Do they respect u more if...

[nyfit1]

I read somewhere that people with BPD respect u more and have a stronger desire to want you back if u break up with them and stay away. My ex BPD gf always bragged about how guys always came back to her. I was guilty of that several times but I have stayed away from her since we broke up in October. I work with her and I still manage not to go near her. I thought she hated me cause she avoids me just as much but I recently spoke to her din and he said I am still the only person she values even more than her kids. He said she thinks I'm ignoring her so she's going the same back to me. This after she always accused me of pulling her back into the relationship. What do u think?

[nyfit1]

Want to clarify that I spoke to her son

[Turkish]

I read somewhere that people with BPD respect u more and have a stronger desire to want you back if u break up with them and stay away. My ex BPD gf always bragged about how guys always came back to her. I was guilty of that several times but I have stayed away from her since we broke up in October. I work with her and I still manage not to go near her. I thought she hated me cause she avoids me just as much but I recently spoke to her din and he said I am still the only person she values even more than her kids. He said she thinks I'm ignoring her so she's going the same back to me. This after she always accused me of pulling her back into the relationship. What do u think?

A relationship is two people, which a BPD sufferer does not realize on an emotional level. What I think is why be with someone who constantly plays these games of manipulation and projection? Keep your boundaries strong, as it sounds like it is working, but I also sense some desire to try again?

[seeking balance]

BPD is not really a respect issue - it is maladaptive coping skills to intimate interpersonal relationships.

In general, all people respect people who are not doormats - don't you think?

[nyfit1]

Oh don't worry Turkish. There is no way in hell I want to go back or will even talk to her again. Just curious about the whole game

[strikeforce]

IMO yes.

Mine valued me more and tried to get back if I went NC and acted as if I was moving on without a care in the world.

[GlennT]

I have actually done an experiment with this, to see if it was true. These are my results, after 5 yrs apart, via email only : I did strict NC for the first three years, while she made contact every way she could, every 1-3 months. Then, after 3.5 yrs, I broke NC and said a few sentences, then, told her not to contact me anymore. She then went NC for about 1 yr. After 1 yr. she sent me another overt recycle attempt calling me a prince, blah blah. I replied with only one curse word via email, which made her so upset, she could'nt sleep all night emailing me. I remained radio silent while still receiving 2 birthday messages last June. Then, 2 months ago, she blew up my face book page, everyday, with everyone, and everything, after I started an account, only because I  peeked at hers, without  saying anything. So... I tried something different, and I wrote her just a short romantic poem there, then, she blocked me and disappeared! . So, that is the end of my 5 yr long experiment/game.    

[strikeforce]

Push them away, they will want you like no other.

Chase after them, they will disappear.

[ShadowDancer]

I don't believe we can give a pat answer to such a generic question. Some will and some wont. I depends on all the persons involved. One must remember these folks have been living with a life long disorder. The word "living" should stand out to all of us on the receiving end of this issue. We lived it while they are living it. Two very separate personal experiences.

Being as they have proven themselves to be creatures of observation and experiences they are certainly not automatons that follow a scripted predetermined program. We would be wise to consider them as complex adapting and evolving creatures of their various core traumas. The strategies utilized will depend on the conditions and the potential opportunities presented. They are indeed human of perhaps a different sort, but still reasoning beings adapting to whatever and however a situation presents itself to them.

A good example would be the non borderline setting forth a clear boundary of non communication at relationship terminus and sticking to it by example of action would be a significant other whom to the BPD reasoning and experience would likely not be pursued because as a creature of observation and of past experiences this disordered person knows full well who is recyclable and who is not. And a person with a clear boundary is not a good "bet" for further validation.

I have observed most recycles are invited by both parties by a lack of clear boundaries by both involved.

Disordered they may be. Stupid they are not.  

[bpdspell]

I think there's some truth to them wanting what they cannot have but the reality is even when they have it they screw it up due to their disordered thinking so it's a lose lose situation.

I broke up with my ex and never contacted him again but there are reengagement attempts on his part all the time and it's been almost three years.

Like Turkish said there's no "we" in a BPD relationship only "I" and "me" and that's no life to live; that's torture and misery. It's why I never looked back even when my heart betrayed my mind when it came to missing my ex. The grieving is painful but it is so worth it once we get over the hump.

