My soul is in pure agony... Need examples...

[VIDEO: "What is parental alienation?"]

Oh man this hurts.  I'm so tired of waking up in the early morning hours and smoking cigarettes obsessively thinking about her... .

She's a 43 year old BPD with strong HPD characteristics.  There is no self harm to speak of apart from smoking and drinking.  She never threatened to commit suicide or anything like that.  Apart from lying to me after we broke up I'm fairly certain she never cheated on me... .at least physically. 

A little background on her... .she's very beautiful.  Was in playboy and is an ex stripper... .and in my research I found an article stating that 55% of strippers suffer from a form of BPD.

She self medicates with alcohol for her anxiety and depression and loves to party to the point of being a zombie or devil.  She's the gal that's still drinking when everyone else has gone to bed.  She's the gal that drives drunk to get herself home.  She's the gal that would fly into RAGES every 2-3 weeks and just tears me apart verbally... .and then claims blackouts saying she didn't remember anything, promise it wouldn't happen again... .and BAM! there it is. 

This was her Queen side manifesting always spewing the same crap about what a terrible person I was and mortally insulting me.  Sometimes this would happen in front of other people.  Always the same speeches starting with "HOW DARE YOU... ."  She drank at least 4-5 times a week at least to the point of getting a good buzz on... .as long as she didn't overindulge we were fine and happy.

Once she would get past that 5th drink though it was like a switch went off, daggers would be in place of her eyes, and Ms. Hyde would be ripping my soul apart.  There were some minor physical altercations as well with pushing, shaking, the rarely thrown object.  I think this would have kept escalating as time went on. 

I would plead with her to calm down.  Ask her to take a xanax, smoke weed, talk about it in the morning, whatever I could think of... .but I think she really enjoyed attacking me... .letting all the rage from her abused and neglected childhood out on me.  Her parents are a mess.  Mom's an HPD as well and penniless with friend and family who have deserted her from all her mooching.  Her friend remarked to me that she is going to end up just like her mom... .living in a basement and alone.  Her dad is her drinking buddy and brought over booze EVERY thursday to my home.  I think there's a possibility he or someone else in the family sexually abused her... .she's a "professional photographer" though most of the pics she puts up on her fb page are of herself... .scantily clad or half naked... .and the pics are taken by her amateur photog dad.  At first I thought it was just them sharing an interest and bonding... .but someone pointed out that it is weird... .and looking back now... .WEIRD.   

The waif in her would come out when she was sober.  She has no job and is basically a child in a 43 year old body.  Always needed to be taken care of be it bills, drama of the week, she's sick, cramps, whatever.  I loved taking care of her.  That's the codependent in me I know.

Other things to note were that she would bring up things I thought we had resolved, even from years back, and more often so when she was drunk.  It was as if she kept these transgressions against her as weapons to attack me with. 

I broke up with her for the second time in 4 years because I couldn't imagine bringing a child into this... .adopted or not as she's too old and beat up to have a kid.  We miscarried once already.   

She was very sweet and kind about half the time.  Making dinner, cleaning the house, taking our dogs to the park while I was at work... .I really miss that side of her.  When I told her we were breaking up for the second time after yet another INSANE night and that I couldn't take it anymore she kicked up the CARING side up 10 notches and we were happy again... .but I know deep down this was an act and that she would have returned to the BS all over again... .at least I think so.  Part of me REALLY wishes I'd taken that opportunity to get us therapy.

When I was being kind and letting her stay at the house until she found a new place she struck up a relation ship with a new guy and lied to me about it.  I caught her and told her to get the F out of my house.  That was part of the agreement that we wouldn't see new people until she was out.  Then after moving in she posted half naked pics of them all over FB, told a mutual friend that it was either her or me, and basically acted like a child.  He's a wealthy guy who takes steroids and is living the honeymoon phase I wish we had back... .

It's been a very hard road lately.  I'm in therapy, working out all the time, am seeing a rebound gal who just wants fun and sex, and am reading books to try and fix parts of me that I know need work.  I've set up some trips as well to get my mind off this crap. 

I try to say to myself that though I have faults, this was an unfixable situation.  That's she's 43 and with her looks rapidly fading from all the partying that she will soon drink more for that depression and rage all the more.  That she will NOT change for the next guy and that it wasn't me.  Her friends have confirmed that she did the same thing with the ex husband and BF before.  They have no insight into the Personality Disorder side, but think she's an alcoholic.  I take some comfort in that her beauty was the main thing that had power over me and kept bringing me back.  Once it's gone any spell she had will still disappear. 

BTW I'm 38 and still want a kid.  I own a house, have a good job, and am told I'm a handsome chap.  I like to think that I have a lot to offer... .but am very stuck on these HOT messes.  I'm shallow.  I know.  It's simply what I'm attracted to... .I just wish I could have the beauty without the baggage that comes with it.     

