Stumbled (again) and wondering WTH I am doing ..

[damage control]

As I have previously posted, my ex spent 2 nights last weekend with the new woman and it sent me in a bit of a spiral.

Up until then, I had remained friendly with him and still hung out with him a little, spending both of the past two Saturday mornings in his room/bed watching DVD's (we are in the same house, different rooms) but, I was determined to let him know that I was not interested in that because him going off to sleep at another woman's house for 2 nights over the weekend (left Saturday lunchtime after spending the morning with me) was just not on.

I have struggled this week but I was able to basically avoid him or, to just say hello and disappear ... last night (Thursday) I managed not to see him at all.

Today I was feeling much better and in a good mood on my way home from work. When I got in, I went outside for a cigarette immediately when I got in and within moments, he was outside as well. He sat down and asked me how my new job was going and I answered and asked how his job was going etc ... we quickly (again fell into old patterns of talking ... we have never fought and always gotten along well, and there has been no anger or recriminations as such).

We talked for ages and I relaxed into it (again) and then he asked me if I would like to join him for dinner tomorrow night. This was a big moment because tomorrow night is Saturday and I assumed that he would be going to the new woman's house but, apparently not. I hate to admit it, but this made my mood even better and I accepted the dinner invite (not on a date, he is cooking here at home).

He told me that he thinks he is suffering from some kind of depression but when I asked him why he thought that or what was bothering him, he just answered that he didn't care about anything at all anymore... .he was no more specific than that other than to say that he also has zero sex drive, that it had vanished.

We began talking about film/tv as we often do and he asked me to come down to his room and watch some clips he had been watching last night & I agreed (I know ... I'm an idiot, but it is so hard to stay away once we are talking as I crave and miss his company so much).

We laid on the bed - there was no touching of any sort (previously, the last 2 times, he has put his arm over me or something of that nature, but there was no contact at all). We laughed through the clips and talked a bit - all up, about 3 hours in each other's company.

When the clips were over, we were both almost dozing but I opened my eyes and noticed him looking at me and then he buried his head into the pillow. I asked if he was ok and he said 'yes' with a tone that meant 'no'.

He didn't elaborate, just complained about his job for a few minutes and then shut his eyes. I got up and told him that I would let him get to sleep. He didn't argue or ask me to stay or anything, I grabbed my bag, said goodnight ... and came here.

I don't know why I put myself through this. I don't know what, if anything he wants from me. I don't know why I still want him so much and I don't know what I should do next.

I miss his company and am glad of it when I have it, I won't deny that. But, when laying with him, I always want more ... and it is depressing when I have to keep remining myself that there isn't more anymore.

What is wrong with me that I still want, like and need this man? nearly 3 weeks ago he told me that he no longer desires me (or rather, I asked and he said that desire had gone). He was angry with me because I had been drinking the night before but, he has never indicated that things are otherwise or, that he feels otherwise.

I miss my friend as much as my lover ... but I am not sure I can accept one without having the other.

[Calm Waters]

hi, i dont have a loto f time but I can sympathise with your dilemma. In my experience I would say that you need to get in to couples therapy to decide how you both want your relationship to evolve or not and explore the underlying issues. This spiral will continue until one of you gets the resolve to quit I believe and that could be very damaging to both of you

[strikeforce]

Im sorry your going through this  

The only thing anyone can do is get away, far away.

Staying friends with a BPDex is the most unhealthy thing any of us could do next to actually being in a relationship with them.

They purposely go out of their way to hurt you.

No good can ever come from staying friends.

The only solution if you wish for a happy future is to move on completely. I have been there.

[damage control]

Hi CW

Thanks for the response.

We are already 'quit'. we split 2 and a half weeks back because he panicked and was feeling smothered because I had come across from the other side of the country and the pressure of that, together with his concerns about my 'expectations' sent him running - to this new woman.

I have just been to the fridge and he has gone all-out with this dinner for tomorrow night - either he was planning on asking me to join him or, he was planning to cook for her and it fell through (although, I don't think that is the case as there is too much food to take via train which is how he travels) ... .I have no idea what this all means - if anything. He made no attempt to touch or even hug me tonight ... so, I am not taking this as a romantic gesture ... .but I have no idea what to think (unless he is planning on cooking for the whole house and I just happen to be a part of that = although I think he would have told me if that was the case as one of our housemates is a complete bore and I try to avoid eating with him ... .not sure?).

[Learning_curve74]

Hi dc, I'm sorry to hear about your struggles. It seems to be common among people with BPD to keep their exes around as "friends". Being intimate probably triggers his abandonment fears, and therefore keeping you at arms length is a way to not lose you, a coping strategy on his part.