Our exes are human and just like all humans... .rejection hurts... .and the thought of loss is excruciatingly painful to our mentally ill exes because that loss of control is shattering to their already unstable sense of themselves.

Spell

[Ironmanrises]

We suffer the ultimate in disrespect when we allow the pwBPD to emotionally abuse us(me included). What makes you think after such a sh¥tload of disrespect that is aimed only at the person they are in an intimate relationship with(you, me, all of us on here), what makes you think that very pwBPD would respect you anymore or less then they already have? At the end of the inevitable discard, you will be disrespected regardless, whether you leave them or not. Just my opinion.

[Perfidy]

Yeah... I dunno... Since we're kinda speaking hypothetically here I would have to say that respect is probably not given any more or less based on the BPD. Most people don't really get the differance between respect and disrespect anyway. You don't have to show me respect. i dont care. However, you may not show me disrespect. I don't require respect in the least. If you walk past me and show me complete indifferance im good with that. I don't need to have my ass kissed. I don't need to have a lot of anything from other people. I WILL not accept disrespect. Except from BPD lovers. That being said... .Regarding the BPDexgf... .I am no contact with her until the day I die. Longer if possible.i do not care for either respect or disrespect from her. Her disrespect was truley over the top. She has attempted communication twice with me in the last couple months. No response from me. I am so through. No Facebook. Blocked numbers. Just finishing processing out the garbage... .Should be my old chipper self in no time... It will be a year on March21. My going no contact with her was not to gain respect from her... .It was all about gaining sanity for me. If I thought I were doing no contact for anything to do with her my integrity would be where my self esteem was a few months ago... .In the $hithole.

[Nicco]

She left me in september (first time) we stayed in touch for a month (pratically just me tryng to get her back in every way... .without results) then i disappeared for a month... .at the end of november she wrote me on fb,sms,tried to call me... .telling me she was "worried for me" ... .she wrote to all my family too looking for simpathy... .after a couple of days i just wrote her back an sms "I'm fine,take care of yourself" ... .she replied "thanks to writing me and sorry if i'm disturbing you,take care of yourself too"... .after 10 minutes another sms ":)o you hate me?" ... .didn't replied... .i'm back on fb but just thinking at my business... .didn't blocked her,she can see my activities... .just put "i like it" on what i post... .last time i lurked on her fb page (i stopped since a while,is useless and painful) she made a picture of a paper on a mirror with "I miss u" written on and she's sharing it on her fb cover... .but she didn't tried to contact me in any way... .for a very simple reason i think... .it's not for me probably,it's for the one she "triangulated" with... .never happened nothing between them (she's 25,he's 48 and he wasn't looking for that) anyway he lives here and in the while we becomed friends and she didn't knew... .we talked a lot... .to hook him she told him many  bull$hit$... .as soon as he discovered what kind of person she was and that she was tryng to play at the "guilty game" he went in strictly NC with her... .he doesn't read her messages too... .but still she try to contact him... .she tried on the 2th of november... .and yesterday after she saw me and him talking and sharing music on fb... .everytime she writes him he comes to tell me... .last night he told me that he got the last part of a message before delete it and she was telling him something like "now you and Nicco are frieds?strange... ." (probaly cause until september i hated him and she perfectly knew... .before discover how much she manipulated both) ... .we both know that NC is the best way... .she must be VERY disappointed to don't get nothing from us... .especially from him and discover is a friend of mine too now... .very disappointed... .in all this a part of me is lying in sadness thinking that she's not looking for my affection but for him,it's really painful and im having problems to accept it... .me that i was her "soulmate forever"... .bleah... .everything bring us back to her disorder,there's nothing to do... .me and my new friend know it well... .he's helping me in some ways... .however i know i would cry of happiness if she would try to contact me telling me that she wants me back... .probably will not happen... .but i have to be rational and strong... .which im not,absolutely not like him,but i have to find the way... .i desired so much that the lil "I miss u" paper was for me... .so much... .especially since she posted it after she tried to contact me... .but i understood it's not,on the contrary now i'm sure i was full of messages.at least i stopped lurking after that.completely.bah.

I know a part of me wish strongly to be "recycled"... .i don't want to look insesible with those who passed trough many recycles and i'm sorry... .i know it's wrong and unhealty and painful... .but i don't feel shame... .i love her and it's hard to don't listen my inner voice who wants another chance... .but its properly cause i wish it so strongly that i must stay far away from her... .this desire of mine is the symptom of my sickness and lack of self-respect and self-love.

