Drugs and BPD

[Someday . . .]

My husband and I have been feeling that our dd25 has been more emotionally stable the last couple of months (due to her and her boyfriends relationship being more stable).  Unfortunately, I'm beginning to feel that she has been starting to do drugs again.  She has a history of substance abuse.  She maybe goes out once or twice a week and comes home drunk, she smokes pot daily (she says for pain), takes somas for pain (I give them to her as prescribed as I don't trust her to take them according to RX), and as of now I feel that she is doing more drugs than what I just mentioned.   My husband feels that dd needs to find something to do to get her mind off drugs.  I feel that she is unable to do anything as it has been 10 years of her trying to do anything and she can't.  Husband and I have been through this before where we have drug tested her.  My dd feels that that helped her curb addictions - husband does not believe her.  Husband is sick and tired of her with drugs and at this point in time feels that she will do them whether we want her to or not.  My feeling is that whenever we have done the drug testing and have a zero drug tolerance that it really has helped.  She was actually ready and willing to see a psychologist that she did VERY well with before, but after dd not showing up for the first two appts., dd says that she is 'fine' and was only going to see the psychologist because of us.  What's interesting is that ALL self harm is showing up these days:  substance abuse, eating disorder, and cutting, not to mention that she is now becoming addicted to cigarettes also.   So my question is:  I don't know where to draw the line with the substance abuse . . first problem is that my husband and I have been on very different pages when it comes to what we do in all aspects of dd's life.  My dd has said that the reason that she is not a raging drug addict is that she feels that she has too much to lose (meaning a supportive family). . yet, the couple of times that I have been to Nar-anon I believe that their philosophy is not to be an enabler, which I feel that my husband and I are being with us knowing about the drinking and pot - yet my husband feels that if she does anything harder than that then she is relagated to the motor home or a very small room in the backyard.   We made our daughter stay in the motor home one time before and it was so very, very, very, hard for her (if it happens again I can definitely see some serious cutting or a suicide attempt).

I feel like I'm rambling here.    I have thought out so many different case scenarios and none are half way ok.   Dd has had some serious DBT treatment (McLean, Silver Hill and a great therapist where we live) and refuses to get back in touch with the skills.  Does anyone have any insights, thoughts concerning how hard we come down when she is so seriously mentally ill?  Does having BPD make a difference on how you treat the drug addiction . . do we show more compassion?   not rescue her?  see how far down she goes before she asks for help (I feel that her bottom line is suicide - not asking for help)?

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[Someday . . .]

So, to clarify, do you treat someone with a drug addiction differently than someone with a drug addiction AND BPD?  What would that difference look like?

[hopeangel]

Hi Someday!

I don't know the answer to this, I hope someone else does, but just wanted to offer a fellow struggler some empathy! 

[Someday . . .]

Thanks Hopeangel!  I appreciate the support   

[Kate4queen]

With all due respect it sounds like you and your DH care more about her drug addiction and fixing it than she does. What' we've found with our son is that the more we tried to help the more he waited for us to fix things and the less he took on the responsibility for himself.

My son was also heavily into pot, god knows what else and addicted to pain killers. When we were unable to offer him any more health insurance to get those drugs he actually managed to wean himself off most of them because he had no choice. I'm constantly surprised by how much he can deal with when we've stepped back and let him. And yes. we agonized over every decision to do that.

From what I read your dd has no reason to stop her behaviors really does she? I think you need to protect yourselves, set house rules about what you are okay with and follow through and if that means she doesn't get to live in your house or is in the motor home then that's what you do.

It's hard to do this to our kids.

[Kimmy b123]

  and prayers I know this is diffucult

[Someday . . .]

Kate4queen, this is exactly what I need to hear - thanks!

[BioAdoptMom3]

I wish I could offer some helpful advice, but we have not been down this road with our BPD DD14, at least not yet.  However from one BPD mom to another I can offer my support, my  , my   and my prayers!

