hopefully catch up tomorrow baby x" (This is as he says he wants Thursdays to himself and I am trying to listen to this) Late Thurs afternoon he texts me and asks me to come round and stay. I do. Lovely fun weekend together staying at his place.

Late Sat night he seems a bit twitchy/withdrawing. I ask him a few times if he is ok and he says that he is fine. I go to bed early and he almost critically asks me why I am not staying up late with him - I say I am tired and I also figured he could do with a few hours to himself - he agrees and thanks me.

He wakes this morning in a foul mood (him staying up late drinking prob didnt help) he starts blaming himself that "he's done it to himself again" and then switches to blamimg me saying staying up so late is the only way he can get any time alone.

He then starts the drama around "helping me move my clothes and things from his house" to my recently acquired flat. Drama around space. Stuff that basically lets me know in a dramatic fashion that he doesnt want me there. Some hurtful stuff. Slight dysregulation. The usual scene.

I didnt engage at all and confidently told him I had lots to do today and would be getting on with it. I said I was waiting til he woke up to say goodbye before I left (truth) He apologised for being grumpy and we left on good terms.

So any ideas? I try to give him the space he wants and he rebukes it. When he does want time alone I am supposed to mind read and if I get it wrong then a blow up occurs.    

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[allibaba]

Hi there connect,

I think that you have done all the right things.  Appreciating that he does actually need time to himself (that's its not just a function of dyregulations), getting your own apartment, validation etc.

I also think that you did just the right thing... .didn't play into the drama/ disconnect ( connect had to disconnect)... .

Now I think that what you may want to focus on is how to stop walking on eggshells regarding this.  How do you remove yourself and disconnect mentally.

You're doing all the right stuff I think... .maybe ask yourself why you still feel so uncomfortable about it?  Is it because you feel rejected?  :)o you believe that there is a way to completely avoid his little drama?  Step back.  Is that realistic?  I'm not asking all these questions because I know the answer... .just curious.

I try to give him the space he wants and he rebukes it. When he does want time alone I am supposed to mind read and if I get it wrong then a blow up occurs.    

you gave a BPD what they asked for and they still got squirrely and may be on the edge of a dyregulation.  I can't imagine such a thing!  Sorry I think that you are in the UK... .so hopefully you can appreciate my sarcasm   No matter how 'perfect' we try to be.  He's a duck and he's still going to QUACK.     

Regardless xo you are doing great!

[connect]

Thanks Allibaba  

Good to hear you think I did ok   - sometimes it feels like I'm not!

You're doing all the right stuff I think... .maybe ask yourself why you still feel so uncomfortable about it?  Is it because you feel rejected?  :)o you believe that there is a way to completely avoid his little drama?  Step back.  Is that realistic?  I'm not asking all these questions because I know the answer... .just curious.

So to answer your questions:

Why you still feel so uncomfortable about it? I think because I don't crave as much space as he does - so in my head there is something wrong. Also I am uncomfortable with the damage to the r/s that this scenario causes, ie the brief period of painting me black that occurs. The relief he must feel in not seeing me when he has got to this stage. The fact that he isnt clear to me about asking for space unless it's in such a melodramatic fashion instead of just an adult "hey honey - I have loads to do today - do you mind if we do our own stuff and catch up this evening?" It highlights just how bad our communication is - I am guilty here as well (Mrs Eggshells) He said this morning he wanted space last night but feels bad/guilty telling me so he didnt say anything until the blow up this morning.

Is it because you feel rejected? Yes - I do feel rejected. The fact that it gets to blow up stage doesnt help as then hurtful things are said by him as well.

Do you believe that there is a way to completely avoid his little drama? Maybe... .maybe not... .I do think that he provokes/needs this drama and if it is not over this issue then he will find something else to dramatise. Like me not wanting to see him now I have my own place back etc so therefore I was just "using" him before (This is a road I think he could go down knowing him as I do and judging by past experiences) ... It could be avoided possibly if I only saw him a few times a week perhaps - but like I said another drama would be sure to take it's place. Also I find it difficult to feel in a r/s with someone who I dont see very much.