And in all this,she's not respecting me since she doesn't respects my pain.

Someone said lack of empathy?

[Naddred369]

 My exBPDgf didnt respect me whilst we were together so why would she start doing it now?

I think the N/C and your unavailabillity may have them trying to start a push/pull cycle out of you when they feel down. My ex only really made an effort to contact me when I was starting dating again and I think she panicked a little or wanted to see if I would still jump when she asked me to.

Also, she had trashed 2 replacements by that point so her options must have been low!

No, theres no respect.

[woke up]

I read somewhere that people with BPD respect u more and have a stronger desire to want you back if u break up with them and stay away. My ex BPD gf always bragged about how guys always came back to her. I was guilty of that several times but I have stayed away from her since we broke up in October. I work with her and I still manage not to go near her. I thought she hated me cause she avoids me just as much but I recently spoke to her din and he said I am still the only person she values even more than her kids. He said she thinks I'm ignoring her so she's going the same back to me. This after she always accused me of pulling her back into the relationship. What do u think?

I think this is a question or a derivative of this question, such as, do they miss us, do they think about us, especially if they are currently obsessed with the replacement, is one that we all struggle with.  I think it has to do with the fact that we were discarded so suddenly and quickly, and being a rational human being, we want our ego validated somehow that they really do miss us, or think of us, or respect us for our NC boundary.  The reality though may be very different.  I recall my exGF talking about an ex in simple passing that he doesn't contact me anymore because he probably hates me, and then continuing on as if nothing unusual has happened.  I believe when they are in the honeymoon phase of being with the replacement, their entire focus is that person, maybe at some point later, they may think about us, once they come off the manic state with the replacement.  My exGF is pretty high function BPD, so she has honored my NC request thus far, it's been 2 months now, but then again, she is with the overlapping replacement, and likely very happy for now and not thinking about anything else but him. 

Either way, the only way to move forward is to learn that likely there will be no answer to this often asked question and live with the uncertainty, if not, we can drive ourselves crazy obsessing over it repeatedly.

[DownandOut]

I went N/C after Round 1 and attempts at recycling in between Round 1 and 2. When we finally got back together for Round 2, my uBPDexgf asked me why I never tried to reach out to her in the year or so of N/C. I told her that I have respect for myself and if she didn't want anything to do with me I wasn't going to chase her. That question, however, was an important insight into her mind. She did think about me, albeit probably when she was devaluing her current victim and wondered why I wasn't up her ass regardless of how I felt. The fact that she would inquire about that shows her mental state. I think she does struggle with being ignored or forgotten about. It's probably not unique to me, but to all her victims. I do believe I'm the only one who really knows about her disorder so they may be easier to reengage than I am and, therefore, I might be on her mind when it's not preoccupied (or maybe that's my narcissism talking).

[santa]

At the end of the day, the bottom line is that it really doesn't matter if they respect you or not. It may help temporarily or in certain incidents, but overall, they can flip their feelings on you in about 2 seconds based on their emotions and it won't make any difference if they respect you or not. They'll make up reasons not to respect you just to make themselves feel better about it and then swear it happened.

[Waifed]

As Shadow said they are human beings.  I think we oversimplify their existence sometimes.  I believe that they have partners that they have desired (think they love) and maybe it last a lifetime for them.  Some of us are rebounds between longer term relationships. Others of us are the ones that they have spent a larger amount of time in their life with.  I believe that a Borderline can have someone in their life that they long to be with but ultimately know it won't be everlasting.  The may even choose to leave this person alone because they know they will just hurt them. 

[Turkish]

As Shadow said they are human beings.  I think we oversimplify their existence sometimes.  Others of us are the ones that they have spent a larger amount of time in their life with.  I believe that a Borderline can have someone in their life that they long to be with but ultimately know it won't be everlasting.  The may even choose to leave this person alone because they know they will just hurt them. 

That's mine. I'm her longest by 3x. The most mature r/s she'll ever have... .unless she finds some guy to marry who already has kids, or they adopt. But given her pathological fear of marriage, not likely (but you never know). She knows on some level she hurt me. She's played out the script in her head that it would end someday ("we had a good 6 year run.". Her college age brother even told her, after she told them what had happened, that "I knew it was coming." She never asked him to elaborate on that. But if basically a kid (a wise one) who grew up with her could see this coming, not even understanding what is really going on, then it is an unwinnable situation.

