family therapy

[co.jo]

I have a 26 year old BPD daughter living in Quebec. The rest of our family is here in BC. Because of the trauma caused by their sister throughout the years, 2 out of 4 siblings have cut her out of their life. Because she says I have not done enough to force her siblings to accept her, and she says it is too painful to be reminded of their rejection, she has now cut me and the other 2 siblings off as well. she is very high- functioning, successful at university and work. My last hope is that someone would be willing to do some telephone or online family work with the siblings and her to try and mend our family. I emailed her therapist to see if he would be willing, but he did not respond.

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[Hazelrah]

Hello co.jo, and 

I'm sorry to hear about the troubles your family is currently experiencing in relation to your BPD daughter.  Many of us know how difficult it can be to relate to the borderlines in our lives--their emotions can often lead them to alienate their loved ones, leaving the rest of the family sad and confused.  Please know you've come to a place with great resources and people who can understand just what you're going through.

When a child suffers from BPD (even our adult child), not only is the child unhappy and unhealthy, but often, so is everyone who loves them. This mental illness can severely affect everyone, creating drama and heartbreak, while also piling on the guilt and anxiety. The good news is that there are answers to these problems, and we are here to offer you the support and encouragement to help you find them. You'll see that there are things that can be done to stop making things worse and begin to make them better. A great place to start is with this set of resources: What can a parent do?.  You might also want to check out: Parenting a son or daughter suffering from BPD board.

Please share more of your story with us when you're comfortable co.jo.  If you need any help navigating the sight, don't hesitate to ask.

[Rapt Reader]

Hi, co.jo, and I'd like to join Hazelrah in welcoming you to this site. There are many parents posting here, and lots of us will know exactly what you are going through with your daughter. Now that you are on the Parenting Board, check on the right-hand margin, and you will see many links under TOOLS and THE LESSONS, and they will give you a wonderful understanding of BPD.

Many of us here have found that once we understand how our loved one's mind works, and how to communicate with them in a way that doesn't push every one of their buttons, things actually start to get better in our relationships with them. I do encourage you to check them out... .

As far as Family Therapy by phone or email, there may be therapists that employ that practice; I hope that others who have familiarity with that will chime in and tell you more. In my own case, with my BPD son (who is 36), every one of his Doctors, Therapists and his Psychiatrist have spoken with me--separately and together with him--and they will take my phone calls and emails and get back to me. But, he has signed release forms allowing that to happen, so it works for us.

I hope you keep posting your story, asking your questions, and reading all you can around here... .As far as your daughter goes, I'm wondering if you actually talked to her to see if she would give permission to her therapist to talk to you, would she agree to that do you think? If she is wanting a relationship with her siblings, you could suggest that if she allowed her therapist to do that, it could help?

I know you say she's angry at you right now, but if you contacted her using the communication skills to the right-hand margin under TOOLS, maybe you could help her get to that place of allowing it... .Here's a Validation technique called S.E.T. that you could use:

S.=Support: ":)aughter (her name), I know that you are very sad and upset that your siblings haven't been as warm and loving to you as you would like them to be. "

E.=Empathy: "It must be very painful to want a warm relationship with your family, but finding it to be not available to you. Anyone in your position would feel that way, and it really is hard to have to deal with that."

T.=Truth:: "I know you feel that I should have done more to make that relationship with your siblings get better... .The truth is that there was nothing I could do to "make" them be the way you want them to be; I cannot change anyone but myself, and I would like to try to make this relationship work. I would talk to your Therapist if you would give the permission for them to do so, to learn how to make things better between us... .And if you would like, maybe eventually your Therapist could talk to your siblings and we could come together as a family the way you would like. Is that possible? I would love to make things better between this family, the way you would like it to be... ."

This is just an example of how the S.E.T. technique of Validation and Communication works, and how to apply it to a real situation. You, of course, know your daughter and your situation better than I do, so you would edit it to your own particular needs. Anyhow, I'm VERY glad you found us, and keep posting your story and asking your questions--and read every link to the right of this page. It really will help! 

[mary93]

  CoJo I also live in Quebec (Montreal to be exact) so I dont know if your daughter lives in Montreal or Quebec city (although you did mention university and I am judging by your writing style that you are not francophone, correct me if I'm wrong and no English universities in Quebec city). Is your daughter receiving any therapy here? The reason I ask is I do know of some if you are interested just let me know. I don't know if we can private message here or not, if you dont want to speak openly (although no secrets here I presume on this board). I also have a 20 year old daughter with BPD and its a heavy burden to handle. Let me know if I can help with anything since I am in the same province and perhaps the same city. 

[co.jo]

Thanks, Rapt reader. I am familiar with many of the tools after much reading, but I hadn't specifically applied them to this situation. I will try that in an email, it is my only way to contact her at this point.

Mary93 my daughter is seeing a therapist in Montreal, (you were right, I am Anglophone, she goes to Concordia). He is supposed to be a specialist in BPD, but I have never had any therapist contact me, although I did email him when she first started suggesting he could. So I assume she doesn't want me to talk to him, she has portrayed herself as an innocent victim of childhood abuse, and now he thinks she has PTSD. I would imagine she might be afraid he would get a different picture talking to me. I would be interested in the names of any therapists you have found useful, in case she wants a change and is ever speaking to me again.

