Struggling with the NC thing...

[Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits.]

So, the first 6 months of my story are posted in this thread: https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=206876.msg12298581#msg12298581

Now, the rest of the story along with my questions.  Any advice/insight from recovering women with BPD would be especially helpful.  Okay, so I went onto facebook at the end of August, and my worst fears were realized.  She had posted a picture of her and her new BF on her profile page.  I was very sad, but at least it now made sense that she had not contacted me for weeks.  I was surprised that he did not look her type at all.  Looks are not everything, but he was just not her type at all in any way.  Oh well.  I finally decided to call her on September 10th, and left a voice mail.  She texted me back right away, and told me she would call me that night.  So, we had a very nice two hour conversation.  She told me that the new relationship was not serious, and that she missed me.  She said she did not contact me during this time because she did not know how I would react to her seeing someone new.  We spoke again a week later, and had another very nice conversation.  We made plans to get together in Iowa (she had a horrible track record of cancelling on me with a week or two of me coming pretty consistently), and she told me she had no issue with me coming to see her and welcomed it.  She told me distance was the main reason she stopped seeing me, as I was 5.5 hours away from her and this new guy was only an hour away.  While it makes sense, I believe it was only half the real reason.  She told me she absolutely wants me in her life, that she is still very attracted to me, and that she loves and adores me with all her heart.  The most poignant thing she said was that she considers me the closest person in her life.  

Well, over the next two weeks leading up to the trip, she texted me everyday (kind of like old times), was conversing with me about every other day, and not giving any indication that anything was amiss.  I even called her a week before the trip and asked her if I should scale the trip back from three days to two.  I did NOT want her to feel engulfed in any way.  She told me she had no issue at all with me staying all three days, and encouraged me to do so.  She had a cast on her elbow, and I was looking forward to showing some chivalry towards her, and helping her out around the apartment.  It was her birthday that week, and I sent her a few movies as a birthday present, and she told me she would not watch them until I was there with her.  Three days before the trip, I was a bit down for some reason.  She cheered me up by saying that "my trip was was just around the corner, so cheer up!"  She then sent me the sweetest e-card that told me that she was "thinking of me, have a great night.  The count down is on until you visit!"  She then texted right after that she hopes we stay friends for a very, very long time.  The next night, she texted me that "I have my sheets in the drier so that when you come visit you will have fresh ones to sleep on."  I dont know why she brought that up, but I replied that it was cool.  She asked if that was not ok, and I replied that it was A-OK with me.  Then the next morning, the fateful text came.  Sigh... .she texted that "she has been doing a lot of thinking and has come to a difficult decision that it be best that the trip be off."  She said that "she wanted to be fair to her current BF and not jeopardize things with him.  And if this means we no longer have a friendship, I understand."  That was not a slap in my face.  It was a sledgehammer to my gut.  If I would have thought about it any longer, I would have not responded.  I would have liked her to wonder if I received it and possibly called me to talk about it.  Unfortunately, my emotional side got the better of me, and I immediately responded asking what was going on, and I am so confused, and that I needed to speak with her that night.  She never responded.  That was on October 1st, and it has now been over six weeks.  There has been no contact on either end.  

I regret that I even asked her to get together.  We would probably still be speaking.  It is strange.  Even though I miss seeing her greatly (it has been since June that I have seen her in person), I actually just miss talking and conversing with her.  We always had a great connection, and enjoyed chatting with one another.  I dont know what happened.  I really dont.  All I do know is that this is common behavior of those with BPD.  I was so angry and hurt at her contradictory text message.  There were so  many mixed signals in that text she sent.  On top of all that it was sent the day before my trip and she could have communicated to me at any point during the two weeks that she had concerns.  I had already given up a shift at work, reserved a car rental, and it was such a colossal disappointment.  And the thing is, I was planning on coming as her friend.  I was NOT going to rock the boat.  I was just looking forward to hanging with her.  Now, I think of her everyday still and dont know when we will speak again.  I need to be strong, as this was so disrespectful, and to cower and contact her right now would probably show weakness.  The problem is the holidays are coming up, and I would be devastated if we went the holiday season without speaking.  She even told me she had a wonderful Christmas gift idea for me that I was going to love.  I have had tears in my eyes almost everyday, and do miss her.  Not reaching out to her again is out of the question.  My question for all of you is when do you think she will contact me?  All my friends who have been educated on BPD thinks she will contact me around Christmas or just after when she begins getting lonely.  If she does not though, I am going to try and get in touch with her.  Truth be told, I miss her friendship as much as anything else.  We actually have great chemistry as friends, and I miss her (but so damn frustrated, angry, and hurt at her behavior).  Should I call?  Send  a text?  I actually thought of writing a letter.  I have never sent her a letter, and I am good at writing down my thoughts.  When should I reach out?  