[crumblingdad]

I don't know the answer either but have had a lot of experience with our DD16 and addiction as she is a recovering heroin addict (and has had benzo issues, molly use, marijuana use, alcohol and most anything you can think of) and recently went into recovery at a dual diagnosis RTC.

BPD sucks and adding addiction into it is so complicated and heart breaking, at least from what we've been through. For myself the last year has felt like a giant vacuum sucking our DD16 as well as her entire family away into this lifeless hole of pain waiting for the call that they've finally killed themselves.

I will say that much of the program our DD is in is both DBT and 12-step based and they've encouraged us to start attending Al-Anon and get involved in 12-step as well as the DBT side of things which we already had been learning.  I think their family counseling is teaching us to set the boundaries and not try to control the drug abuse because we can't and we won't ever be able to.  Despite the BPD, our DD must do this by her own choice and we can only support her without enabling.    Keep in mind, you're hearing this from a 6'2" 240lb scary looking Dad of a 16 year old daughter who has tried to find ways to "fix" and stop the drug use by scaring dealers and boyfriends away, by staking out their homes, ratting out dealers to police and getting them arrested with my info, sending social media messages through facebook and other means to stay away from her, etc.  So... .stepping back, taking things one day at a time, letting things take their course, and detaching with love is not exactly an easy, natural thing for me.   

So my gut says right now we are preparing to set boundaries where we will detach with love if she chooses to relapse with very strict boundaries.  She will, indeed, have to make her own choices and if drugs are that choice she will be on her own if she chooses to use again.  We will always continue to love and support her if she chooses to get help and/or stay clean but should she choose to continue using and relapse when she gets out we must let go and let her make her own choices and face those consequences, and yes, that may lead to her death.

I think really that's how 12 step programs approach any drug addict and from what we've learned from the staff at her facility it seems despite her BPD we must handle it very similarly.  When we are getting help, being strong, and detaching we are a greater support in them recovering from addiction (with or without BPD) then when we are not. (or so that's the message I've been getting from all the professionals involved in our daughters recovery)

Again, I know it's not an answer but hopefully gives you some insight.  Hope things improve and thoughts and prayers are with you and your family.

[Someday . . .]

Crumbling Dad, I know that you've been through a lot (our stories are similar, your daughter started at a much younger age though).   I appreciate the thoughtful reply and truly, this is what I need to hear.  Thank you for sharing your experience and thoughts - it is greatly appreciated!

[Thursday]

Hi someday... .

I hope a few of my own experiences with BPD and drug addiction can help you. I am referring to my BPDSD22 who was discovered to be an addict (benzos) when she was 19. We knew she was smoking pot and drinking, knew she was doing miserably with her life but until she got into a jam and couldn't get to her dealer, we had no idea of the extent of her dependence on benzos (the class of drug that includes Xanax and other anti-anxiety RXs). She had a grand-mal seizure and dropped to the floor in a retail store.

Once we knew we got her into an IOP (intensive outpatient program) which she didn't adhere to. It included going to AA meetings but she didn't buy into that either- the main reason (other than her not being ready to get the help and make the changes) was that she didn't want to give up smoking pot. We used to have a "wish she didn't but it could be worse" attitude about pot. In an addicts situation, substance abuse is substance abuse. Pot for her is a gateway. She doesn't have what others have when it comes to saying NO to other drugs... .when her pot dealer showed her pills she said yes, then yes again and soon she was far more interested in the total zone-out of Xanax than in getting a little buzzed from pot smoking. Nothing in moderation. NOTHING!

After about six weeks of wasted time she was done with the first IOP and quickly amped up the drug use. However, she was afraid to take the Xanax because the seizure really scared her so she started taking opioids ( another class of drug... .oxycontin, percoset, heroin, morphine... .she was abusing the pills hydrocodone and oxycontin) and I guess she was quickly increasing her dosage and for some blessed reason, she got scared and confessed and asked for another IOP. Her IOP counselor told her Dad and me that another IOP would do her no good so long as she was living under our roof. Her Dad was an enabler. Thankfully my husband (DD's Dad) decided he had enough worry over her and we checked her into a sober house.

