When someone is enthralled with you, is it always unhealthy?

[Tourmaline]

Greetings,

I post this question is for anyone to answer, but I hope to hear from the Board Advisors and Ambassadors.

I am thinking about my children and someday I would like to offer them a bit of advice about love and relationships. After this experience, I would like to tell each of them: "If a person tells you that they are enthralled with you or can't get enough of you, run the other way as fast as you can!" However, I do not know if that advice is truly sound.

I now know that my relationship with my lover was not healthy, but I actually thought it was "a love story for the ages." Go ahead and laugh, but that is exactly what I thought. I thought my lover and I were experiencing something that was so special and rare. At the time, I had never heard of BPD.

Until I got wrapped up in this relationship, I was a firm believer in seeing joy in the smallest, subtle things. I'm not feeling very eloquent, but I'm trying to say that love can be subtle and yet extremely profound. I believed that. Think about the elderly woman who is complaining to her adult child about being lonely after her husband dies. The child says, "but mom, you had 55 years together." Mom says, "It was like a walk around the block."

[Yes, this was an extramarital affair that my husband encouraged. I thought that the affair would end and our friendship would last for the rest of our lives. I never intended to leave my husband.]

Does that intense kind of love that is characteristic of relationships with BPD people exist in healthy relationships? 

Glad it's over and wishing I had run the other way,

Tourmaline

[LA4610]

"I now know that my relationship with my lover was not healthy, but I actually thought it was "a love story for the ages." Go ahead and laugh, but that is exactly what I thought. I thought my lover and I were experiencing something that was so special and rare. At the time, I had never heard of BPD."

I seriously doubt anyone on here will laugh at that. We all probably felt the exact same way. I know I did!

":)oes that intense kind of love that is characteristic of relationships with BPD people exist in healthy relationships?"

I think so. I have had some intense relationships with other people besides my exBPD. One girl in particular that I loved and still care deeply for.

[frag1911]

I wonder... .if my grown daughter had told me that her boyfriend came up to her and said he was enthralled and couldn't get enough of her... .I would have told her that she had a poet telling her how he felt.

Of course, her husband is a poet and wonderful husband and father!

We can't say that every person that talks this way is a pwBPD.  They may express themselves in many ways and some more dramatically than the rest of us.

It's the COMBINED behaviors that tell us there's a problem!

[Learning_curve74]

I'm not sure enthralled is a great word to use based on the etymology... .I fall in love very deeply, but I'll never be a slave to anybody ever again! 

I think it's important to be passionate AND to appreciate the everyday little things. I think it's great to be extremely passionate, to be head over heels in love, but I also believe that there is just as much passion and meaning in simply holding hands or brushing your teeth together. Maybe I'm just a romantic. I know that when I fall in love with a woman, she is the most beautiful woman in the world to me, I am not attracted to any other women. Maybe it sounds crazy, but I simply don't want anybody else, so I just don't find other women attractive when I'm in a relationship. So in my case, to me all the gestures both grand and small are an expression of love.

What frag1911 says about a combined set of behaviors sounds very wise. I don't believe there is a single "red flag" that can necessarily tell you to "run". Yeah if on the first date they're deciding on children's names, then run, but that's a rare and obvious case of crazy. 

I have to admit that I am intense and don't hold back, and I think that is part of what attracted me to my exBPDgf, she was also strong and intense. But she also had a soft vulnerable side too, and truth be told, so do I. I'm starting to feel like I'm making myself sound crazy, it's getting too late and I need sleep, so maybe I'll write more later... .

[musicfan42]

I think that you need to pay attention to their actions not their words. The actual words "I love you" mean nothing. A lot of people just say these words to manipulate you- to get what they want from you- so honestly, I just take them with a pinch of salt. What you need to look out for is things like: are they actually loyal to you, will they defend you to other people... will they take your side and defend you to the hilt. Will they listen to me when I'm upset or will they be selfish and change the subject whenever the conversation becomes too "uncomfortable" for them. And will they support me to be the best that I can be or will they get jealous when I'm successful? So the actual words themselves mean NOTHING... worse than nothing.