All of your responses are invaluable to me, and I appreciate them.  So, what do all of you think about all of this?  Your thoughts?  Thank you again.

[rodman8]

So, the first 6 months of my story are posted in this thread: https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=206876.msg12298581#msg12298581

Now, the rest of the story along with my questions.  Any advice/insight from recovering women with BPD would be especially helpful.  Okay, so I went onto facebook at the end of August, and my worst fears were realized.  She had posted a picture of her and her new BF on her profile page.  I was very sad, but at least it now made sense that she had not contacted me for weeks.  I was surprised that he did not look her type at all.  Looks are not everything, but he was just not her type at all in any way.  Oh well.  I finally decided to call her on September 10th, and left a voice mail.  She texted me back right away, and told me she would call me that night.  So, we had a very nice two hour conversation.  She told me that the new relationship was not serious, and that she missed me.  She said she did not contact me during this time because she did not know how I would react to her seeing someone new.  We spoke again a week later, and had another very nice conversation.  We made plans to get together in Iowa (she had a horrible track record of cancelling on me with a week or two of me coming pretty consistently), and she told me she had no issue with me coming to see her and welcomed it.  She told me distance was the main reason she stopped seeing me, as I was 5.5 hours away from her and this new guy was only an hour away.  While it makes sense, I believe it was only half the real reason.  She told me she absolutely wants me in her life, that she is still very attracted to me, and that she loves and adores me with all her heart.  The most poignant thing she said was that she considers me the closest person in her life.  

Well, over the next two weeks leading up to the trip, she texted me everyday (kind of like old times), was conversing with me about every other day, and not giving any indication that anything was amiss.  I even called her a week before the trip and asked her if I should scale the trip back from three days to two.  I did NOT want her to feel engulfed in any way.  She told me she had no issue at all with me staying all three days, and encouraged me to do so.  She had a cast on her elbow, and I was looking forward to showing some chivalry towards her, and helping her out around the apartment.  It was her birthday that week, and I sent her a few movies as a birthday present, and she told me she would not watch them until I was there with her.  Three days before the trip, I was a bit down for some reason.  She cheered me up by saying that "my trip was was just around the corner, so cheer up!"  She then sent me the sweetest e-card that told me that she was "thinking of me, have a great night.  The count down is on until you visit!"  She then texted right after that she hopes we stay friends for a very, very long time.  The next night, she texted me that "I have my sheets in the drier so that when you come visit you will have fresh ones to sleep on."  I dont know why she brought that up, but I replied that it was cool.  She asked if that was not ok, and I replied that it was A-OK with me.  Then the next morning, the fateful text came.  Sigh... .she texted that "she has been doing a lot of thinking and has come to a difficult decision that it be best that the trip be off."  She said that "she wanted to be fair to her current BF and not jeopardize things with him.  And if this means we no longer have a friendship, I understand."  That was not a slap in my face.  It was a sledgehammer to my gut.  If I would have thought about it any longer, I would have not responded.  I would have liked her to wonder if I received it and possibly called me to talk about it.  Unfortunately, my emotional side got the better of me, and I immediately responded asking what was going on, and I am so confused, and that I needed to speak with her that night.  She never responded.  That was on October 1st, and it has now been over six weeks.  There has been no contact on either end.  

I regret that I even asked her to get together.  We would probably still be speaking.  It is strange.  Even though I miss seeing her greatly (it has been since June that I have seen her in person), I actually just miss talking and conversing with her.  We always had a great connection, and enjoyed chatting with one another.  I dont know what happened.  I really dont.  All I do know is that this is common behavior of those with BPD.  I was so angry and hurt at her contradictory text message.  There were so  many mixed signals in that text she sent.  On top of all that it was sent the day before my trip and she could have communicated to me at any point during the two weeks that she had concerns.  I had already given up a shift at work, reserved a car rental, and it was such a colossal disappointment.  And the thing is, I was planning on coming as her friend.  I was NOT going to rock the boat.  I was just looking forward to hanging with her.  Now, I think of her everyday still and dont know when we will speak again.  I need to be strong, as this was so disrespectful, and to cower and contact her right now would probably show weakness.  The problem is the holidays are coming up, and I would be devastated if we went the holiday season without speaking.  She even told me she had a wonderful Christmas gift idea for me that I was going to love.  I have had tears in my eyes almost everyday, and do miss her.  Not reaching out to her again is out of the question.  My question for all of you is when do you think she will contact me?  All my friends who have been educated on BPD thinks she will contact me around Christmas or just after when she begins getting lonely.  If she does not though, I am going to try and get in touch with her.  Truth be told, I miss her friendship as much as anything else.  We actually have great chemistry as friends, and I miss her (but so damn frustrated, angry, and hurt at her behavior).  Should I call?  Send  a text?  I actually thought of writing a letter.  I have never sent her a letter, and I am good at writing down my thoughts.  When should I reach out?  