She was the one who decided to be sober, to work her AA program. She hasn't by any stretch of the imagination conquered her personality disorder but now that she is sober she can do so many more things to keep herself regulated. Since she doesn't live with us, we don't see her rages. Every so often I see that she has been cutting again, see bruises on her hands (she punches walls when she is raging) so I know she still has issues. She doesn't manage her life very well but you know? A lot of people don't manage their lives very well. She is functioning at a very low level but not getting into trouble. She is kind of ok these days. Not holding my breath or kidding myself but she is working and maintaining her relationship with her grandmother with whom she lives.

Having seen what AA has done for her (gives her a simple program to follow... .for her not too deep, simply one day at a time staying sober... .she loves her AA life, the sense of community that is hers for the taking as long as she is sober, nobody can kick her out. If someone in AA doesn't like her, well, wait a day and someone new joins and she mentors them and shows them around and they are a new friend)

The issues of her BPD are so much more manageable than her addictions. Totally no chance of her working on her personality disorder issues when she is high.

Right now she has an issue with her sleep. She lost a job two years ago from over sleeping. She did it once and was warned then again within a week and never called in. They fired her. She sat on her butt and mooched off of anyone and everyone for over a year and recently found a new job. She makes great money (food industry) but recently she overslept and was chastised by her manager. She is still making the same dysfunctional choices as before (she will stay up all night to avoid oversleeping in the morning!) and  she may end up getting fired from this job too. However, if she was high, she wouldn't have the job at all.

I'm sure the dual diagnoses programs are the best but I wanted you to see that a pwBPD on drugs is far worse than a BPD dealing with the issues and aftermaths of their disorder whilst sober. My SD doesn't see that she has a mental illness. She does see that she is an addict. She sees now, through listening to folks at AA tell their stories, where her addiction could have lead her. I'm certain she has embellished her addiction story... .sure if we heard her tell it we would wonder "when did THAT happen?" but really, this sense of belonging with her AA folks is what keeps her sober and little by little she hears things that help her. And they key component here... .she hears them from someone other than her parents. She hears things from people she knows have been at the bottom and she knows she doesn't want to go there.

The biggest tool we have in OUR toolbox now is her understanding that we won't enable her. She can't come to us for money or shelter or to be saved. She understands now that she makes her own messes. She still makes them too! She understands now though, that we won't clean them up. We are always there for her to listen, to ask questions about her plans and how she will follow through. We are also here for her to celebrate her victories and accomplishments. AA gives her a chip whenever she passes another anniversary of sobriety so there is always something to applaud in a group setting. This is very important to her.

Her Dad still sometimes pokes his nose in too far. He really tries though. And AA has shown her that she was yanking us around when she was in her addiction. So many of her AA people have lost their families and SD doesn't want to go so far that this happens to her too. She is very needy this way.

I also suggest Al-anon for you and your husband. It will help you! Even if your daughter runs from sobriety. I hope that won't be the case but do try three or four meetings (all the same or different groups) and see what you think.

Best wishes for you with this difficult situation!

thursday

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[Someday . . .]

Thursday - thanks for the detailed reply!   The part about 'it's only pot' is certainly where we are and have been, she's been addicted to the benzos, opiates, etc. . .AND also doesn't see the sense in staying clean and sober.  She swears that the addictive meds are the only thing that helps. . . your story really hit home.   My main reason for being an enabler is if I look into the future (of course I have a crystal ball - not!), I feel that without the drugs that she wouldn't see her way out except for death.   I realize that most parents of addicts probably have felt the same way, so that does give me some solace, knowing that others have felt the same way and their kid is now in recovery.  So I need to take that big first step and pray that all does not fall apart.

Thanks again for your story.

[peaceplease]

Someday,

 Another mom of an addict here.  IMO, all addicts have an underlying disorder, and the addiction is secondary.  I believe that all rehabs should be a dual diagnosis.  So, to answer your question, do you treat a person with BPD differently for drug addiction?  I would say, no.