Step back.  Is that realistic? This would be VERY hard for me to do. I appreciate that I will probably have to step back a bit. Some of this will be a by product of having my own place now and also starting a full time job soon so this will happen anyway whether I want it or not. I think I KNOW that stepping back would be the wise thing to do - although to me it feels as though our r/s is going backwards by doing this. Moving further away from living together which is not the natural progression to me of a relationship.

I also struggle with my own needs and wants from a r/s. I do want to have a live-in partner. I want this. I LIKE this way of living. I dont want to live alone in my forties. This is what he promised me at one time but took off the table so there is resentment around this stuff for me too - resentment that I havent fully expressed to either him OR myself. So I suppose stepping back feels a little like putting his needs before mine (a familiar feeling to me unfortunately) and not being true to myself.

So this situation does become big my end too as it raises my own resentments - not that I show them  

Thanks for the questions - it clarifies for me perhaps why this issue is not only big for him but that it is also big for me.

Anyhow now I have my own place back I do have a different focus and that has helped me with regards to this stuff - I now have lots of things to focus on that aren't him. And yes that is good for me. I just dont know how to make this issues go away - I suppose by stepping back a bit... .see him a bit less? sigh... .

[allibaba]

Hi Connect,

Just to clarify - by step back.  I mean take a deep breath and try to see the situation for what it is.

I will say that I don't necessarily see you having your own place / job etc as a step backwards.

I think that it may actually bring you two closer together.  A truly healthy relationship is where you two want to be together and chose to be together (not just that you spend time together because you are living in the same spot).

Developing yourself/ your own interests/ your own space can be a wonderful opportunity.  I can understand not wanting to 'go in that direction' but the distance may actually bring you two MUCH MUCH closer.

Like I said.  I think that you are doing great!  NO MATTER WHAT HE SAYS XO

[allibaba]

I also struggle with my own needs and wants from a r/s. I do want to have a live-in partner. I want this. I LIKE this way of living. I dont want to live alone in my forties. This is what he promised me at one time but took off the table so there is resentment around this stuff for me too - resentment that I havent fully expressed to either him OR myself. So I suppose stepping back feels a little like putting his needs before mine (a familiar feeling to me unfortunately) and not being true to myself.

So this situation does become big my end too as it raises my own resentments - not that I show them 

Thanks for the questions - it clarifies for me perhaps why this issue is not only big for him but that it is also big for me.

Also, it is not unreasonable for you to want all of things that you mention above.  It is totally normal and rationale.  The thing is that your BPD may not be able to deliver those things.  And some day, you may decide that this isn't the relationship for you.  I AM NOT SAYING THAT THAT WILL HAPPEN I am only saying that its ok for you to have demands and needs.  Being in a relationship with a BPD... .I think its easy to forget our own needs.  Being in your own apartment will help you to see your own needs and own reality instead of focusing on him all the time.

Alli

[connect]

Alli - you are like a breath of fresh air today    thank you

Ah yes -

Just to clarify - by step back.  I mean take a deep breath and try to see the situation for what it is.

THAT sort of stepping back! Yep - I get it - I will try to do that today. That is bang on right as what I should do. I am going to start some serious cleaning on my place today - looking forward to it 

My bf hasnt even seen my place yet either - that will be interesting - his reaction to seeing me surrounded by my life and posessions and not on his patch 

Right - a mental step back coming up 

[allibaba]

        

When he sees your place for the first time, I want him to see some place that is warm and inviting and healthy and YOU!

[Seashells]

I agree fully with Alli's first post, I think you handled it really well Connect.

I think it's also part of the one step forward and two steps back.  I'm glad you got your flat back now, even if it's just for now.

