Last Straw- Going no contact with my mom.

[lauren2013]

Last weekend my mom had another "episode."  It was at my brother-in-law's house (embarrassing) and it was in front of my 8 week old daughter (unacceptable).  After I had my daughter I promised myself that she would NEVER be exposed to the anger, hatred, insanity of my mom.  I would do everything in my power to protect her.  So, after last saturday's episode, that's it.  I'm done.  

I've been at my breaking point since last April.  My mom had an episode when I went home (from LONDON no less) over easter weekend and I ended up taking the train from san diego to LA by myself on easter sunday because I had to flea the scene.  I remember looking out the window of the train and thinking "what am i doing?  why am I still putting up with this?" I was four months pregnant at the time.

I didn't talk to her for months after that, but she slowly crept back in. I think it's because the no contact just sort of happened and it wasn't a solid, conscious decision on my part.  Also, I was pregnant and everyone wanted to hear about the baby, etc.

Well, after last weekend, I have decided that I want to have ZERO contact with my mom.  It's weird and I'm wondering if any of you that have decided to go no contact have felt this way:  I was crying and horrified after her episode on saturday, but I also felt this incredible sense of relief.  It was almost as if, after 30 years of being in prison, I was freed.  A huge weight was lifted off of my chest and I felt an incredible sense of optimism about the future.  I feel like I've had a cloud over my life for years and years and years, and last weekend, it was lifted.  It was as if I needed her to have that final outburst for me to make the decision to free myself.  She needed to prove to me that this was the right decision.  And, as terrible as it is that it happened at my brother-in-law's house, it was also absolutely perfect.  Because my husband and I had his whole family there to support us after she left, and, even though they know how she is, it was kind of nice for them to see it for themselves so that they TRULY understand the gravity of her disease.  The thing that has surprised me the most is that the optimism isn't just about things that relate to her... .it's about EVERYTHING.  It's like I'm excited about LIFE again.  I want to do more things, be happy, meet people.  It's hard to explain.  I would do those things before, but I was ALWAYS worrying about her power over me and when I'd have to see her again.

I KNOW that going no contact is the best decision for me and my family.  I get nothing out of my relationship with her.  NOTHING. But I find myself experiencing a ton of anxiety all of the sudden.  I'm so afraid that she is going to try to push her way back into my life.  I'm afraid of her ANGER.  I'm afraid of her POWER.  For some reason, she has so much power over me, and, even though she is small (literally 8 inches shorter than i am), I am more afraid of her than anything in the entire world.  Terrified.  It would be so much easier if she would just move to another country and disappear, or if she'd just let me live my life without contact... .but I know that won't happen.  I'm so scared now that she is going to ruin this peace that I've found.  This excitement for life.  The only reason to let her back in at all is to calm the anger that I know she will have.

I started to have physical reactions to the anxiety I was feeling about her.  Weird things happening to my throat/tongue in her presence, stomach issues, panic attacks.  This is no way to live.  It's sick.

I am scared of her.  I hate her.  I get knots in my stomach even envisioning being in the same room as her.  I honestly have no reason to have her in my life and it doesn't even make me sad to say that.  The only reason I feel sad is that I didn't realize this sooner.  I feel like I have a new lease on life and I don't want it to end.

I don't know how to keep the No Contact permanent and for some reason I feel like it's out of my control... .just like I've always felt with everything.  I'm just so terrified of what the future holds and what she is going to do next.

Has anyone gone through something similar?  I don't know what to do or expect... .

[StarStruck]

Hiya -

lauren2013.

I saw my mum 2 yrs ago, circumstances have helped with that. mothersday, bday cards sent with emails to say thanks

I am due for a visit.

I've never formally said VLC-NC but thats way its gone. & No phone calls or texts. I would say if I had to box myself Im Very Low Contact. (VLC) as still due this visit - the joys. Some members only have cards in VLC.

Its the best thing I have ever done... .really difficult at first. It looks weird when you first start doing it - putting boundaries but then like you said  sense of relief strikes you. I should say my parents aren't together, don't know if that actually makes it easier but thought Id say.


Its getting ridiculous seeing her so infrequently and now dreading more than ever because its been so long. I think it will go smoothly but could be time for her to question, we shall see. There's a chance Im having the time of my life now.

If the poop hits fan, I will be very reasonable and still continue what Im doing because its GREAT. God knows if it came to it whether I tell her my BPD suspicions. As I said on another post recently "enjoy your rubbish life" is the attitude with me

All that guilt you feel is really normal but those thoughts that kept me going back time and time again to her,thinking maybe it will change.It never does though and like you; having years of it. Also I had a few final straw moments.

Pulling away I gave myself chance to heal and grow... .& do you know what in the end... .I found I didn't have time for her, face to face or in my mind. I had catching up to do. What was it that I wanted out of MY life.

I have a lot of space to SEE now... and theres no going back in my mind. So I will no doubt be very different around her and I know that will NOT work for her. No more pandering, letting her say stupid remarks without me pulling her up etc. She likes the under the radar stuff, narc supply that sort of thing, very defensive. I say the wrong thing without even trying. Its a mystery.

VLC for me has bought me the time to really SEE. I also hope that its stopped a big blow up formal ending. It helps in my situ because shes the one that neglected first. If you stick up for yourself she wont call you. You always have to be the one.

This might be very different for you. As I realize you suddenly going VLC or NC, will prick her ears up (if you see her alot that is). Mine happened by accident... .well when your theoretically burned you don't think to rush back over do you. Then she didn't make the effort in fact, she hasn't given a monkeys for years (unsure whether same for you). She thinks she's great though I'm sure; its everyone else's fault. Gosh Im such an awful daughter etc.  she says I don't think she likes visiting... .f'in understatement  

I was scared of her, I'm not now. Try not to be afraid of her hurting you, remember she's already done that before, you know what to expect. Its not about you remember she scrabbling around trying to protect her ego.

