Not telling us of their condition the ultimate emotional abuse?

[Undone123]

It's been a while since I've posted, I'm really dysregulated currently... .

My detachment was going grand but a few weeks ago I was unblocked on Facebook.

Since I've been trying to reach out. I sent one message and got an awful one back projecting saying "how unhappy I made her" and something more nasty... .I then sent another recently saying "i don't want to talk about the past, I just want to see you"... .

I do love this girl despite the condition - it's a part of her not all of her. And I take responsibility for my part in the toxic dance... .

But I can't help but think if I had known at the time things would have been different. I definitely would have responded to her acting out differently.

So is their failure to disclose the ultimate emotional abuse? I hadn't worked out it was BPD until one month post relationship. By then it was too late for so many things

[oblivian2013]

I agree. Three and a half years ago my soon to be exBPD wife told me that she had a mental illness. I said I still love you. She went in and out of therapy and said no one could figure out what was wrong with her. It wasn't until the day she left when a family LCSW friend said it sounds a lot like BPD. Now everything makes sense. I am still not sure if even she knows, but when I pointed this out, she said it was PTSD. Does PTSD cause someone to seek revenge?

[patientandclear]

They may not have known it was BPD -- I'm pretty sure my ex has no idea -- but for me, yes, the failure to give me an accurate story of his r/s history was the ultimate form of emotional abuse.  He concealed the situation because he knew it would scare me off. I do think this was conscious.  Once, when I didn't text him back because I'd fallen asleep, he told me the next day that he was afraid I'd learned about his "reputation" and decided to end things.  He also asked me if I were close to a particular mutual friend, a woman.  I said no, not especially.  He never explained why he was asking -- and one time when he brought up her name in a context that surprised me, I said "I didn't know you & A were friends."  He just said "yes, we're friends."

Turns out he'd had a passionate whirlwind romance with her a few years back, and then ended it abruptly, just as with me, just as with so many other women.

So I think he was conscious that I needed not to know about this pattern for him to have a chance with me.  I get that he probably felt, sincerely, that this was going to be different.  It's just that that was an unreasonable assumption given the overwhelming pattern, a pattern he clearly did see.

He also told me that he'd always known I was out there somewhere, and he'd been willing to be by himself till he found me.

Using the BPD decoder ring, I translate that as "I was willing to break up with a lot of other women until I found you."

They are not the same thing.  And yes, the deception was enormously damaging.

[fromheeltoheal]

I do love this girl despite the condition - it's a part of her not all of her. And I take responsibility for my part in the toxic dance... .

BPD is the way the personality developed, how it was wired, at a very young age, subconscious to the sufferer in adult life, and all of their thoughts go through that "filter", so it is all of them, it is a structure for all their thought processes going forward.  That's true for everyone BTW, and what we call ordered and what we call disordered is somewhat subjective.

You just gave me a flashback: my borderline ex told me how many ex husbands and boyfriends she'd had, lots and lots, and pretty much slammed all of them, which I now know was part of the seductive dance; all these evil boys and men hurt her, but hey, at least poor little her was attractive enough to get them to begin with.  And of course the way I'm wired I concluded that after all that experience she was choosing me, finally a beautiful woman is giving me the ultimate validation, and she should know quality when she sees it, she's got plenty of experience.  Silly me.

The real reason she's had so many suitors is most of them left her because they got a dose of what we got.  She goes into relationships thinking she's going to be left, which comes out of that early wiring and is reinforced by experience, and disclosing all the past failures will just cause someone to leave right away, which is the worst thing that can happen, so don't go there.  Keep pushing forward trying to make this one different, with that underlying tension that this person will just leave too, and acting in such a way because of the tension that forces them to leave, fulfilling the prophesy. 