She wants something long term and stable, but "knows" that she isn't "ready" for it (meaning us, hell of a time to decide that after 2 kids), as she told me. She also knows she is "sick" and as I found something she wrote, "why do I think everyone is unfaithful, why, WHY?" When it turned out she was the one. During her periodic depressions, she knew they hurt me. Even admitted one time how unlucky I was to be with a depressed woman, after growing up with my depressed mother.

Some know all of this, but the disorder wins out in the end. Very sad. Very wrong. I actually helped "fix" things between her and her family two years ago when her depression was getting bad, coaxed her to "come out" to them about it, so to speak. It did help. But I get no credit for that. She just wants the shallow teen romance. It's what she can handle safely. My poor, lost BPD daughter :^(

[Pretty Woman]

Glenn,

  What an awesome experiment!

[Waifed]

As Shadow said they are human beings.  I think we oversimplify their existence sometimes.  Others of us are the ones that they have spent a larger amount of time in their life with.  I believe that a Borderline can have someone in their life that they long to be with but ultimately know it won't be everlasting.  The may even choose to leave this person alone because they know they will just hurt them. 

That's mine. I'm her longest by 3x. The most mature r/s she'll ever have... .unless she finds some guy to marry who already has kids, or they adopt. But given her pathological fear of marriage, not likely (but you never know). She knows on some level she hurt me. She's played out the script in her head that it would end someday ("we had a good 6 year run.". Her college age brother even told her, after she told them what had happened, that "I knew it was coming." She never asked him to elaborate on that. But if basically a kid (a wise one) who grew up with her could see this coming, not even understanding what is really going on, then it is an unwinnable situation.

She wants something long term and stable, but "knows" that she isn't "ready" for it (meaning us, hell of a time to decide that after 2 kids), as she told me. She also knows she is "sick" and as I found something she wrote, "why do I think everyone is unfaithful, why, WHY?" When it turned out she was the one. During her periodic depressions, she knew they hurt me. Even admitted one time how unlucky I was to be with a depressed woman, after growing up with my depressed mother.

Some know all of this, but the disorder wins out in the end. Very sad. Very wrong. I actually helped "fix" things between her and her family two years ago when her depression was getting bad, coaxed her to "come out" to them about it, so to speak. It did help. But I get no credit for that. She just wants the shallow teen romance. It's what she can handle safely. My poor, lost BPD daughter :^(

Turkish

She knows that she screwed up but unfortunately isn't capable of fixing it.  I work with a man who was married for years to a woman who was diagnosed as BPD at the end of their marriage.  They have grown up children together.  She cheated, raged, etc. all through the course of their marriage.  It has been almost 10 years since he left her and she still calls begging him to take her back, rages, destroys his personal property, etc.  Is she crazy?  Probably, but she still has that bond with him that will never die.  I don't know if it is love but it is a definite connection that she can not give up. 

I don't have that bond with my ex but I think in your case their is a very high likelihood that she will always look for comfort from you.  You will have to be the one to set the boundaries in you post relationship.

[Nicco]

As Shadow said they are human beings.  I think we oversimplify their existence sometimes.  I believe that they have partners that they have desired (think they love) and maybe it last a lifetime for them.  Some of us are rebounds between longer term relationships. Others of us are the ones that they have spent a larger amount of time in their life with.  I believe that a Borderline can have someone in their life that they long to be with but ultimately know it won't be everlasting.  The may even choose to leave this person alone because they know they will just hurt them.  

That's another point.

Even inside a healty relationship is pretty hard to NEVER hurt the other... .but a healty person is able to understand why and makes a deal with... .the imagine of the other is not totally destroyed by that.

Someone who doesn't know how to menage a pwBPD will,without any doubt,hurts that person soon or late... .with or without the will to do it... .and i'm sure that even for someone who knows this illness is pretty impossible to don't make a mistake soon or late.

Me i know that i hurted her sometimes... .probably deeply too,especially once... .at the time i knew pratically nothing about BPD... .god only knows how much i blame myself everyday for what i've done  ... .i know it's not completely my fault,that the situation was bringing me to insanity and heavy stress load... .but guilty feelings remains.poor sweet her.uffffffff... .