Thanks for your help.

[mary93]

Hi Cojo. The Royal Victoria hospital has a wonderful borderline clinic, and it is run by Dr Joel Paris, who has done extensive work and research in the field and travels the world for this. I also happen to know him personally and can guarantee he is great. If you want the number let me know I will give it to you. This clinic does individual and group therapy for the borderlines. I myself am doing individual and group therapy elsewhere (as the Royal Vic is dealing with the borderlines themselves, I think at some point it is possible for the family to get involved but not there yet and not 100% sure on that) I myself do individual and group therapy and will be starting a 12 week borderline workshop in January to learn things on how to deal and interact with a borderline. I love the group therapy as we see that we are not alone and that there is hope for the future. I do all this in the public system, not for lack of $$, but because for this issue I feel more confident in the public system as opposed to private. I dont know if your daughter is an out of province student or has taken up residence here, but I'm sure they take insurance if she does not have a medicare card. I guess from reading the posts here and there on this board you might understand that your daughter is alienating the ones she loves the most and it has nothing to do with you, it is the disorder. You mention the therapist not getting back to you, I would have been surprised had he got back to you as she is of legal age and they are pretty strict on that. Also portraying herself as an innocent victim of child abuse, well any therapist who is qualified and specializes in BPD, knows that this is what they do, they tarnish their loved ones, so by any chance if he is believing this... .Don't worry she will reach out to you again as she does love you, its the disorder that is behind the alienation. I am also estranged from my daughter (she is still in the same city) but has gone to live with her dad as she can manipulate him the way she wants to. Sometimes she will text me, and other times she will ignore me for weeks on end no matter what I do and then out of the blue I get a text "hi whats up", like she had been speaking to me all along My daughter is at Mcgill and Concordia was my university back in the day There are also crisis centers here in case she ever needs it if she was having problems (depending on which area she lives in, as you go to the ones that is in your area, if ever needed (i hope not, but just in case) private message me and I can tell you the one I went to and they are pretty good with borderline issues as my daughter went and I went for 9 sessions (as these sessions are limited as its for crisis situations). Feel free to reach out if you need anything/info etc and I can try and hook you up it would be my pleasure. Please take good care of yourself as it is very hard on us parents and we need to be strong for when they will need us and believe me they will need us at some point.   

[co.jo]

So I wrote an email using SET. This morning I got a response that says the reason she has cut me out of her life is because of my abuse of her when she was young, and staying with her dad who abused her and her brother. Apparently this has caused her PTSD, severe anxiety, suicidal thoughts, as well as abandonment and trust issues from being in foster care. While it is true that in her younger years she did get spanked in a desperate and inappropriate attempt to control her behavior, and there was violence in response to hers e.g. trying to restrain her when she was raging, the picture she is painting is inaccurate.She lived in foster care for 4 years due to her violence .

She claims I have never taken responsibility for my actions, yet on more than one occasion I have tried to listen openly, without defenses, and acknowledged that my behavior was sometimes inappropriate. I don't think she remembers these conversations.

What concerns me is that she is in therapy with a supposed bPD therapist ( who she says cannot mediate our family as he is her advocate), and it would appear that between the two of them they have gone from her having BPD to this other idea of her as an abused child, which she has embraced fully. So, where do we go from here?

[co.jo]

Also, what does cD beside my post mean?

[mary93]

Wow Cojo, I feel for you. I just got back from therapy with a specialist of 22 years in the field of BPD (she does not treat the borderlines, just the families). I like your use of the word "supposed" BPD therapist, as she doesn't seem to fully grasp what a borderline will might or might not say or make up, according to what you are saying. Im starting my workshop in January like I had mentioned before and I dont know if you have this available to you in BC but the therapist today told me that is what will help me the most, as we have to learn how to deal with a BPD. Sounds like she was borderline from a very young age from what you write (and I have come to realize that my daughter was borderline from a young age with all the reading/groups and therapy I am doing, so alot of my daughters behavior from a young age was borderline) unfortunately they refuse to diagnose BPD before 18 years of age here. Was she ever officially diagnosed BPD , and if so was it a psychiatrist who diagnosed her? All her symptoms,(anxiety, suicidal thoughts are also typical borderline symptoms) My 2 cents, do some therapy or group for yourself, before even thinking of family mediation, as if shes thinking like she is, right now I dont think it would really help and also if her therapist is edging her on in this way of thinking, for right now , I doubt anything will work. She needs her therapy (group and individual are the best) and if you could get some help on how to deal with this "what seems to be impossible" disorder, that would be great. I am kind of in the same boat as you, as my daughters father seems to think that rewarding a BPD with $$ /trips/cars etc is the way to go as he cant seem to face reality, so for now he is not helping the situation at all, as the worst thing to do is give them everything and set no limits. :'( :'( :'(

[peaceplease]

co.jo,

  Welcome to the parents board.  To answer your question - CD means child with BPD. 