I suppose all I can offer, is to say I felt awful about going off my Mom in general but I don't anymore, its her fault it happened. It's amazing how good you feel! You can do this... .I was right in the mix but not anymore.

Keep posting, there's people with a wealth of experience on here. I've found it really helpful.

PS Remember whichever way you do this, it will work, you just have to start. You empowering yourself will make the right moves without trying. It will muscle her out, of your head, your life. She can only survive if your feeding her.

[StarStruck]

Sorry for waffle. I just think important for you to know so you can compare situ's.

To put it bluntly... .Just blimin GO FOR IT ! x

PS Up In the Air's posts on here may be of help to you

[lauren2013]

Thanks for responding, Missful.  

I think the fact that my parents are still together (which is another issue in and of itself) makes things more complicated.  But my dad is absolutely suffering from Stockholm Syndrome (www.en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stockholm_syndrome) and in this very weird way has recently started thinking that I am the one causing the drama.  It's unreal.  So maybe separating from both of them is not such a bad idea.  But I sort of feel like I am being rescued from a sinking ship and I want to drag my dad off with me, but he is too heavy or maybe already almost dead so I have to leave him behind... .it feels like that's the best way to describe the way I feel about the situation.

I also just had a baby which complicates things even further.  She is the 1st grandchild on my side and my mom has literally waited her whole life for grandchildren.  She is obsessed.  But you know what, I keep thinking about everything from her perspective. Like, how devastating for her to not have contact with her daughter?  How horrible that she won't see her granddaughter?  But I can't keep thinking about HER feelings and HER reactions.  I put my own feelings second when I do that, and, like I said, I know what is best for me.  It's no contact.

I don't think I could do VLC b/c I am so angry with her.  I don't want to talk to her at all.  :)o you feel anger towards your mom?

[StarStruck]

Hiya,

Thats not good to hear, feel for you with your dad. Thats heart wrenching.

I think you can only do one thing first though, worrying about your dads rescue when you haven't saved yourself could be problematic.

Rescue yourself then go back? Or do you somehow think you gone will make his situ worse? or is it because you're understandably upset and worried for him?

Given the normal guilt feelings you have about Mom; You've taken a brilliant step to go no contact, thats a strong move. I think means you've got you're head around it.

Yea I do feel anger but I try to reason with that feeling; it is a battle when something new comes up, contact that is.  I  think NC is the best thing for me. I think I'm on the edge of NC. When I don't see her I can feel sorry for her so no anger now.

As times gone on I feel happier and happier about it. If I start having contact new anger from situations with her pulls on the old anger & sure holds you back on living YOUR life

[StarStruck]

I get what you mean about VLC. Thinking of it I can only do VLC because Im not seeing her at all at the moment.

I dont think I could continue seeing her. Which would then be cards in the post... .then I suppose after a while you think whats the point of that.

Blimin long process this.

Its tough because theyve got issues, when youre away from them NC, you start to feel sorry for them but thats the trap Ive learnt.

I really dont want to see her after all this time but it my fault because I said I would and Ive been putting it off. Been so busy though.

Other thing when you start to have a family of your own - you do begin to think ... .do I want them to know this person = NO

[chickadee]

I can completely relate. My mom is high-functioning and was pretty careful about behaving herself in front of others, but in one on one situations, I have endured many "explosions" from her, like you have. Even when I was pregnant, that didn't change anything. Most people are protective and careful around pregnant women, but that's not to be expected from a mother with BPD, who might actually put her grandchild in danger even before he/she is born.

I've been completely NC with my mother since 2007, and the last time we've spoken was in 2005, on New Year's Eve. Holidays can be especially difficult.  In 2006, I had physical symptoms including heart palpitations and some gynecological issues, due to the stress of going NC.  It certainly was a scary time for me, not knowing what will happen.  The only thing that did happen was I received a card from my parents for my b-day in October, which was signed "we love you, (chickadee)".  It angered me because I knew it was bait meant to lure me back into a dysfunctional relationship all over again.  I didn't respond and then my son and I (not my husband  ) received Xmas gifts.  So in 2007 I decided to write to her demanding to know what she wanted from me.  The reply I received angered me more and I made a decision---to spell everything out to her.  For me this meant I was going to be completely honest with her and tell her that she emotionally abused and neglected me and verbally abused me as well.  She never made any effort to have a healthy relationship with me, ever.  Four decades of FOG was all I could bear and I also told her I feared she had BPD and asked her to seek help in the form of individual therapy.  I never heard from her again, and neither did my son, who was 15 at the time, except for when he graduated from high school.  After 4 years of silence, I guess she thought that a card and a gift of $200 would make everything between them peachy again.  My son cashed the check and never replied, so I think they got the message that he is not interested in them either.  I have never discussed my parents with him much, but he's very bright and he knows how devastating their effect has been on me, both emotionally and physically. 

That incredible sense of relief you mentioned after your final blowout with your mom, I had that too.  I began to do things I had been putting off and developed a very rewarding hobby that might not have come about had I still been oppressed by the burden of dealing with her.  During that last conversation I had with her in 2005, she said many things that she had been holding back over the years and confirmed some suspicions I had about her true feelings and motivations.  I was a bit horrified by them, but without realizing it, she was freeing me from a lot of guilt by revealing how sick her mind really is.  I even told her how afraid of her I have always been, but that had no effect on her.  Whenever she showed concern for my emotional and physical well-being, much of it was really just an act.  She wanted me around to boost her ego, not because she really ever cared about me.  This is pretty obvious, considering the fact that once I showed her I was on to her, she dropped me like a hot potato.  I was of no use to her anymore, and I seriously doubt she has ever sought help.  I have only kept in touch with one of my aunts (her youngest out of 5 sisters) and I feel that it wouldn't be right for her and me to discuss my mother, so we don't, so I never ask questions about how my mother is doing.  My aunt knows about my NC status and it's OK with her, she knows what my mom is like.  The rest of my aunts---they either have BPD or have too many traits of BPD for me to deal with. 