One of the better known books about BPD is titled "I hate you, don't leave me" which perfectly encapsulates that part of BPD mentality. They hate you because they believe that you will abandon them just like everybody else has in their life (and remember for BPD their feelings are facts regardless of the objective truth), but precisely because they fear abandonment they also don't want you to leave. To you and me, their coping strategy makes no sense, but it is probably the way he has been used to feeling and thinking his entire life, therefore it's an ingrained habit that is extremely difficult for him to change.

It's a coping strategy that works for him because his fears are extremely powerful and this helps him cope with it. Unfortunately it's ultimately dysfunctional because it will typically result in the "abandonment" he most fears.

Some people can stay in this type of push-pull relationship with their pwBPD, most people cannot. Regardless of what path you choose, you should always try to look out for your own mental health and take care of yourself.

Examine what you want out of your relationship and what your boundaries are. Are you happy with just being friends? Is there an unspoken desire to return back to what you thought was your relationship with him? These are tough questions to answer especially when clouded by emotions. Hang in there, dc. 

[damage control]

Im sorry your going through this  

The only thing anyone can do is get away, far away.

Staying friends with a BPDex is the most unhealthy thing any of us could do next to actually being in a relationship with them.

They purposely go out of their way to hurt you.

No good can ever come from staying friends.

The only solution if you wish for a happy future is to move on completely. I have been there.

Hi SF

Thank you also for the response.

He hurt me and treated my feelings with such indifference just a couple of weeks ago - my intellect knows and remembers this but my body and my feelings remember the man who I thought I loved ... who I still think I love.

Last night, after posting here, I laid awake wondering if perhaps I was the one with BPD, but didn't know it and I had been demonising him ... I laid there for about an house before I reminded myself that I DO feel empathy for others, very much so. I also would never have done what he did to anybody, not ever (trade me in for another woman on the very day that we split).

The danger of keeping friends with his was readily apparent to me in that moment ...

[damage control]

Hi dc, I'm sorry to hear about your struggles. It seems to be common among people with BPD to keep their exes around as "friends". Being intimate probably triggers his abandonment fears, and therefore keeping you at arms length is a way to not lose you, a coping strategy on his part.

One of the better known books about BPD is titled "I hate you, don't leave me" which perfectly encapsulates that part of BPD mentality. They hate you because they believe that you will abandon them just like everybody else has in their life (and remember for BPD their feelings are facts regardless of the objective truth), but precisely because they fear abandonment they also don't want you to leave. To you and me, their coping strategy makes no sense, but it is probably the way he has been used to feeling and thinking his entire life, therefore it's an ingrained habit that is extremely difficult for him to change.

It's a coping strategy that works for him because his fears are extremely powerful and this helps him cope with it. Unfortunately it's ultimately dysfunctional because it will typically result in the "abandonment" he most fears.

Some people can stay in this type of push-pull relationship with their pwBPD, most people cannot. Regardless of what path you choose, you should always try to look out for your own mental health and take care of yourself.

Examine what you want out of your relationship and what your boundaries are. Are you happy with just being friends? Is there an unspoken desire to return back to what you thought was your relationship with him? These are tough questions to answer especially when clouded by emotions. Hang in there, dc. 

Hi LC.

Thank you also for your thoughts.

I think that keeping friendly with me is a coping strategy - you are right. I think if I am friendly with him then he is able to tell himself that what he did was not so bad and who he is is not so bad because, if he was a bad person, I wouldn't want to be friends with him right? This week, I have avoided him and actually been quite rude insofar as whenever I ran into him, I either got up and left immediately or, one day, I didn't even look at him, I just walked by and just answered his hello with a grunt. I do wonder if my attitude/behaviour affected him for that reason (she doesn't want to talk/spend time with me so, she must hate me/I am a bad person).

I am extremely easy-going - often to a fault (I don't cope with conflict well and I rarely get angry) so, if he perceived me as angry, for a whole week, that would have an affect on his self-opinion. (This is conjecture re if this is how he feels - he WOULD have felt this way during our relationship, but I am unclear if what I think/feel/say has any affect upon him anymore).

I actually suffer from massive abandonment issues myself. When I read about how BPD's push people away in order to test them, I recognise myself. He has quite pronounced and apparent engulfment issues - which is what was the trigger for abandoning me - so although he does have abandonment stuff going on, it is not as debilitating as the fear of engulfment (I realise they are enmeshed, but I think my fear of abandonment overrides his and instead, highlights his engulfment ... .what a pair!).

As for what I want. That's a good question. Over the past (almost) 3 weeks, I have found that hanging out with him has allowed me to still feel a connection with him - has helped quell my anxieties about the loss of the relationship. If I am very honest wtith myself, my desire to recapture what we had is still there.

I catch myself having fantasies that he will 'come back' to me and tell me that this has all been a horrible mistake and that nobody else will make him happy, only me - pathetic I know.