Currently, my daughter is in methadone treatment for opiate addiction.  Her underlying disorder has not been addressed.  I believe that my daughter will always turn to drugs as a coping skill until her primary illness is treated. 

Prayers for you, husband, and your daughter.

peaceplease

[Someday . . .]

Peaceplease,  I absolutely agree.  I feel that anyone who has a drug or alcohol addiction must have an underlying issue that has not been dealt with.  I feel anyone who is emotionally healthy really would not go down the path of an addiction, (also my humble opinion AND I feel that there is an exception to every rule).  Thanks for the reply!

[lbjnltx]

Dear Someday,

I understand the fears you have for your daughter.  I am so very sorry that you wake each morning and have to go through the day with this fear,  it is hard and can take a toll on you mentally, emotionally and physically.  Please do learn the skills that can help you stay solidly grounded.

The drugs are used to escape the pain she lives with, in a sad way this is a coping mechanism for her.  When she can stay sober long enough to learn a high level skill to replace the need for the drugs she has a better chance of improving her life and continuing in  sobriety.  The AA/NA programs provide support, kinship, and accountability.  When these basic needs are met by people outside of the interpersonal relationship they can be more easily accepted.  It may also be true that with time the family can also provide these basic needs in her life.

Setting  boundaries based on our family values is how we remain true to self, protect self and hold our children accountable with compassion.  While we are not responsible for others thoughts/feelings/actions we are responsible to others.  We have a responsibility to provide honest support and love.  It is not an act of love to enable, ignore unhealthy behaviors, or give up on our children.  When we provide opportunities and let go of the outcome compassionately we are using the highest  level of skills.  When we invest in ourselves by learning and consistently practicing these skills we model the behaviors/choices we ask of our beloved children.  Ultimately Someday... .this is all we can do.  When our children choose the same path we rejoice... .when they don't choose the same path we have the skills ourselves to cope with our pain.

Asking ourselves what we feel and what we need helps us identify the skills deficit we live under.  This sounds simple and it is not.  The irony here is that our children have the same skills deficits that we do... .so... .first learn that which you wish your daughter to learn... .show her how it is done by doing it yourself.  The members here will be your support, kinship, and accountability.  Seek further help through AA/NA and counseling too if you have access... .

it is what you would want your daughter to do.

With much love and hope... .

lbj

[ConflictedxAMillion]

Someday... .my daughter's story is very similar to Crumblingdad's, except my BPDd is 21 years old and not in any treatment of any kind (although counselors were the norm before age 18).  We knew she was little different at age 8.  She started getting into serious trouble at 14.  She's a heroin addict, a tobacco addict, a pot addict, also into benzos when she can get her hands on them, and will buy suboxen off the street if she can.

I SOO agree with peaceplease in the view that there is an underlying problem (BPD-and all issues associated with BPD) and that HAS to be addressed either first or ideally in tandem.

I agree with the others that you have to "let go" and put in place the boundaries you decide upon, not just for the drugs but for all the other behaviors too.  In my case - I've been "forced" to let go - as my DD up and moved to Texas with her boyfriend to live with the boyfriend's parents for a while - to start over (good thing because she was going to get into serious trouble here - constantly stealing - stealing excalated to shoplifting and stealing cash from the local bowling alley and breaking into my parents and stealing money).

So I can only hope that this is what she is truly doing - although I do have my doubts. As again I agree with Peaceplease and feel that she will constantly turn to drugs/alcohol when she's bored, missing home, upset and depressed, etc.

I've come to terms that I can't control her, I can only hope and pray things will get better for her and offer support to her emotionally to help her someday attain that goal.

Good luck to you and your family.  It's extremely hard on a marriage.  Try to keep some perspective on that relationship without everything evolving around your daughter.  It's easier said than done I know for sure.  But giving that relationship the time and energy to keep it healthy, will help you in the relationship with your daughter.