[Lady31]

This post is completely confusing and foreign to me.  Maybe I missed something. ?

Major red flag and words of advice would swing toward avoiding and not being involved in extramarital affairs or others who are lax regarding them way before I would caution them about someone "being too in to them".  

I'm also not understanding what the "love story of the ages" consists of?  Riding off in the sunset with a lover and leaving a spouse - or somehow riding off with the spouse after dropping a lover?

Not being mean - being real.  What ranks out as first priority to re-asses in this situation and the fall out of it?

[GlennT]

I would tell my children that if someone you have just met, becomes deeply entralled with you, and you have'nt done anything, to be very suspicious. It is not a remarkable thing to fall in love with, and become entralled with, a friend, or someone you have known for awhile though. Somehow, the BPD's emotional maturity has not fully developed, and cannot be sustained, when they become intimate, although it is what they crave. That is why many of them use the arts, such as drama, music, or writing as an outlet. And they are supernal at it, because they need to have a script, a song, a story, a drama to feel real, if only for a short time   It is very sad indeed, when we discover, that they are feeling the exact same way, or even moreso, for our replacements, and even saying similar, seemingly deeply felt words to our replacement. Nons also replay their favorite song, drama, book, then move on to another one. The difference being, that no one's sirit and heart really gets broken, and other lives are'nt wasted, and ruined for years.  

[heartandwhole]

I think love at first sight happens, but even in those cases, the attention toward the other is enthusiastic, not obsessive.  One of my boyfriends when I was young said "I love you" very, very early on and it startled me. But he was a wonderful man and more or less an emotionally "healthy" one, in my opinion.  That's probably why I ran from him. 

I agree with other posters that it's a combination of things, actions being very important.  Maybe teaching your daughter to trust her gut would be a great addition to these kinds lessons, because then she'll always have an internal barometer for what is good for her.

I think "healthy" passion in a relationship is based on what both people already have and bring to the table.  Unhealthy passion to me is obsessive and comes from a place of lack and fear.

My 2¢ 

[Tourmaline]

Lady 31,

I appreciate your candor, but I think you are being a bit too judgmental in your response.

I did not try to hide the fact that this was an extramarital affair in my introductory post of a few days ago. It's not a choice I'm proud of. However, I do not think my personal circumstances in any way negates the intensity of my feelings or what I experienced in dealing with a pwBPD. I have noticed that other peoples' situations are complicated by other factors.

The heart is not logical. If I would have let my mind lead the way 4 years ago, I would not be posting on this board.

I was hoping this would be a safe environment in which I could express my feelings. If I should not be allowed to post on this board because my experience involved an extramarital affair, I hope the moderators will let me know and encourage me to leave.

Tourmaline

[Findingmysong723]

 Tourmaline,

Your experience is as important as the rest of ours, we all have had different experiences and we might not agree with everything but we should still welcome the exchange. Keep writing!

Also, to add to the thread, I would think that someone being"enthralled or too overly into you," it would might be in how early this all happens. I think if you are in healthy relationship you might have the "honeymoon," but after that you start to grow into a comfortable love, and you become more and more intimate, it would seem very healthy and beautiful that you would be enthralled with each other at that point in the relationship!

[Learning_curve74]

Lady31, I understand where you're coming from, but I think we can also be fair and understanding to Tourmaline. We know that not every marriage is happy, and sometimes people fall in love with others before they've called their marriage quits, but the fact may be that the marriage was failing or failed.

The fact is that in almost every relationship we see here, the nonBPD partner had some sort of want or perceived need that was fulfilled by their BPD partner, otherwise none of us would've found us in this mess to begin with. That is true whether somebody was married or not when they started their relationship.

I think "healthy" passion in a relationship is based on what both people already have and bring to the table.  Unhealthy passion to me is obsessive and comes from a place of lack and fear.