I have actively been pushing these thoughts aside and reminding myself of the pain he caused me and the contempt he showed for my feelings ... that helps, but it doesn't stop the thoughts. But I am trying.

I am amazed at myself for hanging out with him last night. I worked so hard during the week to put distance between us - and it was working ... but I just undid all of that for the pleasure of being in his company. We get along very well, we get along exceptionally well actually and as there has been no fighting, no recriminations, no yelling ... it is easy to fall back into old ways.

I don't know what I want. But, he told me his desire/lust for me was gone and, from what he has told me, once it is gone, it is gone. So, any thoughts in that area are futile anyway if this is the case. I cannot read his intent with this dinner, I don't understand why he has done this - he often went out and bought beautiful food to cook for me, but this is the first time since the split he has done this ... I don't know if it was/is for me or, for all of the house (we all tend to eat separately on most nights) ... and if it is for me ... why?

I can feel hope leaking throughout this post ... yes, I do have hope on an emotional, childish level. I am fighting that child while also trying to soothe her ...

[damage control]

Well folks ... it was a very confusing weekend and I am not sure what to make of it and unclear if I feel better or worse.

After spending a few hours hanging out on Friday night, the ex and I spent most of Saturday together, watching films (we watch them in his bed in his room).

He has always gotten naked except for a t-shirt when we slept together and he did this also on Saturday - he would jump up from the bed and walk around pretty much naked ... and while I have obviously seen him like that many times ... it was weird ... and confusing.

I am sure that he would rationalise it away saying that we are both adults and I have seen him before ...

He cooked dinner as he promised - it was just him and me and then he invited the newest housemate to join us ...

After dinner he and I came outside to have a smoke and he asked me to come back and watch some more films ... and I agreed.

I ended up falling asleep in his bed late Saturday night. During the night he ended up wrapping himself around me but I think this was done more in sleep than consciously.

Saturday morning we talked and watched some more stuff and again, hung out all day until about 4pm when I cooked us some early dinner and we ate together. Then we went our separate ways - he played video games and I went to my room.

This morning, I looked at his email because I wanted to know if he was still in contact with the new woman (and why he didn't go there this weekend like the last 2) ... he had written her a brief email on Saturday saying that he had slept all day, and asked her how she was going ... and signed (like he used to sign to me) with some kisses so, he is definitely still in contact with her.

Last night (Sunday), he told me about a woman he is talking to online who had a terrible childhood and who is under the thumb of her parents who live a few hours away - this woman goes to visit her parents regularly on weekends so, I wondered if this is why he wasn't seeing this woman this past weekend.

After telling me that he has absolutely no sex drive and is currently depressed, I guess I am unsurprised about him not seeing her. He made no sexual overtures to me, however, he did talk about some sexual topics (nothing unusual) and when I looked at his browser history, he is still looking at dating/sex sites online - this is an addiction for him ... he does not seem able to stop this.

I am feeling better for having spent time with him - it was hard not to love the feeling of him being wrapped around me in bed ... but, I also feel that I have allowed myself to be sucked back in to where he feels comfortable again because I am not ignoring him ...

I'm a mess and don't know what to make of any of this ... if anything.

[damage control]

PS:

I realise that I am clinging to a hope that he will want me again - but I am trying very hard to stop this - hence the checking of the email.

He seems so normal most of the time, it is only his actions from 3 weeks ago (today) of turning away from me so ruthlessly and immediately dating the new woman that remind me  - that and his internet addiction/s, need to validate through women online ... I have seen the emails that he was writing to 2 woman while I was asleep in his bed, in fact, while I was still interstate, and found that he had been seeing a woman (back in early Oct) ... there is a copy of the desperate email that he sent me begging to be able to fix what he had done and telling me that he would never turn away from me again - the day before that, he had sent an erotic email to yet another woman ... I know that not only could he never be trusted, but that even if he did change, it would be temporary.

That is not even taking into account that he doesn't want me anyway ... so, why am I doing all of this to myself? I don't want a friendship with him but, I don't want to give him up.

[damage control]

When I got home from work today, the ex came out a few minutes later. We talked about work for a while but then I finally summoned the courage to ask him a question.

I said point blank:":)id you ever care about me?"

He answered that he did and still does - but not in the same way anymore (ouch!). I needed to hear that.

I asked him to try and explain what happened and he went into this diatribe about his panic/anxiety attacks (which are very severe and occur regularly) ... he explained it that when the panic/fear kicks in (ie: when I triggered him), it is like all emotions are just burnt away; they no longer exist. I replied that he had moved on to somebody else almost immediately so, I had a hard time understanding/believing that his emotions in general were burnt away - this was about me.

