What is "LOVE"?

[LivingLearning]

Seems like a really funny thing to me. I've had it, I've lost it, I thought I had it, I thought I lost it... .

Is "love" really particular  when it comes to romantic  relationships.

    I always hoped so: Maybe someone would be the walk through the woods, the laughter, the moment looking at some leaves on the ground in autumn. Little moments of joy, peace, or sensuality, that feel like love.

People, therapists, books, speak of healthy "love". Sometimes I wonder:

what the heck? Love, like , affinity, whatever... .love is a construct made by Disney-like forces (like me) meanwhile, others are just living.   ?

[Perfidy]

  Have you ever read The Chemistry Between Us: Love, Sex, and the Science of Attraction?  When you have ongoing sex with someone, there are instinctual bonds that form.  www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=mind-reviews-the-chemistry-between-us


This is a post from one of the family. Share with you. I told him I thought it was witchcraft

[BuildingFromScratch]

I wrote this in my journal when I had to go over my innocent love for her and face my pain. I think it's the most accurate description of love I've figured out.

"Love is a voice that tells us, I have faith in you and everything will be okay. We need this voice because the world always tries to tell us otherwise. We the believe the most convincing things that tell us this"

[zordon11]

I always liked this quote (source the internet): "Love is handing over the tools of your own personal destruction to someone and trusting that person will not to use them against you"

[HarmKrakow]

I have no idea what love is.

I do know what love isn't... .

It isn't abusing someone

It isn't lying to someone

It isn't cheating to someone

It isn't threatening someone

It isn't cursing at someone

It isn't using children as leverage for an argument

It isn't walking over boundaries...

It isn't any of that. But what it is? No idea.

[Traumatized]

I've heard the saying that love is a commitment.  I was committed to my BPDx and wanted to resolve our differences so we could keep going.  She didn't.  The very same night she broke up with me she went from DEMANDING we get couples counseling, to you're not worth it, it's over.  I told her that if she really loved me like she said she did, then she would be willing to do whatever it takes to work things out.  She wasn't willing.  She wasn't committed.  She didn't love me. 

[ShadowDancer]

It really depends on what kind of love your talking about. For most "kinds" in my life I have found this very helpful to me when it comes to children, friendship, romance, and self;

"Love is the ability and willingness to allow those you care for to be what they choose for themselves without any insistence that they satisfy you".  Wayne Dyer

[bpdspell]

There are many different kinds of love, many faces of love….therefore it cannot be succinctly labeled or defined. A lot of people are uncomfortable with that kind of ambiguity…or shades of grey but it is freeing to not get locked into definitions of love.

Love to me is God. God is Love. Some people may not agree with me but this is what I feel about love.

Did my ex love me? Yes. In his own limited capacity he did.

Now do I need his love to feel better about myself? I once believed I did. Now I've grown out of my own limited beliefs.

Do I love myself? It's been a long journey but now I do. Before I didn't. And this is why I allowed my ex to trample me in every way, shape and form.

Our ex's limited capacity to love in a healthy, nurturing and validating way is what hurts us the most but that is the mental illness of BPD. It's a journey to surrendering control and accepting that we can't always bend the universe the way we want it to bend.

Spell

[LivingLearning]

Thanks for the replies, and I"ll read that reference.

What is love?

I'm not really sure anymore, I figure some of the best stuff I've read or felt is that it's just when you do and act in your truth. Not much more than that.

[seeking balance]

I subscribe to Scott Pecks version in the Road Less Traveled.

Love is a verb, it is kindness and caring about another's personal and spiritual needs or growth even in spite of or the absence of feeling.   It is easy to act that way in sex-induced euphoria, but acting that way in the hard times is the verb of love... .

Love is a verb not simply an emotion in my world now.

[LivingLearning]

Yeah, Seeking Balance, I love thinking of it as a verb too... .in a way.

I also like this version from Rick Hanson from "Hardwired for Happiness":

“Love is a deep, powerful, often intense feeling of affection, caring, sweetness, and commitment. It is usually applied to others, though it is possible to feel love for the natural world, humanity as a whole... ."

I suppose what I mean by being ones truth, is that I'm all to familiar with trying to love, trying to be kind. It's interesting to me to experiment with just loving what I love: An allowing, rather than a doing.

I also do think practices that can grow empathy or love are useful, and I suppose that takes more effort or focused practice.

[Regular_Joe]

I agree with SB. Put another way, for me true love is always being able to say, "I love you just as you are right now."

Additionally, I'm gonna stick to my guns and buck conventional wisdom about clinical observations of what BPDs think love is vs. reality. I believe love itself has commonly accepted, immutable traits that defy the often twisted interpretations of most BPDs.

This little ditty, written about 400 years ago, still holds true IMO:

"Let me not to the marriage of true minds

Admit impediments. Love is not love

Which alters when it alteration finds,

Or bends with the remover to remove.

O no! It is an ever fix-ed mark

That looks on tempests, and is never shaken.

It is the star to every wandering bark,

Whose worth's unknown, although his height be taken.

Love's not Time's fool, though rosy lips and cheeks

Within his bending sickle's compass come,

Love alters not with his brief hours and weeks,

But bears it out, even to the edge of Doom.

If this be error, and upon me proved,

I never writ, nor no man ever loved."

Yes, I have it memorized. And yes, I recite it like a mantra every time my exBPD's actions start messing with my head. Helps put things into perspective for me. Thanks Billy Shakespeare!

[LivingLearning]

Yeah I suppose that's the conundrum in a way:

"Loving you as you are right now"

So applied to a BPD ex, that means loving them as they are, BPD and all.

And

choosing not to be with them also.

I suppose that's where my thoughts around being ones truth comes from.