^This is great. When a person looks to another person to make them whole, I think that is where there are going to be problems. If your happiness is entirely dependent on another person, then what happens when that person dies, leaves, or changes? Maybe that's why we often hear members here talking about "power" in terms of their relationship with a BPD ex: they have the power to tear away that piece that we thought was completing us. Whereas a healthy relationship should be about sharing and two people making each other greater, rather than  completing each other. This does go against the romanticized Hollywood version of "true love", you complete me blah blah blah... .

[Lady31]

Lady 31,

I appreciate your candor, but I think you are being a bit too judgmental in your response.

I did not try to hide the fact that this was an extramarital affair in my introductory post of a few days ago. It's not a choice I'm proud of. However, I do not think my personal circumstances in any way negates the intensity of my feelings or what I experienced in dealing with a pwBPD. I have noticed that other peoples' situations are complicated by other factors.

The heart is not logical. If I would have let my mind lead the way 4 years ago, I would not be posting on this board.

I was hoping this would be a safe environment in which I could express my feelings. If I should not be allowed to post on this board because my experience involved an extramarital affair, I hope the moderators will let me know and encourage me to leave.

Tourmaline

Tourmaline,

You are correct.  I should have worded my response more carefully.  I do not think you are hurting any less or deserve any less empathy and help AT ALL.  You are right in that you should feel safe in being frank about your situation and having others support you, including me.

Regarding this specific post - you are asking about learned lessons/what to look out for/what kind of advice to pass down to your kids and not about a specific thing you need support on. 

What I am saying is this:  Out of this deeply painful experience you have had and the lessons learned - when it comes to giving advice to your children, my opinion is that I would focus much more on the effects of an extramarital affair and the damage of the fall out from that over being as concerned about pointing out being weary of someone displaying too much interest in them too quickly.  The BPD relationship in this situation hurts only us.  The extramarital affair can and will hurt us, our spouse and our kids.  You are obviously in hell just like the rest of us were or are from the BPD.  When speaking to them - I would try to touch more on the hell that has the greater potential for pain to trickle down to all those involved - or at the very least both issues.

When we are in that level of extreme pain - and it's BAD sometimes - we seem to focus on and gravitate toward that which is eating us up and not so much on the factors that can eat and swallow others up.  This is normal.  Sometimes the pain is so bad - that's all we can do at the moment.

Either way - my personal opinion is that the deceiving enticement of affairs along with the illusion of riding of in the sunset without being scorched by the sun would be a much bigger danger than the other and would be my focus.  That is my opinion for this PARTICULAR post due to it's nature.

My original post lacked empathy and patience - I'm sorry if I offended you.  I hope you still feel free to post your feelings in your process of healing and I wish you well in your recovery.

[bpdspell]

Tourmaline,

I think the most important thing you can do for your kids when it comes to love is to become it and embody it so their self-esteem can be innoculated. I think it's fundamentally important to model self-love and respect to your kids because kids don't do what you tell them to do; they do what they observe. Telling our kids what to look for isn't as impressionable as what we model to them.

So in other words love isn't about the other person its about yourself and always will be. The only source of consistent love is the love you give yourself.

While enthrallment, passion, attraction, connection, chemistry are important in a relationship they cannot be the basis of our self worth and esteem if they're coming from someone else. The aforementioned feelings are conditional because all relationships evolve, grow and change. This is where most of us made that wrong turn thinking that we found the one when the entire time "we're" the "one" for ourselves.

Passion turns into a slow burn. Things aren't always white hot and sexy once the "newness" wears off. What kids need to know is that the only source of unconditional love that's real is the love that they'll have for themselves.

If I had a daughter I'd model to her self-love then I'd teach her to be observant about the signs of a person who loves and respects themselves. That guy is a keeper. Not the guy who tells her what she wants to hear.  Not the guy who promises her the world but has a reckless history filled with lies and inconsistencies.

When I got involved with my BPD ex idealization and mirroring was the hook but the red flags of how much my ex hated himself revealed themselves early on. But I was colorblind and quite inexperienced with recognizing the signs of people who are shallow and empty. My ex had game and I often confused his arrogance for confidence. His words became my trance and what followed was a trail of broken promises.

Spell