He avoided (he is a master of going off-topic) and told me that he has made an appointment with his GP next week because he has lost all desire for sex and is currently impotent. I don't know what to think of that ... he and I never had any real issues in that area although I know he had problems with the ex ... I know he is still in contact with the new woman - I cannot help but wonder if the fact that she is a psych means that he is interested in her - he knows he is fu*ked up. They must have a very different relationship than he and I had because ours was extremely sexual and very, very intense. He only sent her one, very brief email over the weekend saying that he had been sleeping all weekend (yes, he and I slept a lot, togetherm in his bed, with him naked ... that part he left out). He hasn't replaced 'me' at all ... he has gone for a completely different dynamic.

He has bought me more food and gave me warm socks etc for the unexpected weather we are having ... he walks and talks like the man I was in love with but ... .he no longer desires me sexually ... he just switched it off.

I told him that I slept with someone last week - he doesn't feel sexual jealousy anyway, and I didn't do it for any reason other than to assure him that I am working at getting past him. We had a bit of a laugh about how bad it was and he was fine with it ... .I didn't tell him that it happened here in the house however.

I don't see how staying near him can be healthy for me. I still desire him very much, in fact, I would rather give away the friendship and keep the sex to be honest ... .what the hell does that say about me?

He keeps telling me how he is depressed, has no goals and fears that he will die every single day - he is now apparently impotent and in a depressed state ... I want to scream at him that throwing away him and me ... maybe that has contributed to his state? His impotence? But perhaps I flatter myself because he has told me twice quite clearly that he doesn't have any desire left for me ... it's just hard to accept given the past 12 months.

Just rambling now ... .so confused about everything and what I should do in terms of housing etc ... .I honestly, for the first time ever, wish I had never, ever met him. This betrayal, this massive blow to my ego, these things will not be easily healed.

[Learning_curve74]

Hi dc, I'm sorry to read your posts and see that you feel confused... .is that the right word to use? Why does everything have to be so complicated sometimes? I really hate it myself... .anyhow, a hug for you: 

You said that you have some abandoment issues yourself. Many people can develop it due to erosion of self-esteem that pwBPD push-pull behavior can cause. Do you feel this is the case or did you have these feelings before?

As far as you saying you'd rather give up the friendship and keep the sex, it's okay to feel that way, and whether that's what you choose is up to you. But I would also say that you need to be true to your own values, I wouldn't betray them for a momentary want. Not saying that's your case, but just in general that is a good way to decide what actions we take in life, you know? At the same time, we are also always growing and there's nothing wrong with examining yourself and deciding you want something different. Whatever you decide needs to be true to yourself, in my opinion.

It can be hard to accept the things he is telling you, and maybe you can't trust him which would be totally understandable!

Some others here would tell you to run. And maybe that could be your best option, I can't say for you. I will say that the longer you stick around, the harder it will for you to upset the status quo. People tend to see what they want to see and stick to the devil they do know over the devil they don't. Once you get comfortable in what seems to be this limbo state, friends without benefits?, it will be much harder to get out of it.

Do you have any better feeling what you might want betwen the two of you?  If you met another man who was appealing and exciting to you, would you spend as much time with him as you are now or do you feel like you'd reduce or cut out time with your "ex"?

[damage control]

Hi LC, yes, confused is definitely the right term to use.

y abandonment issues started long, long before the ex: I have had them since I was a child and my life had been one abandonment after another - a very long life story but, it has manifested now in me shutting down/out anyone from getting too close ... I managed that way for over 7 years, until I met the ex ... he systematically broke down my defenses with time, attention and proclamations ... I believed him and et him in (although, looking back through old emails today, I was constantly on the defensive about his 'feelings' - to which he would reassure me).

I think telling me to run would be the best advice for me. I don't see how I can be near somebody whose emotional self is so focused upon its own pathologies to the exclusion of almost all else. Listening to him describe his fears/anxieties and his attacks last night made me realise that there simply isn't any room for anyone else in his head ... his whole existence is about his thoughts, fears etc ...

So, I wrote an email to him late last night. I called it 'goodbye'. It was very brief, it said that my lust for him was also now gone. That I was exiting with some confusion, some sadness and some memories that were now tainted. I ended by saying that all he and I are left with is the echoing of polite conversation and, so be it.

He has not responded and I don't expect him to respond ... .there is nothing to respond to.

If I could meet another man who was exciting and appealing to me I would be over the moon ... .I fear that because I didn't meet anyone in that 7 years untilthe ex that I will be forever alone. It's a real fear. I AM alone ...

If there was a button that I could push that would just evaporate me like I was never here, I would just push it. In fact, I would have pushed it 30 years ago. I don't see the point of life without love and sex and it seems that I am wired to either reject it, or to pick the people who are the least likely to be able to give it to me.

My ego has taken a huge beating being told that someone who professed to being so attracted to me that he couldn't stand it could just turn on a dime and feel no attraction at all. It makes me feel sick and shamed every time I think about it. And it terrifies me that another person could do exactly the same.