I sympathize with you about fearing your mother, I really do.  I still fear mine, and I think I always will.  The therapist I used to see told me that when she becomes angry, suddenly you feel like a little kid again, fearing your own mother's wrath, and she was a lot bigger than you were then!  I think it's a form of PTSD.  We've been taught---very deliberately---to fear her so she can command us.  It's sick and we shouldn't have to put up with it.  You have an infant to care for now and that is hard enough.  Having a baby had a profound influence over my relationship with my own mother, because I was responsible for my child and I became very protective, kind of like a mama bear protecting her young.  I don't even feel like I love my mother anymore.  My father is under her influence, so I had to give him up to avoid her, but I think this may have been a blessing in disguise.  I have suspicions about him and I wonder if he might have sexually abused me when I was extremely young. 

One thing about confronting your mother... .I told my mom about her having BPD before I found this group, and here they recommend not telling, because it doesn't do any good and the information is not received well by the person with BPD.  I don't really regret telling her because it did get her off my back, but I just want to caution you to think about it before you do anything.  However, I see nothing wrong at all with telling someone that they need help, as your mom clearly does.  If she tries to lure you back in, you could make it a condition that she must meet before you will even THINK about taking her back.  That might go a long way towards keeping her out of your life, because people with BPD don't want to change, they don't feel they should have to because in their view it's always someone else that is at fault when something goes awry in a relationship.  They don't want to have to work on a relationship and probably wouldn't even know how to.  They prefer to rely on FOG (fear, obligation and guilt) to oppress their kids into cooperating with them rather than cultivate a true, solid and fulfilling relationship.   

It might not seem like it now, but you do have more control than you think.  You sound very resolved, and seeking support here is a good sign in itself that you are a stronger person than you think, even with regard to your mother.  Even if you are afraid and she knows it, you still have the power to put your foot down and say this is how it is, and don't allow disapproval from others stop you from protecting yourself from your mother.  People might sympathize with her, and that's their prerogative, but they probably don't know all of the facts and they certainly don't know what it's like to be you.  YOU are the best person to decide what is best for you and your little one.  People may say you need to be forgiving, but forgiveness is not the issue.  The issue is that your mother continues to be abusive to you in the PRESENT and that is not going to change, even if you have forgiven her for things in the past.  And don't worry about the past, the fact is that you have finally decided you must protect yourself and your future will be better for it, in time.  Without having to deal with your mom, over time you will gain a much healthier outlook on life, and you will be able to recognize abuse for what it is.  This clarity will help you deal with others, including your family, friends, co-workers, and complete strangers as well.  You'll be able to recognize unhealthy behavior right away, and that is the first step to dealing effectively with all sorts of nonsense.  The fear you have right now though is normal, in my humble opinion.  I was terrified after I sent that honest letter to my mom and had no idea what to expect.  Perhaps the strength I exhibited by sending it was enough to let my mother know that it will be much harder, if not impossible, to bully me.  They say bullies are cowards, perhaps there's some truth to that.  Holidays and birthdays will be difficult for a while, you'll feel guilty about not sending cards and gifts, but that will pass.  You will feel better eventually, you can depend on that.  For now, you have that little baby to occupy your time... .I'm so jealous, mine turns 21 next month!  Make the most of your child's babyhood while you can because it goes by so fast!    Take comfort in the fact that you will be 100 times a better mother than your mom, and your child will reap the rewards.

Finally, keep reading and posting here because it will help you enormously to have the support of people who know what you're going through.     chickadee.  (cross-posted)

[StarStruck]

Hi chickadee - wow your post, so eloquently put. Thank you for sharing.

It's truly great to hear someone doing so well with NC.  

[Sitara]

I don't know how to keep the No Contact permanent and for some reason I feel like it's out of my control... .just like I've always felt with everything.  I'm just so terrified of what the future holds and what she is going to do next.

I found a quote on another board that might help you. 

You usually have more power than you think you do to change your situation. What you don't usually have the power to do is to change what other people do.

This was from the TOOLS: Ease your pain by reframing your thoughts board.  If you haven't read it yet, it may be helpful in giving you a new way to think that may make things a little less stressful on you. https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=137440.0

I also just had a baby which complicates things even further.  She is the 1st grandchild on my side and my mom has literally waited her whole life for grandchildren.  She is obsessed.  But you know what, I keep thinking about everything from her perspective. Like, how devastating for her to not have contact with her daughter?  How horrible that she won't see her granddaughter?  But I can't keep thinking about HER feelings and HER reactions.  I put my own feelings second when I do that, and, like I said, I know what is best for me.  It's no contact.

I thought the same thing at first.  My mom kept us apart from all our relatives, and so I grew up longing for a relationship with my grandparents.  So it was important to me that my kids know their grandparents.  However, my mom was a big caretaker of my oldest son, and my husband and I started noticing some behavioral changes after he spent time with her (mostly low self esteem).  It was hard to change my thinking, and I still sometimes feel guilty from keeping my kids away from a grandma who wants to be involved, but time apart from my mom (and changing some of my parenting issues, because I need to take responsibility too!) my son is doing much better.  Seeing this change really helps me keep it in perspective that keeping distance from her is the best thing I can do for my family. 

Do you feel anger towards your mom?

It depends on the day.  Some days I get so angry for the childhood I never had and the family that is not possible.  Sometimes it helps to keep it in perspective that she's sick, and she's living in a very tiny, miserable world.  But that makes me sad too.  I just find it hard to understand not wanting to work to bring some happiness into your life!