Also good to recognize where your own needs are in this, and there's nothing wrong with it.  And recognizing the resentment also very good.  I think it will start to destroy your sense of peace if you don't see it and address it.  At least that's how it felt for me. Especially as you heal and become stronger in recognizing your own feelings and needs. 

[connect]

Alli - the place is starting to look cozy and like my own - have bought some lovely girly things that I am quite sure ONLY I will like 

Thanks also Seashells   yes recognsing the resentment in ourselves is healthy - for a long time I was so wrapped up in "what am I doing wrong in this r/s to warrent all this?" that I didnt even have time to think about what I wanted. At least I am starting to get glimmers of it back.

[Seashells]

The relief he must feel in not seeing me when he has got to this stage.

Maybe try to remember this is not about you as a person, nor his feelings for you; this is about him. It's also common in the push/ pull in relation to BPD. We all have different needs for space, it's about what goes on inside of us.

- I am guilty here as well (Mrs Eggshells) He said this morning he wanted space last night but feels bad/guilty telling me so he didnt say anything until the blow up this morning.

Why do you feel you are guilty here?  Could this be his way of rationalizing his blow up behavior?  Maybe I'm wrong, I'm getting the impression of your buying into this being partially your fault? 

Oh and btw... .I still stink at these quotes!  ha!

[Seashells]

Am so happy to read you're getting enjoyment out of settling into the new place and girly things!  Good for you. 

[connect]

Hi ... .well it was bound to happen! My stepping back in a healthy detached way has hit a bump in the road  

So I spent a few hours cleaning my place and making it look nicer - felt pretty good. Then got a text message from someone and found I was fuming steaming ANGRY that it wasnt from my bf (as I assumed it would be for some reason - damn my eternal optimism) The last 40 minutes I have been mad and upset. Would it be so hard for him after unceramoniously expelling me from his house to send a text or communicate in some way? Maybe I am being a bit harsh here as I took control of the situation and we parted on good terms (I think anyway)

At the heart of this lies a new aspect to this usual round of "space" stuff. This is the first time it has happened when I have been effectively living alone i.e. back in my old flat. As I left my ex for my bf (under his promise we would live together) then this is the first time I am really facing up to the fact that... no... .we aren't living together. I am living in my flat alone and starting a full time job (I wanted to stay part time in my existing role) as I need to pay for this place on one income. I knew that the first time this space stuff came out when I was living here would be hard for me and it is.

So I am telling myself the following:

Coming on here and talking to you guys is a good thing and helps

The new job will be much more interesting and I will earn more money

It is good for me to have my own space

This angry feeling I am having now is perfectly normal under the circumstances

I wont feel like this forever

At least I have somewhere of my own to re-group at now

I feel better for posting about it already. Still angry but will use the anger for cleaning and tidying energy.

[allibaba]

Yup.  The angry feeling / resentment is normal and ok.  Appreciate it for what it is (acknowledgment of your feelings, wants and needs)... .

Dont worry... .like seashells said... .a few steps forward... .a few steps back.  Dont be too hard on yourself!  You are still doing great!

I like the fact that you are really taking the time to understand where you are at... .without your own apt you would probably be seriously wrapped up in him and would never get this luxury. 

Alli

[connect]

Thanks Alli 

I am so grateful to have found all you lovely people on these boards - this place is just amazing.

The encouragement on here is so so helpful. In the old days (before I started using the tools) I would argue with him, invalidate, become madly frustrated and the situation would esculate totally out of control often leading to dumping/NC/days of silent treatment. It is so much better now using the advice here. I would never have left his house calmly before, like I did this morning. Now I am better at looking at myself and knowing that I don't want to stick around to hear more of the dysregulations - I am looking to leave as soon as I can when it happens. Not all the time but when it's about "space" especially, I have my shoes on practically as soon as it starts. I am still not great at this stuff as it goes against my natural tendancy to stay and "fix it" but I am getting better and I think it is helping overall. At least things don't get worse and esculate. It's harder when it's about something specific he claims I have done - that one is still very difficult to bounce back from but the rest of the stuff is slight progress.