So do I blame her?  Not for her disorder, she doesn't even know she has it, and she's just doing everything she can to keep someone while being convinced they'll leave anyway, which is massively painful every time.  So it's easy to see why she'd go into something new thinking it will be different, and not divulging her dark side because this time, this knight in shining armor is going to save her and there won't be a dark side.  Didn't work, once again.

[Suzn]

Coming from a different perspective, I never shared I have codependent tendencies, that I could participate in enmeshment, or be controlling, or that I had anxiety issues, with romantic partners or anyone else prior to this relationship. Mainly because I didn't realize it, nor did I realize the depth. Questioning our expectations for a non-aware, mentally disordered person may be in order.

[Undone123]

This is true... .i was not aware of my own issues. My BPD ex I am pretty sure was.

[fromheeltoheal]

Coming from a different perspective, I never shared I have codependent tendencies, that I could participate in enmeshment, or be controlling, or that I had anxiety issues, with romantic partners or anyone else prior to this relationship. Mainly because I didn't realize it, nor did I realize the depth. Questioning our expectations for a non-aware, mentally disordered person may be in order.

Yes.  It is natural to put our best foot forward when entering a relationship, and sharing all the deep stuff too early is inappropriate, but as the relationship develops there are some things that could have come up and didn't, both ways.  And as you mention, some things I didn't know, hadn't dug, wasn't aware of, which was really the gift of the relationship.  I hope she got some value from it too, somehow I don't think so, but to claim I'm that much healthier than her is a little pretentious.

[Learning_curve74]

I knew my exgf has BPD: she told me. It didn't change anything except that maybe it made me try even harder to make things work!

It's just my opinion, but I don't see it as "emotional abuse", especially if they are undiagnosed because they can't tell you something they don't know. All the other crappy things qualify as emotional abuse though.

[Undone123]

What if they are diagnosed? I thought my ex was undiagnosed, but a couple of memories have made me think perhaps she was... .

If she was that is a pretty hefty thing to conceal 

[Learning_curve74]

What if they are diagnosed? I thought my ex was undiagnosed, but a couple of memories have made me think perhaps she was... .

If she was that is a pretty hefty thing to conceal 

Hi Undone123, I apologize in advance if it sounds like I'm minimizing your feelings and I don't mean to. I can only imagine how brave one has to be to come out and tell somebody, "I'm mentally ill" when most people will only hear "I'm crazy". And to tell that to a person you're starting to have feelings for or somebody you've fallen in love with? And if you're a person with an intense fear of abandonment, that has to make it even tougher.

I don't want to absolve a BPD individual of all the bad things they've done, but I don't want to demonize them for certain things either.

[Suzn]

how it was wired, at a very young age, subconscious to the sufferer in adult life, and all of their thoughts go through that "filter", so it is all of them, it is a structure for all their thought processes going forward.  That's true for everyone BTW, and what we call ordered and what we call disordered is somewhat subjective.

Exactly. So how would anyone expect that because there is a diagnosis that this would change quickly? Look at how difficult it is to detach on our part. And furthermore how long that can take. This doesn't even touch on the topic of self awareness going forward. And how long that can take.

So do I blame her?  Not for her disorder, she doesn't even know she has it, and she's just doing everything she can to keep someone while being convinced they'll leave anyway, which is massively painful every time.  

Not to mention a complete drain on one's energy. When one is emotionally driven with little or no knowledge of wisemind how unrealistic is it to expect a lifelong pattern of behaviors can be accepted, changed and turned around without some pretty serious focused diligence?

I hope she got some value from it too, somehow I don't think so, but to claim I'm that much healthier than her is a little pretentious.

How about instead of you claiming to be healthier than her, that you claim you are healthier today period? No reason to compare. This is switching your focus to and on you.

What if they are diagnosed? I thought my ex was undiagnosed, but a couple of memories have made me think perhaps she was... .

If she was that is a pretty hefty thing to conceal  

And what of our own boundaries when things weren't adding up in our minds? A pwBPD has to accept that diagnosis just as we have to accept our role in the dance. Acceptance is only the first step before any change can take place.  