But I sort of feel like I am being rescued from a sinking ship and I want to drag my dad off with me, but he is too heavy or maybe already almost dead so I have to leave him behind

I feel very bad for my dad too.  I get the impression his mom had a type of PD and he's just repeating the cycle.  But he's not willing to face that anything is wrong and he's completely in survivor mode.  Which means that he's willing to throw me under the bus if it will make his situation easier.  You can't save someone who doesn't want saving.  I learned that one the hard way.

You sound like you know what you want, you just aren't sure how to stick to your guns.  Have you read the BOUNDARIES - Living our values thread? https://bpdfamily.com/content/values-and-boundaries

This is one I find myself revisiting quite often.

[petridish]

Last weekend my mom had another "episode."  It was at my brother-in-law's house (embarrassing) and it was in front of my 8 week old daughter (unacceptable).  After I had my daughter I promised myself that she would NEVER be exposed to the anger, hatred, insanity of my mom.  I would do everything in my power to protect her.  So, after last saturday's episode, that's it.  I'm done.  

I've been at my breaking point since last April.  My mom had an episode when I went home (from LONDON no less) over easter weekend and I ended up taking the train from san diego to LA by myself on easter sunday because I had to flea the scene.  I remember looking out the window of the train and thinking "what am i doing?  why am I still putting up with this?" I was four months pregnant at the time.

I didn't talk to her for months after that, but she slowly crept back in. I think it's because the no contact just sort of happened and it wasn't a solid, conscious decision on my part.  Also, I was pregnant and everyone wanted to hear about the baby, etc.

Well, after last weekend, I have decided that I want to have ZERO contact with my mom.  It's weird and I'm wondering if any of you that have decided to go no contact have felt this way:  I was crying and horrified after her episode on saturday, but I also felt this incredible sense of relief.  It was almost as if, after 30 years of being in prison, I was freed.  A huge weight was lifted off of my chest and I felt an incredible sense of optimism about the future.  I feel like I've had a cloud over my life for years and years and years, and last weekend, it was lifted.  It was as if I needed her to have that final outburst for me to make the decision to free myself.  She needed to prove to me that this was the right decision.  And, as terrible as it is that it happened at my brother-in-law's house, it was also absolutely perfect.  Because my husband and I had his whole family there to support us after she left, and, even though they know how she is, it was kind of nice for them to see it for themselves so that they TRULY understand the gravity of her disease.  The thing that has surprised me the most is that the optimism isn't just about things that relate to her... .it's about EVERYTHING.  It's like I'm excited about LIFE again.  I want to do more things, be happy, meet people.  It's hard to explain.  I would do those things before, but I was ALWAYS worrying about her power over me and when I'd have to see her again.

I KNOW that going no contact is the best decision for me and my family.  I get nothing out of my relationship with her.  NOTHING. But I find myself experiencing a ton of anxiety all of the sudden.  I'm so afraid that she is going to try to push her way back into my life.  I'm afraid of her ANGER.  I'm afraid of her POWER.  For some reason, she has so much power over me, and, even though she is small (literally 8 inches shorter than i am), I am more afraid of her than anything in the entire world.  Terrified.  It would be so much easier if she would just move to another country and disappear, or if she'd just let me live my life without contact... .but I know that won't happen.  I'm so scared now that she is going to ruin this peace that I've found.  This excitement for life.  The only reason to let her back in at all is to calm the anger that I know she will have.

I started to have physical reactions to the anxiety I was feeling about her.  Weird things happening to my throat/tongue in her presence, stomach issues, panic attacks.  This is no way to live.  It's sick.

I am scared of her.  I hate her.  I get knots in my stomach even envisioning being in the same room as her.  I honestly have no reason to have her in my life and it doesn't even make me sad to say that.  The only reason I feel sad is that I didn't realize this sooner.  I feel like I have a new lease on life and I don't want it to end.

I don't know how to keep the No Contact permanent and for some reason I feel like it's out of my control... .just like I've always felt with everything.  I'm just so terrified of what the future holds and what she is going to do next.

Has anyone gone through something similar?  I don't know what to do or expect... .

My mother recently went NC with me (not the first time) as a way to punish me for standing up for myself when she was being hurtful to me (because her "intent" wasn't to hurt me and I should've known that!). I relate so much to the parts you wrote that I bolded.

While the last few years have been really hard for me in dealing with her, it's also become clearer and clearer that it's JUST NOT ME. (I'm a slow learner.) Each of these outbursts makes it easier for me to see how little I have to do with it, both in terms of actually causing it and in terms of her engaging with ME (I represent something else to her most of the time).

The worry about seeing her again and not knowing her reaction (my mother doesn't lash out every time, can be really loving) is a huge stress. Unfortunately my mother chose to move two blocks from where I live and when she's gone silent treatment, I've run into her before at the grocery store between our houses (I do try to avoid it) and elsewhere. I hate the idea that she can so easily walk or drive by and see whether my lights are on. It definitely feels threatening, not because I am scared of her doing anything physically, but because it feels like a violation of my boundaries and a way for her to exert control.

The feeling of being scared of her. I wouldn't have thought this was part of how I feel until I realized that my nightmares are all either apocalyptic scenarios or her just coldly lashing out at me as I crumble.

I don't have any advice for the NC, as I haven't chosen that path yet. I can say that I've done a bit of LC before I knew what that was. I was just trying to get rid of the sense of panic-emergency-drama-sky-is-falling that she was bringing into my life. It worked relatively easily for me -- my mother is really bad at planning/commitment/follow-through, so I was able to nicely request that she make plans with me a certain amount of time in the future (48 hours, I think) and that got rid of 90% of things for quite a while. If I had also insisted on adhering to the plans set, that would've eliminated another 5% or so.

My mother's started to break the silent treatment. She has sent two little notes along the lines of "thinking of you/love you". I haven't responded because there's nothing to respond to. My sense is that I could turn this into VLC easily by responding ONLY when there is real substance to respond to and by staying calm and loving and nice but setting a firm boundary about a change I need to see before we get together.