The encouragement I did ok is gratefully received - we doubt it sometimes dont we?

Dont worry... .like seashells said... .a few steps forward... .a few steps back.  Dont be too hard on yourself!  You are still doing great!

I like the fact that you are really taking the time to understand where you are at... .without your own apt you would probably be seriously wrapped up in him and would never get this luxury. 

So after my last post I did lots more on my flat and it helped me calm down and distracted me. I focused on me. The good news is that he sent me a nice Goodnight text and asked how my flat cleaning went. So that's pretty good his end - he managed to not hang onto his negative feelings.

[Grey Kitty]

Hi Connect; I'm a bit of a latecomer on this thread, but here's my take anyhow:

1. He needs space at times, and isn't able to articulate it clearly or nicely. Yup. And it sucks. And it means more work for you to step out yourself when he starts to lose it.

Upside: As you get better at that, you will have a lot more good times with him.

2. Having your own place: Sorry to hear it isn't what you were wanting in your life right now. Glad to hear you are making it a great place for you.

Do you think you want him to be coming over to see you much at your flat? Or does it feel better/safer for you to keep it more as a personal refuge, and see him at his house instead?

3. That urge to "fix it" when he's upset/dysregulated. Yeah, I remember those urges. I also remember retraining myself to think that it was my wife's job to deal with her own emotions, and that if I meddled in it, I actually made it worse for both of us... .and when I left her to deal with it on her own, results were so much better. And if I backslid on it, I got a 'natural' reminder 

Last but not least:    This is sounding so much better for you!

[connect]

Thanks GK   

1. He needs space at times, and isn't able to articulate it clearly or nicely. Yup. And it sucks. And it means more work for you to step out yourself when he starts to lose it.

Upside: As you get better at that, you will have a lot more good times with him.

This ^^^^^^ really helps as it is so matter of fact and takes some of the emotion out of the situation for me when looked at in these terms like these. Also it is true that if I can crack this whole "space" issue (ie communication around it, applying the space and coping with it without losing my own direction) then the fact that the r/s should improve is something to aim for.

Do you think you want him to be coming over to see you much at your flat? Or does it feel better/safer for you to keep it more as a personal refuge, and see him at his house instead?

I would like him to spend time at my flat. I think it would be good for both of us to be in a different environment. Also I believe he see's me as some floaty person who just exists in his house with no world of my own. This has been caused by the fact I left the flat and my ex to be with him and spent the last 10 months staying with various friends. Therefore my bf's house became the place we are always at. To compound this further my bf has been very resistant to meeting my friends (only met three of them for fifteen minutes each) so again he is not seeing my world at all really. Separate issue, but for my bf to acknowledge that actually I DO have my own world may cause a shift somehow. Him being in my flat is a physical manifestation of my world that he can't hide from. I dont know why the resistance has been there so much his end - I think it has been easier for him to not face up to some of his behaviours towards me if he can pigeon hole me somehow into someone who didnt/doesnt have anything? I suppose him seeing my world means he has to see what I walked away from to be with him and also he may feel embarrassed around my friends as they know some of the things that have happened. IDK. Anyway to get back to the point - him being at mine will I predict make him uncomfortable and possibly he may respect me more somehow. I have told him this. I have felt on the back foot with him as it's been so uneven in some ways. Also him not being willing (my friends) or able (my housing) to be in my world has meant that more pressure has been on him to let me into his world. Hopefully this should even things up a bit. Also I want to be the host for once 

I am going to read some of your old posts GK. I am pleased that you have come so far with your wife and have retrained yourself not to "fix" things with her. Very impressive   

[Seashells]

Connect,   

This really made me feel for you regarding the realization of disappointment of what is vs. what was supposed to be.  I can so relate to it.

I'm not in a place where I can respond well today.  I'm thinking of you though and sending positive thoughts your way.  I'll respond more later.