[Undone123]

Man there is no way I would have abandoned her if she had told me, I would have learnt.

[Clearmind]

For me now no! Label or not his behaviour and the way he treated me was not the best and not what you would expect from a loving partner.

Hope over on the staying board for a while for a read Undone!

[Undone123]

Wise advice Clearmind!

i'm just angry really. Her unblocking me, and recent contact with expected projection hurts... .I've bloody learnt about this disorder in as non judgemental way as I possibly could, with the relationship being over. I would have learnt about it, had I been told at the time, I know myself and I know this. So I feel robbed of the opportunity really.

[fromheeltoheal]

Man there is no way I would have abandoned her if she had told me, I would have learnt.

Interesting Undone.  There's no way I would have stayed even if I'd known.  Even if I knew why she did what she did, I would still be subject to all the abuse, the condescension, the disrespect, the lack of intimacy, the lack of contentment and happiness.  I went into it thinking if I could love her enough she would let that sweet girl in her out full time and we could build the life of our dreams, but it never happened, in fact it just kept getting worse, and regardless of the label I didn't see it getting better anymore.  At least I had the health to realize that all I was giving wasn't working, and eventually even the most people pleaser among us starts to think where's mine?  What about my needs?  Didn't ever see that happening.

[Dr.Me2]

Do they know deep inside them?  Perhaps not to the extent we now know here about the disorder yet somehow I think she knows all is not normal, before, during and after our r/s. The pattern continues on and on if it is not treated.

I know also that If my uBPDw comes to terms to admit and seek help I will be the first one to be there. Instead she push me and drives me away with DV and thinking that anyway at some point I will leave her once I find out, which is absolutely not true.

By her not admitting and coming to terms that something is not normal inside her and instead making and casting it off with blaming it all on me rage and attacks.

One little step from her to accept help and we can at least move forward in the right direction. Because of the lack of public awareness BPD still has a negative stigma in our society. This makes harder for a pwBPD from being diagnosed.

So, I agree, there is no way I would abandoned her if comes to terms with it and seek help.

It is like the deep seated shame of this disorder is blocking the very path for its cure,

[Clearmind]

It certainly does hurt! I know all too well. I'm a little over 2 years out. Saw him sat night and could not have given a care in the world. I enjoyed my night regardless.

Indifference!

You will get there I promise. All these times of contact really come to you more easily as you begin to work on your self worth and innately understand you deserve better and she was a blip on your radar for a while. Moment in time that you may never forget however you will be indifferent.

Keep posting your emotions and thoughts - healthy to get it all out.

Just wanted to give a little hope that it does get better with some inner work.

[Learning_curve74]

Hi Undone123, I wrote a long reply below but realized the most important thing is probably for you to read this article: Surviving a Break-up with Someone Suffering with Borderline Personality Disorder. Of the ten beliefs that keep you stuck, wouldn't you say that you believe in #1 (belief that this person holds the key to your happiness) and #3 (belief that the relationship problems are caused by some circumstance or by you)?

Hop over on the staying board for a while for a read Undone!

Hey Undone123, I agree with Clearmind's advice. If you think that simply learning the communication tools and learning about BPD means that you will have a calm and loving healthy relationship, that's quite unlikely to be true. It's more likely to be a lot like the tumultuous relationships you can read about on Staying, which once you read them, probably are not that different from the stories you read on the Leaving board except the relationship is ongoing instead of ended or on terminal life support like the ones here.