Sorry I don't have more concrete specific stuff to add for you. Congratulations on your daughter! And kudos on your commitment to raising her in the kind of loving and stable environment that all children deserve!

[Clearmind]

Protecting our kids Lauren is the best thing we can do. I certainly pass no judgment if you wish to go NC - no one can ever know the difficulties you face and not Borderlines are the same. I am not NC with my Dad. We now have a good relationship - it has taken a lot of hard work however he is BPD Lite.

Have you tried boundaries with her?

Do you plan on announcing NC?

[chickadee]

Hi chickadee - wow your post, so eloquently put. Thank you for sharing.

It's truly great to hear someone doing so well with NC.

Thank you Missful.  I just couldn't handle my mother anymore.  I have a chronic pain condition that is undoubtedly related to being abused for decades (did you know, people who suffered childhood abuse are more likely to develop chronic pain?).  I get headaches too, and have a hard time relaxing even now.  Those circumstances helped push me towards NC, because life is hard enough without a BPD mother in tow, especially when you are in constant pain.  Avoiding stress as much as possible is a key part of my coping strategy, because stress really does effect my pain level.  These are all things that a BPD mother can PRETEND to understand, but when push comes to shove, all of her sympathy is for herself alone.  Perhaps if my health situation were different, I might have been able to learn how to deal with her and keep her in my life, but I'm not superwoman.    I had to make a hard choice in order to survive.  Sometimes we have to make hard decisions in life.

One important key to success with NC is the ability to accept that you will be sad about your broken relationship for the rest of your life.  You must be completely out of denial about the fact that your parent with BPD has never and will never love you unconditionally.  Sadly, they don't have that capability and it's useless to go on believing "things will get better".  What's really sad for me is that my mom has not always been a "bad" mom.  They have been few, but there were times when things between me and my mom were wonderful.  In fact, we were getting along famously just a few months before she freaked out on me, making accusations that were insanely ridiculous.  She even accused me of emotionally abusing her, all the while refusing to admit that she EVER emotionally abused me!  It was all so ridiculous that suddenly everything became very clear to me about how sick she is.  It is so heartbreaking to know how truly miserable she is, but I can't save her because I can barely even save myself. 

I think what happened was that she and my dad had been divorced for many years and then about 6 months before the blowout they remarried.  My theory is that having him on her side (as if it had to be that way) again made her feel bold and she decided it was time to challenge the boundaries I had in place to protect myself.  All of the sympathy she had ever expressed for my situation went out the window and she lowered the boom about every complaint she had against me for the past 14 years (that was when my pain condition started).  She took a chance and lost, because I don't think she expected me to withdraw from her entirely and for good.  The relationship I had with my dad had improved considerably while they were divorced, so it was very sad for me to see all the progress he had made go down the tubes very quickly after they reunited.  I sometimes wonder if he is kicking himself for getting back together with her, it's very stressful to be around her.  He has issues too though---he was a very abusive father and I'm sure he has NPD. 

I thought I should say something about forgiveness.  I'm not viciously angry towards my parents anymore, even though I was terribly damaged by them.  It is not good for me at all to carry a lot of anger around with me, because anger fuels physical pain.  I've learned a lot about the mind/body connection, having lived with pain for over 2 decades, and anger is so destructive.  NC is NOT about not being able to forgive my parents, in fact, having all that time away from them has allowed me to think more clearly about the entire situation.  I do NOT gossip about my parents with the one aunt I have chosen to remain on good terms with.  I do not constantly complain and criticize to her like I used to do, because I want to be a mature adult and let everyone know I'm not bitter anymore.  I have no doubt that the rest of the family, including my parents, would love to know what is going through my mind, mainly because vicious gossip was so common in the family, at least while I was still part of it.  My aunt and I have lots in common, including a deep love for nature, and we don't need to gossip about the family in order to have something to talk about. 

I love being healthier emotionally because it makes life so much easier to deal with.  Growing up and finally becoming an adult has had huge rewards for me, like becoming less judgmental towards other people.  I used to be the biggest people pleaser in the world, but now I don't care so much about what others think.  When someone complains about me, I see that as just someone else's opinion, something I can choose not to agree with.  Let them think what they want, I will continue to become the mature adult I want to be. 

[lauren2013]

I can't figure out how to tag people here!

Sitara: thank you for the links! I hadn't read those things yet so I really appreciate it.

Chickadee: I feel like your story is my story.  I can relate to every single thing you said, including the physical manifestations of the stress/anxiety.  I have not had chronic pain, but I've had a number of stomach issues (ulcers, etc) and I now get heart palpitations and PTSD symptoms when even imagining interactions with my mom.  Can you believe these are our MOTHERS we are talking about here?  It is crazy.  I feel like I'm just so used to the fact that my mom is crazy that I don't even realize how horrible it actually is and how sad/angry it really makes me.  Do you know what I mean?  I want to get to the place you are, Chickadee, where you are not viciously angry at your parents any longer.  I am so angry at my mom (and my dad!) that it is actually affecting me more than it is them.  I just keep thinking of the Buddha quote: "Holding on to anger is like grasping a hot coal with the intent of throwing it at someone else; you are the one who gets burned."  I just can't help it, though.  I feel like I hate them.  Maybe it will get better in time... .?

I also know what you mean about accepting that you will be sad about the way things are for the rest of your life.  I think about that a lot.  Growing up I always tried to make things better.  I always tried to arrange dinner for the family, get us to do "normal" things... .seem normal... .and I assumed this role of peacekeeper within the family.  Well, I'm sick of it.  And I finally had to come to the realization in the past few years that I can't save my family and my childhood is over... .it happened.  It's done.  The story has been written and there is nothing I can do to change it.  But I CAN take control of the future and write the story for my own family!