And for me, I can't admit to being capable yet of loving those who i percieve as hurting me. It would be more truthful to say at times I hate them, other times I'm neutral, and other times I find some feeling of love that feels like compassion and forgiveness and humility.

[Learning_curve74]

To me love is to care about the well being of somebody. This can apply to ourselves, our parents, our children, our partners, our friends, our pets, and even strangers we don't know and have never met. The depth of this love can vary from person to person that we love. We can also love somebody from afar without having a relationship witih them.

By my definition, I can even love somebody that hurts me. But even though I love them, I can also choose not to have a relationship with them. Those two are separate things.

[LivingLearning]

"Love is to care about the well being of somebody"

That really resonates with me. Thank you!

That could mean detaching, NC, little contact... .much contact. Who knows?

[BuildingFromScratch]

All my life, I've never been a spiritual person. But I know what love is now. Love is the valuation of somethings worthiness to exist. And the fact that we exist at all gives us this worthiness. In religious terms, god gives us the worthiness to exist. The more developed your ego is, the more this sinks in and the more you can express this worthiness to yourself and others. People with BPD, have an underdeveloped ego, so they have a very hard time seeing this. Really I think we should view them as children. Even if they cause so much damage (especially if we let them). This worthiness is also what allows us to freely express ourselves and experience joy as we are. It is what we can give to allow other people to feel the same.

[Calm Waters]

Love,hmmm I thought I had it with my BPD ex gf. We had known each other at a distance for 20 years, there had always been a ' spark'. When I gave up on my marriage and family over a year ago (my own BPD and NPD issues) and walked out she was one of the first to hear about it.

She pounced,we spent time together and rapidly it started to happen, that infatuation, the feeling that this is the person you have waited for all of your life, that sense of completeness that you had met the missing part of yourself, what we in the west call being ' in love ' . I knew in my rational self that this cant be happening, cant trust it, I had been in a marriage for 30 years, 2 kids, how could this be real. My feelings of emptiness and loneliness that had dogged me all my life - gone.

I expressed my doubts and concerns to her, she soothed me and convinced me that ' I am the one for her' I felt the same, I got drawn in, it was bliss!

Then ' oh by the way, the guy I have been going out with for the last 9 months is back tomorrow, I will have to take the day to dump him' I was confused ' what guy' - ' Pete, he sent those flowers, he wants to marry me but I want you now'.

I didn't want to see the red flag, felt privilaged that I was the one, my love addiction for her was now strong, she wanted me to move in with her (I was couch surfing) I was honoured no man had been invited this close since her divorce 16 years ago. I fell hook line and sinker, told her all my secrets as i wanted this to really work, no lies no deceit, just hones to goodness love.

WE had a lovely summer at our favourite intimate childhood hideouts, Scotland, I loved her more every day and she seemed to adore me. Then in the autumn the problems started. It felt a bit fake, she was depressed and ailments started bothering her. Her daughters now grown up took up more and more time. One had a cancer scare, I supported her but that wasn't enough, suddenly I was the problem, the cause of all her stress.

I was confused but would not own what was not mine. This led to conflict, 3 time it happened, her turning on me, so I very kindly said ok, I never wanted to stress you out so I will move out. " days later she took an overdose and nearly died. This pulled me back in, I was in shock, how - why? then the secrets and lies came out - she was deep in debt and needed me to help pay the rent - rescue her, she owed tax money and they were investigating, I had offered to help her with her tax return. She was self medicating her panic attacks - kept hidden from me, I understood, stayed by her bedside, talked to her whilst she was in a coma, stroked her. prayed that she would wake up.

Her family blamed me! I understood, but I loved her even more for her fragility. She woke up - what joy, lets start again when you are well. Whilst she was recovering she was planning the next campaign. I was couch surfing but seeing her weekends, she as it turns out was hooking the next guy and when she was well enough I was 'turned black' and consigned to the scrap heap of failed weak boyfriends.

She had inherited and paid her debts, I was no longer needed, her counter dependant BPD / NPD traits now had a full hold. Discard this loser ( me) and move on. I was crushed confused bereft I became suicidal but didn't try. It has taken me a year to recover to the point where I can function.I feel like a BPD NPD expert I have read so much. I have learned all about me and my crazy family that produced me. I understand her family was similar - we were like brother and sister that's why we fell for eachother, that why we felt so ' at home' and infatuated.

What I have described is what BPD NPD people are capable of, love /infatuation for a short while. longer if there is geographical distance to regulate the intimacy. I found out later that this has happened at least 10 times, ten guys ruined since her divorce, only this suicide attempt as far as I know. The one guy that is still revered died in her arms, 10 years older, her Daddy substitute.

My wife accepted me back - we are working on our relationship - That is real love! and I have learned that I cannot trust infatuation.

[Ironmanrises]

Whatever I thought it once was prior to my encounter with my exUBPDgf has been utterly decimated in the aftermath. I have retreated on all fronts when it comes to "love" and what that means.

[Regular_Joe]

I don't want to trivialize this post in any way; obviously, I think this is a valid, healthy question that deserves honest and serious consideration.

On the other hand, I also believe that laughter is often the best medicine if you're hurting and confused. In that spirit, here's a link to an amusing home made animated version of - you guessed it - Haddaway's iconic pop song:

www.youtube.com/watch?v=AsEDk0E6gpM

Cheers!

[necchi]

I always liked this quote (source the internet): "Love is handing over the tools of your own personal destruction to someone and trusting that person will not to use them against you"

Did this, then fell,did it again... .then fell, did it again... .and again... .

hope I'm strong enough next time,because everything she used against me even if she truly understand my pain and the reason behind , but she realy can't cope with understanding and reasoning. So maybe i have learn this ,although i knew but keep going back in the rollercoaster,then a wheel would pop! Off, then back again, ... .then this f£cking wheel again... .