All of your responses are invaluable to me, and I appreciate them.  So, what do all of you think about all of this?  Your thoughts?  Thank you again.

[Surnia]

Rodman8

I am very sorry about what happened to you! 

What you went through is soo very textbook!

I would really recommend to think at least 3 times before making contact again.

As you said it yourself, she would reach out for you when she is lonely. The friendship thing is most of the time not working. Many members tried it.

We recommend to write letters to yourself more than to the person with BPD. What do you think about it?

[Lady31]

I'm sorry this played out this way.  It just shows you the reality of who she is and her patterns and that, in fact, nothing has changed in that arena.

Regarding being friends - I think the main question to ask yourself is if this is fair or healthy for YOU.  Truly.  Are you secretly wishing things would be different/more between the two of you?  It sounds like that may be the case and if so, then that doesn't sound healthy.

Also, if she is moving on and she feels this would not be fair to her new BF, then that is reasonable and the right thing to do on her end.  If having a "friendship" with you while being involved with another man that she is interested in pursuing a romantic relationship is inappropriate, then it's inappropriate.  If you are truly her friend you will respect that, her wishes, yourself and the man she is seeing.

[lemiwinks]

I'm sorry this played out this way.  It just shows you the reality of who she is and her patterns and that, in fact, nothing has changed in that arena.

Regarding being friends - I think the main question to ask yourself is if this is fair or healthy for YOU.  Truly.  Are you secretly wishing things would be different/more between the two of you?  It sounds like that may be the case and if so, then that doesn't sound healthy.

Also, if she is moving on and she feels this would not be fair to her new BF, then that is reasonable and the right thing to do on her end.  If having a "friendship" with you while being involved with another man that she is interested in pursuing a romantic relationship is inappropriate, then it's inappropriate.  If you are truly her friend you will respect that, her wishes, yourself and the man she is seeing.

This story is horrible to read. And I understand your pain and frustration man. If you still love her then a friendship will never work. Sorry. I recently went no contact with my ex and it is the only way man. It's soo hard and difficult to come to terms with. It's horrible in fact... the hardest thing I've ever had to do in my whole life but IT IS THE ONLY WAY. Trust me.

[Octoberfest]

So sorry to hear about this rodman... .Reading your post brought me back to any of a dozen instances where I too felt that sledgehammer because of my BPDex's actions or words.

I will offer you a kind suggestion- look more closely at your BPDex's actions, not her words.  For they are what define her and her character.

I wish you strength and hope that you find peace

[fromheeltoheal]

I could have written your post rodman; ours was Denver.  I'm sorry, I know it hurts.

It's easy to feel jerked around, because that's what's happening, but she doesn't see it that way.  Two things jump out about texting: a borderline has the push/pull dynamic going on and lacks object constancy.  Mine loved to text, in fact we got along best by texting, because it kept me close but not too close, and she could go about her day carrying around her little soothe machine.  And lacking object constancy, it was the phone that was soothing her, not me.  It was only when the reality hit that we were going to meet in person that she got triggered, for different reasons at different times in the relationship, but it was clear that the phone and me in person were two different things to her, unlike they are to us.  Plus she could maintain multiple relationships easily that way.  And, a lot gets lost in a text, you don't see the person obviously and you don't hear the tone of voice, so you're only getting a small part of the whole message.  It's impossible to have a real relationship when that is the primary mode of communication.  We had an LDR too, they're difficult for everyone, and for a borderline it's a complete disconnect.

Anyway, got off on that, maybe it was a little useful.