This is not to say that things couldn't have worked out for you, but believe me, it's not just a matter of you working hard. Just about the only talent I have is to be able to quickly immerse myself into and learn everything about whatever I am interested in then put my head down and work at it until I succeed. I don't have a degree in what I do for my job, but I am really good at it and where I work, we are reknown worldwide for what we do. I've been asked for advice by an individual who has won basically the equivalent of a nobel prize (which blew me away that somebody that distinguished and knowledgeable would ask me for advice). I was never an athlete as a kid, but every sport I've taken up at as an adult I got pretty good at, above average enough that people think I grew up a jock. I was nobody, and I became somebody through the force of my own will. I don't fail, that's not part of my vocabulary! That's why getting into a BPD relationship was so heartbreaking for me; it was a total failure.

I learned the communication tools outlined here and absorbed as much about BPD as I could. Although I originally thought it was for weak people, I recognized that a therapist is a professional knowledgeable in their field, and I understood having a trained professional in my corner is a plus, so I started therapy. I promised my exBPDgf that I would never leave her and fully believed in what I said and worked very hard at the relationship, in fact I worked so hard at it that I consumed my life. And to be honest, I still think about it way too much even now more than three months after I ended it.

In hindsight, I now realize what the problem was. I thought I could change enough for her to change into what I wanted. When I put all my hopes and dreams into her changing, well, that's where I failed. And I didn't fail her, but I failed myself because I was turning into a person that was a betrayal of the person I truly want to be.

There is a term on the Staying board which is "radical acceptance". I believe that this is the key to having a BPD relationship. We have to accept that we can only do our part and keep ourselves healthy because the partner with BPD might NEVER change one single bit; you have to let go of expectations. Could you live with her "as is" the way she acts right now for the rest of your lives together without her changing anything? There is also "radical acceptance" for the Leaving board: that we are not healthy in a relationship with the pwBPD "as is", and because they might never change and we have expectations of them that they cannot fulfill, we must let go and move on for our own sake.

This is not to say that the communication tools don't work, they work to an extent but not because they fundamentally change the other person; they are simply a way for you to help cope in a more effective manner. It's not some kind of "mind control" that you can use on your BPD partner.

If there are some more senior members of the forum that would like to add or point out some errors in what I've written above, I'd love to have their input!

[topknot]

In my case, I feel yes, it was. I was so confused, so hurt by his many actions I could not understand. My daughter was in grad school and living at home at the time. I took her psychology books listing all the disorders and thought, okay, I have to figure this out and what is going on here. He totally knows he has it, but would never admit the term. He told me all the symptoms, the cryptic clues, the hysterical therapist calls, the hiding in his "Batcave" for weeks without a call ~~ and I had to take the 2 + 2 he readily gave me and figure out that makes 4 on my own. I was, and still am, angry. If I chose to stay or to go, if he knows he has a disorder and he knew how much I loved him, it would have been decent to tell me. I have a medical illness that can become debilitating at some point, and I always tell people I date. If they choose to not call again, that's fine, they can't deal with it, but I am always up front and would have appreciated the same, so I could make up my own mind.

[Undone123]

Its radical acceptence that has really worked for me... .

I'm not expecting her to change, I just believe had I known at the time this was BPD I would have radically accepted, and detached my emotions from her behavior. My BPD ex was faithful, not a cheater. That was probably the only thing I could never accept... .I can accept the acting out. She used to say in a rage "it just bounces off you"... .But by the end, I was really confused and hurt, and I started to respond in negative ways... .Knowing of a diagnosis would have meant I was not in such a pool of confusion and hurt

[Wooddragon]

Mine knew he had a "disorder" but initially characterised it as OCD & then later as PTSD. When the raging & devaluation started he pretended not to know what was happening & overtly blamed me for his behavior. However he was always very evasive about the number, duration & endings of previous relationships. It was only by accident during a rage that he revealed that these instances had " happened before". He went through months of therapy pretending to be frightened & mystefied by what was happening. It was only in hindsight that I recalled him telling me that "I have a disorder that means I can't be in a relationship - I just know I'm going to stuff this up". So props to him for trying to warn me but once it took over he tried to blame me & I can't forgive him for that. After 9 months NC, If I saw him in the street I would cross the road to avoid him.