[Turkish]

As Shadow said they are human beings.  I think we oversimplify their existence sometimes.  Others of us are the ones that they have spent a larger amount of time in their life with.  I believe that a Borderline can have someone in their life that they long to be with but ultimately know it won't be everlasting.  The may even choose to leave this person alone because they know they will just hurt them. 

That's mine. I'm her longest by 3x. The most mature r/s she'll ever have... .unless she finds some guy to marry who already has kids, or they adopt. But given her pathological fear of marriage, not likely (but you never know). She knows on some level she hurt me. She's played out the script in her head that it would end someday ("we had a good 6 year run.". Her college age brother even told her, after she told them what had happened, that "I knew it was coming." She never asked him to elaborate on that. But if basically a kid (a wise one) who grew up with her could see this coming, not even understanding what is really going on, then it is an unwinnable situation.

She wants something long term and stable, but "knows" that she isn't "ready" for it (meaning us, hell of a time to decide that after 2 kids), as she told me. She also knows she is "sick" and as I found something she wrote, "why do I think everyone is unfaithful, why, WHY?" When it turned out she was the one. During her periodic depressions, she knew they hurt me. Even admitted one time how unlucky I was to be with a depressed woman, after growing up with my depressed mother.

Some know all of this, but the disorder wins out in the end. Very sad. Very wrong. I actually helped "fix" things between her and her family two years ago when her depression was getting bad, coaxed her to "come out" to them about it, so to speak. It did help. But I get no credit for that. She just wants the shallow teen romance. It's what she can handle safely. My poor, lost BPD daughter :^(

Turkish

She knows that she screwed up but unfortunately isn't capable of fixing it. 

Yep. And she knows this. She wrote, "I wish I knew how to fix it with Turkish... ."

I work with a man who was married for years to a woman who was diagnosed as BPD at the end of their marriage.  They have grown up children together.  She cheated, raged, etc. all through the course of their marriage.  It has been almost 10 years since he left her and she still calls begging him to take her back, rages, destroys his personal property, etc.  Is she crazy?

Mine thinks she is. I found her searching for terms (browser history) trying to understand herself. She even looked up "crazy." That's crazy!

I don't have that bond with my ex but I think in your case their is a very high likelihood that she will always look for comfort from you.  You will have to be the one to set the boundaries in you post relationship.

Yes to that, too. And it elicits some compassion in me... .only due to the kids. But I already have my NC spiel ready for the exit speech. I'll try not to be cruel, but it will probably come out like that. After a few years, it may even resemble some form of friendship. It did in the case of my friend with his likely BPD ex wife, where ten years into her marriage (after she settled down with her affairs... .and he got it way worse than I did, her verbal abuse of him was worse than mine as well), he talked her out of divorcing her husband, even after having two additional kids with him.

[Pretty Woman]

Nicco,

   I think it is impossible NOT to hurt them.

It is all about them not YOU or US.

Even once I learned about BPD all that did was make me aware that her patterns were her "norm" and a norm of the disorder.

Normal relationships there are give and take. You can rationalize with your partner. In this it is impossible. No matter what you do.

My ex partner is undiagnosed. Still... .every relationship has been rocky. She has cheated and recycled partners for years. She is always in contact with an ex. Always. Even if they are attached. She puts out feelers and tells them all about her current relationship... .including badmouthing her current to evoke sympathy.

My friend at work who I've been isolated from for a year because of this relationship made a really great point the other day.

My ex said she dumped me because I wasn't present in our relationship. Granted, I plan like crazy (I love planning events and am social). Still, she never expressed this was an issue.

Mind you she says this after she has already secured my replacement.

They project blame on to you. I could have been in a bad car accident and she would have dumped me because I was "held up and not available" (ha ha). But seriously... .

she would have dumped me over a papercut.

You cannot rationalize with the irrational. Don't beat yourself up... .

she already has.   Enough of that!

[damage control]

This doesn't in any way qualify in the same ballpark as the experiment spoken of above but just this last Saturday, I finally (FINALLY) set a boundary of my ex (who I am still living in a sharehouse with) saying I no longer wanted contact and could we please just avoid each other as much as possible.