Even as I sit here and write this, my stomach is in knots and I am thinking about how terrified I am of my mother.  I picture her hunched over the computer right now typing me some nasty email (she loves to send horribly inappropriate and angry emails) and I get chills down my spine.  I picture her coming to New York (where I live) over christmas (they'll be in the area for a wedding) and HUNTING me down.  I picture her just trying to destroy me.  And I'm terrified.  It seems like a lot of the BPD moms on here that people talk about don't really care if their kids go NC.  But mine would care.  And she'd keep trying to get back in.  I feel like she won't just let it be.  Maybe that's what scares me?

And I also am afraid of what she's done to me emotionally and how I now interact with my husband.  I KNOW that I have post-traumatic stress b/c I just SHUT DOWN when I'm upset or I feel like I've done something wrong and my husband HATES it.  I know that I don't respond normally to criticism or conflict, but I can't seem to control it.  When we aren't arguing (like right now) it's really easy for me to look at how I react and say "hm -that's not normal."  But when I'm in the moment, I can't do anything to control it.  I just feel such strong emotions and I can't change how I am acting (even though I consciously try!).  It's weird - the nicer he is to me when we are arguing, sometimes the more angry it makes me!  I don't understand the way that I act/react and I know I need to go see a therapist to really work on it, but I just thought I'd mention it in case you've experienced something similar and have any advice.

It makes me feel so much better to come onto these message boards and see so many other people that UNDERSTAND where I am coming from.  I have the most amazing friends in the world that understand what I am going through (and have gone through) on some level, but not on the same level that someone else with a BPD mother/father can understand.  It really feels good to talk about this stuff with people that truly get it.

Does anyone know if there are any support groups that actually meet in person anywhere in the country?  Similar to like what AA does?  I feel like that would be amazing.  I'd definitely go.

[Sitara]

I just SHUT DOWN when I'm upset or I feel like I've done something wrong and my husband HATES it.

I do the same thing too, until things build up too much and I explode, usually at an inappropriate time or over something that's really not that big of a deal.  For me, shutting down is really a part of a larger issue.  Growing up, the only feelings that I was really allowed to express were the angry ones.  Yelling was a main form of communication.  Anything else (i.e. happy, sad, excited) were met with negative consequences and so I learned to hide those away.  I never learned how to appropriately deal with any of my emotions. 

I've been having a lot of trouble with my very emotional 4 year old son, mainly because I have difficulty with my own emotions, and I ran across this parenting technique called emotion coaching.  I use this technique with him, and I do a modified version for myself when I'm having issues. 

Be aware of my emotions.

Name my emotions.

Figure out why I'm feeling that way.

Figure out a healthy solution.

When I first started trying to tackle my emotions I did this a lot, and I would say them out loud to really force me to face them.  Sometimes out of the blue I would just say, "I feel sad."  This threw my husband at first, but then we'd have a discussion about it, and it forced me to acknowledge, feel and fully explore my feelings.  It's helped me to realize it's okay to have feelings, and constantly talking my son through his feelings gives me lots of practice.  I've had a lot better control of all my emotions since I've started doing this.

The other thing I started doing with my husband quite some time ago was I asked him to point out when I was shutting down or flying off the handle.  It would make me pause and it was often the turning point.  I'd only suggest it if you think you can change modes in the heat of the moment with only a reminder.

What do you think causes you to shut down?

[chickadee]

Chickadee: I feel like your story is my story.

That's how I felt reading your post, and it's why my post was so long! I wanted to address all of the things I could relate to.

Can you believe these are our MOTHERS we are talking about here?  It is crazy.

Oh, I know!  It sounds like we are talking about our worst enemy, not the woman who is supposed to love us more than anyone else in the world. 

I am so angry at my mom (and my dad!) that it is actually affecting me more than it is them.  I just keep thinking of the Buddha quote: "Holding on to anger is like grasping a hot coal with the intent of throwing it at someone else; you are the one who gets burned."  I just can't help it, though.  I feel like I hate them.  Maybe it will get better in time... .?

The best advice I can give you about your anger is to go NC with your parents.  The anger does hurt you and not them, and I think it's great that you want to let go of it!  You need time away from them so you can have some time to yourself, you deserve to have a break, and being healthy yourself will help you to raise a healthy child.  Cutting off all contact with them will give you time to relax and calm down both physically and emotionally.  You will become less emotional and be able to think objectively about the whole situation.  Being able to think logically will help you to gain clarity and figure out what you need to do to get better, and in time, your anger will begin to dissipate.

And I finally had to come to the realization in the past few years that I can't save my family and my childhood is over... .it happened.  It's done.  The story has been written and there is nothing I can do to change it.  But I CAN take control of the future and write the story for my own family!

This is wonderful--this kind of wisdom will continue to creep in during your recovery and become second nature.  You won't even have to think about it, you will live it and make healthy choices every day for the rest of your life.  I know it's hard now, but you are well on your way to recovery.  Give yourself time and keep posting and reading here. 

I picture her just trying to destroy me.  And I'm terrified.  It seems like a lot of the BPD moms on here that people talk about don't really care if their kids go NC.  But mine would care.  And she'd keep trying to get back in.  I feel like she won't just let it be.  Maybe that's what scares me?

I was terrified too when I sent my mom that letter.  It was very liberating for me to finally tell her the truth about how she abused me, but I didn't know what the outcome would be.  I imagined a letter would come in the mail, dripping with venom, or perhaps an angry phone call, but nothing happened.  I told her in the letter that I was NOT trying to hurt her, but I knew that was exactly how she would perceive it.  After I sent the letter, I felt guilty and afraid, which is exactly how she had groomed me to feel throughout my childhood.  Even if it is quite obvious that you are afraid because you are shaking like a leaf or your voice is quavering, you will stick to your guns and not allow her to use your fear to her advantage.  If an ugly confrontation does happen, remain calm and don't react with anger.  My rule of thumb is not to do or say anything that will make you ashamed of yourself later.  After a disagreement, I always like to be able to look my opponent in the eye, without shame.  It is possible to be assertive and firm without being mean and sarcastic.  Becoming aggressive and confrontational yourself will only throw fuel on her anger, not to mention it would be giving her EXACTLY what she wants.  People with BPD love drama, no matter how much they may deny it.  I'm still afraid of my mother too, that's why I have NC with her.  A nasty look or remark from her is something I'd rather not have to deal with.  She is my mother and always will be, and whether we like it or not, part of us will always yearn for our mother's approval. 