So... .I'd like to hear your input.  I'd LOVE examples of anything similar to what happened to you, guys especially.  I know that alcoholism or substance abuse often happens concurrently with this disorder (I've read as high as 60%).  Also, I need to your thoughts on how effective you think therapy is.  Do you think it would have make a difference?   From what I've read alcoholism and personality disorders are EXTREMELY hard to treat and would take years of therapy if she even wanted to go... .which would me confronting her mistakes, the hurt she's caused other people, etc... .which from what I understand is almost impossible for a Cluster B.     

One more thought... .once she begins fighting with this guy do you think she will come back and try to recycle me up?  Please examples are HUGE here.  I'm in 3 weeks of no contact and have blocked her every way I know how.  I've even told mutual friends about that I do NOT want to hear about her. 

Thanks again to you all.  I really really really need help on this. 

[Johnny Alias]

Oh man this hurts.  I'm so tired of waking up in the early morning hours and smoking cigarettes obsessively thinking about her... .

She's a 43 year old BPD with strong HPD characteristics.  There is no self harm to speak of apart from smoking and drinking.  She never threatened to commit suicide or anything like that.  Apart from lying to me after we broke up I'm fairly certain she never cheated on me... .at least physically. 

A little background on her... .she's very beautiful.  Was in playboy and is an ex stripper... .and in my research I found an article stating that 55% of strippers suffer from a form of BPD.

She self medicates with alcohol for her anxiety and depression and loves to party to the point of being a zombie or devil.  She's the gal that's still drinking when everyone else has gone to bed.  She's the gal that drives drunk to get herself home.  She's the gal that would fly into RAGES every 2-3 weeks and just tears me apart verbally... .and then claims blackouts saying she didn't remember anything, promise it wouldn't happen again... .and BAM! there it is. 

This was her Queen side manifesting always spewing the same crap about what a terrible person I was and mortally insulting me.  Sometimes this would happen in front of other people.  Always the same speeches starting with "HOW DARE YOU... ."  She drank at least 4-5 times a week at least to the point of getting a good buzz on... .as long as she didn't overindulge we were fine and happy.

Once she would get past that 5th drink though it was like a switch went off, daggers would be in place of her eyes, and Ms. Hyde would be ripping my soul apart.  There were some minor physical altercations as well with pushing, shaking, the rarely thrown object.  I think this would have kept escalating as time went on. 

I would plead with her to calm down.  Ask her to take a xanax, smoke weed, talk about it in the morning, whatever I could think of... .but I think she really enjoyed attacking me... .letting all the rage from her abused and neglected childhood out on me.  Her parents are a mess.  Mom's an HPD as well and penniless with friend and family who have deserted her from all her mooching.  Her friend remarked to me that she is going to end up just like her mom... .living in a basement and alone.  Her dad is her drinking buddy and brought over booze EVERY thursday to my home.  I think there's a possibility he or someone else in the family sexually abused her... .she's a "professional photographer" though most of the pics she puts up on her fb page are of herself... .scantily clad or half naked... .and the pics are taken by her amateur photog dad.  At first I thought it was just them sharing an interest and bonding... .but someone pointed out that it is weird... .and looking back now... .WEIRD.   

The waif in her would come out when she was sober.  She has no job and is basically a child in a 43 year old body.  Always needed to be taken care of be it bills, drama of the week, she's sick, cramps, whatever.  I loved taking care of her.  That's the codependent in me I know.

Other things to note were that she would bring up things I thought we had resolved, even from years back, and more often so when she was drunk.  It was as if she kept these transgressions against her as weapons to attack me with. 

I broke up with her for the second time in 4 years because I couldn't imagine bringing a child into this... .adopted or not as she's too old and beat up to have a kid.  We miscarried once already.   

She was very sweet and kind about half the time.  Making dinner, cleaning the house, taking our dogs to the park while I was at work... .I really miss that side of her.  When I told her we were breaking up for the second time after yet another INSANE night and that I couldn't take it anymore she kicked up the CARING side up 10 notches and we were happy again... .but I know deep down this was an act and that she would have returned to the BS all over again... .at least I think so.  Part of me REALLY wishes I'd taken that opportunity to get us therapy.

When I was being kind and letting her stay at the house until she found a new place she struck up a relation ship with a new guy and lied to me about it.  I caught her and told her to get the F out of my house.  That was part of the agreement that we wouldn't see new people until she was out.  Then after moving in she posted half naked pics of them all over FB, told a mutual friend that it was either her or me, and basically acted like a child.  He's a wealthy guy who takes steroids and is living the honeymoon phase I wish we had back... .

It's been a very hard road lately.  I'm in therapy, working out all the time, am seeing a rebound gal who just wants fun and sex, and am reading books to try and fix parts of me that I know need work.  I've set up some trips as well to get my mind off this crap. 