Seems to me you want more than a friendship with this gal and her seeing someone else will be a problem.  And you're hurting and you miss her and you'll take what you can get.  Believe me, trying to grasp at the pieces of a friendship while she's seeing someone else will hurt more; you're much better off detaching and healing.  I know, not what you want to hear.  A borderline lacks the ability to empathise, and what that means in English is she will jerk you around while using you to make herself feel better, without connecting with the fact she's jerking you around.  It will sound on the phone like ypu're close and connecting, and maybe you are, but mine had an uncanny nack of sounding how she needed to sound to elicit certain things from me that made her feel better.  Took me a while to figure that out, but we had 9 hour phone conversations.

So waiting for her to contact you is prolonging your pain, and you can't let go as long as you do that.  If I was you I'd decide a relationship on any level with her is over, because any continuation will only hurt more.  Not what you want to hear I realize.  It's best to not contact her, don't let her contact you, and start to focus on a future without her.  That will hurt less.  Sorry to be blunt but you deserve the truth.  Take care of you.

[rodman8]

I understand and appreciate the responses.  To LADY 31, please realize that she told me that the relationship was not serious.  Also, when we were a couple, she consistently hung out with her ex.  She never lied to me about it, as they had remained friends after the break up.  However, she went to Florida with him in June without telling me (she told me she was going to Florida, but not with him).  When I found out, she of course told me nothing happened; that they just went as friends.  Understand that while they were hanging out together, she was cancelling plans to see me.  Obviously, I was a rebound relationship for her, even though she told me I was "the love of her life," "she would be my woman for as long as I would have her," she even told a mutual friend of mine on facebook that "I have found the one!"  (meaning me).  I found out later that she was seeing her ex boyfriend right up until the time she was seeing me.  It was obvious that I was a rebound relationship, and when the distance started getting to be too much, reality sunk in and she went back to what was easier to maintain.  However, she failed to inform me of this, and strung me around for another six weeks. 

So while she may, in fact, want to be fair to her current BF, she certainly was never fair to me.  I was outright disrespected, and it hurts so bad.  We really did have a great connection, and just because I am long distance does not mean I am not a human being.  Also, I told her that if she needed me to move for her to be together, that it was something I would consider.  Keep in mind, she could have told me at any point within the two weeks I was coming that the trip was giving her anxiety, but she assured me that it was fine.  So, why does her current BF deserve respect, and me deserve none I ask?  I am sorry, but I am just so hurt.  I have been through so much more from her than the current guy, and feel in a strange way that I a have earned the right to be given a second chance I guess.  I dont know.  I dont know anything about the guy at all, and dont know what she is getting from him.  I just do not understand how her same BPD behavior would not be shown to this guy, but when I enter the picture, I get all the craziness and hurt feelings.  I suppose I am just thinking out loud. 

Again, I respect everyone's opinion, and you are probably correct in your advice.  However, no contact permanently is not an option for me as of right now (it may eventually be).  So again, my question is when do you think she will reach out?  If she does, how should I respond?  Should I tell her that what she did to me was wrong and disrespectful?  If she does not contact me, I am probably going to write a letter, but not sure how long I should wait to write it.  If I wait too long, the memory of what went down will be over anyway, so not sure when it would be best to do so.  In her mind she was doing the right thing, but it was the way in which she handled it.  And obviously, these same rules did not apply to me when we were dating.  I want to know and understand why I have been disrespected but this man is not being disrespected.  I am a human being too.  It makes me feel completely undervalued.  Sorry, as I stated, I am really just thinking out loud. 

[fromheeltoheal]

My experience is if she has emotions that are too strong and she can't soothe them, about anything, you may show up on her radar as a possible soothe source.  If she does contact you it will be because she wants you to make her feel better, all about her.  Not because she's mean and cold mind you, but the chaos created by her disorder is a full time job to deal with, it has to be all about her.

If you do contact her get very clear on why you're doing it and what your expectations are.  Don't expect closure or an apology from a borderline, and at the end of a relationship rational thought goes out the window.  My experience, echoed many times here, is that further contact at this point will just create more pain.  You read it here.

Good luck, take care of you, and stay here.

[rodman8]

I think it also worth mentioning that it was not as if our entire relationship was a cyber one.  She traveled three times, 330 miles away from me to visit and be with me.  So, we did have close physical contact, cuddles, kissed, made love, shared things with one another, etc.  Just wanted to point that out. 

[fromheeltoheal]

I think it also worth mentioning that it was not as if our entire relationship was a cyber one.  She traveled three times, 330 miles away from me to visit and be with me.  So, we did have close physical contact, cuddles, kissed, made love, shared things with one another, etc.  Just wanted to point that out. 