I know that I don't respond normally to criticism or conflict, but I can't seem to control it.  When we aren't arguing (like right now) it's really easy for me to look at how I react and say "hm -that's not normal."  But when I'm in the moment, I can't do anything to control it.  I just feel such strong emotions and I can't change how I am acting (even though I consciously try!).  It's weird - the nicer he is to me when we are arguing, sometimes the more angry it makes me!  I don't understand the way that I act/react and I know I need to go see a therapist to really work on it, but I just thought I'd mention it in case you've experienced something similar and have any advice.

I think seeing a counselor will help you immensely.  Make sure you are completely comfortable with him/her.  The clarity that you would gain by completely avoiding dysfunctional people would help you to look at stressful situations more objectively, and eventually you will find yourself thinking, rather than reacting right away.  Thinking first, before reacting, does wonders for your ability to stay calm and make good decisions.  My husband used to say "don't let your emotions overrule your reactions".  Logically, you already know the best way to handle criticism and conflict, but your emotions haven't caught up yet.  It's not something that you can force to happen, it WILL happen over time though as long as you avoid stress, and that means avoiding your parents.  You've always been the "peacekeeper" in the family, and that's how you are expected to remain, but you want to change that.  You shouldn't have to worry about peacekeeping, it should never have been your job in the first place.  Your parents are never going to grow up and learn how to keep the peace themselves, but that's NOT your problem.  By constantly "walking on eggshells" and anticipating what is expected of you, and worrying about keeping the peace, you are cluttering up your brain with things that really shouldn't be your concern at all, and it's harder to think that way.  It's never pleasant to endure criticism and conflict, but I often find that criticism directed towards me is simply not true at all, and it doesn't bother me because most of the time the person doing the criticism doesn't know all the facts, therefore they are wrong.  I'm confident in my ability to judge myself a lot more accurately than someone else can.  If I make a mistake, I own it and apologize for it.  My own good opinion is all I need to be able to live without shame, because I know what's right and what's wrong, and I will always do the best that I can in life and respect others.  Who could rightfully ask me for more than that?  When I find myself getting worked up about something, sometimes I'll suddenly realize that it's something that isn't a big deal at all, and a simple attitude adjustment makes me feel a great deal better. 

It makes me feel so much better to come onto these message boards and see so many other people that UNDERSTAND where I am coming from.  It really feels good to talk about this stuff with people that truly get it.

It certainly does.  When I first joined this group, I was thinking about my parents everyday, all day long.  That's no way to live, so it was great to be able to spend some time here everyday, because I found out that getting things off my chest here made me think of my parents MUCH less. 

Does anyone know if there are any support groups that actually meet in person anywhere in the country?  Similar to like what AA does?  I feel like that would be amazing.  I'd definitely go.

It would be fantastic to be able to join a support group for people who have mothers with BPD, but unfortunately, I don't know of anything like that where I live.  You could try attending an Al-Anon meeting, which is what I did for a while.  My father is an alcoholic.  If you have a family member or a friend with a drinking problem, you can attend.  If you can find a good therapist, perhaps he will be able to recommend something for you.  [/quote]

[chickadee]

Growing up, the only feelings that I was really allowed to express were the angry ones.  Yelling was a main form of communication.  Anything else (i.e. happy, sad, excited) were met with negative consequences and so I learned to hide those away.  I never learned how to appropriately deal with any of my emotions.

I had the opposite problem during my youth, I was not permitted to show any anger at all towards my parents or my golden-boy siblings (my mom was extremely protective of them because they have special needs, but that is a long story).  Showing anger towards my parents was perceived by them as insult, so I kept my anger bottled up inside, even though there was plenty for me to be angry about.  I was depressed throughout my entire childhood because anger that is not directed at the object that makes one angry is turned inward and absorbed into oneself, which is incredibly unhealthy and damaging.  My parents don't deal well with disapproval or criticism, perhaps because they were not allowed to show anger towards their own parents.  Only positive emotions like happiness and love were acceptable.  It is crucial for children to be able to express their true emotions, I don't know how to express that strongly enough.  Just because a child is angry with his/her parents, that doesn't mean he/she doesn't love them, but unfortunately, parents with PDs don't seem to understand this, so they get carried away by their own negative emotions, lashing out at their own kids.  I've always thought it was so hypocritical for my parents to be able to scream as much as they wanted to at me, but I wasn't allowed to yell back.  It was like this:  "do as I say, not as I do".  I can imagine how hard it must have been for you to grow up in a family where only anger was permitted, rather than love or any other kind of positive emotions.  That's sick, and I'm very sorry that you had to grow up that way.  Children need their parents to show them LOVE. 

I've been having a lot of trouble with my very emotional 4 year old son, mainly because I have difficulty with my own emotions, and I ran across this parenting technique called emotion coaching.  I use this technique with him, and I do a modified version for myself when I'm having issues.

I have never heard of emotion coaching.  I'll have to look that up because it sounds wonderful!

It's helped me to realize it's okay to have feelings, and constantly talking my son through his feelings gives me lots of practice.  I've had a lot better control of all my emotions since I've started doing this.