One thing I wanted to quickly mention as your words reminded me of my own very similar feelings.  It's really helped me at those moments to try practicing mindfulness about my own emotions from the lessons.  Just stopping and naming my feelings and noticing them has helped me detach from them in an easier way and kind of "set them aside" so to speak to gain perspective.   I hope that makes sense.

Have you tried it in these moments of emotional discomfort?   

Hugs, and more hugs... .

 

[Grey Kitty]

I would like him to spend time at my flat. [... .] To compound this further my bf has been very resistant to meeting my friends (only met three of them for fifteen minutes each) so again he is not seeing my world at all really. [... .] Anyway to get back to the point - him being at mine will I predict make him uncomfortable and possibly he may respect me more somehow.

The 'typical' pwBPD's abusive behavior in a r/s includes isolating you from others as a way to gain more control over you. Note: I don't believe that it is a conscious premeditated evil scheme by the pwBPD, just that it happens too consistently with too much 'return' for the pwBPD to be just random luck that it goes that way.

Based on that, I agree that it will make him uncomfortable. He may choose to avoid the uncomfortable feeling and stay away. I also agree that as he grows to become used to the new you, he will have more respect for you. (Don't count on him admitting to the respect anytime soon 'tho) Same as any other time you consistently enforce a boundary.

[Seashells]

Once again, lot's of over laps in our situations. 

Because of my part time status as far as my living situation; I'm always at his place too. 

I think it's going to be bound to shift the dynamics in the r/s, and shake things up a bit.  It may be your own expectations may change regarding reciprocal visitation. 

I hope you feel more grounded regardless of the rest.

[Seashells]

And P.S.  fair warning.

The first time my bf traveled to visit me at the "other" place where I have a home and business, it was very explosive.   (and remember he was/is used to me coming to where he was for months at a time).

A change in their "control" dynamics is usually ... .uhhhm what's the word?  Uncomfortable and disconcerting, so it might be a good idea to fasten your seatbelt dear.    .

(maybe just try to think about steps to sooth yourself in advance, can't hurt right?) 

Not trying to be a downer or negative, but realistically I think it might cause some push and pull behavior.  So, if you can plan for the worst, yet hope for the best? 

Keep yourself and your peace and your "girl cave" attitude handy. Let it hopefully be your sanctuary. 

[connect]

Wow thanks guys    great replies to read this morning! so helpful and confirms the same things I was thinking.

Seashells - thanks for writing -I know you are going through the mill a bit atm, so kind of you to think of me and believe me it's returned! x You mentioned mindfullness for emotions. You must be psychic! Last night I felt some pretty strong anxiety so I did the following excercise (from my cbt therapist) and had a "chat" with my feelings so to speak!

What do you feel? Anxiety

What are the physical sensations in your body? Racing heart, feel hot, stomach churning, damp hands, spaced out.

What does the anxiety want you to do? It wants me to run away, cry, shout and scream at bf, hide.

What are you going to do with these feelings? Move through them calmly.

I couldnt believe how well this works! This was the first time I have done this and by the time I got to the last question I already felt LOADS better. My T says that by doing this we aren't repressing our feeelings and we are listening to what they want from us. We dont have to act on them but we do have to acknowledge they are there and what they want in order to get them to settle down (or otherwise they will just shout louder!) It does distance you from the feelings too.

GK - wise words as ever:

The 'typical' pwBPD's abusive behavior in a r/s includes isolating you from others as a way to gain more control over you. Note: I don't believe that it is a conscious premeditated evil scheme by the pwBPD, just that it happens too consistently with too much 'return' for the pwBPD to be just random luck that it goes that way.

Based on that, I agree that it will make him uncomfortable. He may choose to avoid the uncomfortable feeling and stay away. I also agree that as he grows to become used to the new you, he will have more respect for you. (Don't count on him admitting to the respect anytime soon 'tho) Same as any other time you consistently enforce a boundary.