I try to say to myself that though I have faults, this was an unfixable situation.  That's she's 43 and with her looks rapidly fading from all the partying that she will soon drink more for that depression and rage all the more.  That she will NOT change for the next guy and that it wasn't me.  Her friends have confirmed that she did the same thing with the ex husband and BF before.  They have no insight into the Personality Disorder side, but think she's an alcoholic.  I take some comfort in that her beauty was the main thing that had power over me and kept bringing me back.  Once it's gone any spell she had will still disappear. 

BTW I'm 38 and still want a kid.  I own a house, have a good job, and am told I'm a handsome chap.  I like to think that I have a lot to offer... .but am very stuck on these HOT messes.  I'm shallow.  I know.  It's simply what I'm attracted to... .I just wish I could have the beauty without the baggage that comes with it.     

So... .I'd like to hear your input.  I'd LOVE examples of anything similar to what happened to you, guys especially.  I know that alcoholism or substance abuse often happens concurrently with this disorder (I've read as high as 60%).  Also, I need to your thoughts on how effective you think therapy is.  Do you think it would have make a difference?   From what I've read alcoholism and personality disorders are EXTREMELY hard to treat and would take years of therapy if she even wanted to go... .which would me confronting her mistakes, the hurt she's caused other people, etc... .which from what I understand is almost impossible for a Cluster B.     

One more thought... .once she begins fighting with this guy do you think she will come back and try to recycle me up?  Please examples are HUGE here.  I'm in 3 weeks of no contact and have blocked her every way I know how.  I've even told mutual friends about that I do NOT want to hear about her. 

Thanks again to you all.  I really really really need help on this. 

[lockedout]

I work 24 hours shifts and I would find evidence of other guys being at the house while I was at work. I found an e-mail from some other guy that was quite incriminating when I was on her computer seeing where she had been looking at was I was looking at on it. I got blamed for "invading her privacy". I spent the last several months living in the cluttered front bedroom on a hard mattress with threadbare sheets staying up at all hours... .reading books to try and fix parts of me that I [knew] needed work; based on what she told me. I'm only ten months separated and she has a new boyfriend that she's taking around to meet the fam. That's a very condensed version of my case; it won't directly help you that much.

It's time to take the focus off her and put it on you. NOTHING can "fix" her. BPDs are notoriously resistant to any kind of therapy. They balk at the idea of any kind of introspect and to openly admit ownership of any of their bad behavior makes the a "bad" person. Based on what you're writing here's a to-do list for you:

1. Stop blaming yourself for what you think you could have done. Even if getting therapy were successful, it would have prolonged an even more painful inevitable.

2. Toss the books you're reading. Based on your hindsight, they're the wrong ones. Yes, there are things you need to work on, but you're barking up the wrong tree and now isn't the time. Get the book Splitting, especially if you were married.

3. Take care of yourself. Cut back or quit the cancer sticks if you can. Don't bring alcohol to where you're living until you know you're not going to get to the bottom every night. Exercise. A good run should convince you of the damage from smoking cigarettes in the early morning hours.

4. Reconnect with all the friends and family you alienated over the years you were with here. They'll understand without long tearful explanations. If they don't, they weren't your friends.

5. Don't sit home brooding at night. Even if you go into your local paper and look for local activities, GTF out of the house. It may be just a church or bible group or yoga class in the park somewhere, it's better than whatever you might be doing wither at home or driving home from some bar.

6. Journal what you're going through. Use your own and become a regular on this forum. There's nothing you went through, are going through, or will go through that someone on here hasn't and/or can't help you with.

7. I'm also 38, so one (kid) is enough. But when you're ready to start dating again (well down the road), it's just an excuse to look for younger chicks. I couldn't run a mile a year ago. I'm training for a half marathon now. I also hit the weights. My body looks better now than it did 15 years ago. How did I do it?  The anger and depression you're feeling now gave the the energy. Stop smoking, watch your diet and the drinking and won't be long before you're guaranteed to be a good looking guy. If she keeps smoking and drinking, she won't be something you would have wanted to wake up to in your golden years anyway. Don't end up like that too.

[ShadowDancer]

Jeeze... .other than occasionally cleaning up the house... .were you dating my ex?  

Welcome to the club!

[READY2LEAVE]

Good for you that you're free of her for the time being and hopefully forever. I wish I could have the last 10/30 years back. I'm 57 and trying to end my marriage now. Don't go back to misery. Are you crazy too? I've been thinking about my next relationship. I too am attracted to physical beauty but would gladly have the stability and companionship of a less beautiful woman.The old saying beauty is from the inside of a person sounds wise. My brother married less attractive than I did and is much happier! If you want kids, seek someone with impeccable mental stability, good intelligence, good genes. I found out my wife's grandmother was institutionalized and her sister deemed unstable/disabled due to mental issues also. Another possible truism:? Always marry uglier (less attractive) than you-makes you the prize and puts you in the position of being valued.