This is great!  There is a very good book called "When Your Child Drives You Crazy" by Eda LeShan.  It was the only book I ever needed to learn how to deal with my child's attitudes, emotions and behaviors, both the positive and the negative ones.  LeShan believes that when our children "drive us crazy", it happens because they are doing things that we were punished for when we were children, and for us, the children of unhealthy parents, this can be complicated.  Instead of providing step-by-step instructions for addressing behaviors that are undesirable, (and hard to remember in the heat of the moment), LeShan writes about the psychology of children's behavior.  Knowing WHY our kids do things we don't like helps us to understand the best way to correct their behavior.  According to LeShan, it is much harder to "spoil" children than we think.  I see parents trying to correct their children's behavior the way society expects them to all the time, and that's unfortunate.  While my son was growing up, we had a "no spanking" policy, which people would laugh at, but my husband and I are so proud of the way our son has turned out (he turns 21 next month).  Harsh discipline, like spanking and screaming, might provide quick results that work in our favor, but I would argue that there are long-term effects that make spanking not worth it.  It breaks my heart to see children being belittled by their parents---don't they remember what it was like to be a kid?   So many behaviors are things that children simply grow out of and don't require much discipline, and LeShan explains these things in her book.  The definition of the word discipline is "to teach", not "to punish", but so many parents out there just don't get it.  HELPING children with their emotions is the way to go, it really is the best way to solve so many problems, so I think that emotional coaching that you mentioned sounds like a great thing to do.  I would also suggest reading the book "When Your Child Drives You Crazy", it will most likely be the only book you will ever have to consult when it comes to parenting.  My child could be extremely emotional at times too---I couldn't even play a game like Candyland with him, because he would throw an enormous fit if he started to lose.  He is extremely competitive, but I actually consider that to be a good thing now.  Even though he is majoring in music education, he would love to be a performer as well as a teacher, and there is a lot of competition for seats in a first class orchestra, which is what he wants.

The other thing I started doing with my husband quite some time ago was I asked him to point out when I was shutting down or flying off the handle.  It would make me pause and it was often the turning point.

This is such a good idea too!  Flying off the handle is something I tend to do, because that's what my parents do.  The more time I spent away from them, the more I began to realize that most of the time when I'm about to fly of the handle, it's about something that just doesn't matter.  My husband helped me become more patient, because he has loads of patience himself, and what a good influence that has been on me.  He used to tell me that he doesn't like to get angry because it takes up too much energy, especially when it's about something that doesn't even matter if you really think about it. 

[StarStruck]

Hi chickadee -

Thank you so much for sharing again... .full and connective.

(Obviously very sad to hear the grief you have had to endure at the beginning of your journey  ... .to the LIGHT )

One important key to success with NC is the ability to accept that you will be sad about your broken relationship for the rest of your life.  You must be completely out of denial about the fact that your parent with BPD has never and will never love you unconditionally.  

This is what I have also found very important. I think it's of paramount importance to making the steps ahead.

I thought I should say something about forgiveness.  I'm not viciously angry towards my parents anymore...

This how I am, from the distance you feel sorry for the situation. The feeling of closure and understanding. They were damaged after all. Doesn't stop us for having to protect ourselves though. I think everyone on here is realizing, that is a different kettle of fish and not to get it mixed up... .ie Just because when one fully understands the relationship doesn't mean you should have one with them anymore.

(Name change, I was missful)

[chickadee]

Thank you so much for sharing again... .full and connective.

You're welcome Starstruck.  I always hope that something I say might help someone cope better with having family members with BPD.  What a heartbreaking situation it is for everyone involved. 

This how I am, from the distance you feel sorry for the situation. The feeling of closure and understanding. They were damaged after all. Doesn't stop us for having to protect ourselves though. I think everyone on here is realizing, that is a different kettle of fish and not to get it mixed up... .ie Just because when one fully understands the relationship doesn't mean you should have one with them anymore.

This is very insightful---yes, our parents were damaged, which is why I don't like to look at pictures of my parents when they were kids.  The pity I feel for them is too depressing, they were babies once too and they suffered horribly like we did, but that doesn't excuse them from doing the same damage to us.  They had choices, no one forced them to abuse us. 

(Name change, I was missful)

I like your new name!

[StarStruck]

chickadee !

I always hope that something I say might help someone cope better with having family members with BPD.  What a heartbreaking situation it is for everyone involved.

I think your words & understanding are very welcome to many people here. Your wealth of experience in understanding, this complex 'thing' does show. (Yes I Am going to call it a 'thing'!  )

(Name change, I was missful)

I like your new name!

Cheers chickadee! 

[Sitara]

I have never heard of emotion coaching.  I'll have to look that up because it sounds wonderful!

The basic idea is to help the child realize what they're feeling, that it's okay, and how to deal with it, which is super hard when you never learned to do this for yourself!  It's been really helpful for him though, as before he was throwing a bunch of out of control tantrums, but most of the time now he comes up to me and says, "I'm sad because you told me to turn off the tv."  I try and do the same thing for me.  "I'm sad because I'll never have the loving family I wanted."  It is okay to have feelings!

There is a very good book called "When Your Child Drives You Crazy" by Eda LeShan.  It was the only book I ever needed to learn how to deal with my child's attitudes, emotions and behaviors, both the positive and the negative ones.  LeShan believes that when our children "drive us crazy", it happens because they are doing things that we were punished for when we were children, and for us, the children of unhealthy parents, this can be complicated.

I'll have to check it out!  I struggle with the feeling of how to raise kids when you didn't have a good example.  And that's a really interesting theory.  I could see it.

Sorry this veered a little off topic.  Like in your original post lauren2013, my mom's actions towards my kids were the reason I realized changes needed to happen.  And I do believe that people with BPD are emotionally stuck - my mom acts like my 4 year old sometimes (complete with temper tantrums with throwing objects) - so I've found learning to deal with one helps with the other.  (And probably why I find my 4 year old so frustrating sometimes.)

Keep learning and healing yourself!  We all deserve to be happy and respected.