He initially replied giving excuses for his behaviour but the past 2 days he has been in the kitchen at the exact time I get home (this rarely ever happened before) and has come outside to try and engage conversation (he has done this in the past, but he is up later than usual, doesn't seem to be on the internet as much as usual) ... .I could be way off, but I think I have triggered something ... .and I think his ego is involved - he is pushing that boundary over and over rather than giving me the space I requested.

He also once said to me that me being over the other side of country (LD relationship) made me 'interesting' than women who were close-by ... .yeah, I should have paid much more attention to that one.

[Turkish]

My ex partner is undiagnosed. Still... .every relationship has been rocky. She has cheated and recycled partners for years. She is always in contact with an ex. Always. Even if they are attached. She puts out feelers and tells them all about her current relationship... .including badmouthing her current to evoke sympathy.

That's how my "waif" engaged her current paramour. I've been with her six years. When we started having trouble in the first year (me acting odd to her, due to me trying to figure out what was wrong with her, and concluding that she must have some kind of PD), she reached out to her X from two years previous, who was the "love of her life" who left, cheated, recycled briefly, and then left her again (great guy!). She was in email and text mode to him to try to understand what was going on with her and me. I considered that her first act of "cheating." The thing was, she told me most of what she was talking to him about, even saying that he saw my myspace profile and that he was much better looking (narcissist) than I was, to get her goat, I guess. Would that I had put down strong boundaries there.

I know how she/a BPD attaches to people. I know that even if we had tried to make this work, she would never completely let go her current paramour, wanting to keep him as a "friend." I'm not so naive as I was, and this would be completely unacceptable. So I had no problem in the end telling her we were done, when I tried to hard throughout most of September to fix things. You can't fix a black hole. It is a force of nature, and just "is." Let it be and stay as far away from it as you can.

[Conundrum]

In my opinion, whether they temporarily respect you is a meaningless relational benchmark, because underlying feelings of worthlessness are a defining characteristic of the disorder. When the childhood trauma occurred, they naturally turned on themselves (i.e."my mother would not have left me if I wasn't bad", like a wild animal attempting to chew off its own leg after being caught in a trap. 

When that sense of (often) maternal security was viscerally ripped away from them, the trauma permanently altered their personalities onto disordered trajectories. They subconsciously chewed off the parts of them that still required nurturing. Feelings of worthlessness are often masked or numbed. They can take many shapes-- arrogance, projection or substance abuse.  Respect will not alter their acting out. That's their struggle and journey to own--not ours. 

[Turkish]

In my opinion, whether they temporarily respect you is a meaningless relational benchmark, because underlying feelings of worthlessness are a defining characteristic of the disorder. When the childhood trauma occurred, they naturally turned on themselves (i.e."my mother would not have left me if I wasn't bad", like a wild animal attempting to chew off its own leg after being caught in a trap. 

I told mine this, when she was in a moment of crying and weak after her paramour called her phone while we were having dinner with the kids. That her cheating had nothing to do with me, ultimately. And that her father cheating on her mother had nothing to do with her mother. And that ultimately, her father abandoning her and not connecting to her emotionally had nothing to do with her, that there was nothing wrong with her that caused him to do that. It was all him! At this point, she at least admitted that she was "sick" [mentally]. Made no difference. On to running and medicating with the shallow r/s... .the BPD beast is like a Terminator (from the movies). Terminators, however, can be stopped... .

[rcp]

Push them away, they will want you like no other.

Chase after them, they will disappear.

Before I knew anything about BPD, I broke up, or thought I did. We agreed to meet and talk terms. Or I thought we had. Instead, we went out for drinks, she deflected all relationship talk, and we spent the night together. The next morning, same incredibly hurtful distancing. But I couldn't let go and allowed myself to get drawn back in. After a great weekend together, she exploded on me, all out of context. I broke up again a couple of weeks later, and her response was so cavalier given how close I thought we had become. That was more than 2 months ago. I'm yet to see her come running back to me, although I'm pretty sure she's with someone new, whom she had started dating before we finished. They're such cold, nasty, heartless, self-absorbed jerks. I'd love her to approach me just so I can turn her away and regain my dignity. That's terrible, I know. But it's how I feel.

[ScotisGone74]

To answer the original question of the poster... .Honestly WHO cares what they respect at this point, they obviously don't respect you, thats really all that matters.   Wishful thinking won't get you anywhere with these people.  Focus on what YOU respect at this point.  When I do that it seems more helpful and productive to me.