Yeah, mine too; the idolization phase is intoxicating isn't it?  When the borderline is in the vulnerable seducer stage, when the attachment gets formed, it is like no other, seemed to me like the gal I'd been waiting for my entire life, how she hung on every word, was very interested in most everything I was, openly available sexually, it was a dream come true.  And then it turns out the dream was an unsustainable fantasy, what a letdown!  And the lack of closure and her entering hater mode just made it hurt that much more.  And then the wake up call.  What the hell was I doing?  Why did I get so deep?  Why did I choose to ignore my gut feel and push forward with a fantasy hoping it would become real?  Pondering those questions and digging deep for answers has resulted in significant growth, the ultimate gift of the relationship.

[rodman8]

Moving on from this has been the hard part for me.  The truth is that this woman was the most gorgeous woman I ever dated, and that is saying something.  She was just my type.  If you drew a pic of my perfect woman she would look something like my girl did.  I mean, she was my age too.  The fact that we were from the same home town and went on a date twenty years ago, and then reconnected was way cool.  Way cool.  Also, she was a great kisser, she smelled great, her skin felt so good to touch, she had a terrific body... .darn it all. She was such a charmer as well.  I wonder how long until this current relationship starts to go sour... .just an out loud thought.  My guess is that she will put more value in it, because it is a more realistic option for her.  I think that is one of the issues I am dealing with so harshly.  Why was I let go so quickly?  Was it just the distance?  Or was the distance the catalyst, and then when games started to be played, my reactions, and questions, and "pushing" turned her off.  I shared a great deal of intimacy with her.  Maybe had I taken it in stride she would have still continued to see me here and there.  Who knows.  The lack of even a semblance of closure sure is difficult.

[Lady31]

Oh rodman - I'm so sorry about the hurt you are feeling.  OF COURSE you deserve to be respected.  You deserve to be treated with value. 

I read your responses.  I do not think this other guy "deserves more respect than you".  I am saying that you BOTH deserve to be treated with kindness and respect.  SHE is incapable of that.  I am merely stating that just because she treated you a certain way, does not mean that you have to start behaving in ways that are inappropriate.  That is all I am saying.  You are better than that.  I realize your hurt and longing for this woman is what is driving you.  However, is it really right for you to be going to stay with her while she has a boyfriend?  I realize that she TOLD you it wasn't serious - but that was obviously a LIE - at least on some degree because of what she told you after the fact.

It is absolutely wrong how she handled it.  She is lying to you and using you and stringing you along still. (AND him - and will do the same thing to the next one AFTER him.) 

What she did with her ex while with you was completely unacceptable.  She does not respect boundaries at all.  She does not respect you or your feelings.  She does whatever she wants to do when she wants to do it and doesn't respect your needs.

I can't give you advice on contacting her as it is obvious (looking back at the few character traits you have mentioned - I am sure there are others that aren't mentioned in your posts) she is not a healthy person, treats you like crap, has no regard for you and yet you still want her.  It is clear as day that this will be a harmful relationship and will never be what you want it to be, so I am not going to advise you to do something toxic for yourself.

However, we have all been there.  I had to go for dose after dose of abuse and lies from my husband before I was ready to accept the truth.  You haven't reached your threshold yet.  So, if you are going to keep going back for something that is poison and toxic, I can't stop you or change your mind.  The advice I would give in this situation is to be focusing on getting into therapy to help deal with this as you go through it since that is your choice.  The final scorching burn and crash to your heart and soul is inevitable with the choices you are making - at least having a T will help you to start seeing things in a clear light and help you not go off the deep end when things do crash again.

Your comments sound like you think you could have done more.  I did that too.  You think she is so attractive and she "fits" with you.  I was hooked on my h because of that too.  If this person treated your friend this way, you would see her much more clearly and see who she REALLY is from her behavior instead of still thinking she is this great catch and worthy of all this self torture and ABUSE to YOU.

We are pulling for you here!  You deserve love and someone who treats you with love and respect!  You are worth it!  You are worth MUCH MORE that what she is giving you and how she has treated you.  She is the incapable.  It's not your fault because you didn't move there.  It's not your fault because you stood up to her and confronted her behavior that pushed her away - otherwise you would have had to swallow whatever she did.  Do YOU believe you have value?  If you believe you have value then you believe your needs matter too and when a person does something disrespectful, rude or abusive then you believe you should stand up and protect yourself.  If you think you should have pushed it under the rug and not confronted her so she would still be around, then that is NOT good for you.  And it tells HER you don't value yourself so why should she?

This will eventually work itself out one way or another.