I am sorry that the therapist is seeing your dd as an abuse case.  I would think that a properly trained therapist should no there is another side to the story.  I know what my dd shares with her case manager is not really the whole picture.  And, her case manager has crossed professinal boundaries, and is more of a friend to my dd, now.  I believe the case manager has her own issues.  My dd told me that she is in serious credit card debt, and her dh knows nothing about it.  Why would my dd, a client, even know about her business?  Geesh? 

I wish that my dd could find a therapist that specialized in BPD.  But, she is not very compliant with therapy, anyways.  She will go two or three times, then quit. 

I would suggest getting into therapy for yourself if that is feasable.  I think anyone dealing with a loved one with BPD should go through therapy.  It really helps. 

peaceplease

[co.jo]

Thanks for the support- unfortunately I don't know of any support group or therapist specializing  in BPD anywhere near, so I am on my own. That is why I was originally looking for someone willing to do something by phone or online.

Wish I could contact her therapist, but I guess there is no point.

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[mary93]

Hello Cojo, have you tried contacting the teaching hospitals in your area, as they might be able to help you with finding someone who specializes in BPD? I did an online search and Vancouver (seems to me that you mentioned you were in BC, unless you are in a remote area) seems to have a lot going on with BPD, there are groups etc. Her therapist, that will not happen I am almost sure, especially here in Quebec, they are pretty strict with that kind of stuff, as from the age of 14 (yes 14) they will not disclose anything to parents unless they have the authorization from the child, so after 18 it probably wont happen, as that opens them up to lawsuits etc (especially since borderlines have a tendency to "stretch" the truth, your daughter could turn around and say she never gave authorization (unless it was written), but I find they just avoid any potential hassle by not dealing with the parents. Also, from what I have seen in my own daughter and others, not a good idea for us to be in their affairs, as it does not help the disorder, its better that we wait for them to come to us and ask us if we want to be included. Hope yopu find something in your area as it really does help.

[co.jo]

Thanks for trying Mary- I am an hour's drive from Victoria, and I have not seen anything useful there, but I have a couple of contacts I am going to check with there to see if they know anyone. I am really struggling not to email the therapist and tell him he is doing her a disservice. I am a foster parent and I see children of abuse. Believe me, they don't act like her, they are afraid to misbehave. Of course all the symptoms she names are symptoms of BPD, and he should get that. If she is telling me the truth, that he thinks she has PTSD, and I think she is. I know he can't answer me, but I would like to make him think.

Now, do I send her Christmas gifts or not?

[mary93]

CoJo, when you figure out about the xmas gift, please let me know, as I am asking myself the same question? Perhaps some others on the board will see this and answer, because I am really on the fence about this, dont know either if I should or should not. Will it even be appreciated or will it be disguarded like yesterdays trash, and if that's the case I'd rather give a gift to someone who would really be happy to get one and perhaps wont be getting any.  I understand the BPD and all and its a horrible disorder, but can it be constantly used for an excuse for everything is what I am wondering? As sometimes I think our kids might "push it" a little? This whole disorder is a real problem, as we parents have to think and rethink every little thing as to not "trigger" our BPD children (even if they are adults they are still our kids 

[jellibeans]

Wanted to just add that I do believe it is correct for her therapist to remain solely her therapist. I am going through something kind of similar with my daughter's therapist and I have to agree that my daughter needs a safe place to be able to discuss her issues freely and without judgement from me. I know she paints herself as the victim at times etc but I am pretty sure the therapist can see through some of these stories etc. I really have no concern regarding the true story or who is telling the truth... .I think it is more important that she have a therapist she can trust and hopefully in time she will open up and really deal with her problems so I would not try and involve her therapist with the discussion. Our family has a family therapist and that is where we discuss problems we are all having with one another. I can see how it is a problem for you being so far away. I am not sure how you repair a relationship with that kind of distance.

As far as xmas gifts... .I would send a gift. Don't try and anticipate what she will do with it. Just send it like you send one to all of your children and maybe this would be a good opportunity to write a note. Have you read Overcoming BPD by Valerie Porr? This is a good book to read and in it it talks about writing an "I'm sorry letter" I think what I have learned more than ever when it comes to pwBPD is that I really only have control over myself. I know I have not always done things right but I have always tried my best but I realize that simply acknowledging my short comings to her has meant a lot. It has stopped the who's right and who's wrong mentality. That is a waste of energy and time. Do what you can to improve the relationship and that might open her heart to you.

[co.jo]

Thanks for the advice- you are right about the therapist of course. My concern was not over what was true, but that the support for the PTSD diagnosis was alienating her from her family even more. I did interfere one last time , and let the therapist know my opinion, that the diagnosis was not useful.  Now I will let it go .I do not think there is anything I can do to re-unite our family at this point, so I will let that go too.

Thanks for the book recommendation, I think that sounds useful, so I will add it to the collection.

I didn't want to send her Christmas gifts and have them returned to me, or find that they fuelled the fire, so I emailed her to ask her what she would like, and told her this was not a loaded question, whatever she decided was fine with me. If she doesn't answer, I will go ahead and send them.

Thanks again, I appreciate the point  of view.