Just my thoughts.   

[lockedout]

The best thing is to learn to love yourself and not depend on someone else to make you happy. That takes a very long time after a BPD relationship. I'm almost a year out and not even near that. And you can have both beauty and stability. Don't settle for minimally attractive, go for one that  can both get your motor running and has stability no matter how long it takes.

Johny A. won't get there today, tomorrow, next week, and probably not even next year. But he will get there someday if he learn to forgive himself and love himself again. Takes time. A lot of time.

[Johnny Alias]

Thank you all for your comments and advice.  Honestly wish I could just "Push' her out of my mind and let it all go with the wave of a magic wand but I am not there yet.  I'm not.  I'm still in the obsessive phase I think many of you are or were in that stage so a little empathy on that front would be appreciated. 

I'm hoping some of you could just relate stories about taking them back, about how things DID NOT change, about substance abuse bringing out the rage etc. 

Forgive me I'm still in the analytical stage of all this.  I will be able to let go after some and time, but I've only been in N/C for 3 weeks!  Right now I need validation that I did the right thing and examples of what's happened to other people will get me there.  If you can give me those I'd much appreciate it. 

[Ironmanrises]

Johnny,

I am really sorry you experienced that. The examples you seek are all located in the accounts on this board. There are 700+ pages of this. Many accounts eerily similar. Just read a few of them and you will see, and start to wonder, are these anonymous people posting on here reading my mind? That is how I felt when I first came here. Hang in there.

[lockedout]

Ironman's advice is good and you should read the stories. Some haven't had is as hard as you, and some not as easy.

Empathy is great, and I certainly feel and understand your hurt. Too much of it though can make you too comfortable in your position - it's easy to when you always have a shoulder to cry on and tell you everything is OK. It's not what is going to heal your hurt: only you can do that and it take a lot of time and a lot of work. On the same token, it could also lead you into a recycle - go through the emotional torment again knowing you have people to empathize the next time she gets bored with you.

I'm not trying to sound harsh, but I was right where you are not too long ago. I had sources of empathy and support (especially this forum), but that's only one part of what got me where I am ten months later. And I still have a long way to go and a lot to do.

[Phoenix.Rising]

Examples of going back?  I went through several recycles, and the outcome each time was more painful.  There would be a honeymoon period, but the devaluation always followed, and I hope I never have to experience that again.  The switch in her would always seem to come out of nowhere, although after some time together, I was able to pick up on certain signals or patterns. 

Her drinking pattern sounds almost identical to what you described, and she was an absolute knock-out physically.  My jaw nearly dropped the first time she undressed in front of me.  That was a big part of what kept me hooked.  And when I say hooked, I realized deeper into the relationship that I was addicted to her.  She is about the same age as your ex as well. 

When she was sweet and loving, it was incredible.  There are many special moments with her that forever will be seared in my heart and mind.  It's been well over a year now for me, and I still have days where I ache for her.  Overall, though, I have come a very long way.  It seemed almost unbearable at first, but my thoughts of her now are sporadic, if anything.  I don't wake up thinking about her and she is not what I'm thinking of when I fall asleep.  I can also see much more clearly now with some distance and posting on this site how sick our relationship was in so many ways.  I would not have been happy or content staying with her.  The alcohol abuse was too much in and of itself, but the devaluation would've been too difficult for me, I believe.  Sometimes I wonder if I could've handled things differently, but in reality I know my gut was telling me the right thing to do - move on and don't contact her anymore.

I found out she married a guy not too long after we split up, so I think they only dated 2-3 months.  This is her third marriage.  Now I do hope that she is going to be Ok.  I do still care about her, and I realize she is suffering from something very intense and hard to treat.  Some people with BPD do recover, but that road is long and hard.  There is NOTHING you can do to change, help, or save her.  Read that sentence again.  You can save yourself, however.

I think the best advice for you would be to continue educating yourself on BPD, so you can look for early warning signs in future potential partners.  I've already experienced this and had to back away.  Also, focus on your recovery as much as you can instead of her and what she's doing.  We were just as sick as they are, but in a different way.  When you can start to touch on some that, you are on your way to doing something different in the future.  Otherwise, we will likely pick a partner that is very similar.  I've found a lot of relationship problems can be traced back to my family of origin and unhealthy boundaries and ways of relating.  I have a tendency to lose myself in relationships.  Whether we realize it or not, I believe most of us on here suffer from similar fears, dependencies, etc. that our ex partners suffered from.  It creates the perfect storm.  And a hell of a storm it is!

Best to you on your journey.

Phoenix.Rising