That is the same vibe I am getting from this. I also agree that his continual refusal to meet my friends has started to feel isolating and abusive in some way. And I agree its not a deliberate masterminded evil plan and may be unconscious. I wonder what the payoff is with this stuff? So that he becomes my whole world? Wierd as he has complained in the past that he feels like my whole world and he doesnt like that... .Do they gain control as your life shrinks down to just them? So you have less healthy people around you that they can be compared to? Did your wife try to isolate you by not meeting your friends?

You both mentioned the new dynamics of me having my own place and the control aspects around that. Yep I am buckled up ready for this one I anticipated it and so far its all gone as I suspected. General resistance/lack of interest in me moving back/a kind of disapproval vibe. Again WIERD as due to him no longer inviting me to live at his place then this is a direct result of that! I also think he could percieve it as a kind of mild abandonment thing- But of his own making imho! Like Alli said earlier "you gave a BPD what they asked for and they still got squirrely and may be on the edge of a dysregulation?  I can't imagine such a thing!  Sorry I think that you are in the UK... .so hopefully you can appreciate my sarcasm "

So last night I bought it up with him. I said that I was excited about sharing my place with him as he is important. I said that I sensed he may be resistant about coming to the flat and could that be true on some level? He said he knows he hasn't been a caring, good bf and that he should have been helping me get settled there. He is going thropugh a strange phase and he apologised. He said he is uncomfortable and nervous and he doesnt know why. We tried to unpick it together and came up with him feeling uncomfortable as he may not be able to be himself, his house is a "safe" place for him, he likes being in his world, he may be expected to do things for me there more (like offer to do the dishes etc) I dont think these were the main issues though - he said he doesnt know why he feels scared about coming to my place. I think its about his loss of "control" and the dynamic change. I didnt say that though! He was really pleased we talked about it and I suggested a half hour visit later today just to look. After that he was quite dominant in the bedroom so to speak - unusually so - control again I wonder.

Seashells - the similarities are coming thick and fast - you know what it's like! Makes me wonder if his "space" outburst on Sunday could have been related to my flat issue.   

[connect]

Forgot to say - when we had the chat last night he went into a bit of a self blame thing "I know I know - I am a bad boyfriend. I should have helped you move. You hate me. I am a bad person. You have told your friends I havent helped you" etc etc

I said "I can see that's how you feel - however I feel differently - I didn't expect you to help me move anything as I didnt have many things. I am talking about visiting"

[connect]

Quick update

Last night he came to visit my new place for an hour (after lots more resistance but I insisted saying it was important to me) He was very uncomfortable and on edge for half an hour and then relaxed (after that he said it was me that was on edge!)

Went pretty well, back to his afterwards and had a relaxing evening. 

[connect]

Just remembered something.

Last night when we were at my place he started talking about some of his behaviours. When I am at his he sometimes plays computer games - I am completely fine with this and I do my own stuff (sewing, reading etc) so it just feels like a domestic evening. Unfortunately occassionally when he does this - it's not "domestic and cozy" its because he is deliberately ignoring me and trying to bore me into giving him some space (it takes me a while to work this out as on the surface it looks the same)

Anyway - he made jokey reference to it by saying that while he is at my house then perhaps I should give him a taste of his own medicine by me playing computer games and ignoring him! Shows an awareness on his part. Some of his uncomfortableness around being at mine I think is that some of his coping behaviours would seem even more inappropriate if he did them on my patch... .mmm... .ie ignoring sometimes and rages.

[123Phoebe]

I've felt/thought similar to what you're describing, connect.  It's a big reason why I love having my own place = space

There are a million things I'd like to do other than sitting there watching him flip through tv channels   Sometimes it's fun, other times not so much.

We've got a nice rhythm going, where we see each other when we're into seeing each other.  It wouldn't be enough for a lot of people, but it works for us.  Quality time.  Doing things we enjoy doing together